The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 61 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1801 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 07:27 AM
Senior Member
 
jmb295's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sterling, Va
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I received my 4311 at the end of last week, and I must say how ecstatic I am to have it installed and running. This unit replaced an Denon 5700 that I've had for the past 11 years, and I wasn't really sure to what to expect since it was their flagship unit back then.

I spent an hour rewiring my rack, removing things like audio & component cables I no longer need. I also installed an old pair of radio shack bookshelf speakers I've had in my closet for several years as the front wides. In no way are they sonically matched to my 5.1 setup, but I wanted to at least give the new channels a try. Installation was overall very easy, and the Audyssey calibration was quick and painless (although my dog did not enjoy the pinging sound!).

I had everything setup to demo the new unit to my wife Friday night, we both have yet to see Iron Man 2 and I was holding out on it until the new receiver was in. The movie sounded great although there was less action than we were expecting, I could tell a noticeable overall improvement over the previous sound quality.

It was still early enough in the evening and we decided to put in Avatar. Wow, we were both speechless. There were a lot of factors that could be leading to improvements in play. The front wide channels really helped envelop the whole room. The audio track was now upgraded from standard DD to HD. The Audyssey calibration also does a much better job than myself and an analog spl meter.

It was far and away the best sound I have ever heard out of my speakers, simply amazing and well worth the investment! Best of all my wife agreed. The amp section had no problem pushing my 4Ohm speakers, although there were only 7 of the 9 channels being driven.

The build quality was better than expected, although it was certainly not as nice as the 5700. I really wish they would not add all the logos on the front of the case! But since it sits on a rack in my basement, this really did not even enter into my purchasing decision.

I couldn't be happier with how it this one turned out, and I'm pretty sure this one will last me another 10 years.
jmb295 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1802 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 08:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 127
As a current AVP-A1 owner, I'm itchy to hear a comparative review as to the net gain/loss in sound quality moving to the 4311/A100.

On one hand, I surmise you are giving up a better architecture with high quality components and a fully balanced design in leaving the A1

On the other hand, the 4311/A100 has the potential advantage of a more mature technology baseline (midlevel 2010 components by may have been considered "higher-end" components three years ago...) and MultiEQ XT32 - this greatly interests me, as it would seem to have the greatest noticeable impact on SQ improvement.

I'm not interested in DSX as I don't have the space...

Of course, I've been told that the A1 will be receiving some upgrade, but no details, including whether that means HW (HDMI 1.4), SW (ie MultiEQ XT32), or both. And with no date or formal announcement, who knows how long before such an upgrade is made available. Does any Denon expert here know if the A1 has the processing power for the MultiEQ XT32?

Maybe this is a good article for Gene at audioholics!
thrang is offline  
post #1803 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 08:52 AM
 
CCONKLIN1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Oswego IL 60543
Posts: 2,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by nydennis View Post

Well according to the Literature page on Denon's site

"Lower power consumption at Stand-by 0.1 W (Standby.)"

I hope it doesn't get hot. I had my Onkyo 3007 in Stand-by mode for a week and the unit was so hot to the touch but my unit was broken so don't know if other's do that.

I had the 3007 for quite awhile. In standby it was never even remotely WARM, let alone hot. I would say it was your unit...
Best,
Chris
CCONKLIN1 is offline  
post #1804 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 08:55 AM
 
CCONKLIN1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Oswego IL 60543
Posts: 2,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

As a current AVP-A1 owner, I'm itchy to hear a comparative review as to the net gain/loss in sound quality moving to the 4311/A100.

On one hand, I surmise you are giving up a better architecture with high quality components and a fully balanced design in leaving the A1

On the other hand, the 4311/A100 has the potential advantage of a more mature technology baseline (midlevel 2010 components by may have been considered "higher-end" components three years ago...) and MultiEQ XT32 - this greatly interests me, as it would seem to have the greatest noticeable impact on SQ improvement.

I'm not interested in DSX as I don't have the space...

Of course, I've been told that the A1 will be receiving some upgrade, but no details, including whether that means HW (HDMI 1.4), SW (ie MultiEQ XT32), or both. And with no date or formal announcement, who knows how long before such an upgrade is made available. Does any Denon expert here know if the A1 has the processing power for the MultiEQ XT32?

Maybe this is a good article for Gene at audioholics!

For what I paid over the 4311 for the A100 I will definitely hear a difference for the better. There is no question about it! I don't care if one of the channels is out, IT WILL SOUND BETTER!
Chris
Ps I am kinda of kidding but i really do know it will sound better because of the....wait for it.....the DACS!
This has not been talked about much here, anyone have any opinions?
CCONKLIN1 is offline  
post #1805 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 09:15 AM
Senior Member
 
beever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
THRANG: I am the guy you have been waiting to hear from. I recently sold my AVP-A1 because I felt it was getting a little "long in the tooth" and was being ignored by Denon in favor of newer technology, better technology and things I wanted like HDMI 1.4, Sub EX and the new MultiEQ X32. I am so happy I did and so is my wallet!!

The A1 in its time was the processor to beat, it sounded great in 2 channel as well as HT and had balanced inputs and all the latest software. They did a great job keeping it up to date until about 8 months ago and then they dropped the ball, in my opinion. With the 100 year anniversary coming they decided to focus on new technology and cutting edge stuff, in the wake of that the A1 was lost in the shuffle. No more firmware updates, no announcements of an upgrade path or even a replacement. So, I waited and waited. I would have bought the A100 if it was available or even had a potential ship date but, if I did I feared I would lose thousands on the used market as the A1 and Amp continued to plummet in resale value. When the 4311 came out as the top AV receiver in the lineup (IMO) I went for it and sold my stuff on audiogon and ebay for almost as much as I paid for it. (amp and A1 for $8000) I paid 25% below retail for the 4311 from Electronics Expo and pocketed $6500. I have missed absolutely nothing sonically, it is actually an upgrade. So much so that I am loving what this sub EQ does for sound and the new X32 is leaps and bounds ahead of the previous version we had on the A1. Add HDMI 1.4 to the mix for future proofing and higher bandwidth in a single cable and this was without a doubt the best decision I have made. I also freed up another shelf in my rack, eliminated 10 XLR cables, a trigger cable and power cord, dropped about 100lbs in weight between the 2 components, lowered the heat in my rack by 20 degrees, did I mention the nearly $7000 back in my bank account...need I go on?
beever is offline  
post #1806 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 09:20 AM
Senior Member
 
nydennis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCONKLIN1 View Post

For what I paid over the 4311 for the A100 I will definitely hear a difference for the better. There is no question about it! I don't care if one of the channels is out, IT WILL SOUND BETTER!
Chris
:


I totally agree, and I owe it all to CConklin for the price :-)

My experience with Mackcam Warranties. Projector sent with HDMI issue, returned with Lens damage. Still no ETA. 6 Months waiting to date. Sporadic response from CS. Stated it was sent to Epson, but was sent to another repair shop.
nydennis is offline  
post #1807 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 09:55 AM
Member
 
mattsplat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by beever View Post

THRANG: I am the guy you have been waiting to hear from. I recently sold my AVP-A1 because I felt it was getting a little "long in the tooth" and was being ignored by Denon in favor of newer technology, better technology and things I wanted like HDMI 1.4, Sub EX and the new MultiEQ X32. I am so happy I did and so is my wallet!!

The A1 in its time was the processor to beat, it sounded great in 2 channel as well as HT and had balanced inputs and all the latest software. They did a great job keeping it up to date until about 8 months ago and then they dropped the ball, in my opinion. With the 100 year anniversary coming they decided to focus on new technology and cutting edge stuff, in the wake of that the A1 was lost in the shuffle. No more firmware updates, no announcements of an upgrade path or even a replacement. So, I waited and waited. I would have bought the A100 if it was available or even had a potential ship date but, if I did I feared I would lose thousands on the used market as the A1 and Amp continued to plummet in resale value. When the 4311 came out as the top AV receiver in the lineup (IMO) I went for it and sold my stuff on audiogon and ebay for almost as much as I paid for it. (amp and A1 for $8000) I paid 25% below retail for the 4311 from Electronics Expo and pocketed $6500. I have missed absolutely nothing sonically, it is actually an upgrade. So much so that I am loving what this sub EQ does for sound and the new X32 is leaps and bounds ahead of the previous version we had on the A1. Add HDMI 1.4 to the mix for future proofing and higher bandwidth in a single cable and this was without a doubt the best decision I have made. I also freed up another shelf in my rack, eliminated 10 XLR cables, a trigger cable and power cord, dropped about 100lbs in weight between the 2 components, lowered the heat in my rack by 20 degrees, did I mention the nearly $7000 back in my bank account...need I go on?

Great story! It's quite rare to pocket $7000 and feel like you've upgraded
mattsplat is offline  
post #1808 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 10:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by beever View Post

THRANG: I am the guy you have been waiting to hear from. I recently sold my AVP-A1 because I felt it was getting a little "long in the tooth" and was being ignored by Denon in favor of newer technology, better technology and things I wanted like HDMI 1.4, Sub EX and the new MultiEQ X32. I am so happy I did and so is my wallet!!

The A1 in its time was the processor to beat, it sounded great in 2 channel as well as HT and had balanced inputs and all the latest software. They did a great job keeping it up to date until about 8 months ago and then they dropped the ball, in my opinion. With the 100 year anniversary coming they decided to focus on new technology and cutting edge stuff, in the wake of that the A1 was lost in the shuffle. No more firmware updates, no announcements of an upgrade path or even a replacement. So, I waited and waited. I would have bought the A100 if it was available or even had a potential ship date but, if I did I feared I would lose thousands on the used market as the A1 and Amp continued to plummet in resale value. When the 4311 came out as the top AV receiver in the lineup (IMO) I went for it and sold my stuff on audiogon and ebay for almost as much as I paid for it. (amp and A1 for $8000) I paid 25% below retail for the 4311 from Electronics Expo and pocketed $6500. I have missed absolutely nothing sonically, it is actually an upgrade. So much so that I am loving what this sub EQ does for sound and the new X32 is leaps and bounds ahead of the previous version we had on the A1. Add HDMI 1.4 to the mix for future proofing and higher bandwidth in a single cable and this was without a doubt the best decision I have made. I also freed up another shelf in my rack, eliminated 10 XLR cables, a trigger cable and power cord, dropped about 100lbs in weight between the 2 components, lowered the heat in my rack by 20 degrees, did I mention the nearly $7000 back in my bank account...need I go on?

Thanks - I was thinking of keeping the POA and selling the A1 if I went this route, and use the 4311 in pre-amp mode - I'd just love if the private word I heard of an A1 upgrade was made public in terms of what it includes and when it will be coming...

Curious what is your room size, and what speakers do you use?

And yes, the DACs...do I wait for the A100?

Thanks
thrang is offline  
post #1809 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 10:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 127
Also, does anyone know if the a100 also offers the pre-amp mode like the 4311? I would presume so, but I came across a thread on another forum where that was an open question...
thrang is offline  
post #1810 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 10:53 AM
Member
 
mattsplat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Those of you still waiting on WWS orders - just got an email from Emily stating the 4311 was shipping today! It will be great to actually join the owner's club. (Instead of the pre-owner's club, what a terrible place to be!)
mattsplat is offline  
post #1811 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 10:55 AM
Advanced Member
 
unclemat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Did she say something about double boxing?
unclemat is offline  
post #1812 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 11:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fyzziks's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 1,512
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, this weekend I put the new 4311 into the system, and it works a treat running as a prepro to my IPS-1. Sounds excellent, Audyssey MultEQ setup was straightforward, and no problems with video, menus, or sound dropouts. At least not yet. But I do have a few observations on this unit.

1. It does run a little warm, and I would give plenty of room above it in a rack, or add a fan. I measured some temps with my point-and-shoot IR thermometer, and found temps of about 104 at the front, increasing to about 108 at the back. The back has all the computing, and the video and DSP chips are running about 125 or 130, so it's warm back there.

2. I checked the temperatures both in Preamp mode and Normal mode with the amps not connected to any speakers, and got basically the same values. I was a little surprised by this, since I thought that preamp mode actually turned the power off to the amps. That doesn't seem to be the case, since the temp was 104 above the amp boards.

3. Re the DAC questions, there is one AKM AK4358VQ 8-channel DAC and 2 more AKM AK4424ET 2-channel DACs. I think that's enough for 11 channels.

4. There's undoubtedly another board underneath the digital one we can see - that's where all the analog stuff is, and also perhaps the ADCs.
fyzziks is offline  
post #1813 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 11:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Djoel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,495
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsplat View Post

Those of you still waiting on WWS orders - just got an email from Emily stating the 4311 was shipping today! It will be great to actually join the owner's club. (Instead of the pre-owner's club, what a terrible place to be!)


Hmm, I guess I'll on the next batch as I pre ordered mine earlier last week, but I knew it would be the case..

Something concerning me, when I did the preorder assumed I would get some sort of confirmation via email?

I'll give them a call, and see where I'm at on the list..

Djoel
Djoel is offline  
post #1814 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 12:12 PM
Member
 
mouradb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
11-speaker setup
I'm thinking about ordering a 4311 but still unclear about one thing (even after downloading the manual).
If I connect 11 speakers (down the road) to the 4311 with no external amp, the 4311 will drive only 9. How does it know which 9 to dirve (height vs wide)? Is it a setup setting or is it something user can switch on the fly (via the remote - like the Onkyo 3008 which I'm also evaluating).
Thanks.
mouradb is offline  
post #1815 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 12:30 PM
Member
 
jobu01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouradb View Post

11-speaker setup
I'm thinking about ordering a 4311 but still unclear about one thing (even after downloading the manual).
If I connect 11 speakers (down the road) to the 4311 with no external amp, the 4311 will drive only 9. How does it know which 9 to dirve (height vs wide)? Is it a setup setting or is it something user can switch on the fly (via the remote - like the Onkyo 3008 which I'm also evaluating).
Thanks.

You can specify which speakers are to be powered by an external amplifier: fronts or height. (Pg 95 in manual)
jobu01 is offline  
post #1816 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 12:34 PM
Senior Member
 
Brent A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouradb View Post

11-speaker setup
I'm thinking about ordering a 4311 but still unclear about one thing (even after downloading the manual).
If I connect 11 speakers (down the road) to the 4311 with no external amp, the 4311 will drive only 9. How does it know which 9 to dirve (height vs wide)? Is it a setup setting or is it something user can switch on the fly (via the remote - like the Onkyo 3008 which I'm also evaluating).
Thanks.

mouradb

On page 63 and in amp “Assign Mode”, choose “11CH” (this is continued on page 64). Then on to step 6 where you choose either the Height or Front pre-outs for connecting the external amp.
I believe this is only available through the set-up and not "on-the-fly", and as far as I can tell, Heights or Fronts are your only choices if you are going to use all of the 9 internal amps.
Brent A is offline  
post #1817 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 12:52 PM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 43,002
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked: 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouradb View Post

If I connect 11 speakers (down the road) to the 4311 with no external amp, the 4311 will drive only 9. How does it know which 9 to dirve (height vs wide)? Is it a setup setting or is it something user can switch on the fly (via the remote - like the Onkyo 3008 which I'm also evaluating).
Thanks.

You can actually do both. Set Amp Assign to NORMAL (p. 63), then continue with step 8 to set the front height or wide. Also, you can use the A-DSX button on the remote (p. 90) to cycle between either the Front height or wide.

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - AVSForum sponsor for 15 years  
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun, leave message)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Oppo, Parasound 
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is online now  
post #1818 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 12:54 PM
Senior Member
 
BigZAJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 432
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am new to the 4311 game, I assume the HDMI GUI works as on previous models (I have two 2310's) where it only gives you volume if video conversion is turned on?

Also regarding the video conversion, does anyone know if anything is lost or degraded if I am using a HTPC outputting 1080p at 24fps and 60fps (depending on source material) and using video conversion on the receiver?
BigZAJ is offline  
post #1819 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 01:07 PM
Member
 
GreenTennis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post

Did she say something about double boxing?

I was just told that they will double box on request but it has to be done by phone. I sure hope that is true and not just a way to get you to order by phone instead of online.
GreenTennis is offline  
post #1820 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 01:26 PM
Senior Member
 
beever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
THRANG: I always felt the biggest reason to use external amps was for power and balanced connections. The AVR's of the past were terribly underpowered and had difficulty powering big or inefficient speakers.

This 4311 runs 7 speakers at reference levels with no distortion, so it has ample headroom for my Revel Salon 2's at 4 ohms.

As far as using it in preamp mode my first question would be "why"? My opinion would be that since the 4311 does not accept balanced inputs that your amp would not be used to its fullest potential by running in single ended. Add to that the possibility of introducing ground loop noise or background humming and you are defeating the purpose of the external amp.

If you dont need the power, cant run balanced and have the added possibility of adding noise to the signal then why would you want to run it in preamp mode? If you need more power I understand but, other than that I find the internal amp to be more than adequate, ample in power/performance and overall a great all in one package.

Let me say one more thing...

As a 20 year veteran in this hobby and always believing that separates were the way to go, I feel that in this day and age the super high end stuff in only marginally better than many of the really good mid fi stuff and much of the technology ends up trickling down to the other products in the line. The Denon AVP features are all contained in the 4311 and now the GUI is improved and is even more feature rich than the flagship.

I can promise you that if you are honest to your ears or do a blind listening test between your old a1/amp combo and the 4311 you will find them to be at worst equal in sound and at best a vast improvement over the a1/amp combo. The algorithms have gotten so good that the differences in Dac's are minor but the advantages x32 gives to the sound is based on room anomolies and as any AD will tell you, they can make a BOSE system sound good if the room is well treated and sound "proofed" and that's the truth.

Finally, I bought the 4311 over the A100 because the 4311 is available NOW. No one can tell us when the A100 will ship and personally while I would have spent the money for the gold plated connectors and lead feet (yes, I would have) in the end no one really knows if there are any internal differences at all and if there are any I could just sell the 4311 for what I paid for it and buy the A100 when it does ship.

PS: I dont know what you heard about the A1 upgrade but, my sources tell me it aint happening ever and that while it is still being produced, it has essentially been discontinued as there is no upgrade path being offered for it.
beever is offline  
post #1821 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 01:27 PM
Member
 
mouradb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks jdsmoothie. That's good news. I will like the convenience of just switching on the fly.
mouradb is offline  
post #1822 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 01:39 PM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 43,002
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked: 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigZAJ View Post

I am new to the 4311 game, I assume the HDMI GUI works as on previous models (I have two 2310's) where it only gives you volume if video conversion is turned on?

Also regarding the video conversion, does anyone know if anything is lost or degraded if I am using a HTPC outputting 1080p at 24fps and 60fps (depending on source material) and using video conversion on the receiver?

A 4311 owner can confirm, but as it uses the same (not identical) video chip as the 2310, you should expect the same results.

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - AVSForum sponsor for 15 years  
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun, leave message)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Oppo, Parasound 
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is online now  
post #1823 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 01:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by beever View Post

THRANG: I always felt the biggest reason to use external amps was for power and balanced connections. The AVR's of the past were terribly underpowered and had difficulty powering big or inefficient speakers.

This 4311 runs 7 speakers at reference levels with no distortion, so it has ample headroom for my Revel Salon 2's at 4 ohms.

As far as using it in preamp mode my first question would be "why"? My opinion would be that since the 4311 does not accept balanced inputs that your amp would not be used to its fullest potential by running in single ended. Add to that the possibility of introducing ground loop noise or background humming and you are defeating the purpose of the external amp.

If you dont need the power, cant run balanced and have the added possibility of adding noise to the signal then why would you want to run it in preamp mode? If you need more power I understand but, other than that I find the internal amp to be more than adequate, ample in power/performance and overall a great all in one package.

Let me say one more thing...

As a 20 year veteran in this hobby and always believing that separates were the way to go, I feel that in this day and age the super high end stuff in only marginally better than many of the really good mid fi stuff and much of the technology ends up trickling down to the other products in the line. The Denon AVP features are all contained in the 4311 and now the GUI is improved and is even more feature rich than the flagship.

I can promise you that if you are honest to your ears or do a blind listening test between your old a1/amp combo and the 4311 you will find them to be at worst equal in sound and at best a vast improvement over the a1/amp combo. The algorithms have gotten so good that the differences in Dac's are minor but the advantages x32 gives to the sound is based on room anomolies and as any AD will tell you, they can make a BOSE system sound good if the room is well treated and sound "proofed" and that's the truth.

Finally, I bought the 4311 over the A100 because the 4311 is available NOW. No one can tell us when the A100 will ship and personally while I would have spent the money for the gold plated connectors and lead feet (yes, I would have) in the end no one really knows if there are any internal differences at all and if there are any I could just sell the 4311 for what I paid for it and buy the A100 when it does ship.

PS: I dont know what you heard about the A1 upgrade but, my sources tell me it aint happening ever and that while it is still being produced, it has essentially been discontinued as there is no upgrade path being offered for it.

Thanks for the feedback - what I saw was an internal email from a denon representative about a week ago, indicating that an upgrade was being planned for the a1, and discussions were ongoing with engineers in japan - part of the discussion had to do with the availability of the next revision of hdmi 1.4. What the upgrade would actually entail was not revealed.

Maybe I'll order an a100 or 4311 and see which I like better before putting the a1/poa up for sale...

Can you bi-amp with the 4311?
thrang is offline  
post #1824 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 01:57 PM
Member
 
jobu01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Thanks for the feedback - what I saw was an internal email from a denon representative about a week ago, indicating that an upgrade was being planned for the a1, and discussions were ongoing with engineers in japan - part of the discussion had to do with the availability of the next revision of hdmi 1.4. What the upgrade would actually entail was not revealed.

Maybe I'll order an a100 or 4311 and see which I like better before putting the a1/poa up for sale...

Can you bi-amp with the 4311?

The fronts you can.
jobu01 is offline  
post #1825 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 02:00 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
counsil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 1,979
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I won't ever know if the 4311 would be able to drive all my Def Techs at full reference in my room as I will be putting the 4311 in pre-amp mode and using 2 Emotiva XPA-5s (for a 9.2 setup). All of my Def Techs can handle any where from 400 to 1000 watts of power so I wanted the ability to drive them cleanly to reference without ever having to worry about distortion or ear fatigue. To be honest, I made a comprise between using the 4311 internal amps and 9 monoblocks.

All I am waiting for now is my Salamander cabinet to be delivered. I have already sold my old entertainment system so I am still playing the waiting game. Hopefully the Salamander will be delivered very early next week, along with the Audyssey Pro v3.4 update.

Never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Counsil Basement HT
counsil is offline  
post #1826 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 02:19 PM
Member
 
uaswimmer1995's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Fairhope, AL
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have the 4311ci now and have an Emotiva UPA-7 amp. I'm going to run a 9.2 setup with heights (not widths). In your opinion, will I get more power, performance, and gratitude running all but the heights through the UPA-7, or should I just sell the UPA-7 now and stick with just the Denon? I'm running all Axioms: M80, VP180, and QS8 surrounds. Thanks!
uaswimmer1995 is offline  
post #1827 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 02:22 PM
Senior Member
 
james138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Outside of Detroit Rock City
Posts: 348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
As a guy who is interested in this as a pre/pro what makes it a better option than say the Integra 80.2? Just curious what drove people to this unit other than cost?

Mirkwood 4.0 Equipment List


Mirkwood Home Theater
This is my very, very outdated website.
james138 is offline  
post #1828 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 02:25 PM
Member
 
mattsplat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post

Did she say something about double boxing?

I'll copy and paste what she told me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily View Post

Hi Matt,

We are able to double box certain items on occasion. Because of the volume of the warehouse and the different warehouses that we use (some products ship from different locations) we cannot guarantee that all items will be double boxed. What we can guarantee is that if your product is damaged upon receipt and you call us within 3 days we can start a shipping claim and get you a replacement. Unfortunately it may be a hassle at times but we try to make it as seamless as possible. The job of the box is to protect its contents and the manufacturer is supposed to provide a box that will in fact protect their product for shipping. Of course we unfortunately all know that is not always the case.

Please inspect your product carefully upon receipt and call us if there are any cosmetic problems or noticeable damage. And remember, your purchase is covered by the full factory warranty as we are authorized dealers. This covers any possible manufacturing defects not associated with shipping.

As far as your order goes, it is shipping out today and you will receive tracking information via email within 24 hours. We appreciate your patience.

Kindest regards,
Emily Cole

Nothing new here, basically it may be double boxed, but who knows. I think others have already said that the manufacturer's packaging is supposed to be sufficient, and really it's UPS/Fedex (though usually seems like UPS) handling practices that are really to blame. Especially with the CI models, I'm sure it's Denon's intent that these are sold retail and/or with professional installation, so they're not double boxed by default (unlike, for example, Emotiva's products).

Emily even mentioned cosmetic problems, so I do think WWS has us covered 100% - but I'd still rather the double box.
mattsplat is offline  
post #1829 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 02:26 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
counsil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 1,979
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by james138 View Post

As a guy who is interested in this as a pre/pro what makes it a better option than say the Integra 80.2? Just curious what drove people to this unit other than cost?

Cost, 11.2 capability, and past Denon experience mainly.

Having internal amps is a plus as well.

Never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Counsil Basement HT
counsil is offline  
post #1830 of 23364 Old 10-11-2010, 03:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Djoel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,495
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenTennis View Post

I was just told that they will double box on request but it has to be done by phone. I sure hope that is true and not just a way to get you to order by phone instead of online.


Usually when you speak to someone live you get best of treatment, and even a discount as opposed to a firm price static on their page..Not much you can do once you click.

So it might be for our benefit in the end.


DJoel
Djoel is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Audyssey , Denon Avr 4311ci 9 2 Channel Network Multi Room Home Theater Receiver With Hdmi 1 4a , Denon Avr A100 100th Anniversary 9 2 140w , Denon
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off