The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 104 - AVS Forum

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Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Spongebob38's Avatar Spongebob38
08:35 PM Liked: 14
post #3091 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 70
Joined: Jun 2004
4311 arrived tonight via UPS
FedEx scheduled to deliver XPA-5 tomorrow

A busy day ahead setting everything up. Hopefully no blu-rain issues or audio dropouts.
mariob33's Avatar mariob33
08:39 PM Liked: 24
post #3092 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,713
Joined: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong
On the video convert setting have we definitively concluded whether to leave it ON or OFF?

I know that with it OFF I don't get the menu and volume overlays.

Also, since I mainly watch blurays which is natively 1080p will the video convert ON still be doing any processing?
If you look back through these posts several have posted that video convert on is doing something. In my testing I was able replicate the blue rain and a shift in color with video convert on and ip scale off as well as game mode. This is contrary to my experience with the 4810. However, if video convert is off there is no negative impact aside from volume/GUI overlays. I have read of a fw update on the A100 but am not home for a bit(dang job thing)to see if this corrects any of my issues.
djos's Avatar djos
08:44 PM Liked: 11
post #3093 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,229
Joined: Feb 2005
Does anyone know if the 4311's IR codes are the same as the 4310's?

I have my 4311 on order and my MX-810 has about 4 devices worth of 4310 codes but no 4311 codes as yet.
SeattleHTGuy's Avatar SeattleHTGuy
08:44 PM Liked: 43
post #3094 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,588
Joined: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob38
4311 arrived tonight via UPS
FedEx scheduled to deliver XPA-5 tomorrow

A busy day ahead setting everything up. Hopefully no blu-rain issues or audio dropouts.
Good luck and congrats.... having said that, this thread is out of control on the audio drop out issues. If you read back, a few have had issue with problems other than cable boxes. All the other problems are EDID cable box handshake related. This occurs when you have your cable box set to output in some type of "native" format. so, to actually be helpful..... If you have a drop out problem that occurs from multiple sources, any source otherthan a cable box set at "native", or some other obscure one off solution..... By all means, let us know. Perhaps we can help or at least quickly agree your unit needs to be deep sixed. I try and read this thread often and there are not that many people with audio drops and many don't tell us it's related to a piss poor cable box.

Now, after I mellow a touch. If you want an AVR to work flawlessly with a cable box/Tivo and have the source output native and have no drops. don't buy a Denon AVR. buy something that does not drop. You most likely will never get s firmware update that fixes this long time Denon issue. I know you don't care if it's the Denon or the throw away cable box. Just get something that works with your box.
mariob33's Avatar mariob33
08:46 PM Liked: 24
post #3095 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,713
Joined: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy
Let's keep it fun. Since we've all determined the remote is one ugly beast and I've actually used it a bit. Anyone brave enough to admit it actually works quite well and is laid out much better than previous models. I think it's not very puuuuurty but do find it does the dirty work well and supports my Harmony 1100 nicely. So..... What do you despise and like about the thing.

Me like.... Dynamic Volume Toggle
Direct source keys, smallish size. Lit middle and upper section.
It works and makes sense.

Me no like.

squishy sort of buttons
Most important EQ and Volume buttons are not lit.
Stupid LCD panel should be a color panel and backlit better.
denon ( as should every AVR manufacturer) should just throw in the towel here and license logitech for a preprogrammed Harmony as an additional $100 option.
A nice harmony remote would easily get another $100-$150 from me. However, i did like the shiny face : o ) of the stock remote with the A100. Is the remote with the 4311 and the A100 different?
bodosom's Avatar bodosom
08:54 PM Liked: 22
post #3096 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 6,395
Joined: Aug 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by djos View Post

Does anyone know if the 4311's IR codes are the same as the 4310's?

I started with the 4810 (some inputs have them same code but different names). I'm still hoping for an update from URC this year but it's not necessary.
djos's Avatar djos
09:03 PM Liked: 11
post #3097 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
I started with the 4810 (some inputs have them same code but different names). I'm still hoping for an update from URC this year but it's not necessary.
Thanks for the info.
bodosom's Avatar bodosom
09:05 PM Liked: 22
post #3098 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 6,395
Joined: Aug 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post
If you want an AVR to work flawlessly with a cable box/Tivo and have the source output native and have no drops. don't buy a Denon AVR.
My reading of the issues suggests that you've had a problem with a TiVo. I don't see anything that suggests there's a generic 4311 + STB problem. I certainly don't have a problem with either of my two very different boxes both of which run in native mode and output everything from 480i to 1080p24 video in 5.1 and 2.0 audio.

People with problems need to methodically assess them because there's no one-size-fits-all solution.
streetsmart88's Avatar streetsmart88
09:06 PM Liked: 11
post #3099 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 725
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjfink View Post
Do I give up anything going the 4311 route instead of the SVS + 3311? Is the SVS "better" at SubEQ, or is the 4311 using the same software/DSP?
They use the same technology. Having said that ...

The advantage of the SVS AS-EQ1 is that you can use it with any AVR, including one that does not have Audyssey MultEQ. Also, it can do 32 mic positions rather than just 8.

The advantage of the 4311 is that you do the equalization only once for all speakers and subs (with the EQ1, you need to do the eq for the subs and other speakers separately). Furthermore, the 4311 eq speed is incredibly fast!

Mark
Johnla's Avatar Johnla
09:12 PM Liked: 24
post #3100 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 11,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post
A nice harmony remote would easily get another $100-$150 from me.
No matter how good or what kind of remote a manufacturer supplies as OEM remote for their product, it's also very unlikely that everyone would like it enough to pay a additional $100-$150.
mariob33's Avatar mariob33
09:18 PM Liked: 24
post #3101 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,713
Joined: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla

No matter how good or what kind of remote a manufacturer supplies as OEM remote for their product, it's also very unlikely that everyone would like it enough to pay a additional $100-$150.
Someone is buying all these Harmony remotes? They sure aren't doing it for cable/sat.
SeattleHTGuy's Avatar SeattleHTGuy
09:49 PM Liked: 43
post #3102 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,588
Joined: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post


My reading of the issues suggests that you've had a problem with a TiVo. I don't see anything that suggests there's a generic 4311 + STB problem. I certainly don't have a problem with either of my two very different boxes both of which run in native mode and output everything from 480i to 1080p24 video in 5.1 and 2.0 audio.

People with problems need to methodically assess them because there's no one-size-fits-all solution.

bodosom. It is a hyper documented issue with the TiVo 3 and 4310' 4810' 3310' and others. Just search these threads. Also the same with certain cable boxes. I guess documenting is good but first, if you have an issue search AVS with say, your cable box name, model #, EDID, Denon. You'll get all you need. believe me, my audio drops on the Tivo are old, old, old news.

If you do not believe, ask the guru.... batpig!
Johnla's Avatar Johnla
10:04 PM Liked: 24
post #3103 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 11,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

Someone is buying all these Harmony remotes? They sure aren't doing it for cable/sat.

And yet not everyone likes the Harmony line of remotes. And yes, you can definitely count me as one who don't! There are other options out their besides what Harmony sells. I have remotes made by both URC and Harmony, and I much prefer the URC way of doing things.
djos's Avatar djos
10:15 PM Liked: 11
post #3104 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnla View Post

and yet not everyone likes the harmony line of remotes. And yes, you can definitely count me as one who don't! There are other options out their besides what harmony sells. I have remotes made by both urc and harmony, and i much prefer the urc way of doing things.

+1
djos's Avatar djos
10:21 PM Liked: 11
post #3105 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,229
Joined: Feb 2005
re: the Tivo 3 + Denon native video issues, does this include Tivo HD's and if yes does the 4311 have the DVDO PReP* style capabilities?

*Progressive ReProcessing technology
mariob33's Avatar mariob33
10:23 PM Liked: 24
post #3106 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,713
Joined: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post


And yet not everyone likes the Harmony line of remotes. And yes, you can definitely count me as one who don't! There are other options out their besides what Harmony sells. I have remotes made by both URC and Harmony, and I much prefer the URC way of doing things.

I alway hear of urc being step behind to add new devices, true or false? What is a decent model reco for use? Would like to spend less tan 500.
FilmMixer's Avatar FilmMixer
10:26 PM Liked: 593
post #3107 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 6,909
Joined: Oct 1999
Received my replacement 4311 today.. no sure if it will be opened or not.

However, I can confirm an October build date and serial # in the 1600's.
SeattleHTGuy's Avatar SeattleHTGuy
10:31 PM Liked: 43
post #3108 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,588
Joined: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by djos View Post


+1

I here ya but I have a URC remote as well. It cost $800 and; get this.... Can only work with Win XP. The vendor went bye bye and I can't get access to new codes. URC refuses to update it to work with Vista or Win 7. In fact, this lack of support is one of the worst examples i have ever experienced in screwing the end customer. It works great and makes sense but it's basically a dated small brick.Luckily it powers my family room system with a Denon 3806 and I don't care much about sound, technology, or anything else. Harmonys are simply more main stream and less expensive. I am not an idiot on this stuff having owned a Color Pronto, URC, and three harmony's. URC support blows.
djos's Avatar djos
10:31 PM Liked: 11
post #3109 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

I alway hear of urc being step behind to add new devices, true or false? What is a decent model reco for use? Would like to spend less tan 500.

URC might be a bit slower at updating their DB than Harmony but the Remotes themselves and programming software are light years a head in the quality department!
djos's Avatar djos
10:32 PM Liked: 11
post #3110 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

I here ya but I have a URC remote as well. It cost $800 and; get this.... Can only works with Win XP. The vendor went bye bye and I can't get access to new codes. URC refuses tovupdate it to work with Vista or Win 7. In faxt, this lack of support is one of the worst examples i have ever experienced in screwing the end customer. It works great and makes sense but it's basically a dated small brick.Luckily it powers my family room system with a Denon 3806 and I don't care much about sound, technology, or anything else. Harmonys are simply more main stream and less expensive.

I can Help with that problem, PM on the way.
SeattleHTGuy's Avatar SeattleHTGuy
10:34 PM Liked: 43
post #3111 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,588
Joined: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by djos View Post


I can Help with that problem, PM on the way.

Cool. I retract stuff happily with help.
djos's Avatar djos
10:44 PM Liked: 11
post #3112 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 1,229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

Cool. I retract stuff happily with help.

Btw you are correct, URC's support to Joe Public is frankly awful, im just lucky I have a source for their Software.
Johnla's Avatar Johnla
11:33 PM Liked: 24
post #3113 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 11,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

I alway hear of urc being step behind to add new devices, true or false? What is a decent model reco for use? Would like to spend less tan 500.

Step behind, no! Considering that you must also wait for Harmony to add codes to their database, or in some cases that you must even supply them with the codes before they can be added to you Harmony. Where I can directly import Pronto ccf codes and convert them and then the add codes myself without waiting for URC to put them in a database, I can create and program macros to pretty much work anyway I want them to, they also are one of the best when it comes to having discrete codes in their database. So just how is that a step behind?

However be warned!

If you buy a URC from a unauthorized source, that you could very well be left out on your own and hung out to dry as far as getting any updated software or remote codes! URC is absolutely brutal in their stance against unauthorized sellers, and they pretty much enforce it by not allowing buyers who bought from a unauthorized seller any easy way to get the versions of their software that has the Live Update feature enabled.
Also, the URC programming software does not hold your hand like Harmony does. So for some people, there can be a rather steep learning curve before they get comfortable with the URC programming software. But on the other side, the URC software also allows you do much more, and it also gives more freedom and flexibilities than Harmony software does.

But regardless of all that. When it comes to going in a different direction over what is a supplied OEM remote. Then I want the choice to be mine on what optional type of remote to use. And not being forced to pay a additional $150 overall for a product, just so some may get a remote that they might like, when I do not like it or do not want it. Let the manufactures supply their products with OEM remotes for the lowest cost as possible to the end user, and let the end users decide to choose their own ways to go with a better remote.
Johnla's Avatar Johnla
11:34 PM Liked: 24
post #3114 of 23775
11-09-2010 | Posts: 11,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

I here ya but I have a URC remote as well. It cost $800 and; get this.... Can only work with Win XP. The vendor went bye bye and I can't get access to new codes. URC refuses to update it to work with Vista or Win 7. In fact, this lack of support is one of the worst examples i have ever experienced in screwing the end customer. It works great and makes sense but it's basically a dated small brick.Luckily it powers my family room system with a Denon 3806 and I don't care much about sound, technology, or anything else. Harmonys are simply more main stream and less expensive. I am not an idiot on this stuff having owned a Color Pronto, URC, and three harmony's. URC support blows.

Unfortunately it looks you are a victim of URC's extremely hard line stance against unauthorized people selling URC remotes. I bought mine authorized, was able to D/L the version of their software w/Live update that also provides software updates along with new codes, and have had no such software issues at all.
Access Denied's Avatar Access Denied
12:38 AM Liked: 10
post #3115 of 23775
11-10-2010 | Posts: 61
Joined: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

I just checked with DenonJeff ....

The A100 firmware update involves some GUI issue fixes and using Party Mode Plus when networking. The 4311 is apparently not effected.

Can DenonJeff shed any light regarding the issues seen on both units? Firmware fix or defective units? Jeff?
tallnick's Avatar tallnick
12:43 AM Liked: 17
post #3116 of 23775
11-10-2010 | Posts: 430
Joined: Sep 2010
can someone using two subs give a quick review of Audyssey XT32 dual sub EQ?
it sounds awesome, does it work as advertised?

anyone using dual svs pc13-ultras?
batpig's Avatar batpig
01:04 AM Liked: 1589
post #3117 of 23775
11-10-2010 | Posts: 25,007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

On the video convert setting have we definitively concluded whether to leave it ON or OFF?

on a properly functioning unit it shouldn't matter; in general you would leave it on to preserve GUI / volume overlay.

Quote:


Also, since I mainly watch blurays which is natively 1080p will the video convert ON still be doing any processing?

well, it has to (by definition) be doing SOME processing if it is overlaying graphics like a volume bar or GUI.... but it should not result in any visible degradation of the image.

don't take the "blue rain" complaints to mean that it is correct to turn video processing off. that is a DEFECT and should not guide decision making for configuring your settings on a properly functioning unit.
batpig's Avatar batpig
01:10 AM Liked: 1589
post #3118 of 23775
11-10-2010 | Posts: 25,007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

No and yes. 9 amps 11 channels. It can only power 9 so you gotta pick which 9. you can have da fronts powered or you can have da Heights. Not both.

this is only true if you are running 11 channels. you have to remember that not everyone is doing that

Quote:


So, really only one amp is truly assignable and switches between heights and fronts.

again this is only in 11ch mode for "amp assign". There are FOUR assignable amp channels; the 5.1 "core" channels are locked in, but the other four channels can power Height + Wide, Height + Zone 2, Zone 2 + Zone 3, Wide + Surr. Back, etc.
batpig's Avatar batpig
01:15 AM Liked: 1589
post #3119 of 23775
11-10-2010 | Posts: 25,007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I think I've read about black level offsets w/other receivers (don't remember which).

OK, but that doesn't really answer my question.


Quote:


Not a good thing, but as long as it's constant I don't think it's a big deal;

didn't say it was a big deal... but again, not really relevant to the question.

I wasn't passing judgement... my point is to find out if there is something systematic about these video problems.

I've never known any Denon to F up the video pass through, but before we declare it so, people should be a little more rigorous about determining the extent of these problems and hopefully enhance our collective knowledge. Do the people who aren't experiencing any problems note any black level shifts when comparing with a test pattern? And have the people who think they are experiencing a black level shift verified it with test patterns?
Johnla's Avatar Johnla
01:36 AM Liked: 24
post #3120 of 23775
11-10-2010 | Posts: 11,519
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In the dedicated Audyssey thread, here is another person with a 4311 who also has the Audyssey Pro kit. And his review of the results after running the Audyssey Pro calibration on his 4311.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post19463312

I think it's probably safe to say, that he gives the addition of running the Audyssey Pro calibration on a 4311, a big thumbs up.
Tags: Audyssey , Denon Avr 4311ci 9 2 Channel Network Multi Room Home Theater Receiver With Hdmi 1 4a , Denon Avr A100 100th Anniversary 9 2 140w , Denon

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