"Official" Yamaha RX-A1000/RX-A2000/RX-A3000 thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 8886 Old 08-20-2010, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Squishy Tia View Post

...I'm not seeing even the A1000 anywhere but these online/catalog-only shops. Is Yamaha trying to shoot themselves in the foot by not letting people actually see/test the products before they buy?

I need to check some things out in the UI, for which even the A1000 would tell me what I need to know. But without a physical AVR to test...well, my money stays put.

When someone gets a chance to play with one of these connected to a display, please report if the volume overlay looks like this one on the 667, which I think is pretty obtrusive and it can't be disabled. The menu item for "Short Messages" is absent acording to the manual, and that's how the volume overlay was turned on or off for the 3900.
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post #122 of 8886 Old 08-20-2010, 06:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy Tia View Post

J&R Music has the A2000 and A3000 listed, presumably, as pre-order. I'm not seeing even the A1000 anywhere but these online/catalog-only shops. Is Yamaha trying to shoot themselves in the foot by not letting people actually see/test the products before they buy?

I need to check some things out in the UI, for which even the A1000 would tell me what I need to know. But without a physical AVR to test...well, my money stays put.

With so much being bought on the internet now there are going to be fewer and fewer places to check things out (not just electronics). Bigger dealers typical get the newer products first and the internet dealers do so much volume it is tough for the manufacturers not to cater to them. So they get first run of a product. To test something nowadays buy from a place with a good return policy, check it out in your home and if you don't like it return it.

You don't want to actually go somewhere to shop do you? You have to adapt to the new way to shop
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post #123 of 8886 Old 08-20-2010, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BobL View Post

With so much being bought on the internet now there are going to be fewer and fewer places to check things out (not just electronics). Bigger dealers typical get the newer products first and the internet dealers do so much volume it is tough for the manufacturers not to cater to them. So they get first run of a product. To test something nowadays buy from a place with a good return policy, check it out in your home and if you don't like it return it.

You don't want to actually go somewhere to shop do you? You have to adapt to the new way to shop

There's no "adapting" to the need to have my money at the ready and not held hostage while I find out if I like something or not. And considering that MSRP this is going to cost me more than $2k after taxes, that's a HUGE chunk of my credit on hold just to "test" something.

So if places aren't allowed to get this product, then I don't buy it, simple as that. I had to learn my lesson the hard way with the Onkyo TX-NR5007. It's a beast of a unit for sure, but its Audyssey EQ system literally put my tweeters to bed. It was if they were on vacation, and I have RTi-A9s, which most people consider overly bright. Had I had the ability to test the 5007 in store I wouldn't have had to wait nearly a month to get my $2k back on my CC and could have gone on with my life with other things in the meantime.

So no, if they want my business, they won't force me to adapt. If they try, then I don't buy.

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post #124 of 8886 Old 08-20-2010, 08:32 AM
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Reading between the lines in the manuals I think the A1000 probably has a single DSP like the lower models, while the 2000 and 3000 have more processing power (probably two DSPs like the RX-V3900).

The consequence is that the A1000 has the following limitations as mentioned in the manual:
  • When you playback audio signals higher than 96kHz, the straight decoding mode is automatically selected.
  • When you playback DTS-HD sources with CINEMA DSP, the DTS decoder is automatically selected.
The first case is not so bad as long as it really means above 96kHz, and not 96kHz and above, since there's not much advantage going above 96kHz. But it means you can't apply, for example, PLIIx to the highest quality sources.

The second case seems to say you need to decode DTS-HD in your player and send as PCM if you want to turn on CINEMA DSP processing. If you bitstream you'll hear the lossy DTS core.

Not necessarily huge problems, but it shows there's a significant difference internally between the A1000 and the 2000/3000.
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post #125 of 8886 Old 08-20-2010, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy Tia View Post

So no, if they want my business, they won't force me to adapt. If they try, then I don't buy.

+1
I really don't like that sight unseen purchase either. I really want to to like the new line, and from what heard so far, they seem betterthan last years' model. For me right now it's between one of the new Yamahas' or one of the new Anthems'. But I wanna see and touch first.

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post #126 of 8886 Old 08-20-2010, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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You can see it in the online picture. You can read the manual, and know much more than you would seeing it in person.

That being said, maybe Yamaha should put up videos of them in operation

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #127 of 8886 Old 08-20-2010, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

You can see it in the online picture. You can read the manual, and know much more than you would seeing it in person.

That being said, maybe Yamaha should put up videos of them in operation

Not quite.

Online I can see things, but can't:

1) Navigate the UI and get a feel for what it's like.

2) Use the remote control and see if it interacts in any logical and decent manner (many don't).

3) Test to see if certain features act the way I want/need them to. An example of this would be setting SCENE 1/2 for Lip Sync on (100ms) or off, SCENE 3/4 for Forced 24 Hz (1080p/24) ON/OFF.

4) Whether or not it alters the EDID of incoming HDMI data streams. ALL Yamahas prior to this one do. Knowing this before buying makes life a LOT easier on me in terms of setting up my system beforehand to deal with it.

So no, a manual, especially the very pitifully done, sparsely detailed, poorly laid out Ax000 series manuals won't let me know what I need to know before buying.

And considering the total crap Yamaha has put out in the last five years (minus the 1900/3900/Z7/Z11), I think I have a right to see what it can do before I plop down $2k+, for which I'll have to end up waiting nearly a full month to get back if I don't like it (vs. 5 days tops locally bought from a physical store once I return it).

So um, no touchy, no takey. And #3 and #4 are deal breakers if they aren't what I expect/need (#4 especially).

It looks like these models have good I/O flexibility. It's the UI functionality and signal pathing that are going to make or break this, and I want to see it firsthand.

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post #128 of 8886 Old 08-20-2010, 09:11 PM
 
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I never said the B&Ms can't get the equipment just the first shipments might go to the bigger dealers first, the bigger dealers might be an internet dealer. Often first shipments go to dealers which have pending customer orders so their orders get filled first. So you might have to wait a little longer for your local dealer depending on availability. If there are plenty available everybody will have them.

I agree with you that you should be able to check out the equipment first. My comments simply reflect the state of the economy and the internet age where B&Ms are dropping like flies and I don't see that trend changing anytime soon. It is getting tougher to find a place to demo merchandise.
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post #129 of 8886 Old 08-21-2010, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Squishy Tia View Post

Whether or not it alters the EDID of incoming HDMI data streams. ALL Yamahas prior to this one do.

Alter the EDID how?

Do you know if the Pioneer receivers in bypass mode do that also?

Thanks.
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post #130 of 8886 Old 08-21-2010, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by sa View Post

Alter the EDID how?

Do you know if the Pioneer receivers in bypass mode do that also?

Thanks.

Up until now all Yamahas, and some Denons have altered the EDID data when HDMI signals are passed through them. This is observed by the fact that the TVs capable of reading EDID data (there are a few out there that do this) would read the source name as the name of the AVR in question instead of as the computer/DVD/BD player itself. This additional processing often caused HDMI handshake issues, as well as affecting how the TV could process the incoming video stream.

Unfortunately I do not know if the Pioneers did this as well. I suspect at least some of the lower end models did, but I'm not sure about any of the Elite line. I've stayed away from Pioneer as their power specs are almost always overly gratuitous (as in most of their specs are rated at 1 KHz for each channel instead of RMS @ 20 Hz - 20 KHz), and I've had more failures with Pioneer power supplies than with any other manufacturer. Their Elite line is a far cry better than their regular line, but even the lower end of the Elite line is rated at the 1 KHz specification, which tells me that their power supplies still aren't up to snuff.

I wish I could be more helpful with Pioneer info, but my trust in them is about as much as my trust in Blizzard Entertainment, so I avoid them like the plague.

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post #131 of 8886 Old 08-21-2010, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy Tia View Post

Up until now all Yamahas, and some Denons have altered the EDID data when HDMI signals are passed through them. This is observed by the fact that the TVs capable of reading EDID data (there are a few out there that do this) would read the source name as the name of the AVR in question instead of as the computer/DVD/BD player itself. This additional processing often caused HDMI handshake issues, as well as affecting how the TV could process the incoming video stream.

Apart from possible handshake issues, does it degrade picture quality? Do the Yamaha's change the colorspace of the HDMI signal? Is it done to add the OSD and isn't there a bypass mode on the Yamaha's so they don't touch the signal?
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post #132 of 8886 Old 08-21-2010, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sa View Post

Apart from possible handshake issues, does it degrade picture quality? Do the Yamaha's change the colorspace of the HDMI signal? Is it done to add the OSD and isn't there a bypass mode on the Yamaha's so they don't touch the signal?

Picture quality doesn't get degraded by EDID changes. Digital data is digital data: it's either all there, or not there at all. Disabling the "OSD over HDMI" feature should have made EDID changes stop, but alas it didn't. Hopefully that changes with the Aventage models. Bypass modes are usually called "passthrough", and despite the moniker, they often do attach new EDID tags to the data stream. It's one of the reasons AVRs are so reviled when it comes to HDMI - when BD/DVD players and TVs both have scalers, upconverters, and format conversion, there is no reason for the AVR to interfere at all except to force 24 Hz mode, which some TVs (I'm looking at you Samsung!) require for their enhanced smoothing modes to not choke.

Anyway, if the Aventage models refrain from altering the data stream in any way, then this is a huge boon to would-be AVR shoppers. We'll just have to wait and see.

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post #133 of 8886 Old 08-22-2010, 01:02 AM
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It is not my area, but when an AVR does video upscaling, I think it is obliged to change the EBID to inform the TV what it is outputing?
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post #134 of 8886 Old 08-22-2010, 08:07 AM
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It is not my area, but when an AVR does video upscaling, I think it is obliged to change the EBID to inform the TV what it is outputing?

That's a given. We're talking about AVRs continuing to modify the EDID data when it is not doing any conversion at all, i.e. in passthrough mode.

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post #135 of 8886 Old 08-22-2010, 03:08 PM
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Anybody have any opinions on how Yamaha and Marantz compare?
I've just been made aware of the new Ms coming out, in particular the SR6005 at the same price point as the RX-A1000. These units are very pretty to look at, if nothing else.
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post #136 of 8886 Old 08-23-2010, 04:46 AM
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Anybody have any opinions on how Yamaha and Marantz compare?

The new Marantz models are pretty much rebadged Denon.
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post #137 of 8886 Old 08-23-2010, 06:34 AM
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The new Marantz models are pretty much rebadged Denon.

Ah. So they are. I also just saw that the $1000 model has no ethernet port, which pretty much puts them out of the running for me.
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post #138 of 8886 Old 08-24-2010, 05:43 PM
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Does either the A2000 or A3000 have an auto volume leveling feature to adjust for commercial sound levels (TV) and input source changes?

Thanks!
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post #139 of 8886 Old 08-24-2010, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bwb View Post

Does either the A2000 or A3000 have an auto volume leveling feature to adjust for commercial sound levels (TV) and input source changes?

Thanks!
bwb

It has two. One works on DD and DTS, and is nothing special, all receivers should have this option. It's part of the DD standard, not sure about DTS.

The other option is Adaptive DRC. In my opinion, it's not the same thing as some of the modern volume control systems. Yamaha needs to get with the year 2010 on this regard.

They remind me of when I worked for IBM, and their anti-NIH philosophy (Not Invented Here.)

I think Yamaha might sell more product if they jumped on the Audyssey bandwagon along with some of the other latest processing.

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post #140 of 8886 Old 08-24-2010, 09:39 PM
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Much appreciated. Thanks!

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post #141 of 8886 Old 08-25-2010, 03:19 AM
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Do the new RX-As have memory settings like the older receivers? My recently departed RX-V3800 had 5 memories where different sound and speaker setups could be stored. My new 667 has nothing like that and I am sorely missing it. Being a shift worker, I had Memory 1 set up for full speaker sound and Memory 2 set for center channel speaker only for when I have to sleep odd hours. One button push for a totally different configuration! My wife could give a rip about sound quality, and I don't get rattled out of bed by the woofer. The 667 has nothing like that. There is a 2-speaker setting but it still drives the subwoofer. I wish I could undo that deal.
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post #142 of 8886 Old 08-25-2010, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by erg0010 View Post

Do the new RX-As have memory settings like the older receivers? My recently departed RX-V3800 had 5 memories where different sound and speaker setups could be stored. My new 667 has nothing like that and I am sorely missing it. Being a shift worker, I had Memory 1 set up for full speaker sound and Memory 2 set for center channel speaker only for when I have to sleep odd hours. One button push for a totally different configuration! My wife could give a rip about sound quality, and I don't get rattled out of bed by the woofer. The 667 has nothing like that. There is a 2-speaker setting but it still drives the subwoofer. I wish I could undo that deal.

The A series, at least for the 1000/2000/3000 have what is called SCENE functionality. You get four immediately available SCENE buttons, which can be used to call up settings that you specify. This is one area I wish to know further detail as well, as I want to have SCENE 1/2 set to Audio Delay 100ms/OFF respectively, and SCENE 3/4 set to Force 24 Hz ON/OFF respectively, without any other setting being touched. I need this to compensate for the Samsung TV's lack of such features and the fact that on my current Yamaha (HTR-5860), I have to set the audio delay by digging into the SOUND menu and manually dialing the audio from 0-100 or 100-0ms, which takes at least 30 seconds in total each time. SCENE, if it works how I want it to, will let me do so instantly.

You get a total of 12 SCENE memories, though I've yet to figure out from the manual how you access the other 8 using the four buttons on the remote (hopefully you won't have to dig into menus, which defeats the purpose of one-button-simplicity).

Regarding your current situation, you could turn the volume down to mute levels (mute button WILL NOT WORK for this, as you can't change speaker settings while muted that way), and set your speakers to LARGE, and that would disable the subwoofer completely, as all bass would be directed toward the speakers. The only issue is...you're trying to avoid bass completely (going for dialogue mainly). If your sub is not too well hidden, you could simply turn it off, especially if it has a remote (many do these days) and leave your speakers set to Small.

Here's hoping the SCENE buttons work the way I want them to, which would also be the way you want them to as well.

Sidenote: The A3000 just got added to Crutchfield's listings. The A1000 is scheduled to arrive on Aug. 31st, while the 2000 and 3000 are still "unknown arrival date". I'd expect the 2000/3000 to arrive at the end of Sept. Sadly this likely means I don't get to physically try these AVRs until the end of October with how brick and mortar stores get their allotments.

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post #143 of 8886 Old 08-25-2010, 06:33 AM
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I thought about using Scenes, but unless I misunderstand, I would have to use two Scenes for each device!! One for a quiet mode, and another for normal multichannel sound. Even then I am not sure you can set a specific speaker configuration. I downloaded the manuals for the A1000, 2000 and 3000 from the Yamaha site. In reading though them, it looks like they behave the same way as the 667. What a mess I created for myself, just to get a 1.4 receiver for 3D!

On my 3800, it was so simple. Go thru the GUI and mute the speakers you don't want to use (and a bunch of other settings) then select a memory to save to. That allowed a one-button solution. Want quiet, push memory button 2. Want to shake the neighborhood, push memory button 1.

It's always one step forward and one step back.

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post #144 of 8886 Old 08-25-2010, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by erg0010 View Post

It's always one step forward and one step back.

Gene

Or sometimes TWO steps back

Do you have a universal remote? A Harmony or anything? You could certainly use that, though it may be cumbersome to set up initially.
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post #145 of 8886 Old 08-25-2010, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy Tia View Post

Sidenote: The A3000 just got added to Crutchfield's listings. The A1000 is scheduled to arrive on Aug. 31st, while the 2000 and 3000 are still "unknown arrival date". I'd expect the 2000/3000 to arrive at the end of Sept. Sadly this likely means I don't get to physically try these AVRs until the end of October with how brick and mortar stores get their allotments.

I was also hoping to check these out in person before buying, for many of the reasons you illustrated. I've asked around at Best Buy and PC Richard (regional tv & appliance shop, on Yamaha's reseller list) and they have no clue what I am asking them. I wonder, does Crutchfield have a showroom that you can visit? I'll be in VA in the next few weeks..... hmmm....
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post #146 of 8886 Old 08-25-2010, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erg0010 View Post

I thought about using Scenes, but unless I misunderstand, I would have to use two Scenes for each device!! One for a quiet mode, and another for normal multichannel sound. Even then I am not sure you can set a specific speaker configuration. I downloaded the manuals for the A1000, 2000 and 3000 from the Yamaha site. In reading though them, it looks like they behave the same way as the 667.

Scenes are better than on the 667. For example look at page 27 in the A1000 manual. There's a whole lot of things that can optionally be saved with scenes, including lipsync delay and speaker "pattern". You get to decide (p.100) which of these extra things are loaded or not when a scene is selected.

They are still not as good as the old system memories, but could just about be acceptable. The speaker settings are a bit limited too, because it looks like the choice is either "pattern 1" or "pattern 2" (big choice ). At least that's enough for, say, a two channel setup and a multi-channel setup.

If you combine the improved scene functionality with the ability to send discrete codes from a progammable remote to change virtually anything without going into the menus, then you should be OK. But I like the system memories on my 1800 and wish they had kept them.
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post #147 of 8886 Old 08-25-2010, 12:46 PM
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Just got notification email from Crutchfield that the 1000s are now in stock, so maybe you won't have to wait quite so long for the 2 and 3K.
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post #148 of 8886 Old 08-25-2010, 02:44 PM
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While some don't care regarding the VP Chips in their AVR I've owned an HD and BD player with HQV and they were excellent on both and the HQV Vida Chip is supposed to be the latest and improved upon VP from HQV.

I sent an email to HQV over a week ago concerning their new Vida chip, but no response. Does anyone know if the Vida chip is an improvement over the Reon and/or Realta?


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post #149 of 8886 Old 08-25-2010, 05:30 PM
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While I'm going to wait until the RX-A3000 is in stock before ordering, you can pre-order the RX-A3000 today from Abt for $1,570 with free shipping (add sales tax if your in Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, or Wisconsin).
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post #150 of 8886 Old 08-25-2010, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bustamelon View Post

.... maybe it's time to let go of the vinyl....

Noooooooooooooo! No man, don't do it! First it was CD, now MP3 we're being conditioned to accept lower and lower quality reproduction. A study by Stanford University Music Professor Jonathan Berger showed that students now actually seem to prefer the 'sizzle' sounds that MP3s bring to music. Only analog plays it like the musician made it.
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