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post #721 of 9656 Old 10-30-2010, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

Kal, when can we expect a pro review of this beauty?

I am expecting delivery soon but, due to the normal procedures and time for editing/publishing, one should not expect to see a review from me until the Spring of 2011.

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post #722 of 9656 Old 10-30-2010, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omnikurt View Post

So far my only disappointment has been with the XLR outputs. The Marantz unit uses the "European" wiring standard, which meant my cables had to be re-wired. Fortunately the Neutrix connectors come apart pretty easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cattledog View Post

Can you elaborate? Are you saying that if I bought XLR cables say from Monoprice that they will need to be rewired??

Balanced XLR connectors have three pins. The AES standard is pin 1 ground, pin 2 "hot" (+), and pin 3 "cold" (-). Some manufacturers deviate from this standard, reversing pin 2 "cold" (-) and pin 3 "hot" (+). For some odd reason, Marantz has frequently followed the latter configuration -- the "European" standard.

As Kal pointed out, when connected to a power amp that follows AES convention, the "European" configuration simply inverts absolute polarity. Assuming all loudspeaker transducers are wired in positive polarity (and oft some are not, due to higher order crossover design), then compression becomes rarefaction & vice versa (i.e. when the signal is positive, transducers deflect inward instead of outward & vice versa).

Some are reportedly sensitive to absolute polarity. Most are not. Additionally, polarity may get flipped multiple times through the recording & reproduction chain. So, who is to say which is the "correct" absolute polarity? But, if you are concerned about it, do not rewire your XLR connectors. Rather, just reverse the leads at each of your speakers and flip the polarity switch on your sub.

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post #723 of 9656 Old 10-30-2010, 04:46 PM
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The rear panel shot shows the standard XLR configuration pin 1 ground, pin 2 "hot" (+), and pin 3 "cold" (-).
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post #724 of 9656 Old 10-30-2010, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfugh View Post

The rear panel shot shows the standard XLR configuration pin 1 ground, pin 2 "hot" (+), and pin 3 "cold" (-).

Marantz seems somewhat confused. Here is a snapshot from the AV7005 manual:



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post #725 of 9656 Old 10-30-2010, 05:11 PM
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So what's correct? Maybe I should just stick with RCA.
LL

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post #726 of 9656 Old 10-30-2010, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cattledog View Post

So what's correct? Maybe I should just stick with RCA.

Or why not simply move to Europe? Bam, problem solved plus I hear they have really good pizza and croissants.

Even if your XLR wires are "free" they have no benefit unless you are running unusually long lengths, say not in the same stack of gear, in which case their design inherently cancels out incoming noise, usually hum. Keep in mind they don't reduce any noise/hum already in the signal to begin with and an RCA wire might not add any noise/hum at all, even in longer lengths, depending on your environment.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #727 of 9656 Old 10-30-2010, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Even if your XLR wires are "free" they have no benefit unless you are running unusually long lengths, say not in the same stack of gear, in which case their design inherently cancels out incoming noise, usually hum. Keep in mind they don't reduce any noise/hum already in the signal to begin with and an RCA wire might not add any noise/hum at all, even in longer lengths, depending on your environment.

Yep, and many power amps actually measure worse via balanced XLR than via unbalanced RCA. For a germane example, see the Marantz MM8003: "The signal-to-noise ratio with 2.83 volts driving an 8-ohm load from 10 hertz to 24 kHz with A weighting was -114.34 dBrA using the RCA input and -103.05 using the XLR input."

http://hometheatermag.com/preampproc...ar/index4.html

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post #728 of 9656 Old 10-30-2010, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha10 View Post

I am moving from an Onkyo 905 to the AV7005 which I am using with my MM8003 power amp, should be able to get it on Monday so I will let you know how it goes in the real world...

Nice, I look forward to hearing about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

Marantz seems somewhat confused. Here is a snapshot from the AV7005 manual:


Hmm, so at least we know they use the pin 2 "hot" method. I'm trying to find what pinout my amp uses but the manual nor the website nor any online reviews I am searching for seem to reveal it. It's the Sherbourn 7/2100a.
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post #729 of 9656 Old 10-30-2010, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by facesnorth View Post

I'm trying to find what pinout my amp uses but the manual nor the website nor any online reviews I am searching for seem to reveal it. It's the Sherbourn 7/2100a.

You could simply hook it up with all speakers as RCA (except one front as XLR) and run the built-in Audyssey test tones. It will report if the XLR one is out of phase with the others and then you'll know. [assuming XLR and RCA paths can run simultaneously in both products]

[or even if you had no built in tester you could listen to a simple 2ch recording, or even better still FM inter-station, un-muted noise/static, and listen for if the sound is in phase or out of phase. [You may have to initially play with the balance control if the sound isn't initially centered because of a level mismatch] If you are a little gun shy or inexperienced with this sound you can place the front two L and R speakers face to face, touching or within an inch of each other or so, and listen for which is louder and has more bass when flipping only one's red and black connections. When the speakers are out of phase with each other the sound is markedly quieter and lacking in bass. This would tell you the XLR pin configuration path you are currently using is flipping the phase of that channel.

Polarity doesn't matter anyways. [not to be confused with relative phase between all the speakers which is key] The people who say they are "sensitive to it" are full of...

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #730 of 9656 Old 10-30-2010, 09:07 PM
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Despite what you may believe, and you are correct about the published measurements, they can make an audible difference even with short runs! With my AV8003 hooked up via 6 ft RCAs of reasonable quality, there was a small amount of noise that could be heard with ears close to the main speakers, the volume control set for 0 dB, and the disc player paused. With XLR cables, again of reasonable quality, the noise was totally gone. This was with the MM8003 amp. No other changes were made in the system. The net result could be heard in the play back of music at reasonable sound levels. Perhaps if you use very expensive RCA's you can achieve the same results, but for the under $200 I spent on the XLR cables I am more than pleased.
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post #731 of 9656 Old 10-30-2010, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

One gold star to the first person to post pictures of the on screen display volume change indicator. Just a bar graph or a number too? How many seconds does it last? (someone already posted that it can be turned off if not desired)

Thanks

This is from the SR7005 (so assuming AV7005 should be the same):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46070476@N08/5130192725/

It shows relative volume (yes, that's quite high - it was paused and only displays very briefly so I kept the button held down to take the picture; I don't listen that high!)

I'd say it only displays on the screen 1 second.

It can be configured to be off, show on the bottom (as in the picture), or show on the top. It also can be set to display absolute volume (0.0 to 99.0) if you prefer, but I leave it at relative.
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post #732 of 9656 Old 10-30-2010, 09:37 PM
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^ You win! Thanks for the help.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #733 of 9656 Old 10-30-2010, 11:25 PM
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What's the difference between "Absolute" and "Relative" volume? Thanks
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post #734 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

^ You win! Thanks for the help.

Sure. But I just lost an hour staring at the shiny star thingies. ^.^ =oP (j/k)
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post #735 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarge1976 View Post

What's the difference between "Absolute" and "Relative" volume? Thanks

Relative volume is by decibel, and the numbers go negative. In this case, from -81.00dB to +18.0dB (the plus is not actually displayed). The idea is that 0.0 is reference level and what you should ideally listen to a movie in to get the same experience you do the theater (ie. the optimum volume level to hear everything at it's best). So 0.0 is actually quite loud, which can seem counterintuitive until you're used to it.

Absolute volume is simply a scale from 0.0 to 99.0. I assume it's just there for people who are used to just having volume being a scale/number and either prefer it that way or are initially confused by the negative numbers in relative volume, but I'm not positive on this.

Relative is the default, and is pretty easy to get used to (this is my first audio product that uses it and I had no trouble adapting). I like being able to watch a movie and set it to 0.0 (or around there depending on the movie) to know I'm experiencing close to how it was in the theater.

I recall reading that there's not a set standard for reference level, so it probably varies depending on the content. I'm fairly new to all this myself, so if I've made any errors, I welcome corrections - this is all right as far as I'm aware, though.
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post #736 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupta View Post

Relative volume is by decibel, and the numbers go negative. In this case, from -81.00dB to +18.0dB (the plus is not actually displayed). The idea is that 0.0 is reference level and what you should ideally listen to a movie in to get the same experience you do the theater (ie. the optimum volume level to hear everything at it's best). So 0.0 is actually quite loud, which can seem counterintuitive until you're used to it.

Absolute volume is simply a scale from 0.0 to 99.0. I assume it's just there for people who are used to just having volume being a scale/number and either prefer it that way or are initially confused by the negative numbers in relative volume, but I'm not positive on this.

Relative is the default, and is pretty easy to get used to (this is my first audio product that uses it and I had no trouble adapting). I like being able to watch a movie and set it to 0.0 (or around there depending on the movie) to know I'm experiencing close to how it was in the theater.

I recall reading that there's not a set standard for reference level, so it probably varies depending on the content. I'm fairly new to all this myself, so if I've made any errors, I welcome corrections - this is all right as far as I'm aware, though.

Interesting if that is right. My room isn't big enough for my system to run at 0.0 Typically leave it around -16db or people complain it's to loud. Now that I think about it, I think you are right because when you adjust the speakers manually on the 8001 it goes to 0.0

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post #737 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cattledog View Post

So what's correct? Maybe I should just stick with RCA.

It simply does not matter as long as all your channels are connected in the same way. No need to rewire anything; just plug 'em in.

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post #738 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 08:22 AM
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Ok, some help is needed. I was using an Integra 9.8, all HDMI with XLR's for audio output to amps.

I hooked up my new AV7005 today and have a HORRIBLE hum. Sounds like a ground loop problem. If I unhook the HDMI from my Dishnetwork receiver, it goes away. What the hell do I do?
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post #739 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 08:30 AM
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Ok, I put a cheater plug on the sat box and the hum is now gone. So it was a ground loop problem with the Dish receiver.
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post #740 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

It simply does not matter as long as all your channels are connected in the same way. No need to rewire anything; just plug 'em in.

Kal, dumb question. My Parasound Halo amps have a level control knob on the back. Do you typically run your amps with the level control knob on full?
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post #741 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phansson View Post

Kal, dumb question. My Parasound Halo amps have a level control knob on the back. Do you typically run your amps with the level control knob on full?

My amps do not have level controls.

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post #742 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 09:37 AM
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With regard to all the XLR connection questions directed to me...

I am using a Classe CA-5100 amp connected with XLRs. When I first hooked it up, using the XLR cables that I have previously used, there was simply no sound output whatsoever. When I swapped the hot and cold on one end of the cable everything worked properly.

I don't think this change has anything to do with the phase anomaly that Audyssey reported. I say this because it only reported my front three speakers as being out of phase, where my surrounds are also powered by the same amp, with the same swapped pin XLR cables.

I hit "skip" on the phase message, as I'm sure the +/- connections are correct. The setup proceeded normally, and the system sounds great.
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post #743 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 10:17 AM
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So my AV7005 is up and running. Connected with RCA (tripple shielded) to Rotel RB-180 (front) and RMB-1075 (center and surrounds).

First thing the unit did was performing an update. Went through in 15 Minutes.

Setup was easy but i have to say the menu is somewhat oldfashioned compared to my 3year old AVR3808a. But is functional and intuitive so im fine with that.

Audyssey worked without complaining and the result was accurate. Calculating and storing the measurement was far faster than with the 3808a.

The sound is awesome. Neutral with a slight warm touch. Not as analytical as the Onkyo/Integras preamps i listened to. The sound is very detailed and dynamicly. Surrounding is much wider and precise than with the Denon receiver.

The blue ring around the top display can be turned of by holding doen the display button on the unit for 3 seconds. Both display can be turned off or auto off when not used.

Overall i'm very happy and the unit is worth every penny.

Here is the most recent table of discrete codes incl ones of the AV7005 for all Pronto owners (like me):

http://us.marantz.com/Marantz_RC_codes_All_AVR_Amp.zip
LL
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post #744 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omnikurt View Post

With regard to all the XLR connection questions directed to me...

I am using a Classe CA-5100 amp connected with XLRs. When I first hooked it up, using the XLR cables that I have previously used, there was simply no sound output whatsoever. When I swapped the hot and cold on one end of the cable everything worked properly.


I'll have to look at my XLR's I have, is it all that difficult to swap the pins...?

I thought that XLR config was standard everywhere...
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post #745 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenous View Post

So my AV7005 is up and running. Connected with RCA (tripple shielded) to Rotel RB-180 (front) and RMB-1075 (center and surrounds).

First thing the unit did was performing an update. Went through in 15 Minutes.

Setup was easy but i have to say the menu is somewhat oldfashioned compared to my 3year old AVR3808a. But is functional and intuitive so im fine with that.

Audyssey worked without complaining and the result was accurate. Calculating and storing the measurement was far faster than with the 3808a.

The sound is awesome. Neutral with a slight warm touch. Not as analytical as the Onkyo/Integras preamps i listened to. The sound is very detailed and dynamicly. Surrounding is much wider and precise than with the Denon receiver.

The blue ring around the top display can be turned of by holding doen the display button on the unit for 3 seconds. Both display can be turned off or auto off when not used.

Overall i'm very happy and the unit is worth every penny.

Here is the most recent table of discrete codes incl ones of the AV7005 for all Pronto owners (like me):

http://us.marantz.com/Marantz_RC_codes_All_AVR_Amp.zip

Thanks for all that info, I assume that the menu system is the same as the 8003 then..... ? Pics ?


Are you just pulling the Hex Codes down to program your pronto, and they are working fine, I saw that just before you posted it on the Marantz website.... Very nice...
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post #746 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 10:45 AM
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This pre/pro looks nice for the money. I have an Emotive UPA-7 which has rca only inputs but my sub amp is a Yamaha XP3500 and I just looked at the manual and it's xlr pin outs are the same as what Marantz has. I think this will be good for me to use the xlr connection to the sub amp because of the higher voltage output.
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post #747 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omnikurt View Post

I am using a Classe CA-5100 amp connected with XLRs. When I first hooked it up, using the XLR cables that I have previously used, there was simply no sound output whatsoever. When I swapped the hot and cold on one end of the cable everything worked properly.

That makes no sense at all unless the the Marantz output is not really balanced and the Classe is set for unbalanced input. That might result in the Classe grounding the single-ended signal. Highly improbable, I know.

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post #748 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 12:26 PM
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How deep is this unit from the front of the front feet to the back of the back feet (i.e. minimum shelf to hold this on its feet)?

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post #749 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Thanks for all that info, I assume that the menu system is the same as the 8003 then..... ? Pics ?

Are you just pulling the Hex Codes down to program your pronto, and they are working fine, I saw that just before you posted it on the Marantz website.... Very nice...

Pictures of the menu will be online tomorrow.

I have nearly finished my Pronto setup with a lot of direct buttons which are not on the origonal remote. Did a quick test and the codes are working fine.

If you have some more patience, i will also upload the full pcf file tomorrow.

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post #750 of 9656 Old 10-31-2010, 01:44 PM
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Sweet !!

I don't have one of these yet, but it's high priority on my list
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