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2M views 25K replies 1K participants last post by  TheVolumnus1 
#1 ·

Hard to believe with all the buzz going on that no-one has bothered to open a thread on what looks to be a killer-receiver (to me at least)...

So here goes!




My first question would be the following:


We already know that this receiver will be 11.2 capable with external amplification, but will the internal amps be assignable?


If not, you'll probably be stuck using the internal amps for your 9.2 setup (including your mains) and adding the external amp for a wide/height/SB channel (whatever Denon decides).


If yes, which I much prefer, the 2 added channels of external amplification could be assignable to the front speakers for instance.

This way you could set-up your system with a quality external amp for your mains and keep the internal amps for the remaining speakers...


I admit, I've been out of the game for quite some time (still the owner of an AVR-3801 currently! Hence the interest in the 4311 ) so apologies in advance if I'm missing the obvious here, but at this point it's the only thing unclear to me.



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EDIT:

Batpig suggested it would be a good idea to make a FAQ section in the first post of this thread and who am I to refuse.

So here goes, the first little FAQ trivia, courtesy of batpig.

Special thx goes out to jdsmoothie for keeping me informed on the FW updates!!!

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FAQ

Where can I find more info on this behemoth?
http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/5414.asp


What is the difference between the 4311ci and the A100?

A100 gets the following over 4311:


- Gloss Finish

- 100th Anniversary badge

- 100th anniversary block condensers

- Gold plated terminals

- Premium upgraded speaker binding posts

- Cast iron feet

- 5 year warranty

- Brand history book

- Inspection sheet

- fancy box

In terms of processing / amps / internals they are otherwise identical.

Which possible combinations of internal and external amps are there?

- You can have ANY combination of internal and external amps. You can power 5 speakers with external amps and 4 with internal... you can power 3 with external and 8 with internal.... you can power 2 with external and 9 with internal.... 9 with external and 2 with internal.... IT'S ALL GOOD. The ONLY thing you can't do is power 11 speakers internally...... because there are only 9 amps built in!


- The ONLY exception is that, because the receiver only has 9 amps built in, when you activate 11 channel mode, the receiver forces you to choose whether the FIRST TWO extra channels will be the heights or the front L/R mains.

How do I activate the preouts?

- You do not need to activate anything. When you are in 11ch mode, ALL THE PREOUTS ARE HOT at all times. You don't have to assign anything or set anything beyond the selection for the first two externally amped channels, the preouts are ALL HOT.

Then what is preamp mode for?

- PREAMP MODE however disconnects the signal from ALL the amps, so you should ONLY use this mode if you are using ONLY external amps for all channels. You cannot "shut off" specific amps internally, so if you will be using any of the internal amps for the main zone, you cannot use PREAMP mode.


A100 Firmware Updates
1. GUI issue fixes and using Party Mode Plus when networking
2. Audio drop out issues (12/22/10)
3. "Blue rain" video issue resolved (1/24/2011)
4. See items added below (7/1/11)
- Last.fm for German. (E2 only)
- It fails in the DPMS update of the firmware when the product is connected with "Control4".
- When Page Up/Down is done in the music list of iRadio, the product is frozen.
- When network connection speed is slow, the error occurs in the display of the FL tube.
- There is a case that the backup data of the parameter etc. initializes.
- There is a case where the network doesn't start.
- When the NSE command of AMX is sent, the data of the answer is wrong.
5. See items below (7/30/11)
- Allow connectivity to new Rhapsody servers
- Improve network connectivity
6. Allow connectivity to Pandora servers (12/19/12)

Note: If you have installed the Airplay firmware upgrade, the firmware version number on your unit will be incremented by 0001.



4311CI Firmware Updates
1. Fixes Party Mode feature, Pop Up menu function, USB functionality and also to the IP/232 controllability.
2. Audio drop out issues (12/22/10)
3. "Blue rain" video issue resolved (1/24/2011)
4. See A100 updates (7/1/11)
5. See A100 updates (7/30/11)
6. See A100 update (12/19/12)

Note: If you have installed the Airplay firmware upgrade, the firmware version number on your unit will be incremented by 0001.
 
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#62 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghstudio /forum/post/19154431


I happened on a 4310 today at bestbuy and put my hand on top of it to see how much heat it generates. The top was very warm....and it was not playing anything, so amps were at idle.


Hopefully the 4311 will run much cooler with the amps turned off. It's just about the only thing I'm worried about on the 4311. The UMC-1 and my prior Lexicon ran very cool as does my class D amp. The hottest part of my system is the 52" LCD HDTV.

If I had to guess I would think the 4311 would be warmer because they are adding 2 amps to it. I am sure once you turn off the amps it will reduce the temperature. It is gonna be a lot to expect from a receiver to have 9 x 140 watts and not be warm to the touch. Just make sure your cabinet has good air flow.
 
#63 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a /forum/post/19154848


So pandora doesn't have like radio stations like vtuner?

Would it be possible to use vtuner via the denon or something on my ht? I don't like pandora how you already have to know bands names and stuff.

well, that's what Pandora is! it's kinda the whole point of the thing



sounds like you just want to listen to internet radio....
 
#64 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldiablos /forum/post/19155319


If I had to guess I would think the 4311 would be warmer because they are adding 2 amps to it. I am sure once you turn off the amps it will reduce the temperature. It is gonna be a lot to expect from a receiver to have 9 x 140 watts and not be warm to the touch. Just make sure your cabinet has good air flow.

a lot of the heat is also generated by the digital processing boards (video chips, HDMI board) so I highly doubt it will be totally cool even in pre-amp mode.


regardless, if it's a bit warm when it's on, who cares? I mean, really? it's one thing if it's boiling hot, but it's basically normal for electronics to run slightly warm.
 
#65 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength /forum/post/19151651


As far as I know, the three sub outs on the 4810CI are nothing more than one sub out in triplicate (i.e. same signal, three outputs). The dual sub outs on the 4311CI/A100 can be, at the very least, independently time aligned. They may also offer separate L/R output, separate EQ, and/or separate crossovers.

I highly, highly doubt the subs will have separate L/R stereo output. Chris (audyssey) has already stated that it will work like the external Sub EQ, pinging each sub separately (pre-Audyssey) to time/level align, and then pinging them as a summed unit during the actual Audyssey run at the various positions for EQ'ing.


It also will not have "separate crossovers" as this is nonsensical with the way Denon bass management works. The crossover is set on the SPEAKER, not the subwoofers; there is no "subwoofer crossover". If, say, you set your Front L/R speakers at a 60Hz, crossover, everything below that will go to the mono subwoofer channel.


So, you will get (1) independent time alignment (distance/delay setting), (2) independent level alignment (volume), and then (3) summed EQ filtering. This is what Audyssey's research indicates is the best method and it is the way their external Sub EQ works by default...
 
#66 ·
Yeah I don't like how the pandora I know you have to know the bands name first. I don't know many as I am only interested in a handful of bands. I know I do want to find more though.


I bought the onkyo 807 several months ago. The ui was buggy and it didn't work when you use re remote in the Internet radio area. Only sometimes would it register you wanna go down or up etc. So I took it back for refund.


It had something that gave me tons of radio like stations. It grouped by state or category like genre or something. I found an oldies station that was drama not music. Like umm I'm not sure what it's called where they just talk but it's like a movie only for radio. It was a neat station to listen to. I want this in my avr or at least a way to listen through my avr/ht.
 
#67 ·

Quote:
Yeah I don't like how the pandora I know you have to know the bands name first. I don't know many as I am only interested in a handful of bands. I know I do want to find more though.

this is actually the point of Pandora -- you start with what you KNOW you like, and then it suggests other songs / bands that are considered to be "similar" according to the research of the Music Genome project.


So, if you only know a few bands you like, you start from there and then let Pandora make "suggestions" on similar stuff that you might also like. So, just start with one band that you love.... use the thumbs up/down (like/dislike) to refine your preferences... it's pretty cool and works very well
you may even discover new bands that you really like that you may never have heard of!
 
#68 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig /forum/post/19156307


It also will not have "separate crossovers" as this is nonsensical with the way Denon bass management works. The crossover is set on the SPEAKER, not the subwoofers; there is no "subwoofer crossover".

In my particular setup, what would be NICE would be to have separate LFE "crossovers", just so I could limit the upper range out of the 2nd output. But I realize that's wishful thinking. But the more realisitc wish I have is being able to EQ with just one sub, then enable the 2nd one without EQ'ing it.
 
#69 ·

Quote:
what would be NICE would be to have separate LFE "crossovers", just so I could limit the upper range out of the 2nd output.

there is really not much LFE content between 80-120Hz so IMHO it's not really a "problem" in real world use.

Quote:
But the more realisitc wish I have is being able to EQ with just one sub, then enable the 2nd one without EQ'ing it.

why the heck would you want that??
 
#70 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig /forum/post/19156491


why the heck would you want that??

I'd use the 2nd output for my tactile transducers. There's no sense in applying the sub's EQ curve to them, since its response is completely unrelated to the shakers, and there's no way to EQ them automatically. That's why a separate LFE setting would be nice... I prefer to have them rolled off above 20hz.
 
#71 ·
ahhh, the old butt-shakers
I'm with you now!


Audyssey will not apply any EQ filters below the measured roll-off of the subwoofer, so it probably will not be doing any EQ'ing in the "butt shaker region". For example, if your regular sub's -3dB point is measured to be 27Hz, Audyssey will taper off the correction below that point (assuming the transducers are not connected during the Audyssey measurements), so if the butt-shakers are only playing sub-20Hz, no correction will be applied.


You do not get the benefit of a separate LPF for the transducers, but don't they kind of roll off naturally above a certain point?
 
#72 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig /forum/post/19156659


You do not get the benefit of a separate LPF for the transducers, but don't they kind of roll off naturally above a certain point?

Well, this is probably more detail than necessary for this thread, but just to justify my desires:
they don't roll off enough for my taste. I prefer to limit them to the infrasonics, as that just seems more natural to me. Having the room vibrate just because the guy on the news has a deep voice just doesn't seem right.
I have buttkickers in the floor, and bass shakers in the furniture. The buttkickers aren't too bad, but the bass shakers have a natural resonance around 40hz, which is WAY too high for me. I use both channels of a BFD to EQ them separately, and I also have an inline low pass filter upstream of the BFD to help roll things off (in addition to some significant cuts with the BFD). I was hoping with the 4311 maybe I could simplify things a tad. If nothing else, I'll be able to get rid of the Y cable. FWIW, my sub has a -3d point around 11.5hz, so it could dip into the shaker region a bit. Fortunately though, most of my EQ needs are in the higher ranges, so Audyssey doesn't do much down there.
 
#73 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig /forum/post/19142270


I think when you are worried about bi-amping Zone 2 you are officially at the outer limits of what consumers could possibly want in terms of amp assign flexibility



I will note that you actually CAN bi-amp the secondary speakers if you are willing to run them as "B" speakers. Obviously you would lose the ability to do true "zone" audio with separate sources in the two rooms, but you can do "Front B Bi-Amp" and set up the nicer B&W in-walls as dedicated 2-ch music speakers with two amps each.


Or, just keep using the Carver amp, which is not only free, but is almost certainly more powerful than even bi-amping from an AVR. A receiver's amp section isn't going to stand up to a Carver pro amp.

Indeed it is free. It 's also very loud so although it's in an AV closet whenever the door is left open you can hear it.


The bigger problem historically has been the lack of digital in to zone 2 on my existing 4306. Something I'm very much looking forward to is to being able to run AirPlay into the 4311 or A100 and have access to a real pre-amp before the Carver Pro. I can then get volume control etc., from the Denon without having to rely on iTunes Remote app.


So, I'm good. Of course what I asked about was very far from the norm BUT if the amps were truly universally assignable I would have had another option.
 
#77 ·
things I noticed browsing the manual (no particular order):


- 4-ohm support confirmed (there is a "speaker impedance" setting with 4/6/8 as options, pg 98 of the manual)


- GUI looks the same as with the 4310/4810 models (and still will not overlay on 3D content)


- there is NO "free assign" function (as in the 4810) but, when the amp is in "pre-amp" mode (pg62) you can still use internal amps to power Zone 2/3 speakers (Zone 2 will run off "surr.back" and Zone 2 will run off "front wide"). Commence the teeth-gnashing from James!



- following up on this, when in "11.2" mode, you can select whether to use an external amp for front wide or front height.


- Dolby Volume is there (pg 91) but when you turn it on, it automatically turns MultEQ XT 32 off! So, you cannot combine the eq filters of Audyssey with the volume leveling of Dolby Volume.


- you can select which of the dual HDMI monitor outputs gets the "standby passthrough" signal (pg 99) using the "Control Monitor" setting. Not something I would use but pretty cool
 
#78 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig /forum/post/19157759


when in "11.2" mode, you can select whether to use an external amp for front wide or front height.

CRAP! Why'd they have to limit it THAT much? I already power my rear channels externally, because I send rear L/R to another DLPII receiver to further process the rears into 5 channels. So now to get 11 channels, I'm going to have to get an external amp, while two of the amp channels in the 4311 sit idle.


Quote:
Dolby Volume is there (pg 91) but when you turn it on, it automatically turns MultEQ XT 32 off! So, you cannot combine the eq filters of Audyssey with the volume leveling of Dolby Volume.

That's disappointing too.
 
#79 ·
Darin, you may win the "most complicated setup" award
transducers in the floor AND the couch, with separate filtering requirements and separate EQ'ing with the BFD, and now you reveal that you take two surround channels and use PLII to process them into FIVE channels??
how does that work exactly??? isn't that kind of redundant with just using PLIIx to process two surrounds channels into 4?


sounds like if you went with a more traditional arrangement (4 surrounds processed by PLIIx) you could just switch your amp to power "front height" and then you wouldn't have to purchase any more amps...
 
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