The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 533 - AVS Forum
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post #15961 of 23307 Old 03-16-2012, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

basically you are describing normal behaviour for every avr connected via hdmi...

whenever you make a change in resolution, certain menu settings, etc., the handshake is broken and must be re-established... this will cause the "video drop" that you are seeing...

it is what it is... ime, the 4311 actually handles handshaking relatively quickly compared to previous avrs/pre-pros i've had, although that is also dependent upon the source and sink being used with it...

Totally agree, what you can do is set your cable box to output everything at 1080i or 1080P for some of the new TiVo boxes. I would imagine that up conversion is not going to totally suck at the cable box and the bigger issue is high video signal compression. With my old Tivo's, I set all output to 1080i and problem solved. I blame the cable box over the 4311.
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post #15962 of 23307 Old 03-16-2012, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davecraze View Post

I am planning to use four inwall subwoofers with my 4311 - two on each channel of a Crown XLS 2000 Drivecore. My room is rather small at 1900 cubic feet and fuly enclosed. Planning to to put them either in all four corners or in the ceiling at the 1/4 distance from each corner.

I assume that XT32 will ping each sub channel (and thus each pair of subs) individually then ping both channels (all four subs) together?

Thanks for any clarification.

yes, essentially. XT32 w/ SubEQ HT first pings each sub channel individually to set distance & level, and then pings both together during the Audyssey sweeps to create a combined EQ filter for the sub channel.

so, in your case with 4 subs you will want to split them into two "symmetrical" pairs that are equidistant from the AVR. Level or gain match within each pair manually, and then connect both pairs and run Audyssey.

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post #15963 of 23307 Old 03-16-2012, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guillermorb73 View Post

Happens (dropout) with Directv & even when the GUI menu is on the screen, just loses signal for about 2-3 seconds then comes back on, only to do it again a little while later during programming.
Many of us avoid the great majority of handshake issues by eliminating the #1source of them, which is cable boxes. Is FW update on the box and setting the output on the box to a single output such as 1080i does not work, then consider eliminating the HDMI->AVR connection. Go either direct to the display via HDMI and take the audio from there to the AVR or run component video and SPDIF (coax or optical) audio from the cable box to the AVR.
...If I upgrade to the new unit what should I do with the 3808 any ideas?
Another system in another room, Craig's list or deserving relative?

see above

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post #15964 of 23307 Old 03-16-2012, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

Totally agree, what you can do is set your cable box to output everything at 1080i or 1080P for some of the new TiVo boxes. I would imagine that up conversion is not going to totally suck at the cable box and the bigger issue is high video signal compression. With my old Tivo's, I set all output to 1080i and problem solved. I blame the cable box over the 4311.

yup... 1080i is generally the "best" choice for sending a fixed resolution, as scaling/interlacing is "easy", whereas deinterlacing is "hard"...

and probably what most should do, unless using a "large" (i.e. projection) screen and a "proven better in real world viewing" scaling solution... i send native and live with the delay in switching in my main setup, as on the pj, the scaling in the radiance is noticeably better*... when i had the kuro in here, i just let the cable box do the scaling...

* except on saturdays during football season, since i surf around constantly, and that last bit of pq isn't worth the delay....

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post #15965 of 23307 Old 03-16-2012, 12:57 PM
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Guys, thanks for the advice. I've got a 4311 on the way! Thanks Dave.
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post #15966 of 23307 Old 03-16-2012, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

if you do put it into protection when set to 8, lowering it to 6/4 really won't help... since all you are doing is limiting current without changing the load, it won't produce satisfactory results (and it will go into protection eventually anyway)... unfortunately, there's no way to make the power supply more robust by flipping a switch...

Good point. There are various ways to implement this type of low impedance protection but at the end of the day they all limit the current that can flow through the output x-isitors. So it's going to reduce the gain which defeats the purpose the listener had in mind when he cranked up the volume.

Assuming the self protection when set at the 8 ohms always works, there's no reason to change the switch.
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post #15967 of 23307 Old 03-16-2012, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevies3 View Post

Contemplating upgrading my 4310 --> 4311 With the 4310 one can choose between Sirius or the XM accessory for satellite radio. I see no mention or input for the XM option on the 4311. Is Sirius the only option for the 4311? As you can decipher I have the XM Direct device (model# XHD2H1)

Correct, Sirius jack only. Unless there is some kind of adapter, you also can access via the Sirius/XM networking apps (iphone, android).

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post #15968 of 23307 Old 03-16-2012, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

yes, essentially. XT32 w/ SubEQ HT first pings each sub channel individually to set distance & level, and then pings both together during the Audyssey sweeps to create a combined EQ filter for the sub channel.

so, in your case with 4 subs you will want to split them into two "symmetrical" pairs that are equidistant from the AVR. Level or gain match within each pair manually, and then connect both pairs and run Audyssey.

Thanks so much. Will do.
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post #15969 of 23307 Old 03-16-2012, 04:34 PM
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I got my 4311 on Tuesday of this week, hooked it up and got no signal on my projector which is hooked up via a 40', 22 gauge HDMI cable that worked fine with my Onkyo 606 and most recently an Onkyo 1007. Thinking the signal needs to be amplified, I ordered a HDMI® Active Equalizer Extender Repeater and also a 1x2 HDMI® Amplifier Splitter hoping one or the other or both would solve the problem. No such luck. I tried them separately, together, and on both monitor outs to no avail. I also tried both HDMI inputs on the Epson as well. The cable works fine when connected straight to the source such as my DISH PVR or HTPC. Just not when connected through the Denon. Does anyone have any other suggestions on what might be going on before I send this back?
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post #15970 of 23307 Old 03-16-2012, 08:14 PM
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^^^

you might try a series 1 cable from bluejeans... if anything will work, that will... i ran a 40' one of those with mine to a pj for a bit, and it worked...

ymmv of course...

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post #15971 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
If you're using a button to turn on the AVR/select a source, then you'll need to rememorize that button after making the surround mode change by pressing/holding the button for a few seconds until the display reads "Memorize".

thanks jdsmoothie

still loving my 4311 - if slightly quirky in some respects - a couple of updates of some previous points from me

(1) re noise on turn on - I finally remembered this morning what it sounds like - degaussing mode on an old monitor- I've come to conclusion its partially dependant on the case temp of the amp - as some days its a full on "booooooink" with almost the case actually vibrating slightly (possible the casework is slightly loose on the Denon) - most of the time its practically silent on turn-on - bizarre

(2) re Audyssey XT32 calibration and my concern of boosting a lot the 8-20k range (and I still think it sounds over tizzy) - I've borrowed another Denon mic off a friend - so later today or tomorrow - I'll try his mic in same cal positions as I used for current EQ calibration - if drastic difference I know its my mic. If not difference and still lots of upper boost - I'll try moving the mic further away from back of sofa - if not that then obviously my Tannoy tweeters have aged over time !

(3) set impedance to 8 ohms to no ill effect - no shutdowns etc cheers
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post #15972 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

(2) re Audyssey XT32 calibration and my concern of boosting a lot the 8-20k range (and I still think it sounds over tizzy) - I've borrowed another Denon mic off a friend - so later today or tomorrow - I'll try his mic in same cal positions as I used for current EQ calibration - if drastic difference I know its my mic. If not difference and still lots of upper boost - I'll try moving the mic further away from back of sofa - if not that then obviously my Tannoy tweeters have aged over time !

That's fine as long as the mic is the same DM-A409 (ie. XX09/X89 model or newer).

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post #15973 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

That's fine as long as the mic is the same DM-A409 (ie. XX09/X89 model or newer).

its definately a DM-A409 - I think from a 2310
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post #15974 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 05:12 AM
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Hi.

Where I can get an AVR-A100? Modia went crazy with the price...

Thanks!
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post #15975 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 05:30 AM
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^^^

almost nowhere, unless one pops up used... they are pretty much all gone, and since denon chose the route of not extending their "anniversary" another year (thank you mother denon for preserving at least a bit of perceived value for those of us who will sell it someday ), there haven't been any more manufactured since the original production runs...

note i specifically said "perceived value" in the above paragraph...

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post #15976 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photobias View Post

Hi. Where I can get an AVR-A100? Modia went crazy with the price...Thanks!

Big River Modia ad:

"The 100th Anniversary AV Receiver is a special-edition Denon product designed for today's multi-dimensional lifestyles. A blend of passion, artistry and technology, it is now available as part of the limited-time Anniversary Product Collection, a testament to Denon's capacity to embrace and extend modem technology platforms." $2999.00 Interesting-an authorized dealer selling above MSRP?

BTW Denon no longer features the 100th Anniv products on their website and lists the A100 as discontinued.

Dude, why's it gotta be an A100? Seriously, just get a 4311, it's also pretty darn adequate (as in likely indistinguishable for SQ/PQ) for "today's multi-dimensional lifestyles". And spend the extra $ on a Pro kit or a second sub if you don't have one.

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post #15977 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 08:11 AM
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Wow for that price I would "consider" selling my A100

"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses". - Abraham Lincoln
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post #15978 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 08:44 AM
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RIGHT - tried another mic - and got same high frequency results - so must be my room/speakers

but after more calibration - everything is sounding ok apart from the subwoofer - which sounds WAY overblown ...in fact I need to turn down afterwards about -2.5 to -3dB !!

BUT only with Audyssey EQ on - with my custom EQ or flat - it sounds ok at auto-levels

this makes me suspicious that (and obviously you can't see whats going on) - somethings being boosted on the subwoofer

now the only odd thing is my subwoofer makes an odd noise during calibration - you can hear the woop woop but overlaid that you can hear a sort of driver rattle noise - I'm guessing this could be throwing the calibration off ?

I've uploaded a video - see below - you can almost here as much "wood" noise as actual output ? or is this normal for the subwoofer cal ?

vid is less than 500kb

http://www.mark-buckley.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/LFE.wmv
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post #15979 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Browninggold View Post

Wow for that price I would "consider" selling my A100

heck, for that price, i WOULD sell mine...

i'd even be generous and make it be 25 franklins.... i'd gladly convert mine into 4311 + pro kit + 500 in my pocket...

- chris

 

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post #15980 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 10:06 AM
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I've got a 4311 coming next week, can someone tell me about this "Pro kit"?
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post #15981 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

... everything is sounding ok apart from the subwoofer - which sounds WAY overblown ...in fact I need to turn down afterwards about -2.5 to -3dB !!
Be sure DEQ is OFF after calibration for your listening tests.BUT only with Audyssey EQ on - with my custom EQ or flat - it sounds ok at auto-levels

this makes me suspicious that (and obviously you can't see whats going on) - somethings being boosted on the subwoofer
now the only odd thing is my subwoofer makes an odd noise during calibration - you can hear the woop woop but overlaid that you can hear a sort of driver rattle noise - I'm guessing this could be throwing the calibration off ? I've uploaded a video -
Listening to the vid, I hear a few crackly/rattle sounds at the beginning of the chirps. This is not normal.

see above

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post #15982 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 10:41 AM
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So, I have been re-ripping my CD's via iTunes into AIFF and I have converted my old Mac Mini into a dedicated iTunes machine using Amarra Mini software. (www.amarraaudio.com) I have the Mac Mini connected to a Cambridge DAC Magic Plus via USB with the DAC Magic Plus Stereo output going into the 4311 via the CD stereo input. The Mini's Toslink output to the AVR-4311ci optical input #1. I also have my Denon DVD-5900 connected via Denon Link and via the 7.1 surround channel output. So, I can now listen to any type of HD audio!

I have noticed when I compare the same music via different inputs that the Toslink is not as clear as the Stereo for the Mini's output. I do not know if this is due to the Stereo vs Toslink or the better DAC's in the DAC Magic Plus vs the Denon's internal DAC's. Can anyone comment on the internal DAC's? Who makes them and is anyone else using them to process their digital files back to analog?

On a side note, the venerable DVD 5900 is awesome for both SACD (via the 7.1 inputs) in either stereo or surround and the Denon Link is also amazing. I have a small collection of hi res discs that are still a lot of fun to listen to.

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post #15983 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guillermorb73 View Post

I've got a 4311 coming next week, can someone tell me about this "Pro kit"?

No, not until you have passed the first level initiation. Well, OK-click this link to see the FAQ on the Pro kit thread.

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post #15984 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longbow View Post

...I have noticed when I compare the same music via different inputs that the Toslink is not as clear as the Stereo for the Mini's output.
1. Be sure that they are level-matched with a SPL and
2. verify that the exact same processing is applied to both (DEQ/tone control/Audyssey Std curve, xover, etc)
I do not know if this is due to the Stereo vs Toslink or the better DAC's in the DAC Magic Plus vs the Denon's internal DAC's. Can anyone comment on the internal DAC's? Who makes them
highly talented elves

On a side note, the venerable DVD 5900 is awesome for both SACD (via the 7.1 inputs) in either stereo or surround and the Denon Link is also amazing.
It sure is!

See above.

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post #15985 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 11:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

RIGHT - tried another mic - and got same high frequency results - so must be my room/speakers

but after more calibration - everything is sounding ok apart from the subwoofer - which sounds WAY overblown ...in fact I need to turn down afterwards about -2.5 to -3dB !!

BUT only with Audyssey EQ on - with my custom EQ or flat - it sounds ok at auto-levels

this makes me suspicious that (and obviously you can't see whats going on) - somethings being boosted on the subwoofer

now the only odd thing is my subwoofer makes an odd noise during calibration - you can hear the woop woop but overlaid that you can hear a sort of driver rattle noise - I'm guessing this could be throwing the calibration off ?

I've uploaded a video - see below - you can almost here as much "wood" noise as actual output ? or is this normal for the subwoofer cal ?

vid is less than 500kb

http://www.mark-buckley.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/LFE.wmv

That is definitely NOT right. Sounds as if the driver of the sub is blown. Which would explain the over driven by Audyssey to compensate as the 'chirp' (really? y'all call that a 'chirp'?). Just started in on this topic so not sure what speakers you have but if they can handle being set to 'large', do that and remove the sub entirely from the equation. Then see how that sounds and if the brightness you describe is lessoned also.
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post #15986 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longbow View Post

So, I have been re-ripping my CD's via iTunes into AIFF and I have converted my old Mac Mini into a dedicated iTunes machine using Amarra Mini software. (www.amarraaudio.com) I have the Mac Mini connected to a Cambridge DAC Magic Plus via USB with the DAC Magic Plus Stereo output going into the 4311 via the CD stereo input. The Mini's Toslink output to the AVR-4311ci optical input #1. I also have my Denon DVD-5900 connected via Denon Link and via the 7.1 surround channel output. So, I can now listen to any type of HD audio!

I have noticed when I compare the same music via different inputs that the Toslink is not as clear as the Stereo for the Mini's output. I do not know if this is due to the Stereo vs Toslink or the better DAC's in the DAC Magic Plus vs the Denon's internal DAC's. Can anyone comment on the internal DAC's? Who makes them and is anyone else using them to process their digital files back to analog?

On a side note, the venerable DVD 5900 is awesome for both SACD (via the 7.1 inputs) in either stereo or surround and the Denon Link is also amazing. I have a small collection of hi res discs that are still a lot of fun to listen to.

You may be comparing apples and oranges. For example, to ensure you are hearing the pure sound from the external DAC, you should turn off all digital processing in the AVR (Audyssey and bass management), which means you would be listening without room correction and bass redirection. On the other hand, the Toslink connection is likely configured for room correction and bass redirection. It would be very difficult to compare the two and make a conclusion about the quality of the Denon DAC's.

I am not familiar with Denon link and how it is processing the signal, but the 7.1 connection is bypassing room corrections well.

I use the Denon internal DAC's for music being streamed by Sonos, and the D/A conversion sounds pretty good to me.

It still isn't clear to me that you will get better sound with a superior external DAC if you end up turning off all processing in the AVR. After all, many of us here are Audyssey fans.
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post #15987 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

... It would be very difficult to compare the two and make a conclusion about the quality of the Denon DAC's.
It's a bit of a hassle, requiring a little rewiring and basic setting-up of inputs. To get some idea of the difference in DACs one would take the RCA analog output from the ext. DAC and run it in the Ext In FR/FL inputs on the 4311. This will be sent to the amps directly with no processing so the DAC you'll hear is in the ext DAC. The digital signal would still be through the Toslink input (with Audyssey and all other EQ such as Tone Control Off) and the DAC you'll hear is in the 4311. Level matching by using the input trim must be done for the A/B comparison.


I am not familiar with Denon link and how it is processing the signal,
The signal is bitstreamed via Cat5. The DACs in the 4311 are used. If Audyssey is not applied one can then level-match the two and A/B to the 5900's fab DACs when it is also connected with 7.1 analog cables into the 4311's Ext In..

AJ, see above.

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post #15988 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post


heck, for that price, i WOULD sell mine...

i'd even be generous and make it be 25 franklins.... i'd gladly convert mine into 4311 + pro kit + 500 in my pocket...

Great minds think alike .... Of course I do like the shiny A100 and it does sound better than the 4311 with the great feet the A100 has...sexy

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post #15989 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

That is definitely NOT right. Sounds as if the driver of the sub is blown. Which would explain the over driven by Audyssey to compensate as the 'chirp' (really? y'all call that a 'chirp'?). Just started in on this topic so not sure what speakers you have but if they can handle being set to 'large', do that and remove the sub entirely from the equation. Then see how that sounds and if the brightness you describe is lessoned also.


mmm I was worried that may be the answer ... definately sounds less overblown with sub removed

that said - if you do a REW sweep - the subwoofer sounds ok - so its the short sharp Audyssey tone it doesn't seem to like - very odd

for the other queries - yes definately have all levellers off

presumably if I ran XT32 without sub on - then turned it on afterwards and added it to the config - I'd get EQ on all the main speakers - just not the sub ?
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post #15990 of 23307 Old 03-17-2012, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by guillermorb73 View Post

Thanks, I've done this and it works. However just using the the menu causes this hiccup as well. Is the 4311 prone to this or have there been sufficient improvements. I'd like to take advantage of an Eggy price. Guys please opine...

What you're describing doesn't quite match up with a handshake problem but replacing your AVR makes diagnosing the problem with your old AVR moot.

For what it's worth I have two DTV HD-DVRs and have had no HDMI problems since the Denon update that fixed various video issues.
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Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

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Audyssey , Denon Avr 4311ci 9 2 Channel Network Multi Room Home Theater Receiver With Hdmi 1 4a , Denon Avr A100 100th Anniversary 9 2 140w , Denon
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