The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 23567 Old 09-12-2010, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

If I’m not mistaken the warranty is not transferable.

Technically it's not.

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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I just can't pay $1999 on pre-order for a 4311 knowing full-well it'll be 15-$1600 within 3 weeks.

Although J&R (and other authorized vendors) will list the pre-order price of full MSRP, it's unlikely that they will actually sell it at that price when the AVR is finally released. And even if they do, should another authorized vendor sell it for less within 2-4 weeks after the sale (varies by vendor), they would also likely price match and credit the difference to you so there's really no harm in pre-ordering from an authorized vendor.

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post #272 of 23567 Old 09-12-2010, 07:54 PM
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As is frequently said there's no reason to pay MSRP. You might have to mention a gray market price but it's likey someone will give you a deal if you call them.


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post #273 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 07:45 AM
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Many retailers offer pre-sales JUST to lock someone in at full MSRP. I ran into an online vendor (a larger, more reputable one, actually) that specifically would NOT price-adjust their pre-ordered products. Buyer beware.

And while I am not stating all of the vendors offering a pre-order will do the same, it seems like an unnecessary risk/move when you could simply check the site (or this thread) daily and order it the very day it arrives for the "pre-sale" shipment. Prolly mean one day (if not same day) arrival anyway.

Going back through the retailer (and in some cases, hoping) to be reimbursed for the price difference seems a bit daft to me, but welcome to America, where you're free to act how you choose.

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post #274 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Going back through the retailer (and in some cases, hoping) to be reimbursed for the price difference seems a bit daft to me ....

No reason to "hope" at all ... a retailer will tell you what their policy is before you place the pre-order as to whether they'll provide a credit if an authorized competitor sells it for less (eg. J&R will do this on their pre-order). Just spoke with Electronics Expo (authorized vendor who is not doing a pre-order but will be selling the 4311) and looks like the word is the 4311 likely won't be released until October now.

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post #275 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 08:34 AM
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Thanks JD, but on that article that I couldn't find it was saying it would be janurary. Crutchfield confirmed that on the new DBP 2011udci but I'm hoping that will not apply to the Amps.
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post #276 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

kee68,

The 5 year warranty is ok, but in my experience I've had very few components breakdown after the warranty period, which has normally been one year. So, I think a 3 year warranty is more than sufficient. As far as resale values, these features will most likely be in the AVR-4311CI replacement in a year or so. I personally wouldn't be worrying about resalel value of a product that will have dated technology. The A100 will only have resale value to a die hard Denon fan, which I am not. These anniversary editions are just a reason to charge customers more for incremental performance improvement that may only realized on the test bench. The A100 is too similar to the AVR-4311CI to warrant consideration in my personal purchase decision.

I'm still a little confused. In one breath you're talking about the length of the warranty and then resale value. If I'm not mistaken the warranty is not transferable. Pick one and just enjoy it.


Just my $.02.


Willie

Thanks Willie, all comments are appreciated but I think that a majority on this thread are Die hard Denon fans. The point I was thinking about (knowing electronics don't hold there value much) is if they make only a few and one was able to get one. The one's that missed out and latter you decide to upgrade it would be worth much more to a Die hard fan over a base model.
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post #277 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 09:14 AM
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Hey guys, just collecting my thoughts and hoping for some confirmation from reading about both the 3311CI and the new 4311CI here.

Basically I want to give DSX a go in all it's 'glory'. I've never had an external amp i just have a simple Denon 789 right now with 7.1 going.

What I need is:

-Run 5 HDMI components to 2 screens
-DSX capability
-3D support
-Cheapest solution possible!

and that's about it.

Basically I know I need an external amp for either of these units to get either 10.1 or 11.1. They both have pre-outs for a complete 11.2 speaker configuration.(?)

I'm thinking I may as well buy the 3311 for probably around $8-900 and get a 4 channel amp and save some money.

I want MULTEQ XT32 however I'm not sure it's worth probably doubling the cost of the receiver as it's the only feature I feel I would be missing. The 2 channel amp would probably be a small savings vs. the 4 channel amp I need with the 3310, however it wouldn't be nearly as significant.

Are there any facts about the features I mentioned that I have wrong? Anything you guys think I might be missing by passing on the 4311 given my very short list of needs?

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post #278 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 09:16 AM
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Quote:


They both have pre-outs for a complete 11.2 speaker configuration.(?)

No. The 3311 is 7.x max, the 4311 and the 4810 can do full 11.x. The 3311 does have extra speaker binding posts for hooking up extra channels, but can only ever play 7.x channels at once.

if you intend to go "beyond" 7.1 speakers, and you need 3D, the 4311 is your ONLY choice among Denon products.

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post #279 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 10:09 AM
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Yup pretty much after posting that i started reading "Width or Height". Then I looked closer at the fuzzy picture of the back of the 3311 and it's definitely missing the pre-outs.

what's the point of DSX then on a 7 channel AVR. I guess they say it's more beneficial to add the extra channels on the front... but it's just dissapointing I suppose.

Anyway, not sure how I missed that first time around... i guess I need to decide if I want to wait and spend WAY more money now on the 11 channels and xt32... or just settle for trying out 1/2 ass'd DSX and move my rear channels up front.

The 3311 just kinda seems boring now. If they would have added the 11 channels into the 4311 I would have absolutely waited.

They hate to make these decisions easy for us I suppose.

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post #280 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 10:11 AM
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[quote=Fishtank;19184266]
"-Basically I want to give DSX a go in all its 'glory'.
-3D support"

The 4311 is not only the cheapest solution, but the only solution as of right now (i.e. it's the only receiver which meets both of these requirements). The 3311 is 7.x max and 4810 is 'pre 3D'.

Tom
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post #281 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 10:13 AM
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Quote:


what's the point of DSX then on a 7 channel AVR.

two things:

1) you have the option of deploying your 7.x setup in different configurations. If you don't want to run the traditional 5.1+Surr.Back version of 7.1, you could choose instead to do a 5.1+WIDE setup. Just gives you options.

2) because the 3311 does have speaker posts for the extra DSX speakers, you can actually hook up 9 or even 11 speakers.... you just can only use 7 of them at once. So you could, theoretically, add both surr.back and height speakers, and switch between the the two 7.x configurations depending on program content.

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post #282 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

...you can actually hook up 9 or even 11 speakers.... you just can only use 7 of them at once. So you could, theoretically, add both surr.back and height speakers, and switch between the the two 7.x configurations depending on program content.

But can he do this "on-the-fly" or will he have to re-run Audyssey each time?
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post #283 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 10:28 AM
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on previous (xx10) Denons with DSX and only 7.x channels (i.e. 990, 3310 and 4310) you had to re-run Audyssey, because there was only one extra set of "amp assign" speaker posts.

on the new xx11 models (991 and 3311) with 7.x and DSX, they added extra speaker posts, and Audyssey will actually EQ all connected speakers. So, you can indeed switch "on the fly" between various 7.x configs.

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post #284 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 10:30 AM
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A bit OT, but even though I'm nearly salivating at the chance to go from 7.X to 11.X (the wife is too, lol), I just can't help but think of how long it'll be before CEM's roll out 13 and 15.X configs (rear/side width and/or rear/side height, center height, etc anyone, lol?) in home AVRs and we all calmly begin justifying and planning 13-15 speaker-arrays in our 400 sq-ft living rooms! I mean they have to get us something to tide us over for this: http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av...41833-2,00.htm

I of course jest now, but I can see myself in my larger space 2 years from now, soberly telling myself: "yeah, this can work if I knock down that wall, get rid of that cabinet, etc".

James

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post #285 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 10:31 AM
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thanks for the quick reply's guys.

My decision quickly changed to:

Do I want a 3311 now for a year or two until the 4312 comes out "probably" with 11 channels supported internally, and maybe yet another Audyssey revision...

Do I want a 4311 now, I don't really care about the rear S/B channels very much. I doubt Audyssey will add another revision so soon. If it turns out I do miss the SB channels once they are gone I can add a little amp....

I guess I'm going to hang around this thread for a while and see what type of deals/pricing is like when the 4311 comes out. I'm pretty impatient once I decide I need something new though! It starts to run my life!

Sad but true.

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post #286 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 10:38 AM
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^ You already know what you want, lol. You want a 4311 NOW, as well as to purchase an external 2 channel amp for your mains, and run 11.X.

Then, you'll want to upgrade in 18-36 months to the new 13/15 channel config I mentioned above.

You can thank me anytime for solving your problem.

BTW: the only "sadness" is depriving oneself of a happiness that's reasonably attained, even if it enjoys just a modicum of "social acceptance" (that's why there's tech-tools like me online...therapy by association).

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

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post #287 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

on previous (xx10) Denons with DSX and only 7.x channels (i.e. 990, 3310 and 4310) you had to re-run Audyssey, because there was only one extra set of "amp assign" speaker posts.

on the new xx11 models (991 and 3311) with 7.x and DSX, they added extra speaker posts, and Audyssey will actually EQ all connected speakers. So, you can indeed switch "on the fly" between various 7.x configs.

Good to know. I was aware that you could do it with the 4810 and not the 4310, but I didn't realize that the reason for it was as simple as that.
Thanks for the explanation.
Sometimes I wonder what these Denon threads would be like without your guidance BP.
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post #288 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

^ You already know what you want, lol. You want a 4311 NOW, as well as purchase an external 2 channel amp for your mains, and run 11.X.

Then, you'll want to upgrade in 18-36 months to the new 13/15 channel config I mentioned above.

You can thank me anytime for solving your problem.

BTW: the only "sadness" is depriving oneself of a happiness that's reasonably attained.

James


Well we pretty much agree!

I don't really feel as though I need separate amps however. I don't run huge speakers (Ascend Acoustics setup) and I'm quite happy with them... for now. I don't listen to music it's all gaming and movies...so it's all pretty much explosions and sound effects that I'm after. I built my own 15" SDX15 sub with 2500w behind it and I built some transducers as well.

I never approach reference level volume I'm not sure how you people manage to do that! I think all my windows would explode at once at the same time something did on screen. I really do like an immersive sound field... at least I attempt to create one, and I do really like how the entry level audyssey sounded on my 789.

But yeah after digesting my newb assumptions about the 3311, I pretty much have to wait for the 4311. Good thing I'm picking up my new projector tomorrow! Should help with the wait when hunting for a deal on this thing.

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post #289 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 11:04 AM
 
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Lets hope MULTEQ XT32 works with the denon, which is not the case in the rushed to market onkyo 3008/5008. Maybe onkyo rushed to beat denon to the MULTEQ XT32 punch, It didn't turn out to good for onkyo. Denon are you reading this, as denon released FW track record is far from perfect.
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post #290 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

The ABT 2015 I believe, which is more than capable.

James

Is this confirmed?
No mention of Anchor Bay in any of the available docs or specs.
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post #291 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 11:25 AM
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Lets hope MULTEQ XT32 works with the denon, which is not the case in the rushed to market onkyo 3008/5008. Maybe onkyo rushed to beat denon to the MULTEQ XT32 punch, It didn't turn out to good for onkyo. Denon are you reading this, as denon released FW track record is far from perfect.

This is true, my 789 and a flawed MULTIEQ implementation. I had to take it to a denon service center.

Having said that... I bought this receiver used from a person for cash. It was about a year and a half old from the Manufacturing date. I had no proof of purchase.

I asked Denon to fix it for free, they said yes.

I also asked Denon to let me take it down the street to someone who isn't an authorized repair center, they said yes.

They even sent this place the adapter needed to do the update.

This was Denon Canada, mileage may vary in other countries I suppose but they definitely earned my next purchase with service like that. Until they really do something wrong to me I might not ever try another AVR brand!

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post #292 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
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Well we pretty much agree!

I don't really feel as though I need separate amps however. I don't run huge speakers (Ascend Acoustics setup) and I'm quite happy with them... for now. I don't listen to music it's all gaming and movies...so it's all pretty much explosions and sound effects that I'm after. I built my own 15" SDX15 sub with 2500w behind it and I built some transducers as well.

I never approach reference level volume I'm not sure how you people manage to do that! I think all my windows would explode at once at the same time something did on screen. I really do like an immersive sound field... at least I attempt to create one, and I do really like how the entry level audyssey sounded on my 789.

But yeah after digesting my newb assumptions about the 3311, I pretty much have to wait for the 4311. Good thing I'm picking up my new projector tomorrow! Should help with the wait when hunting for a deal on this thing.

Sounded like you wanted 11.X, which would require at least 2 channels of external amplification.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #293 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 11:33 AM
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Is this confirmed?
No mention of Anchor Bay in any of the available docs or specs.

I thought someone had posted a pic of the 100 or 4311's internals with the chip clearly visible? Where they would have got this image from is a question I do not have the answer to.

I guess there's no "official" confirmation, but I for one would be shocked if it was anything but the 2015.

James

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Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

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post #294 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 11:33 AM
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Sounded like you wanted 11.X, which would require at least 2 channels of external amplification.

James

I know, I do... but I really want the W and H channels the most. SB channels are ok, ah but as I'm typing this I now remember that you have to add external amplifier for either your F or H channels. As you found out earlier in the thread you can't assign internal amps to any channel you want.

So yes you were right... I'm getting an external amp as well for 11.x. I was willing to live without the SB channel and see how it goes... but that's not happening either I suppose.

Not ideal IMO... but it is what it is. Maybe my buddy will give me one of his older Carver's he has sitting around.

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post #295 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

Is this confirmed?
No mention of Anchor Bay in any of the available docs or specs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GangGreenD View Post

If you zoom in on the picture of the internal components, you can see the ABT 2015 chip.


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post #296 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 11:41 AM
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I know, I do... but I really want the W and H channels the most. SB channels are ok, ah but as I'm typing this I now remember that you have to add external amplifier for either your F or H channels.

that is true ONLY if you are running 11ch mode. If you are only running 9 channels, you CAN absolutely use the internal amps in any 9ch config you want (including H + W).

so you ONLY have to buy an extra 2ch amp if you want to run 11.x. If you are willing to remove the surr.back speakers, you don't have to buy an extra amp to run 5.1+W+H.

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post #297 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 11:46 AM
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^ yep. Only us 11.xers suffer a bit, lol.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

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post #298 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 11:46 AM
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lol

I don't know if it's just one of those days but I'm starting to feel really slow.

Alright I think I'm sorted now batpig + mastermaybe + everyone else.

4311CI it is.

Now I'm just going to wait quietly with the rest of you.

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post #299 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

.

Excellent.

Now why D&M doesn't make a AVP based on this platform vs the AV7005 is beyond me.
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post #300 of 23567 Old 09-13-2010, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

Excellent.

Now why D&M doesn't make a AVP based on this platform vs the AV7005 is beyond me.

Agreed.

Some surmise that a Marantz AV8005 (e.g. THX, DSD, MultEQ XT32, discrete DACs, torroid) will follow a few months after the AV7005. Regardless, I hope D&M produces a stellar pre/pro at the <$2500 level to challenge the Onkyo/Integra hegemony.

AJ
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