Watts per Channel Question - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
JackcaJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quick question:

Let's say I have a 5.1 receiver (powered sub) with 500 total watts and therefore 100 watts per channel.

If I only use two speakers (front right and left), does that mean that 250 watts will now be allocated per channel? Or still 100 watts per channel?

Thanks in advance,
Jack
JackcaJ is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 01:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CDLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dark Side of the Moon-Right Side of the Bay, MD
Posts: 8,963
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackcaJ View Post

Quick question:

Let's say I have a 5.1 receiver (powered sub) with 500 total watts and therefore 100 watts per channel.

If I only use two speakers (front right and left), does that mean that 250 watts will now be allocated per channel? Or still 100 watts per channel?

Thanks in advance,
Jack

Short answer; just 100wpc.

CD

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato
CDLehner is online now  
post #3 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 01:50 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,537
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackcaJ View Post

Quick question:

Let's say I have a 5.1 receiver (powered sub) with 500 total watts and therefore 100 watts per channel.

If I only use two speakers (front right and left), does that mean that 250 watts will now be allocated per channel? Or still 100 watts per channel?

Thanks in advance,
Jack

The short answer is a good one. To eleborate, it depends on the receiver.

The FTC rules specify that all associated channels of a receiver be driven when testing. But all associated channels is not defined. So it could be two, for example.

When I have looked at bench tests, it's normal for receiver's to have a two channel power rating which matches their specs. An underrated one might put out a bit more.

So...100 watts is probably about right. Maybe a bit more.

Let's say though, you had a Harmon Kardon that was rated all channels driven. It might do better into two channels than I suggest above (this is speculation on my part). It's still limited by the supply voltage provided to the amplifier. That sets the upper limit, even though the power supply considered by itself might suggest more power.

Also note that transistors have very real limits. Limiter circuits built into receivers will only allow so much current to flow. So that's another potential limit.

"But this one goes up to 11"
MichaelJHuman is offline  
post #4 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
JackcaJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks both of you for the answers.

Also -- are either of you familiar with the BIC America RtR-1530s? (http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.p...e=15&spkrID=63)

They look like they can produce some serious power and bass, which is what I really want, and I can find them online for pretty cheap.

Is there a specific receiver you could recommend to power these? I'm trying to spend $200-250 (or less, of course) and looking for >100 watts/channel -- any ideas?
JackcaJ is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 03:37 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,537
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Besides being very ugly, those speakers look easy to drive. 8 ohms, with a 90 dB sensitivity.

I would say many receivers could drive them to pretty good levels.

One possibility for power on a budget is used. Another is close out deals.

If you can up your budget a bit to $400, you can look at receivers like the Yamaha RX-V765, which have a decent power supply.

Or, you can get some speaker to line level converters for your current receiver (which I assume lacks pre outs,) and get the Behringer A500 amp for less than $200. It should put out at least 150 watt / channel into 8 ohms, if memory serves.

"But this one goes up to 11"
MichaelJHuman is offline  
post #6 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 03:38 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,537
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 74
MichaelJHuman is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
JackcaJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well the problem is right now I don't have a receiver. I want my speakers to be mainly used for music, and since I could care less about what they look like -- the RtR-1530s seem like a pretty good option.

What do you think it would sound like if I bought a pretty low-end home 5.1 theater system around $300 or so (like a Sony or Samsung) with ratings like 166 watt/channel at 3 ohm and connected 2 the two RtR-1530s to the right and left? Or would it make a huge difference to spend a similar amount of money on just the receiver?
JackcaJ is offline  
post #8 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 05:42 PM
 
diamonddelts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,055
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackcaJ View Post

Well the problem is right now I don't have a receiver. I want my speakers to be mainly used for music, and since I could care less about what they look like -- the RtR-1530s seem like a pretty good option.

What do you think it would sound like if I bought a pretty low-end home 5.1 theater system around $300 or so (like a Sony or Samsung) with ratings like 166 watt/channel at 3 ohm and connected 2 the two RtR-1530s to the right and left? Or would it make a huge difference to spend a similar amount of money on just the receiver?

I've owned 5 pairs of the Bic RTR-1530's and can firmly say they were excellent speakers for the money. They give out deep, tight bass for both music and HT. I can also firmly say you will not get the full potential of these speakers with some cheap, rinky-dink receiver. If you are only using two channel stereo you would be better off getting a cheap pro amp for these. If you are going to be using them in a surround setup then you will need at least an older midrange receiver such as the Onkyo TX-SR 805 to get them going right.

Also you should know that their is a newer model of these speakers on the way with horn tweeters and rated down to 30hz instead of 33hz.

http://www.amazon.com/BIC-RTR-EV15-E...0277711&sr=8-1
diamonddelts is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 05:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
M Code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Joshua Tree, CA
Posts: 9,784
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackcaJ View Post

Quick question:

Let's say I have a 5.1 receiver (powered sub) with 500 total watts and therefore 100 watts per channel.

If I only use two speakers (front right and left), does that mean that 250 watts will now be allocated per channel? Or still 100 watts per channel?

Thanks in advance,
Jack

The AVR's power supply is the crucial section, as it has limits for voltage and current capability. Think about it much like a battery and light bulbs..
If one connects 2 light bulbs (or loudspeakers) to a battery, each light bulb gets 50% of the battery's capacity. If one connects 5 light bulbs (or loudspeakers) to the same battery, then each light bulb will get 20% of the battery's capacity. And their briteness will be less as there is less voltage/current available for each..

The capability of an AVR's power supply is directly related to cost, if the AVR sells for $499 or less then it has no reserve.. Also the better quality AVR brands typically have more reserve capacity as well..

Just my $0.00..
M Code is offline  
post #10 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 06:24 PM
Member
 
wilmer007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 126
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm not 100% certain about this but it all depends on the specific receiver. Like for example i have a NR807 which produces 135 watts per channel. however that is rated at 2 channels driven. when it's 5.1 the bench tests 105.5 watts per channel with a 0.1% distortion and 122 watts per channel with a 1% distortion. so it all depends on the receiver.
wilmer007 is offline  
post #11 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
JackcaJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks everyone for the responses.

I think the amp option might be a great idea, I just wish I had the potential to go surround sound and add a sub with it...what kind of cables would I need to hook up to iPod, TV, etc. -- it seems like most amps have different inputs.

Or...what about something a little better, like the Onkyo HT-S5300 system, and then replacing the 2 fronts with the RtR-1530s?

The new model of the 1530s does look pretty sweet, but I just don't think I have the patience to wait haha.
JackcaJ is offline  
post #12 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 06:36 PM
Member
 
wilmer007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 126
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackcaJ View Post

Thanks everyone for the responses.

I think the amp option might be a great idea, I just wish I had the potential to go surround sound and add a sub with it...what kind of cables would I need to hook up to iPod, TV, etc. -- it seems like most amps have different inputs.

Or...what about something a little better, like the Onkyo HT-S5300 system, and then replacing the 2 fronts with the RtR-1530s?

The new model of the 1530s does look pretty sweet, but I just don't think I have the patience to wait haha.

i once looked at the S-5300 however everyone on discussions and forums told me not to get HTiB. The closest thing you can get to that is way better than the S5300 is the Denon DHT591BA which comes with a AVR591 and Boston Acoustics Speakers at $600. Note is this a bundle not a HTiB. There is a huge difference and it's a better purchase than the S-5300. The difference is that a bundle is a good cost saving alternative vs a ripoff you will receive with HTiB.

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-DHT-591B...0280905&sr=8-1
wilmer007 is offline  
post #13 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 07:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Audiodork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Siesta Key, Florida
Posts: 2,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

I've owned 5 pairs of the Bic RTR-1530's and can firmly say they were excellent speakers for the money. They give out deep, tight bass for both music and HT. I can also firmly say you will not get the full potential of these speakers with some cheap, rinky-dink receiver. If you are only using two channel stereo you would be better off getting a cheap pro amp for these. If you are going to be using them in a surround setup then you will need at least an older midrange receiver such as the Onkyo TX-SR 805 to get them going right.

Also you should know that their is a newer model of these speakers on the way with horn tweeters and rated down to 30hz instead of 33hz.

http://www.amazon.com/BIC-RTR-EV15-E...0277711&sr=8-1

Hello,
The TX-SR805 really offered an Amplifier Section as powerful as many Flagship AVR's
:http://www.hometheatermag.com/receiv...nk/index5.html
As it shared the identical Amplifier Section with the TX-SR875, it really was a special AVR. I just wish the newer 800 Series continued with this level of power.

I am not sure of if it is because of the 9 Channel Amplifier built into the 007 Series or more intrusive Current Limiting/Protection, but even the TX-NR5007 output under 100 Watts when Bench Tested into 5 and 7 Channels. (68 Watts)
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/con...ver-test-bench
Given the the number is identical into 5 and 7 Channels, it seems like it is a safety measure perhaps.
Cheers,
AD

Radio Shack SPL Meter Owner
Audiodork is offline  
post #14 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 08:12 PM
 
diamonddelts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,055
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

Hello,The TX-SR805 really offered an Amplifier Section as powerful as many Flagship AVR's:http://www.hometheatermag.com/receiv...nk/index5.htmlAs it shared the identical Amplifier Section with the TX-SR875, it really was a special AVR.* I just wish the newer 800 Series continued with this level of power.* I am not sure of if it is because of the 9 Channel Amplifier built into the 007 Series or more intrusive Current Limiting/Protection, but even the TX-NR5007 output under 100 Watts when Bench Tested into 5 and 7 Channels. (68 Watts)http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/con...ver-test-benchGiven the the number is identical into 5 and 7 Channels, it seems like it is a safety measure perhaps.Cheers,AD

Yeah, I'm familiar with the design and history of the 805 being that I once owned one. I was speaking of it as mid level in terms of price not it's actual performance which I know matched most flagship receivers of the time.

However I can never get over how pathetic the amps are in the seven series. It's disgusting that the flagship can only output a putrid 68 watts a channel with all channels driven.. Makes me want to barf just thinking about it. Hence why I am never, ever going back to receivers to power any of my speakers.
diamonddelts is offline  
post #15 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 08:15 PM
 
diamonddelts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,055
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackcaJ View Post

Thanks everyone for the responses.

I think the amp option might be a great idea, I just wish I had the potential to go surround sound and add a sub with it...what kind of cables would I need to hook up to iPod, TV, etc. -- it seems like most amps have different inputs.

Or...what about something a little better, like the Onkyo HT-S5300 system, and then replacing the 2 fronts with the RtR-1530s?

The new model of the 1530s does look pretty sweet, but I just don't think I have the patience to wait haha.

I wouldn't do that. When I purchased my first pair of 1530's I had a onkyo S-5100 HTIB system. The speakers would repeatedly cause the receiver to go into protection mode. Don't try to skimp on powering your speakers with weak low dollar receiver's onboard amp. You end up having to pay more later.
diamonddelts is offline  
post #16 of 16 Old 07-27-2010, 08:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Audiodork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Siesta Key, Florida
Posts: 2,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Hello,
I use a TX-SR875 strictly as an SSP as it was about impossible to find DTC-9.8's or PR-SC885's when they first hit the market and grew impatient. I always intended to sell the 875 and pick up one of the SSP's, but the 875 really has made for a great SSP.

If I was not using Martin Logan Electrostats (Vantage, Stage, Vista, Depth), I would have no reservations using the Amplifiers in the 875. However, these Speakers really need outboard Amplifiers to sound their best and they dip below 1 Ohm in parts of the Frequency Range and that would shutdown the 875 and probably any AVR.
Cheers,
AD

Radio Shack SPL Meter Owner
Audiodork is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off