Onkyo SC5508 Surround processor [No Price Talk] - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 2743 Old 12-29-2010, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkster27 View Post

OSD in 1080p 24Hz over HDMI in my setup works. My 1080p 24Hz source is an LG BD390 blu-ray player.

Thanks for advice.
Does your 5508 HDMI out set to 1080/24p or "Through" option to enable OSD in 1080p 24Hz over HDMI?
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post #302 of 2743 Old 12-29-2010, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRP-600M View Post

Thanks for advice.
Does your 5508 HDMI out set to 1080/24p or "Through" option to enable OSD in 1080p 24Hz over HDMI?

If I understand you correctly, OSD does work in 1080/24p.

From the manual:
"On the “Monitor Out” settings, you can select whether or
not to have the video sources’ images output through the
HDMI output, as well as whether to have the onscreen
setup menu output through the HDMI output or through
an analog output.
If you connect your TV to HDMI output, “Monitor Out”
setting is automatically set so that the onscreen setup
menus are displayed and composite video, S-Video, and
component video sources are upconverted* and output."

Of course, there may be exceptions, but as far as I can tell, at least the basic OSD works in all HDMI configurations. (I haven't tested my remaining S-Video connection.)
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post #303 of 2743 Old 12-30-2010, 09:10 AM
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Just got my Emotiva amps, and just really fast hooked them up on the PR-SC5508 with unbalanced cables in anticipation of my balanced ones.
I was just wondering guys, is it mine or that's how it is, my pre/pro needs to go to 40 to start listening to something? Have I done something wrong?
If it's something obvious just please let me know otherwise it has to wait for me to get back a week later
BTW, Happy New Year everyone !
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post #304 of 2743 Old 12-30-2010, 09:19 AM
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If you change your volume setting to relative rather than absolute , you will get settings you are used to. Background noise in a home is about 40db
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post #305 of 2743 Old 12-30-2010, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ezervoud View Post
my pre/pro needs to go to 40 to start listening to something? Have I done something wrong?
Probably not, but you are getting less output than I am. For me, sound comes on at 20[absolute] / -60[relative]. For background listening, I usually start at -20[relative] and go up from there. 0[relative] is the THX reference volume for movies, but there is still plenty of room above that. That being said, my 5508 does have overall lower volume output than my old 885. I'm thinking this may be to make the THX reference more accurate, because I would almost never use 0[relative] on the 885, but that's where I'm listening to most movies on the 5508.
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post #306 of 2743 Old 12-30-2010, 09:53 AM
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Thanks for the prompt reply hawkster27 and jmschnur. In absolute terms you shouldn't have to go all the way up to 40, which is something like 40% of the full power, to get things started.
I am playing an SACD hooked up on analog again
Two/front channel amp - Emotiva XPA-2
Five channel amp - Emotiva XPA-5
Front Speakers - B&W 803 nautilus
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post #307 of 2743 Old 12-30-2010, 10:20 AM
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To make the long story short, do I need to worry?
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post #308 of 2743 Old 12-30-2010, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
I was just wondering guys, is it mine or that's how it is, my pre/pro needs to go to 40 to start listening to something?

To cut to the chase, I'm sure you have no problem there.

That said, there are a lot of variables that can affect how you perceive the "loudness" of your system. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir with stuff you already know, but since you didn't mention too many things, I thought I'd mention these. The most influencial factors (outside of the obvious facts you provided; amp power and speaker model/sensitivity) would be the size of your room, your listening distance, the acoustic liveliness, and the output levels of your various sources. We can probably presume that you have accomplished the Audyssey calibration which is going to set your relative levels so that the master relative level that Hawkster27 mentions provides a standard for spl at your listening position (mic position #1). Any mainstream BD player is going to deliver the required output level. Cable/sat sources are a different animal, but you can address those issues in the menus.

The Emotiva output (gain structure) matches/meets the THX gain structure spec, so with the 5508 you will achieve the designed spl after calibration. If your listening distance was so great as to make that unatainable, you would have learned that in the Audyssey calibration with trims near or at the top end. As long as they are 0 +/-6dB, then your gear and your room are in harmony.

In the FWIW catagory...despite THX Reference technically measuring the same at home and in the cinema, it is widely held even by THX that this is perceived as much louder at home. That is a big reason that John Dahl came up with THX Loudness, and Audyssey came up with DynamicEQ.

One thing I notice that I always find intersting is how the number of people watching effects my perception of where I need to set the level. The more people, the higher the level seems to need to be set. I wonder if that is real or psychosomatic.

I'm enjoying reading all your posts. I used the 886 in a number of projects that I designed and/or provided for fellow AVS members, but I haven't started one with the 5508 yet. I have a number of 5508s enroute, so I'm looking forward to swapping out the 886 for a 5508.

Happy New Year to all
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post #309 of 2743 Old 12-30-2010, 11:12 AM
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Cam Man many thanks for your email. I really had no time to do any adjustments.
As said above, just hooked it up and the volume thing struck me as odd
Fortunately or unfortunately, tomorrow I fly out for a week of vacations with the family so it will have to wait :-)
Thanks again everyone, at least I will leave with piece of mind :-)
Happy New Year !!!
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post #310 of 2743 Old 12-30-2010, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkster27 View Post

[...]my 5508 does have overall lower volume output than my old 885. I'm thinking this may be to make the THX reference more accurate, because I would almost never use 0[relative] on the 885, but that's where I'm listening to most movies on the 5508.

Hi,

I'm wondering on your 5508 by any chance did Audyssey set a lot of positive trim settings, or a few large positive trim settings?

Larry
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post #311 of 2743 Old 12-30-2010, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi,

I'm wondering on your 5508 by any chance did Audyssey set a lot of positive trim settings, or a few large positive trim settings?

Larry

I dunno. I didn't note the settings when Audyssey completed, and I don't think there is a way to recall them later (unlike the 885, where you could).
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post #312 of 2743 Old 12-30-2010, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkster27 View Post

I dunno. I didn't note the settings when Audyssey completed, and I don't think there is a way to recall them later (unlike the 885, where you could).

Hi,

It should work in the same manner as the earlier models. Manually navigate to Speaker Configuration, Level Calibration, page 49 of your manual. The trim settings should be both visible and adjustable when you listen to the test tone for each speaker.

The reason I am asking is because there is an issue called Volume Scaling that can sometimes limit the degree to which you can increase the volume if you have multiple processes competing for gain on the device. This can occur in various brand devices. This is described in detail in the review of the Denon AVP-A1HDCI prepro. Scroll down to the section entitled "Volume Scaling Issue" at the bottom of the web page.

I ran into this issue on my Onkyo PR-SC886. My surround channels were set at close to the maximum trim settings and I found that I couldn't raise the volume to reference level. Later I found that I had a faulty power amplifier.

Anyway this may have absolutely nothing to do with your situation, but I thought I'd throw it out there for your consideration.

Larry
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post #313 of 2743 Old 12-30-2010, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi,

It should work in the same manner as the earlier models. Manually navigate to Speaker Configuration, Level Calibration, page 49 of your manual. The trim settings should be both visible and adjustable when you listen to the test tone for each speaker.

The reason I am asking is because there is an issue called Volume Scaling that can sometimes limit the degree to which you can increase the volume if you have multiple processes competing for gain on the device.

I see. On that page, Audyssey has set my mains (Klipsch Forte IIs) to -8db, and my center (Klipsch) and in-ceiling surrounds (Marantz) to -4db.
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post #314 of 2743 Old 12-30-2010, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkster27 View Post

I see. On that page, Audyssey has set my mains (Klipsch Forte IIs) to -8db, and my center (Klipsch) and in-ceiling surrounds (Marantz) to -4db.

Hi,

At the risk of stating the obvious, with all negative trims it is very unlikely you have a Volume Scaling issue.

Larry
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post #315 of 2743 Old 12-30-2010, 11:21 PM
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I have bought and received today the SC5508 and just set it into my system.
As mentioned before there is Audible relay switching, each function cause relay switch noise; i'm sitting about 10 feet and can hear it very well, this is very disappoint and make me feel uncomfortable. I have had the 886 and this phenomenon wasn't existing.
Can anyone confirm this is the unit design and not failure?
Can it be solved buy any future firmware update?

Another issue - does the PR-SC 5508 able to transfer HDMI signal while it on Stand-by mode or only when it turn on? i.e. i would like to see the cable box without turn on the Onkyo.
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post #316 of 2743 Old 12-31-2010, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRP-600M View Post

I have bought and received today the SC5508 and just set it into my system.
As mentioned before there is Audible relay switching, each function cause relay switch noise; i'm sitting about 10 feet and can hear it very well, this is very disappoint and make me feel uncomfortable. I have had the 886 and this phenomenon wasn't existing.
Can anyone confirm this is the unit design and not failure?
Can it be solved buy any future firmware update?

Another issue - does the PR-SC 5508 able to transfer HDMI signal while it on Stand-by mode or only when it turn on? i.e. i would like to see the cable box without turn on the Onkyo.

Unless you and I both have defective units, the relay switching noise is part of all 5508s. Very disappointing, indeed.

The 5508 will not transfer HDMI in standby mode. One of the primary functions of this or any preamp is to act as a signal switcher/director. When in standby (essentially "off") the signal is severed.
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post #317 of 2743 Old 12-31-2010, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkster27 View Post

Unless you and I both have defective units, the relay switching noise is part of all 5508s. Very disappointing, indeed.

The 5508 will not transfer HDMI in standby mode. One of the primary functions of this or any preamp is to act as a signal switcher/director. When in standby (essentially "off") the signal is severed.

Do you think this is a defective unit or this is the design?
Did you hear about other users with same relay issue?

BTW, i just find on the menu under HDMI RHID you can set the power control to on and by this you have the possibility to " path through" HDMI at standby just note that in this setting the standby power will increase up to 50 watt
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post #318 of 2743 Old 12-31-2010, 09:19 AM
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Seems to be part of design. Lots of tricks to minimize but always there to some extent. Could be future firmware will minimize it.
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post #319 of 2743 Old 12-31-2010, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

Seems to be part of design. Lots of tricks to minimize but always there to some extent. Could be future firmware will minimize it.

Hey, please share those tricks! A firmware fix would be welcome, but I don't see how firmware can address what seems to be a mechanical issue, but perhaps I don't understand how the relays work.
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post #320 of 2743 Old 12-31-2010, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

Seems to be part of design.

Hi Joel,

Yes, no question this is a design issue and not confined to isolated Onkyo units since, as you know the Onkyo's sister prepro, the Integra DCH-80.2, also suffers from the same defect. The degree of the nusiance seems to vary with the user's tolerance level, unit placement, and the type of source devices connected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPLawren View Post

As a recent 80.2 buyer who was concerned about the relay clicks, I can say that they are present and would be annoying to me and my family members, were the unit within closer listening range. My unit is for our HT and sits around a corner from our seats in an open closet about 8 ft away, so I don't notice it too much, except during commercials (cable) and during previews and ff/rwd (blu-ray). I am a little confused how Integra overlooked this apparent design issue (not a "flaw", really, since my unit works perfectly -- clickety-clackety relays included). There is a way to avoid some of the clicks through particular fixed sound output settings for each source, but that can be an unacceptable compromise to some users in changing the native audio format (search this thread).

If the 80.2 were used for our every-day, primary viewing system in our family room, I would have either found a way to hide the unit in a cabinet or gone with something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

As I have said several times before, I really think the relay clicking issue is quite overblown. Yes, Integra could have chosen a quieter relay, but they did not. So, that's the way it is, and here we are.

The real issue is, once again for the umteenth time, getting the Listening Mode Presets in the Integra setup menu set consistently so that they do not trigger the relay in the first place. I still believe most complainers have not done this. Yes, the major annoying issue seems to be on CBL/SAT as the program material changes between Mch program and stereo (or possibly mono) commercials. I cannot speak for all cable/sat boxes or providers, but with my Comcast Motorola box via HDMI, I have zero relay clicks ever on watching TV or changing channels because I have taken the time to set uo the Listening Mode Presets properly. I know exacltly how to mis-do this or do it correctly to trigger the relay or not. It may differ on other services/boxes, so I cannot offer a blanket prescription. But, If you take the time to get these settings correct and consistent for your service provider, I think it will make all the difference.

The only time I hear relay clicking is on chapter skips on a hi rez, lossless Blu-ray. I do not know of a solution for that, but it comes up so rarely for me that it is a total non-issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpimpin View Post

Fitz...I sense your frustration and this isn't a personal attack, but the issue isn't as simple as you portray. I've owned other pieces of Integra equipment and I'm familiar with setting the default listening modes like you describe, it doesn't however seem to make a difference with certain devices I have connected to my 80.2. Similar to other complaints, DirecTV appears to be the biggest culprit for relay clicks in my set up regardless of the default listening mode I select. Historically I've been able to mitigate the relay clicks like you describe above however that is not the case with my current theater set up. I'm glad you've been able to mitigate the clicks you hear, but for others who may not be able to do the same, the relay click issue is a frequent nuisance. I believe the gravity of the issue is dependent upon specific equipment connected to the 80.2.

Larry
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post #321 of 2743 Old 12-31-2010, 10:24 AM
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This is mechanical/hardware issue so i do not think that firmware will solve this.
My unit is into a close cabinet and the relays are to audible, each function i do cause the relay work and it can drive crazy.
I didn't understand the options to minimize that so please explain.
Thanks
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post #322 of 2743 Old 12-31-2010, 10:41 AM
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Buffering the delays for the relays might help in a firmware release. Relays are engaged when type of sound changes and codec called for in setup. One can disable 5.1 in direct tv and then choose plii for all inputs. I do not do this. Variations on this theme lead to decrease in clicks. I just mute sound during commercials. I also have the unit 10 feet away which helps.
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post #323 of 2743 Old 12-31-2010, 06:20 PM
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The relay clicking when the unit switches between stereo and multichannel output has been an Onkyo issue for years, going at least as far back as my 885. If you didn't hear it on your 886, it's probably because you had it configured to matrix stereo sources to all channels. That's the usual way to stop the relay clicking... by setting your sources to output in All Channel Stereo, DPL II, or whatever other matrix format you prefer when a stereo input is received. This prevents the pre-pro from switching to stereo mode when a 2-channel source such as a commercial or movie trailer is played, meaning you don't get any relay clicks.
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post #324 of 2743 Old 12-31-2010, 07:25 PM
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I don't own the unit yet (Due mainly to this very issue and am still trying to find a good price on either this or the sister Integra 80.2 model) but can you "confirm" please as to whether setting a matrix mode like Dolby Pro-Logic IIz will TOTALLY get rid of the clicking?

I just made a rather lengthy post in the sister Integra 80.2 thread which I won't repeat here as to my concerns with the clicking and that they consist of more than simply nuisance factors, but I always listen in a matrix mode anyway because I have a 7.1 setup (and will soon have an Audyssey DSX 9.2 setup, hopefully using one of these pre-pros) but listen mainly to Dolby Digital 5.1 Audio through DirecTV (HR22).

So to simplify, if I have my DirecTV set to Dolby Digital (I don't want to scale back to 2-channel by turning Dolby Digital off [to get rid of the clicking] as I want to UPGRADE my equipment and audio experience and never downgrade or go back in time) and engage Dolby Pro Logic IIz (Or is there another more appropriate mode in which I am not familiar?) "ALL" clicking will go away unless I switch inputs to Blu-Ray and listen to Lossless or switch to an Analog PC input to listen to an MP3 which I do for 5 hours per day, 4 days a week (Howard Stern Superfan here! ) via an automatic recording of his show I get each day in which I listen to 7 channel stereo? I don't mind a click if I mute or change inputs. If I'm on a specific input and while using that input at a pre-selected volume, during content, including fast forwarding through commercials or pausing to answer the phone, is where I heavily object to the relay clicking.

I would think the issue COULD BE greatly improved, though not completely fixed since the relays are mechanical, by the very suggestion of buffering. I suppose the question is, as I've always been a Denon guy and have yet to own an Onkyo/Integra, how is the support for these types of things?

I have heard mixed things. I know the company isn't Oppo for instance. However, they have already issued one Firmware update. This is a brand new product, but is also mainly a feature upgraded version of the pre-existing 80.1/5507, right? There were no firmware updates to fix the issue for those models and the relay clicking issue is the "same" on those models, right?

Any input or speculation as to whether they MAY fix this, if we are correct in assuming they CAN?

Thanks!

--J

Thanks to EVERYONE that Helps Make These Threads so Awesome!

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post #325 of 2743 Old 12-31-2010, 08:27 PM
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There was 1 FW update (last year-09) on the 5507/80.1 that addressed the clicking issue as well as a couple of other minor issues, if I am not mistaken.
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post #326 of 2743 Old 12-31-2010, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanl715 View Post

There was 1 FW update (last year-09) on the 5507/80.1 that addressed the clicking issue as well as a couple of other minor issues, if I am not mistaken.

You'd think that if it was a fixed issue in the previous model it wouldn't be an issue at all anymore.
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post #327 of 2743 Old 01-01-2011, 01:04 AM
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So you suggest to set all input to "All CH Stereo" mode despite we want to listen to DTS?
I have had the 886 till 2 days ago and the relays was only when change inputs i.e. from DVD to BD (anyway these was not audible at all) but it was not exist when codecs changed and/or stop/play etc.

I have checked on Onkyo's web and didn't find it was fixed on the 5507 via firmware.

Another aspect is that this phenomenon may short the unit's life or cause a malfunction from time to time due to incessantly relay switching...
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post #328 of 2743 Old 01-01-2011, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboRay View Post

The relay clicking when the unit switches between stereo and multichannel output has been an Onkyo issue for years, going at least as far back as my 885. If you didn't hear it on your 886, it's probably because you had it configured to matrix stereo sources to all channels. That's the usual way to stop the relay clicking... by setting your sources to output in All Channel Stereo, DPL II, or whatever other matrix format you prefer when a stereo input is received. This prevents the pre-pro from switching to stereo mode when a 2-channel source such as a commercial or movie trailer is played, meaning you don't get any relay clicks.

I have owned the 885, 886, and now the 5507.
I first noticed the clicking in the 5507 and I always used the native mode in all models. It does not bother me.

I am planning on sticking with the 5507 unless I want to go 3D.

- Rich

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post #329 of 2743 Old 01-01-2011, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRP-600M View Post


I have checked on Onkyo's web and didn't find it was fixed on the 5507 via firmware.


No one here said that there was a firmware update that fixed/eliminated it!
Yes Alan said that there was a firmware that "addressed it", but he never said that if completely fixed/eliminated it. And in fact there was a firmware release for the 80.1, dated 2/24/10, and for the 5507 dated 2/23/10. Where it was mentioned in both of them what the changes are, in that it helped to reduce it some. Notice it says it REDUCE, it does not say fix, cure, or eliminate the relay clicking!

Here is a PDF stating what each firmware update addressed for the 80.1, look on the 2nd page

http://filedepot.onkyousa.com/Files/...418563c1046432

"The 2/24/10 update will:
1. Enhance S/N during 24bit/96kHz content playback from USB memory/DLNA server
2. Reduce speaker relay switching sound"


And for the 5507, this web page.


http://www.intl.onkyo.com/support/fi...pr-sc5507.html


"As of 23 February 2010

• Improves operation with Windows 7 "Play To" by correcting the problem of lossy playback of DRM-protected 24 bit/96 kHz WMA Lossless files;
• Enhances S/N ratio during playback of 24 bit/96 kHz content via USB memory device or DLNA server;
• Reduces sound of speaker relay switching;
• Improves efficiency of iPod charging."
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post #330 of 2743 Old 01-01-2011, 08:09 AM
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Can you please tell if the relay switching audible only from the Onkyo or from the speakers too?

In my system the relay switching came from the Onkyo but sometimes it cam from the speakers as well. Is there any explanation?
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