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post #271 of 9656 Old 09-28-2010, 07:13 PM
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Besides obvious differences like having power amps vs. XLR balanced outputs, do we know of any functional differences between the preamp section of the SR7005 (receiver) and the AV7005 pre-pro?

Sometimes makers give more control over the fine tuning of the Audessy circuitry, for example, in the pre-pro over the receiver version, not that I know that to be the case here. Just asking.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #272 of 9656 Old 09-29-2010, 10:11 AM
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^^^

A very good question that I wish we had answers to but at this point in time, I am not sure anyone but a small circle of folks that spoke to the Marantz insiders at CEDIA can tell us. I am shocked we have not had more information come to light in the last week...
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post #273 of 9656 Old 09-29-2010, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

Not sure if you understood me correctly, but to each his own

I did
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post #274 of 9656 Old 09-29-2010, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Besides obvious differences like having power amps vs. XLR balanced outputs, do we know of any functional differences between the preamp section of the SR7005 (receiver) and the AV7005 pre-pro?

Sometimes makers give more control over the fine tuning of the Audessy circuitry, for example, in the pre-pro over the receiver version, not that I know that to be the case here. Just asking.

I agree this is a very good question. I tend to think the two are indentical. My question would be what differences (DACs and analog stage) are there between the comparable Marantz and Denon units. The Marantz AVR/prepros were always thought to have better SQ especially with music. So I wonder with Marantz and Denon being from the same ownership group if they share many of the same internal components.

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post #275 of 9656 Old 09-29-2010, 01:47 PM
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It seems like the x005 line are Denon clones with different firmwares and face plates. Inside SR7005 looks just like 3311ci. Even the manuals are nearly identical. It seems like x003/x004 series were different from Denons of that era.

So chances are Marantz's "better" (different?) SQ over Denon is a thing of the past.
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post #276 of 9656 Old 09-29-2010, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post

It seems like the x005 line are Denon clones with different firmwares and face plates. Inside SR7005 looks just like 3311ci. Even the manuals are nearly identical. It seems like x003/x004 series were different from Denons of that era.

So chances are Marantz's "better" (different?) SQ over Denon is a thing of the past.

Thats what I'm wondering as well. Would buying the the 3311 be a better deal over buying the SR7005 or the AV7005? For myself I would go for the 4311 as I really would like Audyssey MultXT32 and a 7.1 analog input.

Bill

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post #277 of 9656 Old 09-29-2010, 02:04 PM
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Heh. I ordered 4311ci. I already preordered SR7005 but I cancelled my order. Seems no brainer. 9.1, XT32, DSD streaming and other features for less money (getting my 4311ci for $1500).
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post #278 of 9656 Old 09-29-2010, 02:49 PM
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For me the AV7005's 4 component inputs and 2 (discrete) component outputs is key, so other brands like Denon that are "just as good/cheaper" wont cut it.

I have all the outboard power amps I need, none with XLR inputs (nor do I plan on buying any) but I wonder if the receiver version is just $100 more, maybe even less considering how many more places will be carrying it, should I get it instead?

Even if they were exactly the same price I'm still in a quandary as to what to buy!

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #279 of 9656 Old 09-29-2010, 04:56 PM
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Ok I found one difference between the SR7005 and the AV7005 (besides the amps vs. XLR outputs). The rear apron (I forget what we call that in American )
has 11.2 channels of unbalanced, RCA pre-outs whereas the SR7005 has only 7.2. [heights and wides, L & R each, are only on the pre-pro, not the receiver]

OOPs, I see now cmryan821 pointed this out earlier.

P.S. By ".2" I mean I see there are two subwoofer outs on both. I would think they are electrically the same, nothing you couldn't pretty much replicate by simply slapping on an RCA "Y cord" on a single output, but then again they may be discrete, proving either:

A) The designers are psychoacoustically inept.

B) In bed with subwoofer manufacturers who think it will help double their sales (at least with some customers)

or

C) They are bowing to market pressure, much like why many speaker manufacturers uses bi-wire capable binding posts, even though they know full well they're utterly useless. [Note I said bi-wiring is completely useless, not bi-amping, which may have a teeny tiny benefit in some situations.]

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #280 of 9656 Old 09-29-2010, 06:39 PM
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Dual subwoofer outputs are a boon to those of us with two subs, provided they are procesed (Audyssey, EQ, etc.) independently. If it's just a Y inside the AVR instead of me having to use my own, well, not so much...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #281 of 9656 Old 09-29-2010, 07:16 PM
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That all depends on placement Don... if your subs are on the front or rear wall equally spaced - single source EQ should work just fine and offer no ill effects...

Even if you have multiple subs running off the same signal - you can EQ each individually for integration (though time consuming) you can then run audyssey and have fantastic results.... I do this with my 4 subs - behringer dcx 2496 and then run ARC on my D2v and it works awesome... just need to be strategic with this
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post #282 of 9656 Old 09-29-2010, 08:43 PM
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I'm not dissing multiple subs; they can be great. But unfortunately, as I suspected, it's nothing more than an internal Y cord on the AV7005. No independent on/off, volume, delay, EQ, or any or that jazz, (which would be nifty). Keep in mind there are also two XLR sub outs for a total of four sub outs, however they are all playing exactly the same thing. This from the User Manual, p51, posted earlier in the thread, also here:

"For connecting four subwoofers

Four subwoofers can be connected to this unit.
The same signal is output from each subwoofer terminal."


For Audyssey to work right they also comment that each sub's independent volume knob, on the powered sub itself, that is, be set such that it registers exactly 75 dB from the AV7005's internal test tone when driven alone. This makes sense and I would also think the distance to the mic should be equal so the singular delay time the microprocessor picks will be correct for when both subs are running simultaneously.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #283 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 05:25 AM
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Any of you keeping an eye on the SR7005 thread? Not exactly a home run out of the starting blocks for the receiver version of this..
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post #284 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minge View Post

Any of you keeping an eye on the SR7005 thread? Not exactly a home run out of the starting blocks for the receiver version of this..

There is only one guy who has said anything, and it appears the problem is with him and his setup vice the receiver itself.
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post #285 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

That all depends on placement Don... if your subs are on the front or rear wall equally spaced - single source EQ should work just fine and offer no ill effects...

Even if you have multiple subs running off the same signal - you can EQ each individually for integration (though time consuming) you can then run audyssey and have fantastic results.... I do this with my 4 subs - behringer dcx 2496 and then run ARC on my D2v and it works awesome... just need to be strategic with this

Thanks for clarifying, Warpdrv... For my special situation it's a non-issue (my subs are part of the mains, not using the sub outputs, for reasons explained elsewhere), but for those with subs in different positions it can be a hassle. You have provided one solution, however, thanks. - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #286 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfugh View Post

There is only one guy who has said anything, and it appears the problem is with him and his setup vice the receiver itself.

I just read the post from this owner over at the SR7005 thread. It seems he is using a Marantz integrated amp to run his R&L speakers. When he raises the volume of the SR7005 the volume also raises the volume of the integrated amp as well. I would say that is a system integration issue if I ever saw one and not an issue with the SR7005.

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post #287 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 07:27 AM
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If he doesn't need the integrated amp's volume control (or anything else if it's just a PA now) then a piece of black electrical tape will take care of that little issue.

I have Denon, Sony, and Pioneer (plus one old Yamaha) AVRs in the house. I do not know about the old Yammie, but the other three allow me to change to a different "channel" so the remote only activates the component it's supposed to. Does Marantz have something similar?

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #288 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minge View Post

Any of you keeping an eye on the SR7005 thread? Not exactly a home run out of the starting blocks for the receiver version of this..

The latest guy to have one and post an opinion thinks highly of his unit.

There's always going to be some people that don't like something, and there's always going to be the defenders. At this point, it's too early to tell. I'll wait and see what the general consensus is after a lot more than just three people own the unit.
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post #289 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 07:47 AM
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^^^

I did just see this post that we have a happy camper so far. I am just paranoid.
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post #290 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 10:27 AM
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One gold star goes to the first person to post a link to a photo, or better yet a video, of what the momentary volume display and input selection on screen graphics overlay looks like (over a backing image) and for how long they stay superimposed over the main image.

I plan on putting my pre-pro (or receiver if I go that route) in a closet so I'll have no front display to look at, so the GUI current status overlay (volume and input) and its limitations, if any, are key to me.

I even have a dedicated thread for this topic, should anyone care.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #291 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

If he doesn't need the integrated amp's volume control (or anything else if it's just a PA now) then a piece of black electrical tape will take care of that little issue.

Don,

Good suggestion. I posted the same suggestion in the SR7005 thread.

Bill

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post #292 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 11:34 AM
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Eh, I'd say "great minds etc." but mine, not so great... - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #293 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post

It seems like the x005 line are Denon clones with different firmwares and face plates. Inside SR7005 looks just like 3311ci. Even the manuals are nearly identical. It seems like x003/x004 series were different from Denons of that era.

So chances are Marantz's "better" (different?) SQ over Denon is a thing of the past.

Until you can prove via pictures of the inside of both units side by side, you are just whistling dixie..
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post #294 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by neekos View Post

Until you can prove via pictures of the inside of both units side by side, you are just whistling dixie..

I know, some people are incapable of finding stuff online



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post #295 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 04:48 PM
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^ First is Marantz, second is Denon. Both from crutchfield.com page.
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post #296 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 05:11 PM
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The fact that the owners manuals are nearly identical is enough proof for me.

Denon AVR3311ci user manual

Marantz SR7005 user manual


There are a few subtle differences such as the Denon having a couple of s-video jacks on the back whereas the Marantz has none but sports two extra component jacks and a secondary component out, however I find it hard to believe they differ in substantial performance ways.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #297 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post

I know, some people are incapable of finding stuff online




I guess Dixie is done...

PS. Hey Newbie...relax and you might last a while on this forum...
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post #298 of 9656 Old 09-30-2010, 08:05 PM
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The Marantz will sound 5% better because it has copper chassis screws. :-)
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post #299 of 9656 Old 10-01-2010, 12:21 AM
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Just reading the discussion from a couple of days ago. Calibrating subs individually is not as cut and dry a process as it is for your other speakers. For automated systems such as Audyssey it's generally a better decision to leave them combined. In fact for most manual calibrations even it's better to leave them combined as well. Low frequencies operate much differently in a room than mids and highs. I'm not an expert on this, but I have spoken at depth with some solid experts on just this topic.
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post #300 of 9656 Old 10-01-2010, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Thanks for clarifying, Warpdrv... For my special situation it's a non-issue (my subs are part of the mains, not using the sub outputs, for reasons explained elsewhere), but for those with subs in different positions it can be a hassle. You have provided one solution, however, thanks. - Don

I have a discussion about LFE going on in a sub building thread, what do you do about LFE?

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