Onkyo SC5508 Surround processor [No Price Talk] - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 03:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

At first I thought the Audessey setting would make the center sound a little too forward and harsh...but it didn't
Dialogue is clearer, imaging better and the tonality of sounds, overall, is improved with the 5508

You will find further improvement when you run all 8 positions and have experimented to find the best placement of those Mic positions for your room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

The menu system needs help.
After using the new Yamaha menus the Onkyo system seems like a dinosaur.
I think these units are behind both Yamaha and Denon in the menu system

This will always be down to personal preference. After having 3 Yamaha's (Z11, Z7, 3900) the move to Onkyo was strange at first. But after I got used to the Onkyo GUI, I quite liked it. Now going back to Yamaha, with the new GUI, I can't say that I like it.
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post #1172 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

You will find further improvement when you run all 8 positions and have experimented to find the best placement of those Mic positions for your room.



This will always be down to personal preference. After having 3 Yamaha's (Z11, Z7, 3900) the move to Onkyo was strange at first. But after I got used to the Onkyo GUI, I quite liked it. Now going back to Yamaha, with the new GUI, I can't say that I like it.

I will have to try to further tweak it this weekend when I have more time

I had some "freakish" issues with the networking last night..when I finally got it to connect for some reason the 12v trigger seems to act up
I finally got it all to work though....tried Pandora etc and all seemed good

As for the menu system..I can only speak for the Z7, of that group you mentioned
The Yamaha A3000 is a big step up from the Z7 menu IMO...I really like the animation of the icons on the A3000
My understanding is that Yamaha uses that same system for their products even in the lower end of their product range..if that is true, hats off to them for putting that system in a $500(MSRP) receiver

Plus you can tweak settings over HDMI without interrupting the video signal

I am really not sure the menu system on the 5508 is a big step up from the 885

Though....truth be told.. a menu system is hardly a make or break issue for me. It just falls in the category of preferences

Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer SC37 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009/906 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
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post #1173 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 04:56 AM
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Play with the home button in remote Good way to make changes without going to setup.


Also network based remote config is useful for tv and DVD box control.
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post #1174 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

Play with the home button in remote Good way to make changes without going to setup.


Also network based remote config is useful for tv and DVD box control.

I activated the HDMI CEC control last night as well for a while

Like the Yamaha..the Onkyo wants to turn to the TV audio input when the Tv is turned on

I do think there is a way to turn off audio return channel..perhaps this would disable that feature
I can also see that..just like the Yamaha..if you use the TV remote to change volume the Onkyo will adjust without having line of sight

I also have both a Samsung BD player and a Samsung TV...the combination will also make further automatic adjustments..typically video to the TV..when certain BD movies are played

I ended up just turning the feature off, as there were too many things changing automatically that were unwanted

I have a universal remote that I use for my HT...and typically don't ever use the manufacturer dedicated remotes much..unless I am changing the settings

By the way...I wonder when Direct TV will implement the CEC control into their boxes...They always market themselves as cutting edge but they seem to be behind the curve on that one

Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer SC37 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009/906 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
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post #1175 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 06:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

As for the menu system..I can only speak for the Z7, of that group you mentioned
The Yamaha A3000 is a big step up from the Z7 menu IMO...I really like the animation of the icons on the A3000

I do like the look of the Yamaha GUI, but I think they put more effort into the look rather than the functionality. Sadly, the GUI is becoming a selling point for manufactures, but to me (and many others I'm sure) it means very little. As I don't take picture through my AVR, I got used to making adjustments using the front panel display. I suppose that is why I don’t care much for fancy pictures and smooth scrolling menus. Unfortunately it seems that less and less can be done on the front panel, which (I feel) is a major step in the wrong direction.

The remote is also a let-down. It's bigger than the previous one, but the poor design affects the overall functionality. For some crazy reason Yamaha decided to go back to putting buttons behind a silly flap. A few buttons that I use regularly are behind this flap. For me to make the quick and simple adjustments (that were easy and fast on the older Yamaha’s and Onkyo 3008) I have to keep opening this flap. It's not a major issue, but an unnecessary step backwards (to me). I remember having to do the same around 10 years ago when I had the Yamaha AX1.
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post #1176 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post


I activated the HDMI CEC control last night as well for a while

Like the Yamaha..the Onkyo wants to turn to the TV audio input when the Tv is turned on

I do think there is a way to turn off audio return channel..perhaps this would disable that feature
I can also see that..just like the Yamaha..if you use the TV remote to change volume the Onkyo will adjust without having line of sight

I also have both a Samsung BD player and a Samsung TV...the combination will also make further automatic adjustments..typically video to the TV..when certain BD movies are played

I ended up just turning the feature off, as there were too many things changing automatically that were unwanted

I have a universal remote that I use for my HT...and typically don't ever use the manufacturer dedicated remotes much..unless I am changing the settings

By the way...I wonder when Direct TV will implement the CEC control into their boxes...They always market themselves as cutting edge but they seem to be behind the curve on that one

Warren

I do not like cec I do have an 880 which does fine but home is a neat feature to play with the center levels etc
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post #1177 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bneiderman View Post

Hi Guys,

Just had a professional theater install performed with the SC5508 surround processor. I have a few issues with it and was wondering if I could get some help. First, a little about the system. Amp is a Sunfire TGA-7401 (400x7). I have 2x Velodyne 12" Optimum subs. Front speakers are 3x PSB CW800E with 4x PSB CW260 surrounds. Anyhow, we calibrated the subs utilizing their onboard EQ and supplied microphone. Next, I updated the SC5508 to the newest firmware and got an "Update Complete" message (this took only 5 minutes). Next we ran the Audyssey setup and calibrated 7 positions as I have 7theater seats. Here are the issues:

1) The bass is horribly low. Audyssey had us initially set the decible level at listening postition to 75db for each sub which we did, but when we played the "I am Legend" movie with the first car scene the bass was pathetically low and we "felt" nothing. Before calibration bass was rather loud.

Is this your first experience with Audyssey's room correction system? What filters were dialed into the Velos' EQ?

Jeff
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post #1178 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 12:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Is this your first experience with Audyssey's room correction system? What filters were dialed into the Velos' EQ?

Jeff

Personally, I think this is going to be down to incorrect mic placement. The comment about 7 seats and 7 positions suggests that the mic has been placed on the 7 seats, rather than using the pattern required for Audyssey to work properly. But I was waiting for a reply from my previous post before I got into that.

The reason I waited is because it seems that there are many people setting up a small business in the industry and they really have no clue at all what the hell they are doing. I, like many others, like to help people where possible, but by us giving the OP our experience and knowledge it is only going to let the installer get away with offering poor service.

I thought this kind of thing might only be going on in the UK, as there has been a sudden growth in the number of muppets who think that a little knowledge equals a great idea for a business, but sadly it seems that it's also going on in other parts of the world.
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post #1179 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

Personally, I think this is going to be down to incorrect mic placement.

I was headed to the "doesn't know what flat bass sounds like" corner ...
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post #1180 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 02:13 PM
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Although I have followed this thread from the beggining I do not recall much discussion about those (if any) that are using the MCH analog input. Is anyone that has owned the 885/886 listened to and have SQ comparison thoughts of the 5508's MCH analog input compared to the 885/886's MCH analog input?

Bill

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post #1181 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Although I have followed this thread from the beggining I do not recall much discussion about those (if any) that are using the MCH analog input. Is anyone that has owned the 885/886 listened to and have SQ comparison thoughts of the 5508's MCH analog input compared to the 885/886's MCH analog input?

Bill

I use the MC inputs on my 5508 for SACD and love it. I can't make a comparison though to the 885/886 though.

Front - Mythos ST
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post #1182 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

Personally, I think this is going to be down to incorrect mic placement. The comment about 7 seats and 7 positions suggests that the mic has been placed on the 7 seats, rather than using the pattern required for Audyssey to work properly. But I was waiting for a reply from my previous post before I got into that.

The reason I waited is because it seems that there are many people setting up a small business in the industry and they really have no clue at all what the hell they are doing. I, like many others, like to help people where possible, but by us giving the OP our experience and knowledge it is only going to let the installer get away with offering poor service.

I thought this kind of thing might only be going on in the UK, as there has been a sudden growth in the number of muppets who think that a little knowledge equals a great idea for a business, but sadly it seems that it's also going on in other parts of the world.

Good info. I set my mic up on a tripod at ear level (sitting position) and started in the center of the listening area then moved to sitting positions at ear level. The results are awesome but if it can get any better by another method I am open to your input.

Front - Mythos ST
Center - Mythos 8 and 10
Front Height - Gems
Side Surround - Gem XL
Back Surround - Gems
Sub - Supercube Ref

There can never be enough music
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post #1183 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 03:05 PM
 
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Good info. I set my mic up on a tripod at ear level (sitting position) and started in the center of the listening area then moved to sitting positions at ear level. The results are awesome but if it can get any better by another method I am open to your input.

I think there is a misunderstanding that Audyssey (or any room correction technology) has the ability to give great results for numerous seating positions. Athough a wider area can be taken into consideration, it is the main listening position (when done correctly) that will benefit the most from any room EQ technology.

Some manufacturers will have you believe that their EQ technology will benefit from the mic being placed at the various seating positions within a room. This may or may not be correct. Personally I think this is just a cunning way to lead people into believing that each seat is being catered for, rather than admitting that their room EQ isn't capable of proper calibration of multiple seating positions.

Results vary widely depending on mic placement and what works for one technology doesn't always apply very well to another. With Audyssey, using all possible mic positons in a symmetrical pattern around the main listening area is what usually works best.

For anyone wanting to take time to understand Audyssey, read the first post (at the very least) of this thread to begin with:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=14456895

Beyond that, I would suggest taking time to experiment with mic positions, as the distance between them can make a big difference from one room to the next.
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I was headed to the "doesn't know what flat bass sounds like" corner ...

Ahh yes, good point. That will add even more to the situation.
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post #1185 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Maddmaster View Post

I use the MC inputs on my 5508 for SACD and love it. I can't make a comparison though to the 885/886 though.

Thanks for your thoughts. If and when I get the 5508 I'll be using the MCH inputs for SACD/DVD-A playback as well.

Bill

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post #1186 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 04:36 PM
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I put in my order today. Ships Monday. Upgrading from 885. I'll let you know how it goes / how it compares in my system.
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post #1187 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddmaster View Post

I use the MC inputs on my 5508 for SACD and love it. I can't make a comparison though to the 885/886 though.

DO you use Audyssey with MCH input?

Speakers: Pioneer/TAD S-1EX, S-7EX, Ascend with RAAL upgrade
Pre/Pro: Onkyo PR-SC5508,Bel Canto Pre-6, Sherwood 972
Amp: Outlaw 770
Source:Oppo 105, Ciunas DAC, SB Touch
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post #1188 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 05:52 PM
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DO you use Audyssey with MCH input?

Audyssey can not be used when using the MCH analog input. No DSP processing or bass management as well. At least thats how my 886 is and I'm assuming the 5508 is the same as well.

Bill

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post #1189 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 06:16 PM
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So far the 5508 is pretty impressive. I have listened to more music in the last couple of days than I probably have in the last month and it's a definite improvement over the 886. I would say it sounds a little thinner and less focused than the best music processors I have owned, there is just something that is missing but I haven't figured it out yet. The Marantz AV7005 may have been a little more musical with music being a little more fleshed out, it's hard to describe. The Marantz isn't the processor I was referring to as being the best musically, the Proceed AVP2 +6 was the best I owned for music.

I am hoping the Pro calibration brings the sound more into focus with even great detail. Right now I would say the sound stage is too big, sort of like applying one of the DSP sims like Stadium but just not to that extreme.

These are just nit picks though and I noticed that I have been listening to entire tracks instead of skipping to the next chapter after a minute like I do with a lot of other demo's. Right now a really good song came up so I am going to run back to the sweet spot to have a listen

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #1190 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 06:40 PM
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OK, that was a good track.

As far as the comparison to the Marantz AV7005 which is the flavor of the month right now I would say the Marantz has a fuller warmer sound for music. It would have been nice to still have the AV7005 around for a direct comparison but I got rid of it mainly due to the movies performance which was bested by the 886.

The Onkyo 886 and 5508 just do bass better than both the Denon 4311 and Marantz AV7005 in my system. I had a pair of extremely high quality 18" sealed subs that were good with the Denon and Marantz but really came to life with the Onkyo 886. It was such a difference that when I came to audition the subs for a fellow AVS forum member that I put the 886 back into the mix as the Marantz just didn't cut it. One member actually had a pair of Epik Conquest subs and he told me that he would buy my subs and sell his since the bass sounded that good. I later told him he should sell his Denon receiver and get a Onkyo 886 as that made a dramatic difference in the bass quality in my system. If I have a chance I might take the 886 over to his place so we can compare to his Denon once my comparison is over.

I did run off again to hear another track in the middle of this type up. It sounds really good but I am hoping the Pro calibration brings a fuller, more focused sound, that is my only real gripe so far after about 4 days. Even with that gripe I sat there and listened to the entire track, good stuff.

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post #1191 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 06:50 PM
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Playing with the mid bass correction in pro might be interesting for you as well as listening to both stereo and blu ray or sacd music.


Interested in reading your comments
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post #1192 of 2743 Old 06-03-2011, 07:10 PM
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You make a good point, the mid-bass correction might just clear up the only thing I have a complaint about. Thanks for mentioning it so I remember when I do the Pro calibration.

I have a pretty busy weekend so I decided that tonight would be the run through for a lot of demoing. I don't think I will have a chance to run Audyssey Pro this weekend but I want to get more familiar with the sound anyway before that so maybe next weekend.

I just ran through some familiar demo's on the DTS Demo BD's I have and so far it has been the best of the 4 pre-pro's I have had in the last few months. Much cleaner and the bass is about the best I have heard. I am going to run through some more BD demo's tonight.

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post #1193 of 2743 Old 06-04-2011, 05:19 AM
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For the first time since I got my 5508 about a month ago, I swapped my monopole 120 degree surrounds in place of my tripole 90 degree surrounds and loaded the corresponding Audyssey calibration. Then we played some of the content this configuration is best for - SACD/DVD-Audio hi-res multichannel audio.

Wow, just wow, does my system ever sound incredible. We put in a few things before I loaded Dark Side of the Moon SACD. From opening heartbeat to mumbling blokes at the end, it was a mesmerizing experience.

And I am, also for the first time in my multichannel theater, enjoying CD's. The last time I really enjoyed these albums was when I had an audiophile rig and vinyl. I cannot express adequately how much better everything sounds now and how that has increased my Enjoyment.

Jeff
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

And I am, also for the first time in my multichannel theater, enjoying CD's. The last time I really enjoyed these albums was when I had an audiophile rig and vinyl. I cannot express adequately how much better everything sounds now and how that has increased my Enjoyment.

I'm glad that someone else now understands how I felt a few months ago, and that was just with an Onkyo 3008!! I can't wait to get the 5509, which I really hope will still be Pro capable.
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post #1195 of 2743 Old 06-04-2011, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

I'm glad that someone else now understands how I felt a few months ago, and that was just with an Onkyo 3008!! I can't wait to get the 5509, which I really hope will still be Pro capable.

Have you checked? I seem to remember that the UK 5508 is not Pro ready, only the 80.2....

Jeff
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post #1196 of 2743 Old 06-04-2011, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

For the first time since I got my 5508 about a month ago, I swapped my monopole 120 degree surrounds in place of my tripole 90 degree surrounds and loaded the corresponding Audyssey calibration. Then we played some of the content this configuration is best for - SACD/DVD-Audio hi-res multichannel audio.

Wow, just wow, does my system ever sound incredible. We put in a few things before I loaded Dark Side of the Moon SACD. From opening heartbeat to mumbling blokes at the end, it was a mesmerizing experience.

And I am, also for the first time in my multichannel theater, enjoying CD's. The last time I really enjoyed these albums was when I had an audiophile rig and vinyl. I cannot express adequately how much better everything sounds now and how that has increased my Enjoyment.

Jeff

So do you strongly recommend monopoles over di/tri poles; or just for different kinds media?

Is your system 5.1 or 7.1?
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post #1197 of 2743 Old 06-04-2011, 05:46 AM
 
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Have you checked? I seem to remember that the UK 5508 is not Pro ready, only the 80.2....

Jeff

Really? I didn't hear anything about the UK model not being Pro capable, I thought it would the same regardless of country. Do you remember where you saw that?

If that is correct and will also apply to the 5509, then it looks like I'll have to import one.
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post #1198 of 2743 Old 06-04-2011, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

So do you strongly recommend monopoles over di/tri poles; or just for different kinds media?

Several of us have listened to various content and we feel that dipole/bipole/tripoles at 90 degrees is best for movies, concerts and stereo music; monopoles at 120 do not work well, in our opinion, for that. But "in the band" multichannel music is a completely different story. For that content, the ITU configuration of five identical monopoles is by far the best. The imaging between these identical speakers is uncanny. My only upcoming tweak for this setup is to move them closer to 110 degrees as they are now closer to 130 degrees.
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Is your system 5.1 or 7.1?

7.1, but I stream everything from the Oppo and have the 5508 set up to not create rear surround from 5.1 mc audio.

Jeff
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post #1199 of 2743 Old 06-04-2011, 07:02 AM
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What do you use for the back rears in your 7.1 system?

Where are they placed?
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post #1200 of 2743 Old 06-04-2011, 07:38 AM
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So last night I watched 127 hrs on DVD. This was the first full movie audition after the pro calibration. One distinct difference I noticed is that the front stage (FL + C + FR ) sound more single unit - as if the sound was coming from a single speaker rather than 3 channels. The same with surrounds. Has my soundstage shrunk? I am used to being able to distinguish directional sounds.

Is this how it is supposed to sound?

On the other hand, the bass tuning is absolutely fantastic. Love the sub eq.
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