Floor Standing Speaker- separate 8" woofers and 6.5" tweeter - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 72 Old 08-12-2010, 10:12 PM
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I'm astounded that your goal is plump sounding, low-level playack, and you seem to want more power. You require milliwatts, yet ask for someone to bless your descision to spend precious funds on cheap, bottom-of-the line amplifiers.

You love the Klipsch sub. Two subs can certainly smooth out and accentuate the bass, especially in the 30-60hz range, assuming you can get the phase correct. In fact, if you can relegate the HSU to infrasonics, you might get exactly what you are looking for - deep rumble, punchy midbass and clean mains reproduction, all by simply giving Klipsch the benefit of the doubt and spending ~$120 on their OEM amplifier.

Or, sod all that and buy that Nady. Slap a piece of plywood over that hole in your Klipsch and tap a pair of banana jacks and go for it.

Just do *something*.
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post #62 of 72 Old 08-13-2010, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by new04quest View Post

I might be missing something. Can you point me to a useful suggestion? Most of everything that suggested to me here are either things that I tried in my previous HT or this current HT. I'm really fighting with my odd room size. It is in oversized room with wall on the right (mostly windows), wall in front (fireplace on the right) and the rear/left are open to the kitchen and entry way. The only place I can place the speakers are the ceiling, front wall and right wall. The bass trap panels I'm trying to get can be view here: BT-6000 MEGA BASS TRAP 48"x24"x6" Is there bass trap panels with similar price you want to suggest?

Oh you're definitely missing something.

These guys have told you that the newer AVRs that they have suggested have features that your's does not, that will improve your sound.

The AVR you have is plenty powerful so an outboard amplifer will not gain you anything with your speakers. They are so efficient that your AVR is actually overkill already. You do not need power you need EQ and your subwoofer fixed.
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post #63 of 72 Old 08-13-2010, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by new04quest View Post

I might be missing something. Can you point me to a useful suggestion? Most of everything that suggested to me here are either things that I tried in my previous HT or this current HT. I'm really fighting with my odd room size. It is in oversized room with wall on the right (mostly windows), wall in front (fireplace on the right) and the rear/left are open to the kitchen and entry way. The only place I can place the speakers are the ceiling, front wall and right wall. The bass trap panels I'm trying to get can be view here: BT-6000 MEGA BASS TRAP 48"x24"x6" Is there bass trap panels with similar price you want to suggest?

no, there's nothing wrong with that trap... it's the way you plan on using that trap that turns it into a room divider... it will provide zero assistance with bass control the way you plan on using it, but you've been told that multiple times by people who are MUCH brighter than i and who are MUCH better versed in acoustics than i...

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Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Good luck on trying to get good sound out of your poor audio environment. I feel sorry for you, if your "other-half" thinks that any Bose multi-channel speaker system sounds great. She must have a "tin" ear (or actually believes the advertising hype).

to be completely honest, in that room, the bose system would likely sound as good as what he has now... it's entirely possible that it would actually sound better, given the response curve of the average bose system...

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Originally Posted by Clmrt View Post

I'm astounded that your goal is plump sounding, low-level playack, and you seem to want more power. You require milliwatts, yet ask for someone to bless your descision to spend precious funds on cheap, bottom-of-the line amplifiers.

You love the Klipsch sub. Two subs can certainly smooth out and accentuate the bass, especially in the 30-60hz range, assuming you can get the phase correct. In fact, if you can relegate the HSU to infrasonics, you might get exactly what you are looking for - deep rumble, punchy midbass and clean mains reproduction, all by simply giving Klipsch the benefit of the doubt and spending ~$120 on their OEM amplifier.

yes, one would think that would be rather obvious by now, wouldn't one?

but i suppose if he keeps asking the same question over and over, some fool will happen along in this thread and agree with him, and he will have the validation he is seeking...

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Originally Posted by Easyaspie View Post

Oh you're definitely missing something.

These guys have told you that the newer AVRs that they have suggested have features that your's does not, that will improve your sound.

The AVR you have is plenty powerful so an outboard amplifer will not gain you anything with your speakers. They are so efficient that your AVR is actually overkill already. You do not need power you need EQ and your subwoofer fixed.



he could drive those speakers very well with a 10 watt tube amp... which, given the speakers in question, might actually produce some pleasing results, assuming the multitudes of other problems he has are corrected first...

the first thing he needs to realize is that he is never going to get "good" sound given the constraints he has to work with... the tile floor alone is enough to eliminate any possibility of that happening, and that's only one of many things that would have to be "corrected" in order to get "good" sound...

the second thing he needs to realize is that if he listens to the advice that has been given to him (both in this thread and in his "bass trap" thread), he will get as much as he can get out of the constraints he has to work with, and he will get "acceptable" sound...

those two realizations would go a long way to solving his "problems"...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #64 of 72 Old 08-13-2010, 07:58 AM
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It is so difficult sometimes isn't it?
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post #65 of 72 Old 08-13-2010, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

new04quest -- The Dayton SA240 or their SA240-B amps (or the HPSA500) are not BASH amps, so why did you disregard them "out-of-hand" (assuming you are anti-BASH inclined)? You can build an external enclosure for them, if they won't fit into the Sub-10.

Your abject refusal to even consider our recommendations (as ccotenj remarked) implies that you have made up your mind (even though you insist on asking for help). Consequently there is no point in making any further recommendations.

Good luck on trying to get good sound out of your poor audio environment. I feel sorry for you, if your "other-half" thinks that any Bose multi-channel speaker system sounds great. She must have a "tin" ear (or actually believes the advertising hype).

I hope that you didn't think I ignore suggestions and recommendations in this thread. I considered it and looked into it carefully. As I mentioned, the subwoofer plate amplifiers you suggested are not the right size for Klipsch Sub-10 enclosure. I am not anti-Bash amplifier either. May I add more comments, the Bash amp in my HSU MK3 VTF-2 is working wonderfully and it ponds whoever sit next to it too death. And wait- the Bash amp in my Polk subwoofer last forever. I love Bash amps in HSU and Polk. For whatever reason, Bash decided to go-green with the solder on Sub-10 Bash amplifier. The cold solder joints are the root cause of the failure in sub-10 Bash amp. If it hasn’t dies on me, I would have liked the Bash amp in sub-10 too.

Unfortunately, I cannot make my wife like the Klipsch and HSU. She listens to my Klipsch and HSU, and she still like her Bose speakers better. One thing I notices, most of her lady friends are the same way. They do not like a lot of basses..!
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post #66 of 72 Old 08-13-2010, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clmrt View Post

In fact, if you can relegate the HSU to infrasonics, you might get exactly what you are looking for - deep rumble, punchy midbass and clean mains reproduction, all by simply giving Klipsch the benefit of the doubt and spending ~$120 on their OEM amplifier.

Or, sod all that and buy that Nady. Slap a piece of plywood over that hole in your Klipsch and tap a pair of banana jacks and go for it.

Just do *something*.

You must have misunderstood me. It is not $120 for a new OEM Sub-10 Bash amp. It is $120 plus sipping to send the bad amp to Klipsch so they can to look at it. Who know how much more they'll charge to repair it?

I thought that an external amp will give me more flexibility than the wrong size plate amp. I can easily solder the subwoofer wires to speaker posts inside the enclosure, and I can leave the Bash heat sink on the enclosure.
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post #67 of 72 Old 08-13-2010, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post



he could drive those speakers very well with a 10 watt tube amp... which, given the speakers in question, might actually produce some pleasing results, assuming the multitudes of other problems he has are corrected first...

the first thing he needs to realize is that he is never going to get "good" sound given the constraints he has to work with... the tile floor alone is enough to eliminate any possibility of that happening, and that's only one of many things that would have to be "corrected" in order to get "good" sound...

the second thing he needs to realize is that if he listens to the advice that has been given to him (both in this thread and in his "bass trap" thread), he will get as much as he can get out of the constraints he has to work with, and he will get "acceptable" sound...

those two realizations would go a long way to solving his "problems"...

With all that said- Do you own these two amps: Nady 3WA-1700 Professional Amplifier and Stellar Labs SLP-800S. I'm just tried to get some feedback from its owner. If they have used it and it is not good, I'll look for some other cheap alternative..!

As far as my concern, getting the entire pros and cons from this thread is priceless. I haven't spent a penny, and I got most of the cons out the way. Anyway, thanks.
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post #68 of 72 Old 08-13-2010, 05:34 PM
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Sorry for misunderstanding.
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post #69 of 72 Old 08-15-2010, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have quite bit of break from my kids this weekend to play around with my HT. With just walls at the front and right side, and the rear and left sides being wide open, it is very tough to get a single subwoofer to work properly. The HSU is placed at the rear end of the right side sofa. Whoever lucky enough to seat in the sofa next to it will always get blast (in a good way) by HSU. The unlucky person seating in the middle or left seats, get very little goodies (bass). I decided to borrow my friend subwoofer (it is retail subwoofer). It is placed the opposite of HSU, which is front left. With two subwoofers combination, everyone is happy. It seems that I need another subwoofer more than anything else. I also decided not to use the front JBL speakers on the ceiling as second main speaker. I decided to use the surround back option of Pioneer Elite options to bi-amp the Klipsch F-3 woofers and the tweeters get all the power from the front left/right of Pioneer Elite options by itself. The F-3 feels stronger and cleaner. It packs quite of bass too.

I wish that I have another wall on the left. The subwoofers would be centering the left and right walls, which is what I had in my previous home theater. The lesser Polk and Klipsch subwoofers were still doing fine there because of proper room and subwoofers placements. I wish that I have enough money for another HSU. It would be perfect. HSU is very powerful subwoofer, but it cannot spread out evenly in this odd room. It ponds the person next to it to death, and it left the person away from it breathing for goodies.

Since I don’t have the budget for another VTF-2 from HSU, I’m searching for a used retailer subwoofer for now. I might not fix the sub-10. I don’t think that it has enough volume to move enough air in this room.
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post #70 of 72 Old 08-16-2010, 05:15 AM
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Can you rotate the entire HT to try another perspective? I know you have that little alcove that fits the TV and all, but it kills the front soundstage and that speaker in front of the fireplace looks really bad.

Use the alcove for your equipment rack position if possible, or a mini-bar.
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post #71 of 72 Old 08-16-2010, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clmrt View Post

Can you rotate the entire HT to try another perspective? I know you have that little alcove that fits the TV and all, but it kills the front soundstage and that speaker in front of the fireplace looks really bad.

Use the alcove for your equipment rack position if possible, or a mini-bar.

I'm not sure I have place for the 56" HDTV, power surge strips and internet adaptor anywhere other than the build-in box. The prewired for ceiling speakers are there, and most component (PS3, HD media player, DirecTV HD/DVR, etc) are connects to internet adapter too. It will be tough to hide or rewire gazillion of wires. I cannot stick the TV out too far from the front wall either. It'll be too close to the seating area. I cannot move the right sofa back either because it will block the back patio double French doors. There is no way I can place anything in front of the right wall either, because it is 90% dual pane glass windows. The best I can do is trying to make it work with the existing build-in box..!

As Tulpa suggested, I moved the F-3 speakers closer toward the TV and tilted roughly 45 degrees toward the center seats. The hi/mid are superb at all seating areas. The bass is superb by the right seating area, but it is lack at half left center/left seating areas. As I mentioned in my previous message, it seems to work better with two subwoofers at opposite side placements. Since I cannot afford another goodie (12” HSU), I’m searching for a cheap used subwoofer for now.
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post #72 of 72 Old 08-20-2010, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I finally found a used 12" Aperion S-12 with 250W RMS and 20MHz-180MHz frequency response to pair with the HSU MK3. I got it for very good deal from Craigslist. It is in a very nice cherry enclosure and it is in great conditions too. I don't know much about it, but the enclosure feel solid and the driver look solid too. It is 60 plus pounds. It took me a while to calibrate the Pioneer Elite to synchronize these subwoofers with the rest of the speakers. The final result is tight and clear basses. It rattles the French doors and bathroom door in the hallway badly. I have to lower down the gain on both subwoofers dramatically. It is not the best placements, but I do not have any other choice in this HT/great room. I tried centers HSU behind the back seats and Aperion in front the HDTV stand. It is the best locations, but HSU would exposes amp, ports and cables stick out to my kid play areas. It wouldn't work. I have to settle with lesser desired locations which is rear right and front left locations.

When there is a doubt, add another subwoofer. It solves a lot of problems. Oh, I really wish that I have a man cave to try the full potential of these subwoofers. I was going to blast it earlier but I’m afraid that the glass French doors might not be able to handle the HSU next to it.







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