The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 778 - AVS Forum
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post #23311 of 23571 Old 07-16-2014, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bbird View Post
Customer support was not helpful. The support person said "at this time the release for the 4311 has not been released. We do not have a date when this will be released."

I explained my concerns about my warranty expiring, and then being left with an AVR with a broken DD+ implementation for a primary source of content (Netflix).

He was slightly sympathetic. And did apologize for the "inconveniences". I asked if he could at least commit that it would eventually be fixed on the 4311. He said, " I can not commit to anything, because, they are still working on the issue.", and "Sir, Unfortunately, I can not state anything further than We are working on the issue "

I informed him about the reports here, of other warrantied customer's receiving an option to upgrade for a fee, to a newer model that includes the fix. I told him I would appreciate the same option, since it would alleviate my concerns about the warranty expiring.

His response was "I do not believe that is an option." and "We can not believe everything on the Internet".

At this point, it was clear he is either unable, or unwilling to help me. This has been my first experience with Denon gear. I'm not sure I would recommend them to others, at this point.
I try calling in many times and they were a little rude. Did you submit a ticket?
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post #23312 of 23571 Old 07-16-2014, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbird View Post
Customer support was not helpful. The support person said "at this time the release for the 4311 has not been released. We do not have a date when this will be released."

I explained my concerns about my warranty expiring, and then being left with an AVR with a broken DD+ implementation for a primary source of content (Netflix).

He was slightly sympathetic. And did apologize for the "inconveniences". I asked if he could at least commit that it would eventually be fixed on the 4311. He said, " I can not commit to anything, because, they are still working on the issue.", and "Sir, Unfortunately, I can not state anything further than We are working on the issue "

I informed him about the reports here, of other warrantied customer's receiving an option to upgrade for a fee, to a newer model that includes the fix. I told him I would appreciate the same option, since it would alleviate my concerns about the warranty expiring.

His response was "I do not believe that is an option." and "We can not believe everything on the Internet".

At this point, it was clear he is either unable, or unwilling to help me. This has been my first experience with Denon gear. I'm not sure I would recommend them to others, at this point.
I haven't had to deal with Denon, but I always find that with large company tech support departments, it's often useful to call on another day and start over with someone else as if you never had the first call. Sometimes you will get a better outcome. If not, then you can ask to talk to a supervisor as your next move.

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post #23313 of 23571 Old 07-16-2014, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by RBDan View Post
I try calling in many times and they were a little rude. Did you submit a ticket?
The person I chatted with was also very terse. It felt like he was tired of this, and had been coached to quickly shoot me down. I didn't submit a ticket. I did the live support chat. I'll give them a few more months to fix the firmware. If not, I'll just not buy Denon again.

Us 4311 owners aren't asking for a new feature. We're just asking for a bug fix for a feature the product sheet listed. I could understand if this were very old gear. But, this problem was reported and acknowledged by Denon just over a year into my ownership (purchased new).

If the hardware can't do it, they should say so, and then offer to replace with hardware that can. I find it highly unlikely, they are still researching how to fix it. The problem was identified and fixed in other platforms, months ago. At this point, the engineers almost certainly know if they can fix it, or not.
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post #23314 of 23571 Old 07-16-2014, 04:46 PM
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I submitted a ticket for mine. I'll give them a call at the end of the week. I really just want the thing fixed with a firmware patch. Not bothered about a different model or replacement.

If its a bust then probably just sell it and save some $$$ with a Sony 1050.
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post #23315 of 23571 Old 07-16-2014, 06:33 PM
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Didn't someone state that the issue began after Netflix changed their encoding? I think the 4311 played nice with Netflix for a while. With that in mind, I still want mine fixed as they took the time to fix other models.
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post #23316 of 23571 Old 07-16-2014, 06:42 PM
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Didn't someone state that the issue began after Netflix changed their encoding? I think the 4311 played nice with Netflix for a while. With that in mind, I still want mine fixed as they took the time to fix other models.
Yes - that is correct. A change was made to the DD+ encoding for Netflix which then broke some decoders on the market - mostly effecting Denon.

Considering Netflix is something you pay for each month, it just annoys me that this $1999 receiver which was advertised as "future proof" seems to be unable to be fixed.

If every owner in this thread called Denon complaining ... it would get addressed by next week !
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post #23317 of 23571 Old 07-16-2014, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post
Yes - that is correct. A change was made to the DD+ encoding for Netflix which then broke some decoders on the market - mostly effecting Denon.

Considering Netflix is something you pay for each month, it just annoys me that this $1999 receiver which was advertised as "future proof" seems to be unable to be fixed.

If every owner in this thread called Denon complaining ... it would get addressed by next week !
My complaint has been escalated.
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post #23318 of 23571 Old 07-16-2014, 06:47 PM
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My complaint has been escalated.
Good for you ! I'll be on the phone tomorrow morning ;-)
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post #23319 of 23571 Old 07-16-2014, 07:09 PM
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I'm trying again as well. I'll update as soon as I receive an answer. Thanks for the heads up or I would have never known.
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post #23320 of 23571 Old 07-16-2014, 08:17 PM
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FWIW, I submitted a ticket about the DD+ issue late last week and have not received any sort of response yet.
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post #23321 of 23571 Old 07-16-2014, 08:49 PM
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I am interested in testing my 4311 to see if it has this issue. I am not a big Netflix streaming user, so can someone recommend a movie that has DD+ so I can run the test?

Thanks!

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post #23322 of 23571 Old 07-16-2014, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I am interested in testing my 4311 to see if it has this issue. I am not a big Netflix streaming user, so can someone recommend a movie that has DD+ so I can run the test?

Thanks!
Try Jack Reacher. That was a title that the issue was very obvious on my 3808. You hear it mostly with words with "s" in it.(I think "f" also)

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post #23323 of 23571 Old 07-16-2014, 10:26 PM
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Try Jack Reacher. That was a title that the issue was very obvious on my 3808. You hear it mostly with words with "s" in it.(I think "f" also)
Aaron, I viewed 5-10 minutes of Jack Reacher, and I didn't hear any audio issues. The audio status is showing DD 5.1. Is the issue supposed to affect all 4311's?

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post #23324 of 23571 Old 07-16-2014, 10:47 PM
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Aaron, I viewed 5-10 minutes of Jack Reacher, and I didn't hear any audio issues. The audio status is showing DD 5.1. Is the issue supposed to affect all 4311's?
If you weren't getting DD+ then you wouldn't have heard the problem.
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post #23325 of 23571 Old 07-17-2014, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Aaron, I viewed 5-10 minutes of Jack Reacher, and I didn't hear any audio issues. The audio status is showing DD 5.1. Is the issue supposed to affect all 4311's?
make sure DD+ is being bitstreamed to the avr and watch "The Nightmare Before Christmas". Listen to the center channel when the title of the movie is shown at the beginning of the movie.

On my Sony blu-ray, I had to turn off its audio enhancement feature before it would bitstream DD+ instead of DD.

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post #23326 of 23571 Old 07-17-2014, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Nickff View Post
make sure DD+ is being bitstreamed to the avr and watch "The Nightmare Before Christmas". Listen to the center channel when the title of the movie is shown at the beginning of the movie.

On my Sony blu-ray, I had to turn off its audio enhancement feature before it would bitstream DD+ instead of DD.
That was one of the ways I got around the problem with my 3808. I had turned on the audio enhancement which decoded the DD+ audio, the Sony BD player did it's thing to it, then it was re-encoded to DD for output.

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post #23327 of 23571 Old 07-17-2014, 06:19 AM
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That was one of the ways I got around the problem with my 3808. I had turned on the audio enhancement which decoded the DD+ audio, the Sony BD player did it's thing to it, then it was re-encoded to DD for output.
My 4311 is in the bedroom system, and I only have two Netflix clients to choose from. One is AppleTV, and I believe I recall reading that AppleTV doesn't support DD+ right now. The other client is the built-in network app on my Sony TV, and unfortunately the Toslink audio connection from the TV to the 4311 only supports a 2.0 signal.

So, it looks like I won't be able to test whether my unit exhibits the problem. If my clients don't support DD+, I guess it is a moot point.

BTW, how would I test whether I am receiving a DD+ signal on the 4311? What is displayed when I show the Audio Info screen?

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post #23328 of 23571 Old 07-17-2014, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post


My 4311 is in the bedroom system, and I only have two Netflix clients to choose from. One is AppleTV, and I believe I recall reading that AppleTV doesn't support DD+ right now. The other client is the built-in network app on my Sony TV, and unfortunately the Toslink audio connection from the TV to the 4311 only supports a 2.0 signal.

So, it looks like I won't be able to test whether my unit exhibits the problem. If my clients don't support DD+, I guess it is a moot point.

BTW, how would I test whether I am receiving a DD+ signal on the 4311? What is displayed when I show the Audio Info screen?
The 4311's display will say "Dolby Digital +" if that is what it is decoding.
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post #23329 of 23571 Old 07-17-2014, 08:08 AM
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The 4311's display will say "Dolby Digital +" if that is what it is decoding.
Thanks, Nick. Well, that settles it--it doesn't. I tried on my downstairs system as well (Denon 4520, Sony Bravia Client and an Oppo Client). Neither of those clients result in a DD+ signal either.

I guess I just don't know what I am missing...

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post #23330 of 23571 Old 07-17-2014, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Thanks, Nick. Well, that settles it--it doesn't. I tried on my downstairs system as well (Denon 4520, Sony Bravia Client and an Oppo Client). Neither of those clients result in a DD+ signal either.

I guess I just don't know what I am missing...
Which Oppo?
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post #23331 of 23571 Old 07-17-2014, 08:11 AM
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post #23332 of 23571 Old 07-17-2014, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Thanks, Nick. Well, that settles it--it doesn't. I tried on my downstairs system as well (Denon 4520, Sony Bravia Client and an Oppo Client). Neither of those clients result in a DD+ signal either.

I guess I just don't know what I am missing...
Apple TV only support Dolby Digital
Toslink doesn't pass Dolby Digital Plus.

You must use HDMI, and must use a newer Netflix client that supports Dolby Digital Plus. It has to be Netflix as well. For whatever reason, Vudu never made the changes on their end to mess all of this up and their Dolby Digital Plus streams are OK with legacy receivers.
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post #23333 of 23571 Old 07-17-2014, 12:52 PM
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I followed up with Denon directly today by calling in. They were very nice, understood the issue and understood it did need to be fixed. Like Nickff my issue has being escalated. As a general tip, it does make it easier if you first document the problem to them via the on-line system. That way when you call, they can pull it up quickly and then escalate the issue with minimum effort.
They said someone would get back in the next 24 hours with a "response".
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post #23334 of 23571 Old 07-17-2014, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post
I followed up with Denon directly today by calling in. They were very nice, understood the issue and understood it did need to be fixed. Like Nickff my issue has being escalated. As a general tip, it does make it easier if you first document the problem to them via the on-line system. That way when you call, they can pull it up quickly and then escalate the issue with minimum effort.
They said someone would get back in the next 24 hours with a "response".
Awaiting your reply with their response. I tried calling in first (to no avail) last week, then I opened an online ticket. Also no response.
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post #23335 of 23571 Old 07-17-2014, 06:20 PM
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I submitted an online ticket too, no response in 4 days. Guess I'll have to call.


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post #23336 of 23571 Old 07-18-2014, 10:39 AM
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I submitted a ticket last week (on 7/10/2014) and as of today had not received any sort of response. So I just called Denon and spoke with a rep. After explaining the issue and giving him my ticket number, I asked if he could provide me with a timeframe for a fix. His response was to simply keep waiting and keep checking for firmware updates. I told him that wasn't an acceptable answer as they should have had plenty of time to investigate the issue and determine if a fix is possible and my obvious concern is that my warranty could expire without a fix at which point I have no recourse. So he put me on hold to speak with another rep and came back with the oh so helpful answer that the AVR-4311 can't decode Dolby Digital Plus bitstreams. Though I bit my tongue and remained civil, I told him that was BS. So he has escalated my issue to tier 2 support and they will hopefully get back to me in 24-48 hours (I'm obviously assuming that's business hours and the weekend doesn't count ).

The rep I spoke with just called back and after speaking with his supervisor, is forwarding my case to some (supposedly) big shot at the top of the support group named Ian and I should expect a response from him. I'm not sure if it will help or not, but I made it clear in my ticket that I also own an AVP-A1HDCI which has the same problem. We'll see what happens... How Denon handles this will certainly factor into any decision to purchase a future AVP replacement or any future receivers.
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post #23337 of 23571 Old 07-18-2014, 03:27 PM
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My update for the day. Despite being told I would hear back within 12 hours .... that time has now passed and I've heard nothing via phone or email.

Guess we must just keep calling them and letting them know whats up. I also sent them a message via the Facebook Denon USA page. Perhaps someone else in the organization beyond support will hear and get this sorted.
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post #23338 of 23571 Old 07-18-2014, 09:41 PM
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I submitted a ticket last week (on 7/10/2014) and as of today had not received any sort of response. So I just called Denon and spoke with a rep. After explaining the issue and giving him my ticket number, I asked if he could provide me with a timeframe for a fix. His response was to simply keep waiting and keep checking for firmware updates. I told him that wasn't an acceptable answer as they should have had plenty of time to investigate the issue and determine if a fix is possible and my obvious concern is that my warranty could expire without a fix at which point I have no recourse. So he put me on hold to speak with another rep and came back with the oh so helpful answer that the AVR-4311 can't decode Dolby Digital Plus bitstreams. Though I bit my tongue and remained civil, I told him that was BS. So he has escalated my issue to tier 2 support and they will hopefully get back to me in 24-48 hours (I'm obviously assuming that's business hours and the weekend doesn't count ).

The rep I spoke with just called back and after speaking with his supervisor, is forwarding my case to some (supposedly) big shot at the top of the support group named Ian and I should expect a response from him. I'm not sure if it will help or not, but I made it clear in my ticket that I also own an AVP-A1HDCI which has the same problem. We'll see what happens... How Denon handles this will certainly factor into any decision to purchase a future AVP replacement or any future receivers.
Thanks for the detailed update, and you persistent diligence. Hopefully this pays off.

Much appreciated,
Ben
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post #23339 of 23571 Old 07-19-2014, 12:23 PM
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My 4311ci is unable to simulate the DD+ signal issue in this thread. I used the PS3 and a new Sony Bluray BDP-S6200 DVD Player. Streamed from Netflix both Jack Reacher and Nightmare Before Christmas and nigher client showed signs of distortion in the center channel. I'm afraid I'm missing a setting ?
How many folks are suffering from this problem? Seems we could get a count here.
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post #23340 of 23571 Old 07-19-2014, 01:47 PM
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My 4311ci is unable to simulate the DD+ signal issue in this thread. I used the PS3 and a new Sony Bluray BDP-S6200 DVD Player. Streamed from Netflix both Jack Reacher and Nightmare Before Christmas and nigher client showed signs of distortion in the center channel. I'm afraid I'm missing a setting ?
How many folks are suffering from this problem? Seems we could get a count here.
When watching Nightmare, did the 4311 show "Dolby Digital +" on its display?

On the 6200 make sure digital audio enhancement is off and the player is bitstreaming the audio and not doing the decoding itself.
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