"Official" Yamaha RX-A1000/RX-A2000/RX-A3000 thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I will write a thorough review if someone sends me one

I was comparing the 2000 and 3000 and realized how much they parallel the 3900 and Z7. For example, they both seem to use the same video processor, but the 3000 has more options just like the Z7 had.

The A3000 has the 4th optical zone like the Z7.

The price tag for these extra features is not cheap. I understand Yamaha wanting to make money. But the A2000 definitely seems to be a better deal.

You think the price tag for those extra features isn't cheap - try having to ditch the amps, and pay $1000 more than the A2000 (or even A3000) for a prepro with XLR connections (most in the sub $3k range lack this for some unknown reason).

Not that paying $1k+ more for properly grounded connections is any more or less irritating than paying $500 more for a couple video features and a slight speed bump (as it were) for amp specs.

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post #182 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

The price tag for these extra features is not cheap. I understand Yamaha wanting to make money. But the A2000 definitely seems to be a better deal.

I ran down the list of options and read both manuals and came to the same conclusion, that the A2000 looks like the best bang for the buck compared to the A1000/3000. I have been looking for some time to replace an RX-V4600 which I am moving to a different room in the house. The A2000 looks like a good upgrade. I am anxious to see them arrive in the stores.
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post #183 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laszlog View Post

Picked one of these up at Fry's today, but an not going home until Tomorrow (Sunday) - I'll let you know what it looks/sounds like as soon as I can.

Can you please post pictures (or just a description might do) of what the front panel display looks like as you make a volume change, and what the volume overlay on the TV looks like. Also, can the volume overlay be turned off if you don't want to see anything on screen?
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post #184 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Can you please post pictures (or just a description might do) of what the front panel display looks like as you make a volume change, and what the volume overlay on the TV looks like. Also, can the volume overlay be turned off if you don't want to see anything on screen?

Ditto.

Also can you try the dsp 3-d setting and let us know what it does
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post #185 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 12:54 PM
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I agree with the 2000 representing the best value, but the kick in the a** is for guys like me who are all-but dying to implement an 11.X surround array, for which only the 3000 will suffice.

I'm still between the 3000 and Denon 4311...I just wish I could audition both, but you can all but forget about it in the Milwaukee area, as our second of only 2 hi-fi b&m's just shuttered up after nearly 100 years of business. The other essentially laughs at AVRs.

Most seem to think Audyssey's version will be superior so I'm currently leaning towards the 4311.

James

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post #186 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 01:07 PM
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Which features are you guys looking at on the 2000 that makes it a better deal than the 1000?
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post #187 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I'm still between the 3000 and Denon 4311...
Most seem to think Audyssey's version will be superior so I'm currently leaning towards the 4311.

11.2 with Audyssey DSX wides + heights does seem a bit more interesting than the Yamaha front + rear presence setup, although I've never actually heard either of them.

But what makes me wary of Audyssey is the EQ solution that's all or nothing (unless you pay extra for their "pro" version). You either like what it gives you or you turn it off and use the basic manual EQ instead. There's no tweaking after the fact (speaker levels you can, but not room correction filters). Yamaha's YPAO is not really as sophisticated, but the plus side of that is you can make manual adjustments afterwards. And the 2000/3000 will have an improved YPAO.

Actually I'm glad I'm not really looking to replace my 1800 right now, or I would have the same difficult decision as you .
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post #188 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 01:23 PM
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Probably: slightly more power (larger supply as well?) 9.2 operability, ultra-low jitter circuitry, HQV Video processing, Reflected Sound Control, Zone 2 GUI, a 3rd zone, and perhaps the learning remote for some.

For a good number, I'm sure the above will be worth the extra 3-$400 over the 1000.

James

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post #189 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 01:25 PM
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Also the 1000 only has a single global crossover frequency, although that's no big deal if all your speakers are similar.
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post #190 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

11.2 with Audyssey DSX wides + heights does seem a bit more interesting than the Yamaha front + rear presence setup, although I've never actually heard either of them.

But what makes me wary of Audyssey is the EQ solution that's all or nothing (unless you pay extra for their "pro" version). You either like what it gives you or you turn it off and use the basic manual EQ instead. There's no tweaking after the fact (speaker levels you can, but not room correction filters). Yamaha's YPAO is not really as sophisticated, but the plus side of that is you can make manual adjustments afterwards. And the 2000/3000 will have an improved YPAO.

Actually I'm glad I'm not really looking to replace my 1800 right now, or I would have the same difficult decision as you .

Yes, I know you have your reservations about Aud's EQing, but I can live with it if the 11.x is superior to Yammys. Also I'm still not convinced the 3000's amp config is as sophisticated as the 4311's which will let me run pretty much any config I desire. For instance: after perusing the 3000's manual extensively, I'm still not convinced I can externally amp a traditional 7 channel array and have the 3000 take care of the four presence channels, as it's not listed amongst the potential configs.

Also, the 4311 lets me output digital inputs to zones 2 and 3 which the 3000 will not.

I think I'm going to let the first wave of buyers sort this stuff out for me, before I decide. thanks guys!

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #191 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 02:05 PM
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Oh, sure, throw another option into the mix now.
Thanks for the answers. Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. I can see the digital zone connections and the extra zone being useful, as well as the more flexible EQ setup. But I'm not sold on the video processing or the 74 channel surround. And my six speakers are all matched.

...not that I'm looking down my nose at those who do want 7/9/11 channel setups. It's just that this is my living room setup; no dedicated home theater until I hit the lotto and move into a house that breaks the 1000sf barrier. 5.1 is about all I can accommodate for the foreseeable future.

Kick me if this has been discussed, but can the video processing be bypassed altogether on these units? I would think any display worth half its salt would be a better processor than any AV receiver would.
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post #192 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bustamelon View Post

Kick me if this has been discussed, but can the video processing be bypassed altogether on these units? I would think any display worth half its salt would be a better processor than any AV receiver would.

bustamelon,

I just kicked you. The 2000 and 3000 are using the latest offering by HQV. Onkyo's 3008 and 5008 are using the HQV Reon. Denon's models 3310 and up are using ABT and some of Pioneer's AVRs are using Marvel by QDEO. Under most circumstances these video chips will out perform most displays and the only way to improve on this would be to purchase a separate video processor.


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post #193 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

bustamelon,

I just kicked you. The 2000 and 3000 are using the latest offering by HQV. Onkyo's 3008 and 5008 are using the HQV Reon. Denon's models 3310 and up are using ABT and some of Pioneer's AVRs are using Marvel by QDEO. Under most circumstances these video chips will out perform most displays and the only way to improve on this would be to purchase a separate video processor.

Does anybody have an opinion on whether the implementation of how the HQV chip in the Yamaha compares with the Pioneer Marvell Qdeo? The Qdeo is getting excellent reviews in the Pioneer threads.
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post #194 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

11.2 with Audyssey DSX wides + heights does seem a bit more interesting than the Yamaha front + rear presence setup, although I've never actually heard either of them.

The "DTS Neo:X" [aka "DTS Advanced Neo"] 5/6.x layout demoed at CES 2009 looked like it might have been a 'good fit' with the Yamaha RX-A3000 speaker set. But the absence of a 'commercialized' implementation of the DTS process for almost two years -- coupled with the 'success/acceptance' of DSX and Pioneer Front Wide speakers -- makes me wonder if DTS has 'rethought' the issue of adding two front height plus two rear in-plane speakers in favor of something closer to the DSX and Pioneer 7/2.x or 7/4.x speaker layouts . . . which [as usual!] suggests we might see something more interesting from Yamaha next year!

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post #195 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

bustamelon,

I just kicked you. The 2000 and 3000 are using the latest offering by HQV. Onkyo's 3008 and 5008 are using the HQV Reon. Denon's models 3310 and up are using ABT and some of Pioneer's AVRs are using Marvel by QDEO. Under most circumstances these video chips will out perform most displays and the only way to improve on this would be to purchase a separate video processor.


Willie

OK, consider me kicked.
...but can it be bypassed, or, I guess, you just wouldn't want to bypass it?
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post #196 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bustamelon View Post

OK, consider me kicked.
...but can it be bypassed, or, I guess, you just wouldn't want to bypass it?

bustamelon,

In most instances it can be bypassed as there are some displays and projectors that have very competent chips in them that may match or surpass the performance of the chip in the AVR. Only your eyes can tell you which one you prefer.


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post #197 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 06:22 PM
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mko1024:

Abt has the RX-A2000 in stock today.
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post #198 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 10:54 PM
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bustamelon:

I'm going to purchase an RX-A3000 because I can manually adjust its Vida chip (page 122), while the Vida in the RX-A2000 can only be set to auto (page 118).

I'm one of the very few here who has a projector (only about 2%???). For the 98% of you here with a 65" or smaller display, video processing in an AVR or an outboard set-top box is moot for you, IMO.

I'm hoping that the Vida will clean up some of the Comcast HDTV shows, and the YouTube videos that I watch from my TiVo S-3s, on my 159" HP screen, from a viewing distance of only 12' 8".

If it doesn't, I'll exchange the RX-A3000 for a Denon 4311 (my current receiver is an ancient Denon 2307).
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post #199 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 11:08 PM
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I'm posting a video to the same location with the volume settings. should be there shortly.

http://gallery.me.com/laszlog/100097
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post #200 of 8907 Old 08-31-2010, 11:24 PM
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I'm trying to figure out under what circumstances the receivers video circuitry will kick in. If all my sources are outputting 1080p already, then the Yamaha has nothing to do, right?

My only non-1080p source is a DirecTV HD receiver which puts out 1080i. So this source would be upscaled by the receiver?

And if I played DVDs in my HD-DVD player then I'd need to set it to output 480i so that the receiver gets to do something?

I'm trying to see why there is so much interest in the receivers video up-conversion circuitry:
1. Are there more uses for it other than with analog sources and regular DVDs?
2. From a practical point of view if you set a BD or HD-DVD player to output lower than 1080p because you wanted the receiver to have something to do, then when you played a BD or HD DVD you'd have to switch the output resolution of the player up again??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhunter View Post

bustamelon:

I'm going to purchase an RX-A3000 because I can manually adjust its Vida chip (page 122), while the Vida in the RX-A2000 can only be set to auto (page 118).

I'm one of the very few here who has a projector (only about 2%???). For the 98% of you here with a 65" or smaller display, video processing in an AVR or an outboard set-top box is moot for you, IMO.

I'm hoping that the Vida will clean up some of the Comcast HDTV shows, and the YouTube videos that I watch from my TiVo S-3s, on my 159" HP screen, from a viewing distance of only 12' 8".

If it doesn't, I'll exchange the RX-A3000 for a Denon 4311 (my current receiver is an ancient Denon 2307).

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post #201 of 8907 Old 09-01-2010, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by laszlog View Post

I'm posting a video to the same location with the volume settings. should be there shortly.

http://gallery.me.com/laszlog/100097

So it's not possible to turn off the volume indicator (OSD) for the TV-screen?
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post #202 of 8907 Old 09-01-2010, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laszlog View Post

I'm posting a video to the same location with the volume settings. should be there shortly. http://gallery.me.com/laszlog/100097

Thanks for posting that, although I don't really like what I see.

They stuck with the volume bar on the front panel, but at least it seems the volume number at the top right is now almost as big as the main digits (on my 1800 it's tiny and can only be read at half the distance of the main numbers). So if the volume numbers on the A series can be read from a reasonable distance it's not so bad.

The on-screen volume overlay would annoy me the most if it can't be turned off. As a minimum they should let you choose the location of the volume display (top or bottom of screen) and let you turn it OFF if you want to. Seems obvious. And that's exactly what Denon do.

It would also be interesting to know whether volume changes made from the web browser control interface also bring up the on-screen volume overlay just like the regular remote control does.
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post #203 of 8907 Old 09-01-2010, 10:52 PM
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I like the RX-A2000, also like Denon 4311 for its pre-amplifier status.
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post #204 of 8907 Old 09-02-2010, 12:42 PM
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The Aventage AVRs are not THX certified and do not include any THX modes, is that correct? What will we be missing?
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post #205 of 8907 Old 09-02-2010, 12:47 PM
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^ THX processing modes and a logo. I like THX and the assurance it can bring an un/under educated buyer, but when you get to levels like these with AVRs, you can be all but assured of pretty-solid amp sections and overall fidelity.

James

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Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

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post #206 of 8907 Old 09-02-2010, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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The Yamaha RX-V2600 was THX select 2 certified. It would not surprise me if the 1000-3000 models would meet the same spec.

I doubt they would meet ultra as there's no evidence they have more power than the 2600 did.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #207 of 8907 Old 09-02-2010, 01:40 PM
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Actually if they couldn't meet the Ultra parameter, they'd prolly skip it (THX cert) altogether I'd think with this line and it's price-points. Don't know how anxious they'd be to stick "just' a select badge on a $2000 AVR when others do it for a quarter of the cost.

I'd guess too that they'd just fall short to the Ultra spec.

James

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post #208 of 8907 Old 09-02-2010, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Actually if they couldn't meet the Ultra parameter, they'd prolly skip it (THX cert) altogether I'd think with this line and it's price-points. Don't know how anxious they'd be to stick "just' a select badge on a $2000 AVR when others do it for a quarter of the cost.

I'd guess too that they'd just fall short to the Ultra spec.

James

My thoughts exactly.

As for why Yamaha seems to have less power than Onkyo at some price points (based on some bench tests I have seen,) I can't say. Higher profit margins? Putting their money into other aspects? Your guess is as good as mine.

I feel the need to mention the obligatory comment - at some point, you are hitting the law of diminishing returns in power, so the real world difference in SPL is probably small.

If you think I am defending Yamaha on this, I hope I am not. I know Yamaha has it's weaknesses. It also has it's strengths. I feel the quality of at least some of it's stuff is high based on my personal experience.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #209 of 8907 Old 09-02-2010, 02:45 PM
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^^^

So I shouldn't assume that the Yamaha A2000 has a less able audio section than THX Select2 certified Pioneer Elite VSX-1120?
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post #210 of 8907 Old 09-02-2010, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddle View Post

^^^

So I shouldn't assume that the Yamaha A2000 has a less able audio section than THX Select2 certified Pioneer Elite VSX-1120?

Raddle,

No you should not assume that the Yamaha A2000 has a less able audio section than a THX certified component! I've had an AVR that had it and one that didn't and at this point I can't tell you how much is marketing and how much is performance.


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