The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 49 - AVS Forum
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post #1441 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 01:10 PM
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For those perceiving the 4311 as overly/unusually bright - what Audyssey target curve are you using? While most receivers use the "Audyssey" or "Audyssey Reference" curve, Denon receivers have the added option of using the "Audyssey Flat" curve. The "reference" curve adds a slight roll-off to the high frequencies while the flat curve does not. Yet, the reference curve is actually recommended for most material.

It's unlikely to be that as the "Audyssey Reference" curve is the default option, but it's a good point nonetheless.

I have a strong gut feeling that perceptions of "brightness" come down to two things:

1) when trying to blast full-bore at "reference level" as jmalto did, the amps may be running out of steam slightly which could lead to "harsh" sound

2) the incredible filter resolution of the MultEQ XT 32 room correction has taken care of reflections or other acoustic issues that muddied the sound, leading to crystal clear treble and the perception of this increase in clarity/detail as "brightness"

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post #1442 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CoreyM View Post

Thanks. Is there any alternate way to achieve what I am wanting to do here? Can I run one HDMI out to another receiver and let it process the surround for the second room and mute the Denon?

what are you wanting to do? can you explain in more detail?

sounds like you want one receiver to power two completely independent multichannel setups? that's not going to happen. Just get a second receiver for the alternate setup, and use an HDMI matrix switcher to distribute the sources to the two setups.

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post #1443 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jayefayed View Post

I have the AVR-4311CI and it is amazing! Run as fast as you can to get one before they are sold out. Magnolia Hi-Fi has a 4 month wait on them from Denon. All sold out they told me. Had a Denon AVR-5802 and it kills the 5802 in sound in DTS, Dolby Pro Logic, multichannel stereo, virtual, II and IIZ True 3-D and everything else. There are too many new sounds to mention. It's about the size of the 5200 but about 2 inchs less height. I was blown away by the sounds I never heard in previous movies I had watched. Ordered it at Best Buy (Magnolia Hi Fi) paid 1999.00 for it. Paid 5500.00 for 5802 and this thing kills the 5802. Looked at Marantz but I am super glad I bought the 4311CI. Nothing better on the market in this price range. This is the reiever for the next 4 to 5 years. Running a Panasonic Plasma 65 inch 3D TV and the new Panasonic BD 100-7 (700) series and the new Direct TV 3d Sat Box DVR-21. Just came out. The Direct TV 3d will blow you away. The 3D comes out 12 to 17 feet out of the TV in 1080P with the sensor #D glasses. I have never seen anything like this in my life. Your body reacts to things thown out of the TV at you. Like moving you head or body the oppisite way. Running all M&K Speakers and M&K Satellites and M&K 18 inch Powered Sub Woofer. Watched the Miami and Crimsome game the other day in 3D by ESPN (Amazing) I felt like I was on the field and the players were in my living room. Running all Monster THX 1000 17.6 Gig cables for true 3D at the max. Take my advice get this AVR.

No offense... but seriously? I hope you enjoyed paying a few extra hundred dollars for good looking cables that perform just as well as a $5 cable. I normally don't care what people waste their money on, but you are stating that it's allowing you to have "true 3D at the max". There is no noticable quality difference from a $5 HDMI cable, compared to a $100 HDMI cable. The cable might look better but that's about it. It's a digital signal, it's far less picky than old analog cables.

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Originally Posted by jayefayed View Post

My question is on HDMI (1) from TV straight to Sat box so my wife can watch TV easily. HDMI (2) TV straight to Blue ray 3-D. My problem is I cannot plug any HDMI out put from Sat Cable box to the Denon because it only has one output HDMI on the box. The same with the 3D Blue ray player, only one HDMI out going to the TV. I am using a Digital optical from Blue ray into Optical in port on Denon and another optical cable from Sat box to the Denon. Am I loosing anything like 3d sound or true 3d or Plz 1 and 2 by using optical cable insead of findin another HDMI out port that I don't have on the Sat or Bluray Box?? I am thinking about running another HDMI (3) on TV in to the Denon out. Will I notice a difference? Should I just run another optical cable into the Denon from the optical in on the TV back? Also is Optical better than Coxial Digital. Please help me. I need to know as soon as possible because I want to go Magnolia Hi Fi and get all the cables I need.

Trying not to be to harsh here but I just can't resist... How can someone that blew this much money into a system have so little knowledge about the stuff he bought. One of the reasons you paid so much for a receiver is so you can just run everything through it. You are not wiring your system correctly. You shouldn't need anything but HDMI cables, and this receiver has plenty of HDMI ports. If your wife has trouble with using more than one remote, then get a harmony remote. One button will do everything for her. There should only be 1 cable going into your TV, and all your devices plug into your receiver, not the TV.
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post #1444 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

2) the incredible filter resolution of the MultEQ XT 32 room correction has taken care of reflections or other acoustic issues that muddied the sound, leading to crystal clear treble and the perception of this increase in clarity/detail as "brightness"

I know that this is happening with my system as my center channel (poor speaker and poor location) is much clearer than I have ever heard.

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post #1445 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 01:25 PM
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Hey, big giant perceived Denon Lover here! So, for those that think I'm over the top on the Denon's here goes a negative.

I have never, ever, ever, and bunch more evers, had a Denon remote I could say much positive about. The last models weird illuminescent things worked and if you spent a bit of time tinkering worked pretty OK. The 3311 remote is quite a bit uglier but has the very critical (to me and my marriage) Dynamic Volume toggle. It is not back lit, is really overly busy and really pretty cheap looking as well.

There, everyone happy? Just having fun though, not trying to upset anyone too much.

I understand that there are a few firms out their that make these things called "programmable universal remotes" I wonder if anyone would ever use such a device? It sure would be nice to program a system that switches my Projector, Blu Ray Player and PC all via RF and behind a wall or heavy glass door. Where oh where can I find such a thing?

It's all good.
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post #1446 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

what are you wanting to do? can you explain in more detail?

sounds like you want one receiver to power two completely independent multichannel setups? that's not going to happen. Just get a second receiver for the alternate setup, and use an HDMI matrix switcher to distribute the sources to the two setups.

Maybe I am way off base but I was under the impression that the video processing on these units was on the same level as some of the standalone units like the DVDOs so I was really hoping to use the receiver to feed both of my displays - an LCD TV in my office and the projector in the theater next door. Both displays use the same sources which has lead to a cabling nightmare that I was really hoping to clean up with a modern receiver (right now the theater is running on a Rotel RSX-1055).

I was trying to avoid extra switches since I do a lot of gaming and am unsure if they will add any extra lag.

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post #1447 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

I understand that there are a few firms out their that make these things called "programmable universal remotes"

Speaking of which, are any of the handful of owners using a Harmony? I'd rather not be the guinea pig while we wait for it to be added to the database.

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post #1448 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TheWolf56 View Post


Speaking of which, are any of the handful of owners using a Harmony? I'd rather not be the guinea pig while we wait for it to be added to the database.

I am using the 1100. Frankly, I still haven't reprogrammed from the 4810 and am using with the 3311. There are a couple differences regards to inputs but as batpig has said, most of the modern Denon's use near or exactly the same codes. The other thing about the said busy new Denon remote, is it has more discrete keys than previous models. If the 4311 isn't up yet at Harmony, I bet you could use the 4810 or 3311 and get by for now. I'll check Harmony tonight.
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Originally Posted by TheWolf56 View Post

Speaking of which, are any of the handful of owners using a Harmony? I'd rather not be the guinea pig while we wait for it to be added to the database.

I am hoping that all the wonderful discrete codes I got from our resident expert BATPIG will be carried over for use with my 4311 should the damn thing ever get here. I LOVE one touch for DYNEQ DYNVOL etc. Makes using the receiver that much nicer! Of course, knowing my luck they will have totally redid the codes and I will be screwed...
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post #1450 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jayefayed View Post

My question is on HDMI (1) from TV straight to Sat box so my wife can watch TV easily. HDMI (2) TV straight to Blue ray 3-D. My problem is I cannot plug any HDMI out put from Sat Cable box to the Denon because it only has one output HDMI on the box. The same with the 3D Blue ray player, only one HDMI out going to the TV. I am using a Digital optical from Blue ray into Optical in port on Denon and another optical cable from Sat box to the Denon. Am I loosing anything like 3d sound or true 3d or Plz 1 and 2 by using optical cable insead of findin another HDMI out port that I don't have on the Sat or Bluray Box?? I am thinking about running another HDMI (3) on TV in to the Denon out. Will I notice a difference? Should I just run another optical cable into the Denon from the optical in on the TV back? Also is Optical better than Coxial Digital. Please help me. I need to know as soon as possible because I want to go Magnolia Hi Fi and get all the cables I need.

Thank You
Jaye

Huh? Why are you messing with all that? Just run everything into the Denon via HDMI and have one HDMI go to the TV. If you're worried about your wife being able to watch TV "easily", just set the Denon to pass the cable box HDMI through when it's off.
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post #1451 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CoreyM View Post

Maybe I am way off base but I was under the impression that the video processing on these units was on the same level as some of the standalone units like the DVDOs so I was really hoping to use the receiver to feed both of my displays - an LCD TV in my office and the projector in the theater next door. Both displays use the same sources which has lead to a cabling nightmare that I was really hoping to clean up with a modern receiver (right now the theater is running on a Rotel RSX-1055).

I was trying to avoid extra switches since I do a lot of gaming and am unsure if they will add any extra lag.

Although the ABT video chip is the same as used in the DVDO Edge, Denon has not implemented the "fine detailing" features on the chip so the Edge would likely provide better overall quality. The AVR has (2) HDMI monitor out jacks and if you need to send audio to the TV, you can just set the HDMI Audio Out setting to "TV" for HDMI sources.

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post #1452 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

I understand that there are a few firms out their that make these things called "programmable universal remotes" I wonder if anyone would ever use such a device? It sure would be nice to program a system that switches my Projector, Blu Ray Player and PC all via RF and behind a wall or heavy glass door. Where oh where can I find such a thing?

The 4311 remote is actually a "programmable" IR remote in that it offers (3) Macro settings (p. 113) that can record up to 18 steps each, although this has been reduced down from 32 steps each from previous year's models (4310, 3808, 2809). This can be used in lieu of a Harmony remote to turn ON and then OFF multiple sources with a single macro button for each action. Denon also offers a programmable RF remote as well, RC-7000CI.

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post #1453 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 02:33 PM
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Has anyone called Logitech to get an ETA on when the 4311CI will be in the harmony database? I checked last night but it still wasnt in there.

I'm currently using the 4310CI codes... but for some reason it bugs the heck out of me.
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post #1454 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

The pioneer sc 27 I had was def not metal or aluminum. It was similar to the surround of my pioneer plasma. It's a plastic coated very nice looking but not anything like the onkyo's.

Your assertion about the Pioneer 27 is questionable, as the Pioneer 37 has an aluminum front panel. The Onkyo 5008 does, too (and this extends to most of the lower models in the Onkyo/Integra line). The Yamaha A3000 appears to have an aluminum front panel, but that cannot yet be confirmed. So, Denon may be the primary holdout at this price level.

http://pioneerusa.com/ephox/StaticFi...iles/SC-37.pdf
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=f

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post #1455 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy View Post

Ummm, I am the person who decides, once again, what I like...

I am the person spending MY money...

These are just MY opinions...

If I value, and think that a $2000 MSRP AVR should not have a plastic fascia - then that is MY right - I am the one buying it with my money...

And I truly hope it is a HUGE seller for Denon, seriously...

But I am far from the first person to "call it out" on not having the typical Denon brushed aluminum face-plate and one made of plastic - I believe several on here have mentioned its build quality or lack thereof...

Sure it's your money, so feel free to go buy whatever you want then in something else then, instead of just coming up with excuses upon excuses not to get the Denon. As for all those you claim that are "calling it out", other than for the few that are locked into the "heavy is better" crowd, that is pretty much only a minority here. Because your arguments against it look to be getting weaker and weaker, when you start seeing all the positive things said about it by people that unlike you, they now actually have one!
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post #1456 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

Has anyone called Logitech to get an ETA on when the 4311CI will be in the harmony database? I checked last night but it still wasnt in there.

I'm currently using the 4310CI codes... but for some reason it bugs the heck out of me.

The best way to speed up the process of getting the 4311 remote codes into the Logitech data base is for someone with the 4311 remote to call Logitech and ask to work with a Level 2 tech to get the codes into their database.

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post #1457 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 02:53 PM
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Just got my tracking # from EE. It did indeed ship out on Friday and will be here Wedsnesday.

I probably won't do much other than Hook it up and run Audssey. More calibration will be done on Friday when I have a friend over for a second opinion.
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The 4311 remote is actually a "programmable" IR remote in that it offers (3) Macro settings (p. 113) that can record up to 18 steps each, although this has been reduced down from 32 steps each from previous year's models (4310, 3808, 2809). This can be used in lieu of a Harmony remote to turn ON and then OFF multiple sources with a single macro button for each action. Denon also offers a programmable RF remote as well, RC-7000CI.

Yes, but this still does not offset the fact that 99% of all Denon remotes (this one included) SUCK. Really, all you guys are plunking $1500 for this thing and don't have/want a GOOD (ie non SUCK) universal remote?

Tyrindor, if the 4310 codes are all working and you don't need anything else, why do you care if the Harmony database is updated. THEY ARE THE SAME CODES.
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post #1459 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post


The 4311 remote is actually a "programmable" IR remote in that it offers (3) Macro settings (p. 113) that can record up to 18 steps each, although this has been reduced down from 32 steps each from previous year's models (4310, 3808, 2809). This can be used in lieu of a Harmony remote to turn ON and then OFF multiple sources with a single macro button for each action. Denon also offers a programmable RF remote as well, RC-7000CI.

Yep, I know you can program it, but I was just joking a bit. The Harmony's though are a different bird and fully PC programmable. Don't forget you have the new I-phone app. This will be fun to work with. In addition, you have the web based solution. Previous iterations of the web based program worked well but could be painfully slow at times. Juries out on the new Apple Ap. I personally would like to hear someone try this out and report findings. Ditto Pandora.

One other thing. Is anyone of the new owners going to use the Pro Kit. I'd love to hear thoughts on this as well. I am thinking of using some of the money back on the 4810 to buy the Pro kit. Any thoughts?
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post #1460 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post


Your assertion about the Pioneer 27 is questionable, as the Pioneer 37 has an aluminum front panel. The Onkyo 5008 does, too (and this extends to most of the lower models in the Onkyo/Integra line). The Yamaha A3000 appears to have an aluminum front panel, but that cannot yet be confirmed. So, Denon may be the primary holdout at this price level.

http://pioneerusa.com/ephox/StaticFi...iles/SC-37.pdf
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=f

AJ

I never mentioned the 37 as I have never seen nor owned. I did have the 27 and it was like my pioneer 141 a glossy black finish but nothing close to the onkyo finish. I will repeat a very nice looking unit but from my memory and based on this description http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ep...iles/SC-27.pdf
not aluminum. So I question your assertion or maybe lack of.

In search of video bliss...
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post #1461 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CCONKLIN1 View Post

Yes, but this still does not offset the fact that 99% of all Denon remotes (this one included) SUCK. Really, all you guys are plunking $1500 for this thing and don't have/want a GOOD (ie non SUCK) universal remote?

Well to be fair, Denon is far from being the only manufacturer that sells products that come with sucky remotes. And which is also why, there is a nice aftermarket of options for some really good remotes.
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post #1462 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

It's unlikely to be that as the "Audyssey Reference" curve is the default option, but it's a good point nonetheless.

I have a strong gut feeling that perceptions of "brightness" come down to two things:

1) when trying to blast full-bore at "reference level" as jmalto did, the amps may be running out of steam slightly which could lead to "harsh" sound

2) the incredible filter resolution of the MultEQ XT 32 room correction has taken care of reflections or other acoustic issues that muddied the sound, leading to crystal clear treble and the perception of this increase in clarity/detail as "brightness"

I figured with all the audiophiles around here, if you saw "Flat" as an option and didn't know the details, you might choose it. But I will gladly defer to the great Batpig!

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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The best way to speed up the process of getting the 4311 remote codes into the Logitech data base is for someone with the 4311 remote to call Logitech and ask to work with a Level 2 tech to get the codes into their database.

I've got a Harmony One (and will probably pick up a 900 for non-LOS in its final install location) and I just got word mine is shipping out this week! So if the 4311 is not in the database by the time I receive mine, I'll gladly be the guinea pig. Hard to complain about the included remote when most all AVR remotes suck - I assume most people on this forum would leave it in the box (I never use them).
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post #1463 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Sure it's your money, so feel free to go buy whatever you want then in something else then, instead of just coming up with excuses upon excuses not to get the Denon. As for all those you claim that are "calling it out", other than for the few that are locked into the "heavy is better" crowd, that is pretty much only a minority here. Because your arguments against it look to be getting weaker and weaker, when you start seeing all the positive things said about it by people that unlike you, they now actually have one!

Again, you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts...

The MAJORITY of people on here who actually HAVE this 4311 have commented on its build quality - and not in a positive way...

Hey, I like the Denon still, as you can see I just purchased the Denon DVP-602 Video Processor along with the Denon DBP-2010 and both have the Denon brushed aluminum fascia...

While the 4311 might not be for me, maybe the 4810, or higher is...

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post #1464 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 03:31 PM
 
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Well to be fair, Denon is far from being the only manufacturer that sells products that come with sucky remotes. And which is also why, there is a nice aftermarket of options for some really good remotes.

Oh, I was not singling out Denon. I have yet to see a manufactures remote that I would keep and use. Once you go with a custom remote, ALL regular remotes begin to suck. I just wish manufactures would work closer with Logitech and have all these codes (discrete included) in their database asap.
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post #1465 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 03:36 PM
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Again, you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts...

The MAJORITY of people on here who actually HAVE this 4311 have commented on its build quality - and not in a positive way...

I'm wondering if the A100 will satisfy my concern on the build quality. I mean if I can get it for the same % off as I have seen the 4311 for. As much as build quality is important to me, I can't see spending $1000 more for slightly better build quality

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post #1466 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 03:56 PM
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Again, you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts...

The MAJORITY of people on here who actually HAVE this 4311 have commented on its build quality - and not in a positive way...


No, the fact is. Yes many of the owners they commented on it, but they also pretty much said they were not really concerned a lot about it either. There is certainly no one so far, saying that they want to return it for that reason!
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post #1467 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 03:56 PM
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really, how so?
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post #1468 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Eldiablos View Post


I'm wondering if the A100 will satisfy my concern on the build quality. I mean if I can get it for the same % off as I have seen the 4311 for. As much as build quality is important to me, I can't see spending $1000 more for slightly better build quality

That is the dilemma, for me I chose the 4311 for the following reasons.

1). I needed one now.
2). The Receiver will be behind smoked glass, so most of the supposedly pleasing front panel improvements are lost on me.
3). I honestly can't tell a difference in sound on FLAC content from the 4810 to the 3310 when played in Stereo. i just don't think this stuff is perceptible to middle aged ears.
4). the better speaker connects are nice on the 4810 and I would imagine just as great on the AVR A100 but for the extra bucks and since I will pre-out most everything, it's just not worth it to me.
5). Feet mean nothing to me. They are feet.
6). I sort of dislike Piano Black anyway and have concern its a trend that will come and go. Could be totally wearing about this but my other equipment isn't piano black.

Now, the warranty has some value but my dealer sort of threw this in because of my problems with the 4810. This means it's a dollars choice on this item.

I guess for you, perhaps my logic could help you. Is the receiver going to see the light of day? Do you care about upgraded parts? Do you like glossy black? Do you like exclusivity? Answer this stuff and you may have made s choice. Good luck.
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post #1469 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Eldiablos View Post

I'm wondering if the A100 will satisfy my concern on the build quality. I mean if I can get it for the same % off as I have seen the 4311 for. As much as build quality is important to me, I can't see spending $1000 more for slightly better build quality


Even with the additions the A100 brings to the table, internally the build quality aspect of the two is not really a whole lot different from each other. Most of what the A100 brings, besides the longer warranty. Is on some of the external parts, and not much on the inside. Sure the addition of gold plated connections and a glossy front plate are nice, but it's also not like they beefed up everything inside, made it 30lbs heavier, and also doubled the power output.
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post #1470 of 23806 Old 10-04-2010, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy View Post

Again, you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts...

The MAJORITY of people on here who actually HAVE this 4311 have commented on its build quality - and not in a positive way...

Hey, I like the Denon still, as you can see I just purchased the Denon DVP-602 Video Processor along with the Denon DBP-2010 and both have the Denon brushed aluminum fascia...

While the 4311 might not be for me, maybe the 4810, or higher is...

Pologuy,

So you're shopping for a brushed aluminum fascia. You are hanging onto every perceived negative comment about this AVR. So you are predisposing yourself to not like it regardless.

If you are going to factor these subjective opinions into your buying decision then your task of buying an AVR will be more difficult.

You don't have many options at this price level and these types of comments are present on all the various AVRs in this price range.

From build quality to functionality there is no perfect AVR in this price range or any other. They all have their shortcomings whether real or perceived.


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Audyssey , Denon Avr 4311ci 9 2 Channel Network Multi Room Home Theater Receiver With Hdmi 1 4a , Denon Avr A100 100th Anniversary 9 2 140w , Denon
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