"Official" Yamaha RX-A1000/RX-A2000/RX-A3000 thread - Page 104 - AVS Forum
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post #3091 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Erickson00 View Post

Hi all,

I really like my A2000, but for some reason I cannot get my deck speakers to work. I know digital content is not available in separate zones, but it IS supposed to work when in Party mode. The problem is, I can't get any sound out of these outdoor speakers when party mode is turned on. They are connected to the correct section on the AVR (zone 2). is there something special I need to do while running YPAO, or any settings I need to be aware of, to make this work? Thanks in advance!!

This would be that special something you most likely forgot to do during the YPAO setup:

Go into your YPAO surround settings. Speaker LAYOUT setting:

Go to Manual SETUP

Make SURE that you are using the correct speaker layout.

If you do not know what this is it's on Page 18 of the manual.

For you setup 7.1-channel speaker layout + Zone2 (7 speakers (in main zone) + subwoofer (in main zone) + front speakers (in secondary zone)
the manual tells you to assign a speaker configuration of:
7ch + 1ZONE


If you have a zone 3 use: 7ch + 2ZONE

As long as you have this setting and the speaker hooked up correctly you will be fine.
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post #3092 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbhpi View Post

Party Zone is enabled? RX-A2000 OM 122

see above quote... ensure Speaker configuration is correct...
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post #3093 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by batt50 View Post

run ypao. then set all speakers to small. i guarantee you ypao will set the rc-30's to large. make sure the crossover is all the way up on your sub. after ypao, set the crossover to 80 on the sub and the receiver.

I have a similar setup - setting all to small and then cranking my subs worked.

Also you can +/- treble and bass after the fact to really dial the bass in to where you can either shake the house or just the room :-)
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post #3094 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

I doubt any update is going to add full [CinemaDSP] processing for DTS-HD MA bitstream, but you could decode in the BD player instead of the receiver.

And I do still "insist on" decoding DST-HDMA in my new BD player . . . we'll see how I feel in a couple of months!

However, I have no DTS-HDMA 7.1 BDs, So I would be interested to know if there is a perceived difference between an in-player DTS-HDMA 7.1 to LPCM decode plus CinemaDSP applied in the AVR, versus a (lossy) DTS decode and CinemaDSP application both accomplished in the AVR. [What complicates things is that everything I've seen regarding CinemaDSP suggests it uses only a 5.x (downmix?) as the input source. ]

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post #3095 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

From the update PDF:

This firmware includes the following improvements
1. Adds Pandora Internet Radio Service
2. Adds Napster Online music service
3. Improves contents playback stability

It also includes the radio tuner fix. I doubt any update is going to add full processing for DTS-HD MA bitstream, but you could decode in the BD player instead of the receiver.

I can't find Pandora after the upgrade. Where is it?
Any suggestions?

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post #3096 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Yamadr6 View Post

I can't find Pandora after the upgrade. Where is it?
Any suggestions?

RTFM
go into the OSD menu, select Input, scroll thru the options
or use the web browser UI.
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post #3097 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bustamelon View Post


RTFM
go into the OSD menu, select Input, scroll thru the options
or use the web browser UI.

Thanks,
I will try it as soon as I get home tonight.

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post #3098 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 12:00 PM
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I have another question that maybe someone could answer.

When loud commercials come on, this system should adjust the volume automatically. I believe is called dynamic volume control. Is there an option that has to be enabled to take advantage of this feature?
If yes, how do I go about accomplishing this?
Does it work well?

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post #3099 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Yamadr6 View Post

I have another question that maybe someone could answer.

When loud commercials come on, this system should adjust the volume automatically. I believe is called dynamic volume control. Is there an option that has to be enabled to take advantage of this feature?
If yes, how do I go about accomplishing this?
Does it work well?

depends - go into your sound settings

You will see dynamic range: which select the dynamic range adjustment method for Dolby Digital and DTS playback.

Page 115 in the manual.

MAX - means it's off
STD - does the adjustments for normal TV viewing (probably want to set this to a scene and not have it on for movies)
MIN/AUTO - (MIN) Sets the dynamic range suitable for low volume or a quite environment, such as at night, for bitstream signals except for Dolby TrueHD signals. (AUTO) Adjusts the dynamic range for Dolby TrueHD signals based on input signal information.


If your about to ask a question - I would always recommended typing it in the search bar on the manual (easy with PDFs) it almost always brings up something that's helpful.
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post #3100 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 12:20 PM
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There's not really a volume levelling option for loud commercials. Dynamic range reduction is going to have a big impact on everything, not just the commercials. By far the best solution for commercials is never to watch them. Use a DVR and skip over them.
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post #3101 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 12:26 PM
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There's actually another setting, like he said, called (I think) dynamic volume control, but that too doesn't really work like you'd want it to for loud commercials. What it does is basically *compress* the LFE effects, so that if you're watching a movie late at night at low volume, it gives the LFEs a boost so that you can hear them in spite of the low overall volume. If I understand it correctly.
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post #3102 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 12:45 PM
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I think the OP was probably looking for something similar to Dolby Volume or Audyssey Dynamic Volume, and Yamaha have no direct equivalent. Frankly I'd like to see them license the new Dolby stuff (Dolby Volume and PLIIz) as well as the upcoming DTS Neo:X, instead of only offering their proprietary processing. I can't believe it will add a lot to their costs.
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post #3103 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

You are quite correct and that is why I follow this thread. The store had no Aventage units and talked me into trying the top RX-V unit. I was hopeful, it came pretty close to meeting my wants, which are different than my needs, and one of my problems with some things that causes me to spend more than I need to.

Based on the review at hometheater.com, the 2000 looks to make decent power and received a favorable review. They did note something I also noted with the 867:

" This called my attention to one of the otherwise excellent remote's few flaws: It can select Dolby Pro Logic II only with a Sur Decode button located under the remote's flip-down bottom panel. The top of the remote devotes no fewer than four buttons (Movie, Classical, Live Club, Entertainment) to cycling among DSP junk modes."


Maybe I did not spend enough time on those but I found little use for them. Maybe someone can clarify what benefits these modes have since I probably did not use them for the intended purpose?

There are discrete remote codes for all the DSP stuff. To each their own, but IMHO Yamaha does first rate Soundfields going back to the original research and recording done back when they designed their first DSP unit the DSP-1 in 1986 or so.

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post #3104 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Kieran View Post


While I would say that Squishy slightly exaggerated when he said that cascading LPFs for your sub will "completely kill just about any and all meaningful bass output" he is correct that it's a really bad idea.

You should leave your sub's adjustable LPF at it's highest setting (hopefully somewhere north of 150Hz) and then set (or let YPAO set) the Yamaha AVR's filter to whatever you like (80Hz is a good starting point).

If you set both filters to 80Hz you will get what I've already referred to as "cascading filters". This can very likely (though not definitely) result in a phase flip of your bass signal (what's left of it) which in and of itself is a bad thing (though usually fixable if your sub has a phase adjustment knob/toggle). What also will happen is you will at least double the drop-off slope of the low pass filter (e.g. from -18dB/octave to -36dB/octave) and your effective "cutt-off frequency" will decrease from 80Hz (or where ever you set it) to something significantly lower (i.e. to 70~60Hz maybe... it depends on the filters that are overlapping and their characteristics). Meanwhile, the HIGH-pass portion of your yamaha's cross-over network will remain unaffected (e.g. fc=80Hz, -18dB/octave). This will result in a huge hole in your high-bass region (using the example numbers I've just made up, the hole would be roughly from 70-80Hz). So in theory, you could still have a significant amount of bass that's very audible (from ~70Hz down to the lower limit of your sub) but you'd have a really gaping hole right around your intended cross-over point. This would explain why you still hear some bass from your system. If you can bypass your sub's own LPF (my Energy sub has a bypass input) that's best. If not, set the sub's LPF as high as it will go to avoid the two filters overlapping at all.

HTH...


Now that sounds better. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm gonna add another sub (energy, what a coincidence) so I will definitely try that approach.

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post #3105 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by batt50 View Post

Now that sounds better. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm gonna add another sub (energy, what a coincidence) so I will definitely try that approach.

One sub or two, the first thing you should do tonight when you get home is turn that LPF knob on your current sub all the way up!



EDIT: ... or use the x-over bypass input if your sub has one.

EDIT2: Do you have a HT calibration disc with audio test tones on it (e.g. Avia or Video Essentials?) Most of them have a sine-wave sweep track that will sweep from <20Hz all the way up to 20,000Hz. That combined with an SPL meter will give you a real rough idea of where any peaks & valleys are in your system's audio performance. With an SPL meter in hand, and your ears, with the sweep tone playing, you should be able to see & hear the big dip in bass right around your crossover point.

If you had run YPAO with the sub's LPF set at 80, it would have tried to account for this & probably add some gain around that audio region. But you said you had the LPF turned up for YPAO and then turned it back down after. This is good, because all you have to do now is turn it back up. No need to re-run YPAO.

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post #3106 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowghost View Post

. . . To each their own, but IMHO Yamaha does first rate Soundfields going back to the original research and recording done back when they designed their first DSP unit the DSP-1 in 1986 or so.

I'm inclined to agree: Around 1990, I purchased my first DSP equipped Yamaha surround processor, the DSP-100U, which I believe was the third consumer model, and the first intended for the "mass market". My three home systems are all equipped with a Front Presence speaker pair, and I certainly 'consider/evaluate' whether each new movie or CD benefits (IMO) from a judicious addition of CinemaDSP.

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post #3107 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Gary, I think you know where I am coming from. Let me start out by saying I returned my 867 yesterday. It was not without some regret because I really liked how stupid easy it was to use and the passthrough and the remote was really cool and etc. I did this because I was not happy with the power output in a certain DVD I use for testing. I will say I adjusted a few parameters on the 867 and was able to turn it up all the way to +6db without it shutting down. However, the sound as before got muddy/sloppy as it approached 0db.

So the day before yesterday I removed it and put the Pioneer VSX-23TXH back in. It retained all the settings from before. I cranked it to +5db and it was just loud and clear and way louder. I am not so sure this is the difference in 15watts or the class of amplifier but a clearly audible difference.

Observations of the Yamaha, very nice quality unit. Good sound easy setup. If you are not a party idiot like me it will do all you need. My wife could do anything she wanted with the unit due to the standby passthrough and stupid easy scene buttons. I almost want to go back to the store and buy that unit for cheaper than I paid for it as an open box but.......

However it falls on it's face next to my Pio unit it was to replace. It does not have the power as I clearly saw on the top end where it struggled. It does not have the THX or Nueral (sp) options that really sound good to me, and it weighs about 5lbs less than my PIO. Call me old school but that has always meant something to me and I have been in the receiver game since 1981. Have a look, Yamaha on top:



I do not want anybody to get me wrong, the 867 was a very nice, capable unit. I just had the unfortunate luck to have a Pio Elite model before this and that is a hard act to follow. Sadly the wife has hated the 1.3 non-passthrough non-ease of use of the Pio from day one. Now as I look more, I see Onkyo is going to come out with their new units with the Marvel chip that supports even higher than 1080P. Where does it end? Guess I'll sit on the Pio and watch. Don't need another dinosaur in 1 year. I am getting tired of this crap.

Anyway, another comparison pic of the Pio that I am keeping for now.

Thanks for all the input from you Yamaha owners here. I was looking to go to this manufacturer and that is why I asked for input at high volumes. I did not need advice on how loud I should listen to AVRs that cost more than $500 but thanks for that too. I did like the 867 a lot. Glad I got to test it out. I am sure the Aventage units are good ones as well. Again, the 867 is a very capable unit for most apps. My app is in a 20'x24' room with a 6.1 setup and 3 Polk subs. Matter of fact, the speakers are all Polk monitor series except the rears which are wired for impedence making them one speaker. For now the Elite is staying despite it's user non-friendliness.

So let me get this straight, your Comparing a VSX 23 with a MSRP of $1000.00 and 110W x 7 to a Yamaha RX-V867 thats MSRP is 899.99 with 95W x 7 .

Hey i'm not trying to start a war here. Its a huge difference . I've own alot of pioneers and yamahas. I like them the same. But the fact remains the ICE AMP provides nothing more over another receiver with the same wattage specs .

A RX-A1000 is what you should be comparing that VSX-23 too and the A1000 is 5 Watts less a channel.

That pioneer VSX-23 is a good AVR. I own one and liked it for the 6 months I own it.
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post #3108 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Goingpoor View Post

So let me get this straight, your Comparing a VSX 23 with a MSRP of $1000.00 and 110W x 7 to a Yamaha RX-V867 thats MSRP is 899.99 with 95W x 7 .

Hey i'm not trying to start a war here. Its a huge difference . I've own alot of pioneers and yamahas. I like them the same. But the fact remains the ICE AMP provides nothing more over another receiver with the same wattage specs .

A RX-A1000 is what you should be comparing that VSX-23 too and the A1000 is 5 Watts less a channel.

That pioneer VSX-23 is a good AVR. I own one and liked it for the 6 months I own it.

I believe I covered this in post #3087 but thanks. I only posted the pics because I had them and wanted to explain why I returned the 867 which I thought was a fine unit. It was very close to being a keeper so I did not want anyone to get the impression I did not like the AVR. It is a solid performer, I just was not about to step down in db although I probably ought to.

BTW, the VSX-23 does not have an ICE amp. It uses an advanced direct energy one per Pio lingo. (Or perhaps that is an ICE amp then because it sure does not get as hot as the 867 did. IDK)

FWIW my Pioneer Elite has a bunch of junk DSP modes I never use as well. However, I use the crap out of my THX, Neo, and Neural settings because my cable Co broadcasts in the lowest they can get by with as far as sound. My HBO and Skinamax channels come on low def pic with stereo signal except for 2 HD channels. That stuff needs help.
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post #3109 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran View Post

One sub or two, the first thing you should do tonight when you get home is turn that LPF knob on your current sub all the way up!



EDIT: ... or use the x-over bypass input if your sub has one.

EDIT2: Do you have a HT calibration disc with audio test tones on it (e.g. Avia or Video Essentials?) Most of them have a sine-wave sweep track that will sweep from <20Hz all the way up to 20,000Hz. That combined with an SPL meter will give you a real rough idea of where any peaks & valleys are in your system's audio performance. With an SPL meter in hand, and your ears, with the sweep tone playing, you should be able to see & hear the big dip in bass right around your crossover point.

If you had run YPAO with the sub's LPF set at 80, it would have tried to account for this & probably add some gain around that audio region. But you said you had the LPF turned up for YPAO and then turned it back down after. This is good, because all you have to do now is turn it back up. No need to re-run YPAO.


thanks for the info. i will definitely try it tomorrow. hopefully, the OP got to read these instructions also.

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post #3110 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 08:46 PM
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Can I hook up another 7.1 amp to one of the HDMI outs on the Yamaha RX-A2000? I want to have 7.1 surround sound on my back porch (with an outside monitor) but use the PS3 Slim or DirecTV I have in the living room hooked to the A2000. That way guests can go outside and smoke while watching a movie and not miss anything.
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post #3111 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 09:16 PM
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mike2cents look up yamaha advanteage series receivers at newegg

i got the 800 there with a very good deal. my room isnt big enough and i
dont have enough money for the higher models.
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post #3112 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaburns View Post

Can I hook up another 7.1 amp to one of the HDMI outs on the Yamaha RX-A2000? I want to have 7.1 surround sound on my back porch (with an outside monitor) but use the PS3 Slim or DirecTV I have in the living room hooked to the A2000. That way guests can go outside and smoke while watching a movie and not miss anything.

jaburns, that is an excellent question I have pondered myself. I meant to test this while I had the 867 here along with my VSX-23. I had all the cables to test but not the extra speakers and extra TV on hand in addition to what is running. I think you can for sure use the pre-outs to inputs to another AVR for the sound. Not sure if the second HDMI out will send the audio along with the video for that unit to do it's own sound processing since it is my understanding, right or wrong, that the AVR will strip the sound out and only output the video via HDMI out when the unit is on. Curious for the answer to this.

I applaud your graciousness as a host on this one.
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post #3113 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROSSINFLORIDA View Post

mike2cents look up yamaha advanteage series receivers at newegg

i got the 800 there with a very good deal. my room isnt big enough and i
dont have enough money for the higher models.

Thanks Ross. Unfortunately I am among the lucky folks that pay sales tax on egg. At 9.5% that is to be considered. I got my 867 out the door locally for less than what I have ever seen the sale price for on egg. Your 800 should serve you very well.

On a separate note, I have noticed that Yamaha and Pioneer alike have little/less maneuver room in MSRP compared to Onkyo at retailers. I find this strange in this economy but hey any comments are welcome. I would really like to get a good deal on a 2k or 3k but don't see anyone working with it right now. In 4 months these will be last years models. Onkyo is already working this but hey, they have clicking problems and whatnot.
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post #3114 of 8872 Old 03-15-2011, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Thanks Ross. Unfortunately I am among the lucky folks that pay sales tax on egg. At 9.5% that is to be considered. I got my 867 out the door locally for less than what I have ever seen the sale price for on egg. Your 800 should serve you very well.

On a separate note, I have noticed that Yamaha and Pioneer alike have little/less maneuver room in MSRP compared to Onkyo at retailers. I find this strange in this economy but hey any comments are welcome. I would really like to get a good deal on a 2k or 3k but don't see anyone working with it right now. In 4 months these will be last years models. Onkyo is already working this but hey, they have clicking problems and whatnot.

you can also try electronics expo. coupon code "presidents". they are also authorized dealers. sales tax for new jersey only afaik.

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post #3115 of 8872 Old 03-16-2011, 12:46 AM
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mike i almost lost it when you said you might go back to store and re-buy the unit you had just returned there. my ex friend used to do that to just about everything he ever bought in electronics.


mr neuro has already ripped me a new on here for my thoughts on the music industry even though i support tons of bands by going their concerts and buying their t shirts etc.

if mr neuro found out what my ex friend did all the time he would exterminate him.

i think a lot of the stores are charging a restocking fee for most electronics items that are returned. im not sure if its done at anytime you return item or just if its after 30 days.


i just saw machete so that would be something to consider huh?

lol
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post #3116 of 8872 Old 03-16-2011, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

jaburns, that is an excellent question I have pondered myself.
Not sure if the second HDMI out will send the audio along with the video for that unit to do it's own sound processing since it is my understanding, right or wrong, that the AVR will strip the sound out and only output the video via HDMI out when the unit is on. Curious for the answer to this.
.

It *should* work IMHO - the HDMI settings (in the RX-A3000, presumably also the 2000) have the option to either use the amp for HDMI audio or pass it through to the TV (HDMI out) for either/both HDMI outputs
Hm, but perhaps it downmixes the HDMI audio out to 2ch stereo?
In which case you would have to use one of the pseudo dolby-type surround effects on the 2nd receiver
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post #3117 of 8872 Old 03-16-2011, 03:51 AM
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I am in the situation where Yamaha are going to replace my 6 week old RX-A3000 due to intermittent HDMI problems.
Does anyone know if using the Yamaha receiver manager software and saving the (xls?) config file will allow me to restore all my personalised settings to the new receiver?
I would hate to have to go through setting the whole thing up again....
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post #3118 of 8872 Old 03-16-2011, 04:42 AM
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Can I hook up another 7.1 amp to one of the HDMI outs on the Yamaha RX-A2000? I want to have 7.1 surround sound on my back porch (with an outside monitor) but use the PS3 Slim or DirecTV I have in the living room hooked to the A2000. That way guests can go outside and smoke while watching a movie and not miss anything.

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Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

jaburns, that is an excellent question I have pondered myself. I meant to test this while I had the 867 here along with my VSX-23. I had all the cables to test but not the extra speakers and extra TV on hand in addition to what is running. I think you can for sure use the pre-outs to inputs to another AVR for the sound. Not sure if the second HDMI out will send the audio along with the video for that unit to do it's own sound processing since it is my understanding, right or wrong, that the AVR will strip the sound out and only output the video via HDMI out when the unit is on. Curious for the answer to this.

I applaud your graciousness as a host on this one.

Via HDMI, my 867 feeds a main tv in den and a remote tv in my kitchen. Zone 2 speaker level feeds two speakers in the kitchen; zone 2 line level feeds an old two channel amp and pre-amp set up in bedroom. It all works.

Couldn't jaburns run HDMI output 2 to the tv on his porch, then come out of the tv via optical or analog to another receiver? He'd lose some of the high end sound, but it's outside on the porch, for CS.
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post #3119 of 8872 Old 03-16-2011, 05:56 AM
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Via HDMI, my 867 feeds a main tv in den and a remote tv in my kitchen. Zone 2 speaker level feeds two speakers in the kitchen; zone 2 line level feeds an old two channel amp and pre-amp set up in bedroom. It all works.

Couldn't jaburns run HDMI output 2 to the tv on his porch, then come out of the tv via optical or analog to another receiver? He'd lose some of the high end sound, but it's outside on the porch, for CS.

My back porch is a large, covered outdoor living room with a wet bar, etc. I want 7.1 sound out there for CS.
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post #3120 of 8872 Old 03-16-2011, 06:06 AM
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I'd like to see the barn; or maybe the porch is part of the barn? Please post your solution.
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