Onkyo SC5508 Surround processor [No Price Talk] - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Jeff,

Here's a quote from Kris Deering in the Integra DTC-80.1 thread.

Larry

And the post from fitzcaraldo215 replying to the Kris Deering post you quoted ...
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Jeff,



So we agree that both connection methods work?

Larry

Larry,

I got from Chris' post that Denon uses the RS232 and Integra (now) uses ethernet.

Jeff
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Old 11-30-2010, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Larry,

I got from Chris' post that Denon uses the RS232 and Integra (now) uses ethernet.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Thanks.

Larry
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Old 12-01-2010, 03:11 AM
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Hi,

Actually on the 1st (3.4) Pro screen "Product selection" there are 2 different Interfaces available both for Integra or Onkyo. So maybe, and this is only my own guess, that the original "Onkyo Interface" is dedicated to an RS232 connexion.

And for the Pro ethernet calibration I have made, I used "Onkyo Interface 2" which seemed logic with this new 5508.

Now a direct ethernet connexion between the computer and the 5508 didn't work... which was difficult to understand as Pro sees the 5508 through WiFi (n in my case). But as I didn't feel like trying a calibration through WiFi, I (wire) connected everything to the house LAN, and all worked fine...

In my opinion the advantage of this ethernet connexion is that subjectively the transfer of each measuring point data to the computer is slightly quicker than what happened through RS232 with the Denon A100 (but with 9+1 channels iso 11.1 in the Denon case, though the subjectivity).

Anyway I'm going to make some additional tests with Pro today, as I use Curve n°1 and Midrange compensation and I want to try some other options.

Hugo
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Old 12-01-2010, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi,

Actually on the 1st (3.4) Pro screen "Product selection" there are 2 different Interfaces available both for Integra or Onkyo. So maybe, and this is only my own guess, that the original "Onkyo Interface" is dedicated to an RS232 connexion.

And for the Pro ethernet calibration I have made, I used "Onkyo Interface 2" which seemed logic with this new 5508.

Yes, previous models still use RS232, so that interface needed to be kept in Pro.

Quote:


Now a direct ethernet connexion between the computer and the 5508 didn't work... which was difficult to understand as Pro sees the 5508 through WiFi (n in my case). But as I didn't feel like trying a calibration through WiFi, I (wire) connected everything to the house LAN, and all worked fine...

A crossover cable might have worked, but the receiver/processor (and laptop) still needs an IP address. Likely that could be manually assigned, but why do that when it can be done across an existing network infrastructure? I think this is a big step forward in ease of use.
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Old 12-02-2010, 03:45 AM
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Hi,

Yesterday when I wanted to make some further trials of the Pro calibration, for whatever reason I couldn't pass the IP identification stage... as I had the "Communication timeout..." message for the first connexion, then when I try again, nothing anymore, 3.4 seems to be freezed...

I had an e-mail exchange with Audyssey support, they suggested to try to disable DHCP, but that doesn't work... Anabling "control" over Internet (which was initially "off" by default) didn't do anything either...

Now what puzzles me is that I haven't changed anything in the configuration, so I don't understand...

If anyone has an idea...

Hugo
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:23 AM
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Slt Jeff,

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
... Likely that could be manually assigned, but why do that when it can be done across an existing network infrastructure? I think this is a big step forward in ease of use.
Potentially yes... when the non constant/problematic IP access problem will be solved...

Anyway my opinion is that Onkyo holds here something very interesting. I'm even ready to bet (a virtual Champagne bottle) that the next xxx9 Onkyo generation of (at least high end) products will be completely configurable through a graphical interface (GUI).

The Denon A100 I had, did have this capacity, but the implementation of this GUI didn't exactly reflect the logic of the internal one, which ended up as being confusing (in my opinion).

Hugo

PS Jeff if you have any idea of what would possibly restrict this IP access, please don't hesitate. Merci.
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post
Slt Jeff,



Potentially yes... when the non constant/problematic IP access problem will be solved...

Anyway my opinion is that Onkyo holds here something very interesting. I'm even ready to bet (a virtual Champagne bottle) that the next xxx9 Onkyo generation of (at least high end) products will be completely configurable through a graphical interface (GUI).

The Denon A100 I had, did have this capacity, but the implementation of this GUI didn't exactly reflect the logic of the internal one, which ended up as being confusing (in my opinion).

Hugo

PS Jeff if you have any idea of what would possibly restrict this IP access, please don't hesitate. Merci.
I have been loosely following this from my road trip. Have manually assigned IP addresses, submask, etc, been tried? Anybody employ a network traffic analyzer?

Jeff
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

And just what do you think the reason maybe is for those differences in the files? Those differences in the files between a 80.2 & the 5508 firmware, may be all that it needs to prevent or enable it. Last year the 80.1 had the option of Audyssey Pro, and the 5507 did not. Onkyo did something to prevent the 80.1 firmware from being applied to the 5507 to enable Audyssey Pro on a 5507, so it's very likely are also doing it with the 5508 also.

There are many possibilities for the difference in files. It could be something as simple as a display string of "Onkyo" versus "Integra". Applying the 80.1 firmware to the 5507 would not be sufficient to provide Audyssey Pro. A license key from Audyssey is needed, and at least some of the license keys are keyed to the Ethernet MAC address.

Bob
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:08 AM
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Another new 5508 owner, from the uk, reporting a successful run of Audyssey Pro / XT32. I am using the latest firmware, and came across no problems (which was entirely unexpected, I feared the worst )

Done from a laptop over wifi, with the Onkyo connected to the router via ethernet.

CDJay
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retate View Post

There are many possibilities for the difference in files. It could be something as simple as a display string of "Onkyo" versus "Integra". Applying the 80.1 firmware to the 5507 would not be sufficient to provide Audyssey Pro. A license key from Audyssey is needed, and at least some of the license keys are keyed to the Ethernet MAC address.

You seem to forget, the firmware of the 5507 does not support or even enable the option for Audyssey Pro. So it needs a whole lot more than just a license key, it also needs to have support for Audyssey Pro in the firmware itself! And all the license key, are keyed to just that one device itself that the key was purchased for, and can not be used on other devices, even it they are the same brand and model. That is common knowledge for anyone with a Audyssey Pro installers kit.
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

You seem to forget, the firmware of the 5507 does not support or even enable the option for Audyssey Pro. So it needs a whole lot more than just a license key, it also needs to have support for Audyssey Pro in the firmware itself! And all the license key, are keyed to just that one device itself that the key was purchased for, and can not be used on other devices, even it they are the same brand and model. That is common knowledge for anyone with a Audyssey Pro installers kit.

The fact that the 5507 does not support Audyssey Pro does not indicate whether the firmware contains the code to support Audyssey Pro. Do you have a basis supporting you position that support for Audyssey Pro is not in the 5507 firmware?

Having one firmware variant support models wtih different features is a common practice which is being used by Onkyo. For example the TX-NR3008/TX-NR5008/PR-SC5508 are supported by the same firmware download. However, I have seen no indication that the NR5008 or the NR3008 will support Audyssey Pro.

The control of the availability of Audyssey Pro on a model can be based on the code being in the firmware, how the firmware is flashed during the update, the availability of a license key, a jumper on a circuit board, nvram memory with option information that is read by the firmware, etc. One or more methods may be used to control the feature availability.

In regards to your "common knowledge" comment I do have an understanding of how Audyssey license keys work, and I do own an Audyssey Pro kit!

Bob
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retate View Post

The fact that the 5507 does not support Audyssey Pro does not indicate whether the firmware contains the code to support Audyssey Pro. Do you have a basis supporting you position that support for Audyssey Pro is not in the 5507 firmware?

Audyssey Pro capabilities are more than likely actually in the 5507, seeing as how internally all the parts inside of it are the exact same parts as in the Integra 80.1, however the firmware has not been provided to enable it to be used. Plus there is the fact, that even though Onkyo said at their first announcement that the 5507 was Audssyey Pro capable, is that they also later on changed their position on that, and instead was rather adamant about the fact that Audyssey Pro was not going to be enabled on the 5507. As it was a way of differentiating it from the 80.1, which considering they at first said yes and then soon changed it to no, pretty much proves all the needed internal parts are already inside the 5507. But that they can easily control it being as far as being enabled and available for use or not, just by switching on or off within the firmware.



Quote:
Originally Posted by retate View Post

Having one firmware variant support models with different features is a common practice which is being used by Onkyo.

Yes, so the firmware can detect and enable or ignore differences and sometimes can even be used on more than one model, nothing new.


The Onkyo SC885 shared the same exact firmware with the Integra DTC-9.8, and the Onkyo SC886 shared with the Integra DTC-9.9, and all four of those pre-pros even though they were advertised as being Audyssey Pro capable. When they were first initially released they did not support Audyssey Pro yet, until they were provided with the firmware update that enable it to be used. So yes, the option for Audyssey Pro can indeed depend on the firmware being available to enable the function, even though all the necessary parts are already inside of the product.


But! As you posted earlier, one is not always the same for all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by retate View Post

A binary comparison of the firmware for the DHC80.2 and the 5508 show the firmware is very similar, but there are some differences in each of the three files.

Just the fact that there are differences in the two firmwares, on two products that for all practical purposes are the same product but just with a different nameplate on them, and have the same internal parts. Also makes it easy to see how one could have certain additional feature enabled, such as Audyssey Pro, where the other one does not. Even though they both have all the same needed internal parts to do so.
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Old 12-05-2010, 01:34 AM
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Hi CDJay,

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDJayRFU View Post

Another new 5508 owner, from the uk, reporting a successful run of Audyssey Pro / XT32. I am using the latest firmware, and came across no problems (which was entirely unexpected, I feared the worst )

Done from a laptop over wifi, with the Onkyo connected to the router via ethernet.

CDJay

Having done the Pro calibration myself, I'm happy it has worked for you, as due to a license problem I had, Audyssey has made a MAC identification modification to the licensing process.

Now after this initial calibration, today my Pro 3.4 software can't access anymore (IP identification doesn't work) to the 5508.

So if I may ask, can you please try if your Pro 3.4 software can still access your 5508, once you have saved your Pro calibration.

If you can do so, in my case, this should though indicate, that something is wrong in my own Network...

Many thks for your help.

Hugo
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Old 12-06-2010, 05:29 AM
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I've already run measurements twice..... the first run was a basic one with three measurements to test that it worked as planned before doing the run "proper".

I saved settings, and have since run a second more comprehensive calibration, with no issues. Well, I say no issues; I reset the entire unit prior to the second calibration and forgot to turn auto shut down off. So it shut down just as I went to save settings! Still, once I turned the unit on again and restarted the multieq pro software it was fine.

CDJay
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Old 12-06-2010, 02:47 PM
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I am thinking the 5508 but I am torn between which amp(s) to match it
Thinking of Emotiva XPA-2/XPA-5 or Onkyo's PA-MC5500
My speakers are B&W 803 front and Bose Acoustimass for surround
I would be mostly interested for it's performance in music then video and last but not least waf :-)
All constructive ideas are welcome :-)
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Old 12-07-2010, 01:13 AM
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I run a big stack of Ep4000 in the next room, wired through the wall. No noise issues, and all the power I could ever need.

"Unplugging the signal cable is pretty much the ultimate in component isolation. Now if you removed the AC power and it still did it you should look for the little blond girl saying "they're he-re."
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Old 12-07-2010, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezervoud View Post
I am thinking the 5508 but I am torn between which amp(s) to match it
Thinking of Emotiva XPA-2/XPA-5 or Onkyo's PA-MC5500
My speakers are B&W 803 front and Bose Acoustimass for surround
I would be mostly interested for it's performance in music then video and last but not least waf :-)
All constructive ideas are welcome :-)
I would probably pick Emotiva since I think they have better performance.
Also, consider Outlaw which has a 7-channel amp.

I use a Sunfire 7400 but that is much more expensive.

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Old 12-07-2010, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I would probably pick Emotiva since I think they have better performance.
Also, consider Outlaw which has a 7-channel amp.

I use a Sunfire 7400 but that is much more expensive.

- Rich
Thank you RichB, I was considering the combo XPA-2/XPA-5 so I can drive better the B&W rather than a 7-channel amp
If I would go to the 7-channel, I think that overall, the Onkyo bundle would be a better choice (waf :-) )
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Old 12-07-2010, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ezervoud View Post
Thank you RichB, I was considering the combo XPA-2/XPA-5 so I can drive better the B&W rather than a 7-channel amp
If I would go to the 7-channel, I think that overall, the Onkyo bundle would be a better choice (waf :-) )
I understand. I am not sure about the power output of the Onkyo since they rate it at 1Khz and not 20 to 20.

For power the outlaw is a great bargin:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7700.html

For looks, Onkyo.

For bang for the buck: Emotiva.

Good luck,

- Rich

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Old 12-07-2010, 07:45 AM
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Hi CDJay,

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDJayRFU View Post
I've already run measurements twice..... the first run was a basic one with three measurements to test that it worked as planned before doing the run "proper".

I saved settings, and have since run a second more comprehensive calibration, with no issues. Well, I say no issues; I reset the entire unit prior to the second calibration and forgot to turn auto shut down off. So it shut down just as I went to save settings! Still, once I turned the unit on again and restarted the multieq pro software it was fine.

CDJay
Thanks for your feedback.

In fact that was precisely my point. I think that once Pro is saved, there is some form of (internal to 5508) blockade which prevents another access by Pro.

It's even "logic" when you think of it, as an (Audyssey) Pro calibration is meant to be "definitive"... and a "reset" process, also a common fact in an (Audyssey) Pro calibration made by a Professional... which obviously is not the case when a private user does this (Audyssey) Pro calibration...

I'm though going to reset my unit and try to make another Pro attempt... Just have to find some time now.

Hugo
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezervoud View Post

I am thinking the 5508 but I am torn between which amp(s) to match it
Thinking of Emotiva XPA-2/XPA-5 or Onkyo's PA-MC5500
My speakers are B&W 803 front and Bose Acoustimass for surround
I would be mostly interested for it's performance in music then video and last but not least waf :-)
All constructive ideas are welcome :-)

I'm running a 5507p/Emotiva combo, with a pair of XPA-1's driving L & R, and an XPA-5 driving the rest of the channels. The XPA-1's might be a little over kill, but I'll never admit it Otherwise I love it so far!
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

It's even "logic" when you think of it, as an (Audyssey) Pro calibration is meant to be "definitive"...

I do not regard any calibration as "definitive" since changes in system and room always need to be accommodated.

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Old 12-07-2010, 12:03 PM
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Hi Kal,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I do not regard any calibration as "definitive" since changes in system and room always need to be accommodated.

What I meant above is that when a Professional does an Audyssey calibration, his work (calibration) is meant to be for "some" time... before he has to return for whatever reason... Now when he's back, a total reset doesn't make any harm either to him or to the 5508...

But as a private (Audyssey) Pro user, do I agree with that? Definitely: NO.

Hugo
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Old 12-07-2010, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi Kal,



What I meant above is that when a Professional does an Audyssey calibration, his work (calibration) is meant to be for "some" time... before he has to return for whatever reason... Now when he's back, a total reset doesn't make any harm either to him or to the 5508...

But as a private (Audyssey) Pro user, do I agree with that? Definitely: NO.

Hugo

In that a professional installer gets paid for each visit and calibration, the consumer should hope that it is for "some" time. But as a private Pro owner myself, it is an investment in time only to redo the calibration if something changes. Also, if the Audyssey measurement data file was saved, one can reload that and try different crossovers and/or target curve tweaks.

But you knew that, n'est-ce pas?

Jeff
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Old 12-07-2010, 01:37 PM
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RichB and x86, thank you very much for your responses
Elsewhere, I am told that Onkyo is not as a good performer in music as Denon or Pioneer
What is your opinion on that, please, does it hold any water or it's just pure bs?
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Old 12-07-2010, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I understand. I am not sure about the power output of the Onkyo since they rate it at 1Khz and not 20 to 20.

For power the outlaw is a great bargin:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7700.html

For looks, Onkyo.

For bang for the buck: Emotiva.

Good luck,

- Rich

The only problem I see with either Outlaw or Emotiva for ezervoud, is that he is located in Athens, Greece. So I would imagine shipping costs for something like a heavy multichannel external power amp to Greece from the US, may very well wipe out any cost savings in buying either of those brands.
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Old 12-07-2010, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezervoud View Post

RichB and x86, thank you very much for your responses
Elsewhere, I am told that Onkyo is not as a good performer in music as Denon or Pioneer
What is your opinion on that, please, does it hold any water or it's just pure bs?

I have no first hand experience with either.
I have heard good things about the Emotiva and the price is right.

- Rich

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Old 12-07-2010, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I have no first hand experience with either.
I have heard good things about the Emotiva and the price is right.

- Rich

We have now come full circuit. Each of the major brands (and Emotiva) have criticized and praised with respect to another.

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Old 12-08-2010, 01:35 AM
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The 'have to reset to recalibrate' pro issue seems very backward to me.

The customer worked his way through the manual, finally got everything set up and working, all his sources are FINALLY working as intended, the ISF guy just left after calibrating his video processor, and the doorbell rings. The Audyssey installer stands smiling with his hardcase at the doorstep. Finally the last piece of the puzzle! The Audio. the cool bits. Can you see where this is going?
The Adyssey installer first switch off the processor. The client watch with dread as the installer presses two buttons on the front panel as he turns the unit on, and screams in frustration just as the display flashes three times and all his time, effort an money is wiped off the face of the earth and into cyberspace... I guess there'll be no tip for that installer that night....

"Unplugging the signal cable is pretty much the ultimate in component isolation. Now if you removed the AC power and it still did it you should look for the little blond girl saying "they're he-re."
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