The Official Integra DHC-80.2 Pre/Pro Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 3830 Old 10-14-2010, 01:15 PM
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My DHC-80.2 and DTA-70.1 are on their way!!!
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post #272 of 3830 Old 10-14-2010, 07:22 PM
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Well my video issue just got worse. My cab/sat hdmi input stopped working. Had to switch to another input which works fine. Looks like this unit is going back for another one. Not happy right now.
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post #273 of 3830 Old 10-14-2010, 07:31 PM
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I really need to upgrade my old Integra receiver because I switched it from an AV receiver to a pre a year ago after buying a Rotel amp but what's this I hear about heat and especially about Audyssey ratcheting down the punch in my HT setup? I want room correction but not at the cost of the pow-pow and click-clack. Is the DHC 80.2 for me? I have a DTR 6.2 now, feel free to laugh, but not too much. -thanks
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post #274 of 3830 Old 10-14-2010, 08:15 PM
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Verdict on 80.2 still out but once bugs are addressed seems to an exciting advance. You can always bring back boom and splat if you do not like the sound that the director intends by fiddling with the levels and audio adjustments after x32 does it's thing.
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post #275 of 3830 Old 10-14-2010, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

Well my video issue just got worse. My cab/sat hdmi input stopped working. Had to switch to another input which works fine. Looks like this unit is going back for another one. Not happy right now.

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post #276 of 3830 Old 10-14-2010, 10:31 PM
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I think I'll stay on the fence a little while on this one. We don't have an official Integra distributor in Norway that I know of, so if i get one it'll be a bit of a hassle getting it looked at. I'll wait for the bugs to be ironed out, maybe...

Noone knows about the XLR outputs? Are they true balanced or quasi?

"Unplugging the signal cable is pretty much the ultimate in component isolation. Now if you removed the AC power and it still did it you should look for the little blond girl saying "they're he-re."
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post #277 of 3830 Old 10-14-2010, 10:49 PM
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I ordered an 80.2 today. Hopefully it won't have too many early production bugs but I'm sure that's wishful thinking. I also ordered the Onkyo doc. Supposed to be here Tues
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post #278 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atledreier View Post

I think I'll stay on the fence a little while on this one. We don't have an official Integra distributor in Norway that I know of, so if i get one it'll be a bit of a hassle getting it looked at. I'll wait for the bugs to be ironed out, maybe...

Noone knows about the XLR outputs? Are they true balanced or quasi?

They are not true balanced.
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post #279 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 12:28 AM
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Thank you. I see the manual state 11V peak to peak pre-out, and the connection schematic show hot, cold and gnd pins, but then I guess that's bs then, same as the Onkyo 5508. The manuals are pretty much carbon copies of each other anyway.

"Unplugging the signal cable is pretty much the ultimate in component isolation. Now if you removed the AC power and it still did it you should look for the little blond girl saying "they're he-re."
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post #280 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

Well my video issue just got worse. My cab/sat hdmi input stopped working. Had to switch to another input which works fine. Looks like this unit is going back for another one. Not happy right now.

Thats worrisome. I'm having no issues so far (knock on wood). But also I haven't had much time to watch/listen to much either.

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post #281 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

Well my video issue just got worse. My cab/sat hdmi input stopped working. Had to switch to another input which works fine. Looks like this unit is going back for another one. Not happy right now.

I think I found the root of my video issue. I tried to run my DVDO Edge through the processor and when I do that for some reason it disables the hdmi input I'm using. After a hard reset the input still doesn't work. That just shouldn't be. I set the resolution as "through" on the 80.2 so it should just pass the signal. If you have an outboard video processor be cautioned that the two may not play well together. The Edge certainly doesn't. I disconnected the Edge and am using another hdmi input and it's working fine again.
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post #282 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 05:32 AM
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using a DVDO Duo - seems OK --
have you removed the Edge from the system?
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post #283 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 06:19 AM
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using a DVDO Duo - seems OK --
have you removed the Edge from the system?

yeah.
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post #284 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 06:32 AM
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I have to say I'm a bit confounded by the lack of 11.X with this unit. You'd think they'd have employed it simply to compete with Denon. Sticking with 9.X surely will lose them some sales. Odd to me, so heights OR wides are worthy of inclusion, but not both?

I'll have a larger room soon, and I've already heard the bene's of an 11.2 array. Pretty convincing, even with 5.1 media.

I really like this unit, but it looks like I'll be picking up the Denon 4311/AVR 100.

Good luck gentlemen, looks like an awesome pre.

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post #285 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

I think I found the root of my video issue. I tried to run my DVDO Edge through the processor and when I do that for some reason it disables the hdmi input I'm using. After a hard reset the input still doesn't work. That just shouldn't be. I set the resolution as "through" on the 80.2 so it should just pass the signal. If you have an outboard video processor be cautioned that the two may not play well together. The Edge certainly doesn't. I disconnected the Edge and am using another hdmi input and it's working fine again.

so all is ok now with all your inputs as long as you do not run the :edge:?

Joel
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post #286 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 08:14 AM
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post #287 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigslue View Post


They are not true balanced.

The outputs are "true balanced" in the sense that a balanced signal is derived from a single-ended signal to drive the output. That is all that is required to derive the benefit of balanced cables. The circuit is not balanced throughout, though that it of debatable benefit. A balanced circuit only has benefit in canceling noise if at some point it is combined.

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post #288 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

I think I found the root of my video issue. I tried to run my DVDO Edge through the processor and when I do that for some reason it disables the hdmi input I'm using. After a hard reset the input still doesn't work. That just shouldn't be. I set the resolution as "through" on the 80.2 so it should just pass the signal. If you have an outboard video processor be cautioned that the two may not play well together. The Edge certainly doesn't. I disconnected the Edge and am using another hdmi input and it's working fine again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

so all is ok now with all your inputs as long as you do not run the :edge:

Joel


Well, I want to use my Edge, so this is starting to look problematic in my case.

I guess it would be possible to take the HDMI video directly to my projector and the HDMI audio directly to the Integra processor. However, even if this can be done, such a configuration apparently would eliminate the on-screen menu for interfacing with the Integra. Monitoring and controlling the functions of the Integra would need to be done exclusively through its front panel display.

I dunno...I suppose this could be considered a fairly significant functionality issue, but it may not be a deal killer for me. We'll see.


Tom

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post #289 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post

Well, I want to use my Edge, so this is starting to look problematic in my case.

I guess it would be possible to take the HDMI video directly to my projector and the HDMI audio directly to the Integra processor. However, even if this can be done, such a configuration apparently would eliminate the on-screen menu for interfacing with the Integra. Monitoring and controlling the functions of the Integra would need to be done exclusively through its front panel display.

I dunno...I suppose this could be considered a fairly significant functionality issue, but it may not be a deal killer for me. We'll see.


Tom

Perhaps this is an issue that firmware could address rather than hardware. The change to the new HDMI (3d, audio return etc) may raise some issues not anticipated with the edge with the new advanced HDMI inputs and thus not yet addressed.

I would hope this issue will now be addressed to the Integra development team.
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post #290 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post

Well, I want to use my Edge, so this is starting to look problematic in my case.

I guess it would be possible to take the HDMI video directly to my projector and the HDMI audio directly to the Integra processor. However, even if this can be done, such a configuration apparently would eliminate the on-screen menu for interfacing with the Integra. Monitoring and controlling the functions of the Integra would need to be done exclusively through its front panel display.

I dunno...I suppose this could be considered a fairly significant functionality issue, but it may not be a deal killer for me. We'll see.


Tom

Cant you get the OSD up to the projector with an extra HDMI or video cabel.
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post #291 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post

Well, I want to use my Edge, so this is starting to look problematic in my case.

I guess it would be possible to take the HDMI video directly to my projector and the HDMI audio directly to the Integra processor. However, even if this can be done, such a configuration apparently would eliminate the on-screen menu for interfacing with the Integra. Monitoring and controlling the functions of the Integra would need to be done exclusively through its front panel display.

I dunno...I suppose this could be considered a fairly significant functionality issue, but it may not be a deal killer for me. We'll see.


Tom

Why can't you just put the Edge downstream of the Integra?
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post #292 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

The outputs are "true balanced" in the sense that a balanced signal is derived from a single-ended signal to drive the output. That is all that is required to derive the benefit of balanced cables. The circuit is not balanced throughout, though that it of debatable benefit. A balanced circuit only has benefit in canceling noise if at some point it is combined.

When most people ask if something is truly balanced they usually mean is it a balanced circuit designed component. If they didn't know there was a difference they wouldn't know to ask the question and would probably assume all XLR/balanced outputs components are designed the same.
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post #293 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigslue View Post

When most people ask if something is truly balanced they usually mean is it a balanced circuit designed component. If they didn't know there was a difference they wouldn't know to ask the question and would probably assume all XLR/balanced outputs components are designed the same.

I've always taken that question to be purely an exercise in ... semantics, or they heard it somewhere. If you need balanced lines due to a long run and/or high EMI/RF, then you need them even if you need to use baluns. If the gear already has balanced in/outs, then you are going to use them whether the circuitry is "true" balanced or not. Right?

Jeff
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post #294 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 01:14 PM
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What it comes down to to me is a truly balanced circuit design is the best way to design a circuit for optimum performance and thats the way I understand the question of is it truly balanced. To me the cable means nothing except it's part of the complete balanced circuit between 2 balanced design components. I really don't think having XLR cables in its self is really going to make much difference besides the nice connectors. I have even seen a few lab measurements that showed a component actually measure worse with the balanced connections compared to the unbalanced connectors form an unbalanced circuit designed component, so I assume it's because it was converted to balanced.
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post #295 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigslue View Post

What it comes down to to me is a truly balanced circuit design is the best way to design a circuit for optimum performance and thats the way I understand the question of is it truly balanced. To me the cable means nothing except it's part of the complete balanced circuit between 2 balanced design components. I really don't think having XLR cables in its self is really going to make much difference besides the nice connectors. I have even seen a few lab measurements that showed a component actually measure worse with the balanced connections compared to the unbalanced connectors form an unbalanced circuit designed component, so I assume it's because it was converted to balanced.

If you do not need balanced lines due to distance and/or "noisy" environment, then there is nothing to gain by using them. Some will point to the more rugged connectors and I guess that there is something to be said for that, but there is no performance advantage AFAIK with balanced over single-ended.

Don't know what was up with the gear that measured worse ...

Jeff
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post #296 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

If you do not need balanced lines due to distance and/or "noisy" environment, then there is nothing to gain by using them. Some will point to the more rugged connectors and I guess that there is something to be said for that, but there is no performance advantage AFAIK with balanced over single-ended.

Don't know what was up with the gear that measured worse ...

Jeff


Good points

Long runs to a subwoofer might be helped with balanced due to potential for hum.

I also find in my home that anything longer than about 12' picks up some hum so xlr is better for the longer runs. I try to keep amps close to speakers if I can.
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post #297 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 02:44 PM
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Long runs to a subwoofer might be helped with balanced due to potential for hum.

It would help ONLY if the subwoofer amp inverts one of the signal legs before combining both legs. Otherwise, the noise won't be cancelled. I think the XLR connections on most subwoofer plate amps are just that: XLR connections (as opposed to balanced inputs). So no benefit from using balanced cables.

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post #298 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

It would help ONLY if the subwoofer amp inverts one of the signal legs before combining both legs. Otherwise, the noise won't be cancelled. I think the XLR connections on most subwoofer plate amps are just that: XLR connections (as opposed to balanced inputs). So no benefit from using balanced cables.

Isn't there rejection simply from the twisted pair? Also, isn't the shielding usually better on the cabling used for balanced lines?
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post #299 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

It would help ONLY if the subwoofer amp inverts one of the signal legs before combining both legs. Otherwise, the noise won't be cancelled. I think the XLR connections on most subwoofer plate amps are just that: XLR connections (as opposed to balanced inputs). So no benefit from using balanced cables.

made a big difference with my Martin Logan Descent i.

lots of hum to no hum.

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post #300 of 3830 Old 10-15-2010, 03:18 PM
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So to get back to use of the 80.2 what are the pros versus cons of using the hieghts versus the wides or both and then no rears in various sized rooms?

I am clueless on the high and wide speakers that Audyssey now makes available with the 80.2

In my system the Martin logan Vantages are about 10' apart and each 3' from all walls. The center ML theater is on the ceiling but down about two feet to be just above the kuro 151, the dipole NHT surrounds are at each end of the couch which is 8 feet or so from the Vantages and 10' from the TV and the rears are 4' behind the couch placed in the ceiling and too far apart but not easily moved. Sub is to the left of TV-may put a 2nd sub behind the couch.

I have lots of older amps sitting on the shelf right now and I could use the speakers that came with the 151 for the high or wide speakers. Those speakers are currently in my office being used as computer speakers with one of amps (old Hafler).

So what makes sense in my case and are there general rules one can use to figure this out?



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