Break in new receiver? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By Tulpa
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 25 Old 08-07-2010, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
spdracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just got my Pioneer VSX-920-K and I'm reading different opinions on this subject. Do you think it's necessary? I'm currently letting it play continuously from an fm/cable source at a moderate volume.
spdracer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 Old 08-07-2010, 12:58 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,951
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 118
As you noted, you will get multiple opinions on it.

I always wondered why people assumed, if there was a change, it was always better?

Some warmup time might be helpful. Because an amp is a feedback system and is subject to changes due to temperature, perhaps the amp works a bit closer to it's design after reaching equilibrium. Or not. I am guessing.

Because an amp is a feedback system, it's designed to deal with changing conditions such as the fact the resistance changes with temperature.

Note for example, that resistors won't have their exact rated values. Two transistors may not behave identically. And so forth. There's feedback built into the amp to deal with these issues.

Taking that into account, why would small changes to components upon break in an amp sound better? It was designed around the components having their rated parameters and assuming they would vary slightly.

"But this one goes up to 11"
MichaelJHuman is offline  
post #3 of 25 Old 08-07-2010, 01:47 PM
Senior Member
 
Tamas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Install a good alarm system as a deterrent to thieves.
Tamas is offline  
post #4 of 25 Old 08-07-2010, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
spdracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

As you noted, you will get multiple opinions on it.

I always wondered why people assumed, if there was a change, it was always better?

Some warmup time might be helpful. Because an amp is a feedback system and is subject to changes due to temperature, perhaps the amp works a bit closer to it's design after reaching equilibrium. Or not. I am guessing.

Because an amp is a feedback system, it's designed to deal with changing conditions such as the fact the resistance changes with temperature.

Note for example, that resistors won't have their exact rated values. Two transistors may not behave identically. And so forth. There's feedback built into the amp to deal with these issues.

Taking that into account, why would small changes to components upon break in an amp sound better? It was designed around the components having their rated parameters and assuming they would vary slightly.


Makes sense,One thing is that it's usually in a cool environment in the basement
spdracer is offline  
post #5 of 25 Old 08-07-2010, 02:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
croseiv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,654
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Yeah, it's funny how the "break-in" period always results in a positive improvement. But no, a receiver doesn't need a break-in time.
croseiv is offline  
post #6 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 07:58 AM
Advanced Member
 
Michael Sargent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Kemptville, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 889
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 38
If you buy something that "breaks in", it's also "wearing out".
Michael Sargent is offline  
post #7 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 09:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
EnergyOwner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 952
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I would treat the "break-in" time more like a "burn-in" test. Use it to ensure all the receiver's attributes are all functioning properly. If something is going to break, it will likely do it sooner rather than later.

The sleeper must awaken.
EnergyOwner is offline  
post #8 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
spdracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnergyOwner View Post

I would treat the "break-in" time more like a "burn-in" test. Use it to ensure all the receiver's attributes are all functioning properly. If something is going to break, it will likely do it sooner rather than later.

That's exactly what I've been doing.Basically the break in has consisted of normal usage of all the functions. so far so good.Watched Avatar last night on the new setup,first time I've ever heard hd audio. to say I was impressed would be a gross understatement
spdracer is offline  
post #9 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 11:12 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,951
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 118
I can't tell the difference between lossy and lossless audio*. I am surprised you hear a big difference.

* I used to be able to tell 128kbs MP3 vs 256kbs MP3 apart, but it was subtle. I had to listen carefully to cymbals, and listen for harshness. I doubt I would hear such subtleties in movies.

"But this one goes up to 11"
MichaelJHuman is offline  
post #10 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
spdracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I can't tell the difference between lossy and lossless audio*. I am surprised you hear a big difference.

* I used to be able to tell 128kbs MP3 vs 256kbs MP3 apart, but it was subtle. I had to listen carefully to cymbals, and listen for harshness. I doubt I would hear such subtleties in movies.

I think it's the subtleties that I noticed more and definitely the bass is cleaner and tighter than any dvd I've ever heard before. On a side note,I'm a big Clash fan myself.
spdracer is offline  
post #11 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 12:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
EnergyOwner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 952
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdracer View Post

I think it's the subtleties that I noticed more and definitely the bass is cleaner and tighter than any dvd I've ever heard before. On a side note,I'm a big Clash fan myself.

Could also be a result of the mixing desk rather than the fact that it is HD.

The sleeper must awaken.
EnergyOwner is offline  
post #12 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
spdracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnergyOwner View Post

Could also be a result of the mixing desk rather than the fact that it is HD.

Could you explain what the "mixing desk" is?
spdracer is offline  
post #13 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 03:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
jaball77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnergyOwner View Post

Could also be a result of the mixing desk rather than the fact that it is HD.

Yeah, I think that's more likely. I remember reading about a double blind test between Dolby Digital and TrueHD and the results were that only the sound editor could tell the difference. The other listeners couldn't do better than 50/50.

And breaking in a receiver is just silly. Even if there was a break-in effect, why wouldn't you just use the receiver as normal and let it break in while you're enjoying it?

I think the breaking in that occurs is your brain getting used to whatever you're listening to, not the gear itself.
jaball77 is offline  
post #14 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 04:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
EnergyOwner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 952
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdracer View Post

Could you explain what the "mixing desk" is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixing_console

The sleeper must awaken.
EnergyOwner is offline  
post #15 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 04:40 PM
Senior Member
 
kmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdracer View Post

Watched Avatar last night on the new setup,first time I've ever heard hd audio. to say I was impressed would be a gross understatement

It's my experience over the past few years that the user gets the breaking in....and every incremantal system upgrade afterward upgrades the user again. Trying not to repeat this break in cycle can be very difficult and the cycle time gets shorter too

Mike
_____________
I may be a rookie but I'm the expert at what sounds good to me.
kmike is offline  
post #16 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
spdracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaball77 View Post

Yeah, I think that's more likely. I remember reading about a double blind test between Dolby Digital and TrueHD and the results were that only the sound editor could tell the difference. The other listeners couldn't do better than 50/50.

And breaking in a receiver is just silly. Even if there was a break-in effect, why wouldn't you just use the receiver as normal and let it break in while you're enjoying it?

I think the breaking in that occurs is your brain getting used to whatever you're listening to, not the gear itself.

So if you can't hear the difference,why have so many people abandoned their old receivers and bought hdmi capable ones?
spdracer is offline  
post #17 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 05:17 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdracer View Post

So if you can't hear the difference,why have so many people abandoned their old receivers and bought hdmi capable ones?

Marketing (gotta have the latest even if I don't know what it is), convenience of one cable, 3D, if they were shopping for a new receiver almost all of them have HDMI now, perception of HDMI as the "highest" cable and best video, etc.
Tangled Cable likes this.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is online now  
post #18 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 05:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
jaball77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Marketing (gotta have the latest even if I don't know what it is), convenience of one cable, 3D, if they were shopping for a new receiver almost all of them have HDMI now, perception of HDMI as the "highest" cable and best video, etc.

Partly this, but also convenience. HDMI switching and upconverting receivers greatly reduce the number of wires you need to run between components. Before HDMI, the best connection was component + coaxial digital = 4 big cables. Now with HDMI you only need one smaller cable to carry both.
jaball77 is offline  
post #19 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 05:31 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaball77 View Post

Partly this, but also convenience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Marketing (gotta have the latest even if I don't know what it is), convenience of one cable, 3D, if they were shopping for a new receiver almost all of them have HDMI now, perception of HDMI as the "highest" cable and best video, etc.



Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is online now  
post #20 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 05:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
jaball77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post



lol. doh.
jaball77 is offline  
post #21 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
spdracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post



Hey; checked out your system pics,I have Athena F1's, centre channel,B1's for surrounds and a P400 sub. Love em! I'd post pics. of my setup if I knew how.
spdracer is offline  
post #22 of 25 Old 08-08-2010, 06:08 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 59
I hosted my pics on Photobucket.com and linked them here with image tags. It's free and really easy.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is online now  
post #23 of 25 Old 05-21-2012, 07:28 AM
Advanced Member
 
mfrey0118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:


However, before we properly start to dissect the product, put it back together, and find out that there’s a piece left over, we’ve got to explain why our review of the 609 has come considerably later than most. Why we’ve sat on the Onkyo (figuratively, although we don’t doubt that we could literally too – it’s built well enough) for a month or two before reviewing it…

The answer is simple: a fine amplifier or AV receiver is like a fine red wine; it matures with age. The screaming bastard you get out of the box may settle when fed a fine diet of delicate delights over time, and therefore find an audio tranquillity that an impatient reviewer might miss.

Equally, it may just explode into a shower of springs, dust and a single child’s shoe. Either way, it’s worth hanging on to find out.

Thankfully, after exacting enough restraint to get the best response, we can safely say that while the Onkyo TX-NR609 starts out on a solid footing, it gets better and better and better and… You get the picture. No explosions, no errors, not even a solitary aural blip – just quality sound and picture performance that belie its £500 price ticket.

http://alatest.com/topbar/38181642/-...581176%2C86%2F

60" 1080p 3D Plasma Panel
3D 1080p Blu-Ray player
4K 7.2 Channel AVR

mfrey0118 is offline  
post #24 of 25 Old 05-21-2012, 10:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Nethawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 115
It amazes me that even manufacturers promote break in times of their gear. I've been reading through the Wyred 4 Sound thread, as it's on a very short list of multichannel amps I'm interested in if I feel I need one (when speakers finally arrive). I forget the timeframe, but it's at least 100-300 hours they recommend to break in their amps. Oy! It has almost turned me off of their gear altogether.

I'm wondering whether manufacturer-advertised break in times directly correlates with 30 day satisfaction guarantees

Nethawk is offline  
post #25 of 25 Old 05-21-2012, 10:13 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:

dear me... what a bunch of drivel...

that "review" (using the term VERY loosely) is amusing, to say the least...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off