The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 783 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #23461 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
I am another 4311 owner and I don't understand everyone expecting Denon to fix an issue with Netflx that developed after the unit was replaced by another (4520) a few years ago. Oppo is held with high regard as far as customer service in a/v land. I have an 83 that hasn't had a firmware update for over two years. I believe what is making it difficult for Oppo to do so is that one of their suppliers stopped making the video chip - Anchor Bay? Did I expect Oppo to replace my 83 with a new unit - only if it was under warranty.
Oppo actually continued releasing firmware updates well after most, if not all, BDP-83's were out of warranty and even continued to add new features while it was still possible to do so, even after the next generation of players had already been out in the market for a while. The issue that prevented Oppo from releasing some updates for the BDP-83 was related to the SOC maker, MediaTek, EOL'ing the decoder chip (think of it as the main processor in the player) which meant that Oppo had no way to make some types of changes. It had nothing to do with Anchor Bay.

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Netflix made a change after the 4311 was released and replaced by a newer model. Based on what I've read on this thread for those who have a valid warranty they have gotten 4520s. Kudos to Denon for making it right for that group.
Huh? As far as I know, only 2 people have been given the option of trading their 4311's in (along with some cash) for 4520's so far. Many more of us have been getting the runaround and are still waiting for some sort of resolution.

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This hasn't been a problem for me to-date, but even if was it has no impact on my decision regarding replacement. For me I will either be buying a Denon or Pioneer Elite once Atmos is in the wild and some reviews/owner experiences are done/posted. My 4311 has been a great receiver and most likely one I will use elsewhere in my house when I replace it. Getting a discount on a new Atmos ready unit would be great or getting a 4520 would be even better, but its not something I expect Denon to do for me.
I don't see Atmos in my future. It's really only useful if you can mount ceiling speakers, which requires money to buy more speakers, having a room that they can reasonably be setup in, and no constraints such as a wife or landlord who isn't keen on the idea of mounting speakers to the ceiling. Or there's the option of replacing your existing speakers with 1 of 2 options (currently from Onkyo or Pioneer) that have drivers on the top facing the ceiling, though I question how well that will actually work, especially in rooms with cathedral or vaulted ceilings. To date, nobody I'm aware of has been offered a discount on a new Atmos ready receiver to resolve the DD+ problem and I don't expect that will happen.

Regarding expecting Denon to offer to replace the 4311 with a 4520, it's not something I would have expected them to do... UNTIL they actually did it for a few people. Once they opened that door, it's reasonable IMHO for other customers to expect to be treated in the same manner.
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post #23462 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 03:07 PM
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No, we are not missing that fact. We have acknowledged that fact already. Those other models are more recent than the already replaced 4311. IMO this is a business decision that had to be made. Forget the making money aspect of it. If you look at the mantra of doing the most good for the most number of people the 4311 will still lose out. The models fixed are the lower to middle tier in the product line. There will be more of these units sold and in service than there will be of the then flagship 4311.

I'm not making light of your situation or lessening the need for a fix, but we all need to understand that we are constantly whining about lack of service for an older, supplanted model whose replacement has already been announced. Our 4311s have an issue yes, but let's temper our disappointment and anger with a little reason and patience. Again without concrete proof that this is a defect in Denon's code, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and hope that they provide us a fix. Their poor CS for the majority of you in this matter though, is unacceptable.

Of course, I'm most likely to be able to keep a cool head since I don't stream movies so this issue has no impact on me so take all I say with a grain of salt. I'm sure I'd be right there with you with pitchfork in hand if it were affecting me.
Patience?! Uhhh... We have been told, since February, by Denon themselves, that engineers are working on a fix/fw. Nobody is assuming anything.

If we go by your logic denon should not tell us a fix is in the plans for this model. Obviously they, unlike you, believe they should fix this.

Kudos to you for not being affected, but again youre in the minority.

And its not just about wanting a fix, under warranty, its the way Denon has treated those of us that have contacted them.

As for the poster that thinks Denon is giving 4520s to those under warranty, think again. Not me. Only two are on record saying they were given the exchange.

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post #23463 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Newer models, but not any from the year the 4311 was released based on what JD has posted. Please correct me if I am wrong. Your unit being under factory warranty is unique given how long the 4520 has been out, I would expect Denon in your case to offer you a newer unit as its done with others. We all assume the fix is doable based on newer units with different capabilities/hardware being fixed, do any of us really know if it is possible regardless of the time or resource issue?
I bought mine brand new in January of 2012 from J&R Music World, so it's under warranty until January of 2015. Quite a few people bought new 4311's around the same time and Crutchfield continued to have them for a while beyond that, so there are most likely a number of 4311's out there with warranties that are good into late 2015 or even early 2016. Someone having a 4311 that's still under warranty right now definitely isn't even remotely unique - I have no idea where you're getting that idea from. Even many who bought these relatively early in the product lifecycle would just be reaching the end of their warranty periods now.

I believe many of us are assuming a fix is doable because Denon has been promising the fix for many months now... I suspect that if they had said that a fix was unlikely from the start AND hadn't provided a few people with the option to trade their 4311's for 4520's, most of us would be a lot more willing to accept the issue as it is and not complain so much about it. Instead, they've been stringing people along for months claiming that the engineers are working on a fix and handling the situation inconsistently from customer to customer - that's a recipe for making people angry.
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post #23464 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 03:14 PM
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GSR - Always enjoyed a respected you posts here and on threads like the Oppo so I hopefully will not come off as being anything but.

1. How many owners with an Denon warranty have not been offered the upgrade who have tried - 1 that I know of. Where did I imply all? Do you still have a warranty? If so I would be less than happy to put it nicely if I wasn't offered a fix/4520.
2. Oppo example remains valid regardless of it being MediaTek or Anchor Bay (thanks for the correction, I was too lazy to dig). After a certain point the support drops off, which I understand.
3. The DD+ issue was a result of a change by Netflix, how do we hold someone else accountable for a change by another company that they have no control over.
4. Does anyone know if it is fixable. I am not aware of any receiver from this product cycle getting a fix.
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post #23465 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
I bought mine brand new in January of 2012 from J&R Music World, so it's under warranty until January of 2015. Quite a few people bought new 4311's around the same time and Crutchfield continued to have them for a while beyond that, so there are most likely a number of 4311's out there with warranties that are good into late 2015 or even early 2016. Someone having a 4311 that's still under warranty right now definitely isn't even remotely unique - I have no idea where you're getting that idea from. Even many who bought these relatively early in the product lifecycle would just be reaching the end of their warranty periods now.

I believe many of us are assuming a fix is doable because Denon has been promising the fix for many months now... I suspect that if they had said that a fix was unlikely from the start AND hadn't provided a few people with the option to trade their 4311's for 4520's, most of us would be a lot more willing to accept the issue as it is and not complain so much about it. Instead, they've been stringing people along for months claiming that the engineers are working on a fix and handling the situation inconsistently from customer to customer - that's a recipe for making people angry.
That's taking a chapter from Emotiva. Not taking sides, just being realistic for those of us without a warranty. If you have one, I would expect Denon to make it right and if they don't I will join in and buy an Elite later this year.
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post #23466 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
1. How many owners with an Denon warranty have not been offered the upgrade who have tried - 1 that I know of. Where did I imply all? Do you still have a warranty? If so I would be less than happy to put it nicely if I wasn't offered a fix/4520.
Have you not been reading what a bunch of us have been saying??? Quite a few of us have 4311's that are still under warranty. Exactly TWO (2) people have been given the option to swap for a 4520. I can't give you an exact count of those who have been refused an upgrade to a 4520, but I do know that it's a lot more than 2.

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3. The DD+ issue was a result of a change by Netflix, how do we hold someone else accountable for a change by another company that they have no control over.
Again, Denon has fixed it for other models already and has been telling people they're working on a fix for the 4311 for many MONTHS now. Something Denon is not doing is pointing fingers at Netflix, which they would presumably do if they felt it was a problem that Netflix should fix.

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4. Does anyone know if it is fixable. I am not aware of any receiver from this product cycle getting a fix.
Denon has been claiming it is for a while now. Given that they haven't delivered a fix yet, it's either low on their priority list, it's really difficult to fix on the 4311 platform, or a fix isn't possible. Dunno, but once you promise something, IMO, you're on the hook to deliver.
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post #23467 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 04:25 PM
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Patience?! Uhhh... We have been told, since February, by Denon themselves, that engineers are working on a fix/fw.
Yes, patience. It's that thing many people here are in short supply of. I've been promised that there was going to be an upgrade of some of our servers at work for years and it still hasn't happened. Yet I still wait. It is what it is.

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Nobody is assuming anything.
Sure about that? A lot of people have placed blame on a Denon defect. Without concrete proof by someone showing us where in Denon's code there is a problem they are assuming it's Denon's fault. People are also assuming Denon is doing nothing to resolve the issue or that they have abandoned support of the product. Do we have proof of any of that? Sure, they may be taking a lot longer than we would like, but that in itself is not proof of any of those claims either.

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If we go by your logic denon should not tell us a fix is in the plans for this model. Obviously they, unlike you, believe they should fix this.
Please show me where in my logic that you would lead you to deduce that I think Denon should not have told you a fix is in the plans for this. Please also show me where I stated that I believe Denon should not fix this.

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Kudos to you for not being affected, but again youre in the minority.
I would love to see the numbers, but I doubt I would be in the minority. Going by the number of posters on this thread would hardly be a good sampling if that's what you're referring to. It's a known understanding that people are more apt to post complaints than positive comments. I'm pretty sure Denon has the ability to know how many 4311 are out there and can compare that to the number of cases opened. It's not that difficult.

I work in IT and can easily see how many people call to complain about a specific issue in relationship to how many users of the product we have. In business it's about revenue first, then doing the most good for the most number of people. There are probably more people with the low to mid range products they can fix with a firmware release than there are people with a flagship model that is already one generation removed from the current lineup.

Like I said previously, I would love to get this fixed sooner rather than later, but I can see from a business perspective why Denon has made the decision that they have. It sucks for us, but it is what it is. I'm guessing they'll come back to fix our DD+ issue once their new products have been released.
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post #23468 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 05:18 PM
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Yes, patience. It's that thing many people here are in short supply of. I've been promised that there was going to be an upgrade of some of our servers at work for years and it still hasn't happened. Yet I still wait. It is what it is.



Sure about that? A lot of people have placed blame on a Denon defect. Without concrete proof by someone showing us where in Denon's code there is a problem they are assuming it's Denon's fault. People are also assuming Denon is doing nothing to resolve the issue or that they have abandoned support of the product. Do we have proof of any of that? Sure, they may be taking a lot longer than we would like, but that in itself is not proof of any of those claims either.



Please show me where in my logic that you would lead you to deduce that I think Denon should not have told you a fix is in the plans for this. Please also show me where I stated that I believe Denon should not fix this.



I would love to see the numbers, but I doubt I would be in the minority. Going by the number of posters on this thread would hardly be a good sampling if that's what you're referring to. It's a known understanding that people are more apt to post complaints than positive comments. I'm pretty sure Denon has the ability to know how many 4311 are out there and can compare that to the number of cases opened. It's not that difficult.

I work in IT and can easily see how many people call to complain about a specific issue in relationship to how many users of the product we have. In business it's about revenue first, then doing the most good for the most number of people. There are probably more people with the low to mid range products they can fix with a firmware release than there are people with a flagship model that is already one generation removed from the current lineup.

Like I said previously, I would love to get this fixed sooner rather than later, but I can see from a business perspective why Denon has made the decision that they have. It sucks for us, but it is what it is. I'm guessing they'll come back to fix our DD+ issue once their new products have been released.
You seem to have a way of making useless and irrelevant analogies. So you havent gotten a server upgrade? Who gives a flyin f... You can still perform your job(which is also irrelevant...) right? Those that use netflix cannot use DD+ because the sound is garbled. Not usable. So yet another useless analogy from you. Try again?

I wont keep repeating whats going on here, most of us understand, unfortunately some never will.
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post #23469 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 05:20 PM
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I didn't buy a 4311, and watching the double-talk and duplicity coming from Denon is leading me to conclude that my x4000 is the last Denon product I'll buy, for the following reasons:

1. If Denon has made a "business decision" not to provide a firmware upgrade to solve the DD+/Netflix issue, then their duplicity (repeatedly telling customers a fix is in the works, promising call-backs that never come) is horrible customer service. They should be honest and say they won't fix it.

2. If they replaced the 4311s of a few people with new 4520s for little or no cost, they should do it for everyone who calls with a complaint about this problem. The inconsistency is compounded by lies (see #1 , above).

Now, I like my Denon products (3805, 4310--now sold, x4000, DVD-3910) a lot, but I wouldn't want to put up with horrid customer service if a future Denon product is defective. It's the same reason I wouldn't even consider purchasing a GM car at this point, except that Denon (unlike GM products) hasn't actually killed or injured anyone.

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post #23470 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 05:29 PM
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I didn't buy a 4311, and watching the double-talk and duplicity coming from Denon is leading me to conclude that my x4000 is the last Denon product I'll buy, for the following reasons:

1. If Denon has made a "business decision" not to provide a firmware upgrade to solve the DD+/Netflix issue, then their duplicity (repeatedly telling customers a fix is in the works, promising call-backs that never come) is horrible customer service. They should be honest and say they won't fix it.

2. If they replaced the 4311s of a few people with new 4520s for little or no cost, they should do it for everyone who calls with a complaint about this problem. The inconsistency is compounded by lies (see #1 , above).

Now, I like my Denon products (3805, 4310--now sold, x4000, DVD-3910) a lot, but I wouldn't want to put up with horrid customer service if a future Denon product is defective. It's the same reason I wouldn't even consider purchasing a GM car at this point, except that Denon (unlike GM products) hasn't actually killed or injured anyone.
Amen.

Good to see some are sensible!

Its unfortunate because I too like their products.

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post #23471 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 06:13 PM
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You seem to have a way of making useless and irrelevant analogies. So you havent gotten a server upgrade? Who gives a flyin f... You can still perform your job(which is also irrelevant...) right? Those that use netflix cannot use DD+ because the sound is garbled. Not usable. So yet another useless analogy from you. Try again?

I wont keep repeating whats going on here, most of us understand, unfortunately some never will.
An analogy is a comparison. That was not my intent, but whatever. If that's how you took it so be it. I was merely stating my experience since you said you were waiting since February. I can work because I can work around the limitations. It's not ideal, but it works. Can you still use Netflix? Sure you can. Just downmix to a stereo signal then use one of the upmixing processing modes in the Denon. Not ideal, but it will still work.

I get it you're upset, but will ranting here and attacking posters expedite the resolution to your issue? I'm guessing no. Like I've said all along. I'm with everyone in hoping for an expedient fix from Denon, but until there is proof of defect on their part they don't deserve the ire they are getting from many here. Lack of CS perhaps, but not for outright defect.

Do not mistake my lack of support for peoples' disdain for Denon as not understanding. I do understand the issue you are facing. I just choose not to jump on the bandwagon of raiding the Denon castle without proof of wrongdoing (lack of CS notwithstanding). People can either choose to give up and say they can't continue because of a roadblock or they can choose to find an alternative path. I choose the do the latter while I also try to remove those roadblocks for those that follow.
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post #23472 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 06:19 PM
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I bought mine brand new in January of 2012 from J&R Music World, so it's under warranty until January of 2015. Quite a few people bought new 4311's around the same time and Crutchfield continued to have them for a while beyond that, so there are most likely a number of 4311's out there with warranties that are good into late 2015 or even early 2016. Someone having a 4311 that's still under warranty right now definitely isn't even remotely unique - I have no idea where you're getting that idea from. Even many who bought these relatively early in the product lifecycle would just be reaching the end of their warranty periods now..... .
For the record, I purchased min in the Spring of 2013 with my AMEX so my warranty doesn't run out until 2017. If I were a Nextflix user I can see why someone would be upset. That said, I'm not and given my circumstance don't think I would take the cash + AVR-4520 option anyway given it's been trouble free for me so far.

Again, if you are experiencing this issue I definitely would pursue all options but wanted to express my opinion insofar as either being in the majority or minority of those that are affected by this particular dilemma.
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post #23473 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 06:23 PM
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+1 who on AVS has had great customer service from Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon (ex 2 with new 4520s), and Yamaha? Name calling not necessary by the way, but unfortunately all too common on AVS.
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post #23474 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 06:30 PM
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For the record, I purchased min in the Spring of 2013 with my AMEX so my warranty doesn't run out until 2017.
My Visa adds a year too, but I was only talking about the factory warranty. Denon themselves aren't on the hook for the extra year provided by a credit card - that extra year is a 3rd party extended warranty.
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post #23475 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 08:08 PM
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GSR - Always enjoyed a respected you posts here and on threads like the Oppo so I hopefully will not come off as being anything but.

3. The DD+ issue was a result of a change by Netflix, how do we hold someone else accountable for a change by another company that they have no control over.
It is inaccurate to single out Netflix. This is a DD+ issue, that happen to manifest after Netflix made a change to use a different DD+ encoding. These are not proprietary Netflix implementations. Dolby is the one setting the standards. As others have noted, standards are not perfect. Sometimes they result in interop problems. But, don't blame Netflix. If you want to blame someone on the encoding software side of the equation, blame Dolby. Netflix is simply using the updated DD+ encoding for some of their content, as of Fall 2013. Netflix is being singled out, because of their ubiquity in the market. Most other sources of DD+ (e.g. hd-dvd, bluray) aren't using these updated lower bit-rate encoding. And, many other streaming services aren't using DD+ at all. But, if they did, it likely to have the same problem with these Denon receivers.

The issue was a result of certain DSP's (used in many Denon AVR's) having not been validated with update DD+ encoding schemes. To Denon, and the DSP manufacturer's credit, Dolby hadn't released their updated software until Nov 2012. By then, many of these products had shipped, and were in the field or inventories. But, the E-AC-3 standards were published well before Dolby released the software updates that Netflix is using. If the standards are too ambiguous, and lead to interop problems (which I don't think is the case here), then blame the authors.

User 'duc135' has pointed out that we don't know for sure that Denon's software is to blame. He's correct. We haven't seen the code. And Denon has chosen there words very carefully in their public bulletins, as to call this an issue with decoding the Netflix streams. And, never to admit fault. However, I'm highly suspect of Denon's software being the culprit, and not Netflix's DD+ encoding methods. Considering, that many other AVR's, using other manufacturer's DSP's do no experience the issue. That combined with Denon updating dozens of other models, makes me think the decode side of this equation is the problem.

The technical aspects are only part of the problem. I don't think Denon is being an honest broker. Denon knows how to fix it. Even if it isn't their bug (and I suspect it is), they know how to workaround it. They choose not to do this on the 4311 models, where the cost of doing so, is probably minimal. But, worse is how they have mislead many customers to believe they are working on a fix (myself). And they offer some warrantied customers adequate upgrade incentives. And, tell others (myself) to get lost.
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post #23476 of 24050 Old 08-08-2014, 09:09 PM
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It is inaccurate to single out Netflix. This is a DD+ issue, that happen to manifest after Netflix made a change to use a different DD+ encoding. These are not proprietary Netflix implementations. Dolby is the one setting the standards. As others have noted, standards are not perfect. Sometimes they result in interop problems. But, don't blame Netflix. If you want to blame someone on the encoding software side of the equation, blame Dolby. Netflix is simply using the updated DD+ encoding for some of their content, as of Fall 2013. Netflix is being singled out, because of their ubiquity in the market. Most other sources of DD+ (e.g. hd-dvd, bluray) aren't using these updated lower bit-rate encoding. And, many other streaming services aren't using DD+ at all. But, if they did, it likely to have the same problem with these Denon receivers.

The issue was a result of certain DSP's (used in many Denon AVR's) having not been validated with update DD+ encoding schemes. To Denon, and the DSP manufacturer's credit, Dolby hadn't released their updated software until Nov 2012. By then, many of these products had shipped, and were in the field or inventories. But, the E-AC-3 standards were published well before Dolby released the software updates that Netflix is using. If the standards are too ambiguous, and lead to interop problems (which I don't think is the case here), then blame the authors.

User 'duc135' has pointed out that we don't know for sure that Denon's software is to blame. He's correct. We haven't seen the code. And Denon has chosen there words very carefully in their public bulletins, as to call this an issue with decoding the Netflix streams. And, never to admit fault. However, I'm highly suspect of Denon's software being the culprit, and not Netflix's DD+ encoding methods. Considering, that many other AVR's, using other manufacturer's DSP's do no experience the issue. That combined with Denon updating dozens of other models, makes me think the decode side of this equation is the problem.

The technical aspects are only part of the problem. I don't think Denon is being an honest broker. Denon knows how to fix it. Even if it isn't their bug (and I suspect it is), they know how to workaround it. They choose not to do this on the 4311 models, where the cost of doing so, is probably minimal. But, worse is how they have mislead many customers to believe they are working on a fix (myself). And they offer some warrantied customers adequate upgrade incentives. And, tell others (myself) to get lost.
Yes I agree. The problem really stems from Dolby and the chipset manufacturer than denon uses in the 4311 to sort out the DD+ decoding.

Denon acknowledged to me they are aware of the problem and do intend to fix it. Like many companies, they won't give you any indication on when however ! The best you can do is keep pestering them. Send a message via their Facebook page if you don't get resolution via customer support.

The cheapest workaround however is purchase a Apple TV 3. It will play 1080p 5800kb/s super dh titles with just regular old DD. Perhaps cheaper than buying a new receiver or even upgrading to a new 4350. I actually don't want either the 4350 or x4000, as neither has Dolby volume which I use quite reguarly.
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post #23477 of 24050 Old 08-09-2014, 02:20 PM
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Have you all seen this site? http://dmnewsroom.org

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If you get any calls on the DD+ issue with the AVR-4311CI please tell the customer the following:

Thank you for your inquiry. We have been in contact with the engineers on this issue and are awaiting on their response on a time frame for when this will be resolved.
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Should you receive a call from a customer who is calling in about Dolby Digital Plus, please put Dolby Digital Plus in subject line. This need to be done with each call related to DD+. Once this has been done, please assign the incident to Ean. If you have any questions do not hesitate to ask Ean.

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post #23478 of 24050 Old 08-09-2014, 02:55 PM
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Have you all seen this site? http://dmnewsroom.org
Wow, is that site supposed to be open to the public?
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post #23479 of 24050 Old 08-09-2014, 03:17 PM
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Wow, is that site supposed to be open to the public?
I'm going to say no, but it's already been indexed by the search engines so it's definitely visible.

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post #23480 of 24050 Old 08-09-2014, 04:17 PM
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That sight undoubtedly is not intended for anyone other than Denon employees, but clearly they missed the security 101 class. Since they left the barn door open, I found this post about greetings a bit amusing. While I agree that what they're talking about there is important at some level, it's far more important to actually address the problem the customer is calling about and to treat customers consistently. What we've been discussing for the last few days is a perfect example - once you offer a trade-in program for a few customers, you pretty much have to allow that option to all customers who are experiencing the same problem. Before the days of the Internet, companies could get away with inconsistencies like this, but not anymore as there's so much information out there now.
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post #23481 of 24050 Old 08-09-2014, 04:55 PM
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Called and finally spoke to a manager named Lori. She told me that my case has been escalated above her by two levels and that shes been emailing that person daily, notifying him that i want a call back. Probably just more stalling. Ill give it a week.

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post #23482 of 24050 Old 08-09-2014, 05:57 PM
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Called and finally spoke to a manager named Lori. She told me that my case has been escalated above her by two levels and that shes been emailing that person daily, notifying him that i want a call back. Probably just more stalling. Ill give it a week.
I was told the same thing...a week ago.
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post #23483 of 24050 Old 08-09-2014, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jconjason View Post
Called and finally spoke to a manager named Lori. She told me that my case has been escalated above her by two levels and that shes been emailing that person daily, notifying him that i want a call back. Probably just more stalling. Ill give it a week.
FWIW, I spoke with a Lori yesterday when I called. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same Lori as I doubt their call center is huge.
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post #23484 of 24050 Old 08-09-2014, 06:31 PM
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I was told the same thing...a week ago.
Yeah, its frustrating because we cant really do much. I think im going to file with the BBB Monday.





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FWIW, I spoke with a Lori yesterday when I called. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same Lori as I doubt their call center is huge.
That's funny! I was told yesterday there were no managers in the building. Yet another lie. Just ridiculous.

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post #23485 of 24050 Old 08-10-2014, 12:12 PM
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My Denon4311 is asking if I want to update the firmware since yesterday...

Where can I see the changelog ?
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post #23486 of 24050 Old 08-10-2014, 12:18 PM
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My Denon4311 is asking if I want to update the firmware since yesterday...

Where can I see the changelog ?
Its for Rhapsody.

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post #23487 of 24050 Old 08-11-2014, 06:05 AM
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Zone 2 + Heights & Wides?

I've been experimenting with either Heights or Wides using the Zone 2 Amp Assign input. Can I use BOTH Heights & Wides and still utilize Zone 2, or do I need a separate Amp to power Zone 2?

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post #23488 of 24050 Old 08-11-2014, 06:43 AM
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^^
5.1 + 2 (wide) + 2 (Height) = 9CH which is capability of AVR. Zone 2 would require external amp.

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post #23489 of 24050 Old 08-11-2014, 08:47 AM
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^^
5.1 + 2 (wide) + 2 (Height) = 9CH which is capability of AVR. Zone 2 would require external amp.
Thanks JD - looks like I need to be on the lookout for a small amp to power Zone 2.

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post #23490 of 24050 Old 08-11-2014, 08:51 AM
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^^
If you don't have an old AVR that you can repurpose for Zone 2 ... the following works quite well ... usually selling for $100 but recently jumped in price for some unknown reason ....

http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-AM.../dp/B00026BQJ6

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Audyssey , Denon Avr 4311ci 9 2 Channel Network Multi Room Home Theater Receiver With Hdmi 1 4a , Denon Avr A100 100th Anniversary 9 2 140w , Denon
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