"Official" Yamaha RX-A1000/RX-A2000/RX-A3000 thread - Page 257 - AVS Forum
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post #7681 of 8882 Old 03-26-2012, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Until you find a pair of speakers that bypass the internal cross over and allow each amp to control the highs and lows, bi amping will grant you nothing. Take those extra channels and enjoy them with front and rear presence.

Ah such certainty - really? Give me a break!
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post #7682 of 8882 Old 03-26-2012, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post


Thanks Venomous,
That much about the kindle fire I knew from google. I don't want to start an off-topic kindle-fire android-rooting discussion here so I just wanted a quick poll to see if anyone has done it so I know if it's easily possible through various means.

I have two iDevices as well, but due to their expensive nature, I keep them away from the kiddies.

I don't know how old your kiddies are, but maybe a really good protective case for one of your idevices might help. Just a thought.
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post #7683 of 8882 Old 03-26-2012, 06:14 PM
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I mentioned earlier in this thread that I am driving two 4 ohm outdoor speakers (paradigm stylus 370-SM's) in a third zone with my RX-2010. I don't want to run another 300ft of speaker wire to run them as 8 ohm, plus I should get fuller sound in the 4ohm mode. With that being said, what would be my best option for an inexpensive amp to drive the 4 ohm speakers? Also I have been reading the manual and I'm not completely clear about which outputs I would hook up the external amp to? I'm thinking the pre-out surround back? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to keep the price around $300 or less. I'm not looking to rock the whole neighborhood ( they probably could ), I'm more concerned with protecting both the speakers and my AVR.
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post #7684 of 8882 Old 03-26-2012, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappaduke View Post

Also I have been reading the manual and I'm not completely clear about which outputs I would hook up the external amp to?

If you want to use the external amp for zone 3 then hook it up to the Zone 3 RCA output jacks just to the left of the pre-outs. Set the Zone 3 volume to variable (On Screen -> Setup -> Multi Zone -> Zone3 Set) if you're using an amplifier without an volume control. Use the fixed setting if the amplifier has its own volume control.

I'm assuming that the RX-A2010 is like the RX-A2000 in this regard.
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post #7685 of 8882 Old 03-26-2012, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post


If you want to use the external amp for zone 3 then hook it up to the Zone 3 RCA output jacks just to the left of the pre-outs. Set the Zone 3 volume to variable (On Screen -> Setup -> Multi Zone -> Zone3 Set) if you're using an amplifier without an volume control. Use the fixed setting if the amplifier has its own volume control.

I'm assuming that the RX-A2010 is like the RX-A2000 in this regard.

Thanks Ross Ridge, I just found that page in the manual and was about to edit, but you beat me to it. Also thanks for the info on setting the volume. I just saw on Emotiva's website that they sell a mini external amp that seems to be designed primarily for zone amplification. Best of all it's just $219. The mini-X a-100. Oh happy day
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post #7686 of 8882 Old 03-26-2012, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDailey View Post

Ah such certainty - really? Give me a break!

Prove me wrong then..l bet you can't...
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post #7687 of 8882 Old 03-26-2012, 08:46 PM
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Hi, i just picked up a RX-A1000 and was wondering if someone would be kind enough to tell me if YPAO can eq the sub and also if it eq's each sub separately if you have 2 connected.

thanks richard
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post #7688 of 8882 Old 03-26-2012, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Socketman View Post

Hi, i just picked up a RX-A1000 and was wondering if someone would be kind enough to tell me if YPAO can eq the sub and also if it eq's each sub separately if you have 2 connected.

thanks richard

I have one and no, it cannot EQ the sub. I use an Anti-mode 8033 for the sub (better than what YPAO can do for subs in higher models anyway).
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post #7689 of 8882 Old 03-26-2012, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ovation View Post

I have one and no, it cannot EQ the sub. I use an Anti-mode 8033 for the sub (better than what YPAO can do for subs in higher models anyway).

I bought this reciever to use while my denon is away being repaired. I have been looking at the anti-mode ,are you running 2 subs and did you notice an improvement. The denon only eq's one.
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post #7690 of 8882 Old 03-27-2012, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socketman View Post


I bought this reciever to use while my denon is away being repaired. I have been looking at the anti-mode ,are you running 2 subs and did you notice an improvement. The denon only eq's one.

I have one sub, though the 8033 can be used with two. I did notice an improvement and would not go without it or something equivalent. The improvement is primarily one of making the bass less boomy and more articulate in my room. It is a more sophisticated EQ than either YPAO or MCACC for subs--roughly the equivalent to Audyssey XT (the sub portion). Together with YPAO for the speakers, it's like having (again, roughly, as they approach the same task in a different way) XT--for ONE listening position (two at most). The advantage of XT (or even YPAO or MCACC in the top end models) is that a wider listening area can be EQ'd for the sub. However, in my particular setup, only one position matters and for that purpose, the 8033 is very good. It would take XT32 or Trinnov to do a lot better (for one position).
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post #7691 of 8882 Old 03-27-2012, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDailey View Post

Ah such certainty - really? Give me a break!

Read this:

http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm

And be careful not to stop reading too soon.
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post #7692 of 8882 Old 03-27-2012, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovation View Post

I have one sub, though the 8033 can be used with two. I did notice an improvement and would not go without it or something equivalent. The improvement is primarily one of making the bass less boomy and more articulate in my room. It is a more sophisticated EQ than either YPAO or MCACC for subs--roughly the equivalent to Audyssey XT (the sub portion). Together with YPAO for the speakers, it's like having (again, roughly, as they approach the same task in a different way) XT--for ONE listening position (two at most). The advantage of XT (or even YPAO or MCACC in the top end models) is that a wider listening area can be EQ'd for the sub. However, in my particular setup, only one position matters and for that purpose, the 8033 is very good. It would take XT32 or Trinnov to do a lot better (for one position).



Thankyou for your explanation.It would be nice if the manufacturers were more forthcoming with this information. Shame yamaha doest offer a more comprehensive sound eq system.I will spend some time with this amp and decide if i will keep it and get the Anti-mode or go back to my denon.
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post #7693 of 8882 Old 03-27-2012, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovation View Post


I have one and no, it cannot EQ the sub. I use an Anti-mode 8033 for the sub (better than what YPAO can do for subs in higher models anyway).

Yup.


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post #7694 of 8882 Old 03-27-2012, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDailey View Post


Ah such certainty - really? Give me a break!

Bi-amping using any of these Yamaha's won't produce much, if any, improvement in sound quality. The torridal transformer is the bottleneck. It can only provide the listed wattage into 2 channels. Once you break it up into 5 channels the maximum wattage per channel almost halves. It pretty much negates the benefit to bi-amping unless you use an external amplifier.


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post #7695 of 8882 Old 03-27-2012, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackOften View Post

Bi-amping using any of these Yamaha's won't produce much, if any, improvement in sound quality. The torridal transformer is the bottleneck. It can only provide the listed wattage into 2 channels. Once you break it up into 5 channels the maximum wattage per channel almost halves. It pretty much negates the benefit to bi-amping unless you use an external amplifier.

Even then it still comes down to the speakers and crossover. Very few speakers actually can be bi amped correctly anyhow.
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post #7696 of 8882 Old 03-27-2012, 03:47 PM
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I have rx-a800 and im sure similar to all these others. i had my system set up with 5.1 sound. I recently moved and only have L/R/Sub/Center setup.

This would be stereo correct? How do I force my receiver to "stereo" 2.1 sound?

Thanks
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post #7697 of 8882 Old 03-27-2012, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by trellaine201 View Post

I have rx-a800 and im sure similar to all these others. i had my system set up with 5.1 sound. I recently moved and only have L/R/Sub/Center setup.

This would be stereo correct? How do I force my receiver to "stereo" 2.1 sound?

Thanks

That is a 3.1 setup. Left, center & right (3) + sub (1).


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post #7698 of 8882 Old 03-27-2012, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackOften View Post

That is a 3.1 setup. Left, center & right (3) + sub (1).

Oops. But still stereo? Do you know how I can force the receiver to stereo? My receiver is showing 5.1 but I only have l/r/c and sub hooked.
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post #7699 of 8882 Old 03-27-2012, 05:32 PM
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I can hear a improvement with my A2000 and Paradigm monitor 7's bi-amped 5.1



Quote:
Originally Posted by JackOften View Post

Bi-amping using any of these Yamaha's won't produce much, if any, improvement in sound quality. The torridal transformer is the bottleneck. It can only provide the listed wattage into 2 channels. Once you break it up into 5 channels the maximum wattage per channel almost halves. It pretty much negates the benefit to bi-amping unless you use an external amplifier.


Later Lenbo
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post #7700 of 8882 Old 03-27-2012, 05:40 PM
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I have both the Android app and the yamaha app on my fire. They both work very good.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post

Thanks Venomous,
That much about the kindle fire I knew from google. I don't want to start an off-topic kindle-fire android-rooting discussion here so I just wanted a quick poll to see if anyone has done it so I know if it's easily possible through various means.

I have two iDevices as well, but due to their expensive nature, I keep them away from the kiddies.


Later Lenbo
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post #7701 of 8882 Old 03-27-2012, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

It's funny to see you bringing up the Vienna's... I too was interested in Vienna's, mainly the Beethovens and realized the 4 ohm load was going to be a killer for most systems. I had no idea what direction I was going to go for my avr either so although they have a 91 db efficiency rating,the 4 ohm old makes them very difficult to drive without external amps. I took this into consideration and moved my interest to 8 ohm speakers.

In regards to the 4311, overload protection was probably adjusted and set to conservative. I heard the 4310 was buggy which is why the 4311 came out with fixes, but many avr's have issues driving 4 phm loads, so I cannot completely blame Denon here. Weight has nothing to do with it here. If I was in the amp business, I think I would add 30 pounds of dense iron to my chassis to trick guys like you into buying my product

I learned about ohm loads long ago and it was always said, if you want to drive difficult speakers, you best have the wallet to supply a proper amp to drive them, regardless of your pre/pro.

Today, a 2 channel amp and a nice pre to drive such speakers isn't even considered expensive anymore

I have several Vienna acoustics speakers.. a pair of.Mozarts...4 Haydns and a Theatro center

Though I use none of them...but thats another story...

My Pioneer elite VSX47tx( 64lbs) drove them flawlessly..the Onkyo 875( 54lbs) not far behind//The Denon 4310 clipped and turned off
I have seen any great bench test numbers( all channels driven) on the 4311 either

Curiously all the receivers, I was testing, have ratings that are within 10 watts of each other

My ears told me quite a different story..and clearly the Denon clipping and shutting off confirmed what I thought

Your amp theory is flawed...find any AVR or amp that will run say 125( or more) with 5 channels(or more) driven at the same time..

Compare the weights....and see how they differ

BTW I dont mean mean manufacturers specs...cause those are typically BS anyway....I am talking bench tests for a trusted publication

Separate amps were never expensive...the flapship brands like Krell and McIntosh etc were always expensive..and still are

But there have been brands like Rotel , Harmon Kardon and Denon that have made many reasonably priced separate amps over the years that are still better than most anything you can find in an AVR today

especially since the manufacturers have gotten out of the flagship AVR business( excluding Denon with the 5308)

I actually replaced the Onkyo 875 with the A3000
The A3000 sounds better..more detailed. However the Onkyo is definitely the more beefy powerful unit. I am running bookshelf speakers( Celestion) in that room so I dont need the brute force
If I was running towers, or a some 4ohm speakers...I would switch back to the Onkyo


Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer SC37 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009/906 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
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post #7702 of 8882 Old 03-27-2012, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackOften View Post

Bi-amping using any of these Yamaha's won't produce much, if any, improvement in sound quality. The torridal transformer is the bottleneck. It can only provide the listed wattage into 2 channels. Once you break it up into 5 channels the maximum wattage per channel almost halves. It pretty much negates the benefit to bi-amping unless you use an external amplifier.

I assume that is a Yamaha specific thing..to protect the power supply they use in the unit?



Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer SC37 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009/906 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
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post #7703 of 8882 Old 03-27-2012, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post


I assume that is a Yamaha specific thing..to protect the power supply they use in the unit?

Warren

Not just Yamaha. Rarely do any multi channel receivers produce full rated power into all channels. The specs are typically always for the mains, "two channels driven". There ate a few exceptions however..

Cheers

Love DIY
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post #7704 of 8882 Old 03-28-2012, 04:33 AM
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Looking for some suggestions choosing an external amp to drive a pair of 4 ohm stylus 370-SM's outdoor speakers in a 3rd zone using my RX-A2010. So far I'm considering an Emotiva mini X a-100, a Russound X75 and an Audiosource AMP 102.any help or suggestions would be appreciated. I would like to stay under $300 and preferably closer to $200.
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post #7705 of 8882 Old 03-28-2012, 03:41 PM
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My a2000 is still having intermittent signal problems in pass through mode with the avr off.

I tried two different hdmi ports on the back of the avr and different hdmi cables

Anyone else?
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post #7706 of 8882 Old 03-28-2012, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burts View Post

My a2000 is still having intermittent signal problems in pass through mode with the avr off.

I tried two different hdmi ports on the back of the avr and different hdmi cables

Anyone else?

I have trouble with the audio occasionally dropping out on my A2000 when in passthrough mode, but only with my connection to the cable box. All other connections are fine in passthrough mode and I have no issues when the A2000 is powered.
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post #7707 of 8882 Old 03-28-2012, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trellaine201 View Post


Oops. But still stereo? Do you know how I can force the receiver to stereo? My receiver is showing 5.1 but I only have l/r/c and sub hooked.

The 5.1 you are seeing is probably the source encoding (like Dolby Digital 5.1) and not the channels being used. The receiver will 'down-matrix' the material to 3.1 using Dolby pro-logic.


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post #7708 of 8882 Old 03-30-2012, 09:33 PM
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Recently got my RX-A1000 and still in the exploratory phase and one thing that strikes me as bizarre is playback of redbook CD's. I'm using the digital coaxial output on the Pioneer DV-47Ai and implementing the yamahas dacs using the STRAIGHT mode on the receiver. Now instead of getting just left & right stereo I'm also receiving use of the subwoofer in this mode. I'm certainly not complaining about that it's certainly an enhancement. It just must be how Yamaha designed the soundfield.

Also I find using the digital coaxial output and the yamaha dacs produce the best audio for standard cd playback, better than analog. (Anybody else prefer this method for cd's?) Which is ironic because I use the burr brown dacs in the Pioneer universal player for my 5.1 multichannel dvd-a and sacd playback and that's excellent as well. Well that's been my observations so far.
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post #7709 of 8882 Old 03-31-2012, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Headspace View Post

Recently got my RX-A1000 and still in the exploratory phase and one thing that strikes me as bizarre is playback of redbook CD's. I'm using the digital coaxial output on the Pioneer DV-47Ai and implementing the yamahas dacs using the STRAIGHT mode on the receiver. Now instead of getting just left & right stereo I'm also receiving use of the subwoofer in this mode. I'm certainly not complaining about that it's certainly an enhancement. It just must be how Yamaha designed the soundfield.

Also I find using the digital coaxial output and the yamaha dacs produce the best audio for standard cd playback, better than analog. (Anybody else prefer this method for cd's?) Which is ironic because I use the burr brown dacs in the Pioneer universal player for my 5.1 multichannel dvd-a and sacd playback and that's excellent as well. Well that's been my observations so far.

I can't recall if the A1000 has pure direct, but if it does it will only output to the left and right speakers. At least that is how it works on my A2010.
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post #7710 of 8882 Old 03-31-2012, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Headspace View Post

Recently got my RX-A1000 and still in the exploratory phase and one thing that strikes me as bizarre is playback of redbook CD's. I'm using the digital coaxial output on the Pioneer DV-47Ai and implementing the yamahas dacs using the STRAIGHT mode on the receiver. Now instead of getting just left & right stereo I'm also receiving use of the subwoofer in this mode. I'm certainly not complaining about that it's certainly an enhancement. It just must be how Yamaha designed the soundfield.

If you have your main speakers set up as "small", there will always be sounds directed to the sub.

Quote:


Also I find using the digital coaxial output and the yamaha dacs produce the best audio for standard cd playback, better than analog. (Anybody else prefer this method for cd's?) Which is ironic because I use the burr brown dacs in the Pioneer universal player for my 5.1 multichannel dvd-a and sacd playback and that's excellent as well. Well that's been my observations so far.

Note that the stereo analog inputs are always digitized by the AVR, so you're not really comparing one DAC to the other. To avoid that, you'd need to use the multi-channel analog inputs.
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