The Official Integra DHC-80.2 Pre/Pro Thread - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 3832 Old 12-29-2010, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Z06_Pilot View Post

Hi, per what JMS said, same here. on some material, I don't hear any relays during FF or RW. On other material, I hear them click on FF and RW.

I never hear any clicks on BD material. ever. as it has been covered ad nauseum in this string, it all comes down to the type of material and source being viewed, as to whether you will hear them and how often.

I have no clue why these occur. Integra is a very innovative company-that's obvious from the quality and functionality of their products. Integra are the only pre/pros that I have ever personally heard that do this. it's kind of crazy.

you get used to the relays after a short while, and the only time you notice them is when someone new comes over and asks whether you have crickets in the house :-)

As a recent 80.2 buyer who was concerned about the relay clicks, I can say that they are present and would be annoying to me and my family members, were the unit within closer listening range. My unit is for our HT and sits around a corner from our seats in an open closet about 8 ft away, so I don't notice it too much, except during commercials (cable) and during previews and ff/rwd (blu-ray). I am a little confused how Integra overlooked this apparent design issue (not a "flaw", really, since my unit works perfectly -- clickety-clackety relays included). There is a way to avoid some of the clicks through particular fixed sound output settings for each source, but that can be an unacceptable compromise to some users in changing the native audio format (search this thread).

If the 80.2 were used for our every-day, primary viewing system in our family room, I would have either found a way to hide the unit in a cabinet or gone with something else.
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post #1262 of 3832 Old 12-29-2010, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPLawren View Post

As a recent 80.2 buyer who was concerned about the relay clicks, I can say that they are present and would be annoying to me and my family members, were the unit within closer listening range. My unit is for our HT and sits around a corner from our seats in an open closet about 8 ft away, so I don't notice it too much, except during commercials (cable) and during previews and ff/rwd (blu-ray). I am a little confused how Integra overlooked this apparent design issue (not a "flaw", really, since my unit works perfectly -- clickety-clackety relays included). There is a way to avoid some of the clicks through particular fixed sound output settings for each source, but that can be an unacceptable compromise to some users in changing the native audio format (search this thread).

If the 80.2 were used for our every-day, primary viewing system in our family room, I would have either found a way to hide the unit in a cabinet or gone with something else.

As I have said several times before, I really think the relay clicking issue is quite overblown. Yes, Integra could have chosen a quieter relay, but they did not. So, that's the way it is, and here we are.

The real issue is, once again for the umteenth time, getting the Listening Mode Presets in the Integra setup menu set consistently so that they do not trigger the relay in the first place. I still believe most complainers have not done this. Yes, the major annoying issue seems to be on CBL/SAT as the program material changes between Mch program and stereo (or possibly mono) commercials. I cannot speak for all cable/sat boxes or providers, but with my Comcast Motorola box via HDMI, I have zero relay clicks ever on watching TV or changing channels because I have taken the time to set uo the Listening Mode Presets properly. I know exacltly how to mis-do this or do it correctly to trigger the relay or not. It may differ on other services/boxes, so I cannot offer a blanket prescription. But, If you take the time to get these settings correct and consistent for your service provider, I think it will make all the difference.

The only time I hear relay clicking is on chapter skips on a hi rez, lossless Blu-ray. I do not know of a solution for that, but it comes up so rarely for me that it is a total non-issue.
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post #1263 of 3832 Old 12-30-2010, 10:23 AM
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What I don't understand is why the relay clicks are not as loud on later models. I can handle the clicks in the 886P or 9.8 before that but the 80.1 was too much from my LP and if the 80.2 is the same then will have to pass until they remedy this.

I did try everything including your listening mode presets fitz but to no avail. I have DirecTv and maybe that's the problem but I mainly had issues with Showtime and ESPN, both in HD. All the showtime problems were with DVR'ed shows but that was mainly audio dropouts.

A good friend of mine loves his 80.1 but he also has it sitting in a closet, even though his clicks are as loud as mine it doesn't bug him due to location.

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post #1264 of 3832 Old 12-30-2010, 03:07 PM
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Alright guys just picked up my new 80.2 yesterday and I'm looking forward to setting it up, although that won't happen for another couple weeks. I'm hoping to hear a pretty big sonic leap forward from my 5 year old Sony 5ES that I used as a pre/pro. Anyways I'm looking for some cable recommendation. I need new 6ft XLR cables and I was thinking about monoprice, does anybody know of any other budget cables I could check out?

Also I'm guessing I'll need to recalibrate my TV set now, what (other than a professional!) should I use to calibrate it? What calibration disc do people use now?

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post #1265 of 3832 Old 12-30-2010, 03:17 PM
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The Spears BluRay that came with my Oppo would be a good 1st cut at the video. I have a kuro 151 and I did the full calibration with stuff at the controlcal site. However it all depends on the tv. The Spears blu ray has a lot of tests that can help you see what is the status of your set. Digital video. Essentials is also use full.
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post #1266 of 3832 Old 12-30-2010, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by james138 View Post

I'm looking for some cable recommendation. I need new 6ft XLR cables and I was thinking about monoprice, does anybody know of any other budget cables I could check out?

Monoprice XLR's did wonders for me.
80.2 -> Krell KAV 500 -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor's.
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post #1267 of 3832 Old 12-30-2010, 06:37 PM
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Monoprice XLR's did wonders for me.
80.2 -> Krell KAV 500 -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor's.

Awesome! I'm excited you like them.

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post #1268 of 3832 Old 12-30-2010, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post
As I have said several times before, I really think the relay clicking issue is quite overblown. Yes, Integra could have chosen a quieter relay, but they did not. So, that's the way it is, and here we are.

The real issue is, once again for the umteenth time, getting the Listening Mode Presets in the Integra setup menu set consistently so that they do not trigger the relay in the first place. I still believe most complainers have not done this. Yes, the major annoying issue seems to be on CBL/SAT as the program material changes between Mch program and stereo (or possibly mono) commercials. I cannot speak for all cable/sat boxes or providers, but with my Comcast Motorola box via HDMI, I have zero relay clicks ever on watching TV or changing channels because I have taken the time to set uo the Listening Mode Presets properly. I know exacltly how to mis-do this or do it correctly to trigger the relay or not. It may differ on other services/boxes, so I cannot offer a blanket prescription. But, If you take the time to get these settings correct and consistent for your service provider, I think it will make all the difference.

The only time I hear relay clicking is on chapter skips on a hi rez, lossless Blu-ray. I do not know of a solution for that, but it comes up so rarely for me that it is a total non-issue.
Fitz...I sense your frustration and this isn't a personal attack, but the issue isn't as simple as you portray. I've owned other pieces of Integra equipment and I'm familiar with setting the default listening modes like you describe, it doesn't however seem to make a difference with certain devices I have connected to my 80.2. Similar to other complaints, DirecTV appears to be the biggest culprit for relay clicks in my set up regardless of the default listening mode I select. Historically I've been able to mitigate the relay clicks like you describe above however that is not the case with my current theater set up. I'm glad you've been able to mitigate the clicks you hear, but for others who may not be able to do the same, the relay click issue is a frequent nuisance. I believe the gravity of the issue is dependent upon specific equipment connected to the 80.2.
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post #1269 of 3832 Old 12-30-2010, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by james138 View Post
Alright guys just picked up my new 80.2 yesterday and I'm looking forward to setting it up, although that won't happen for another couple weeks. I'm hoping to hear a pretty big sonic leap forward from my 5 year old Sony 5ES that I used as a pre/pro. Anyways I'm looking for some cable recommendation. I need new 6ft XLR cables and I was thinking about monoprice, does anybody know of any other budget cables I could check out?

Also I'm guessing I'll need to recalibrate my TV set now, what (other than a professional!) should I use to calibrate it? What calibration disc do people use now?
go to your local musical instrument dealer and buy some.....for the same price or cheaper and u don't have to wait !
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post #1270 of 3832 Old 12-31-2010, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

As I have said several times before, I really think the relay clicking issue is quite overblown. Yes, Integra could have chosen a quieter relay, but they did not. So, that's the way it is, and here we are.

The real issue is, once again for the umteenth time, getting the Listening Mode Presets in the Integra setup menu set consistently so that they do not trigger the relay in the first place. I still believe most complainers have not done this. Yes, the major annoying issue seems to be on CBL/SAT as the program material changes between Mch program and stereo (or possibly mono) commercials. I cannot speak for all cable/sat boxes or providers, but with my Comcast Motorola box via HDMI, I have zero relay clicks ever on watching TV or changing channels because I have taken the time to set uo the Listening Mode Presets properly. I know exacltly how to mis-do this or do it correctly to trigger the relay or not. It may differ on other services/boxes, so I cannot offer a blanket prescription. But, If you take the time to get these settings correct and consistent for your service provider, I think it will make all the difference.

The only time I hear relay clicking is on chapter skips on a hi rez, lossless Blu-ray. I do not know of a solution for that, but it comes up so rarely for me that it is a total non-issue.

Interesting, fitz. Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what "properly" implies here. I.e., for DirecTV my preset is TV Logic. I like Neo:6 Movie as well. Either way, I get plenty of clicks.
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post #1271 of 3832 Old 12-31-2010, 12:18 PM
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Fitz is extremely helpful and knowledgeable but with this clicking issue he is under the false impression that it is all user error. It seems to be a issue with the compatibility with DirecTv and Fitz doesn't use that service. There could also be other things that get the clicking going but DirecTv was the problem for me.

For the umteenth time some of us have bad clicking problems and some of us don't, it's definitely not overblown if your the one living with these issues.

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post #1272 of 3832 Old 12-31-2010, 01:02 PM
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Settings in both dtv receiver and the avr both affect this issue.
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post #1273 of 3832 Old 12-31-2010, 08:07 PM
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This is still the main reason (relay clicking) I haven't purchased this item yet and am starting to kick myself because the DTR version (Built in amps/receiver, but can still be used exactly the same as a pre-pro/the DHC) sold on eBay a few weeks ago for $1600. I thought more would come and hopefully a formal review would come out but so far, neither has appeared.

Does anyone know of any "upcoming" reviews of the Onkyo 5508 or the DHC/DTR-80.2?

I use a DirecTV HR22 and honestly my "video" use is about 90% DirecTV and 10% Blu-Ray at this time. I do listen to about 50% audio, however, but that other 40-50% of the time, dealing with the possibly overbearing relay clicks is freaking me out.

Here's the real issue as I see it though. Some are stating is is very bad and some are stating they've all but resolved it with listening modes. Some use DirecTV and some don't. Some have the equipment far away or in another room and some don't.

All of this is SUBJECTIVE. I'd like to know if anyone else has DirecTV and the 5508/80.2 and if they can comment as to the placement of the pre-pro in reference to the MLP and how badly this affects them.

I'd also like to know if anyone has the capability (and is willing) to MEASURE how loud these clicking noises are and if they are always the same volume or sometimes softer/louder, mostly loud, mostly soft, etc.

I don't have the luxury of auditioning one first, but since it doesn't appear if a formal review is coming out any time soon, if we could start getting some objective results instead of subjective opinions, it would most definitely help me and probably help many others decide once and for all. (I don't mean to imply the relay clicking is the only issue or reason I haven't made the purchase yet, however.)

Also, and I admit this may sound lame, I have a Denon 5805CI that only clicks when "mute" is pressed or the device is powered on/off. I can honestly say I hate muting the unit and have had it for 3 years and NEVER turn it off (It runs 24/7 and I mute it before I go to bed) not because I'm anal about the "sound" of the clicks but rather I hate "mechanical" noise because mechanical things BREAK and I have had bad luck in the past and am more than a little paranoid. (I've had so many things in the past that I've turned off and then would never turn back on, lol!) So I suppose my question/concern is moreso that I'm afraid of the seemingly massive amounts of clicks, especially since I watch so much DirecTV, rather than being so concerned about the noise, since I have a dedicated theater and dedicated equipment room, I'll never hear them anyway.

Does anyone have any comments to put me to rest (or should I check into the nut house ) about the possible mechanical failure due to excessive relay clicks or am I "not" freaking out over nothing and could it very well cause a failure after a few hundred thousand clicks?

I've rambled on enough, but again, I would like some comments/comparisons from OTHER DirecTV users and would LOVE it (like most I'm sure) if Kal or SOMEBODY would get the opportunity to review either the Onkyo or one of the 80.2's as they're basically the same unit.

Thanks guys and Happy New Year!!

--J

Thanks to EVERYONE that Helps Make These Threads so Awesome!

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post #1274 of 3832 Old 12-31-2010, 09:22 PM
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It seems as though the 'clicking' issue has been discussed ad nauseum.
I feel whatever wheezes, burps, hiccups, or passing gas noise emanating from any of the .1 OR .2 pre/pros and/or receivers is a non-issue compared to what these products bring to the table.
I do not believe there has been a mention by any Forum members that they have requested a refund and/or exchange because they let a leetle clicking noise overshadow the benefits of these fine pieces
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Your battery operated wall clock clicks too...have u thrown it away yet ?

Just purchase one and ENJOY as all the others AVSF ladies and gents have !!!
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post #1275 of 3832 Old 12-31-2010, 10:20 PM
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I have a DirecTV HR22 connected to my 80.2. Every time I pause, skip forward or back, ff or rew, or change the channel, I hear a click. It's very annoying, and like Jevansoh, I don't feel like the click is all that healthy from a mechanical perspective. My 80.2 sits in an enclosed a/v cabinet about 15 feet away from the main listening position, the relay clicks are still audible with the cabinet doors closed. On the other hand, whenever I use the 80.2 with other devices (Oppo BDP-83, PS3, Xbox 360, and Toshiba HD-A35), the relay clicks are very minimal and I can live with them. DirecTV seems to be the primary culprit in my set up. My frustration with DirecTV has been growing over time and this has given me an excuse to try another provider. I'm just waiting for CES to see what's announced before making my decision. I realize not everyone may want to go in that direction, but that is how I plan on dealing with the issue.

Relay clicks aside, the 80.2 is a solid piece of equipment and it has a lot going for it. I didn't care for Audyssey in the past but I really like the XT32 implementation. I like how it calibrates my two subwoofer's independent of each other. In fact, I plan on upgrading to the Pro version shortly. I also love the ISF calibration and use it to dial in my Pioneer projector. The network features have been rock solid for me and the process to update the firmware is about as easy as it comes. Pandora also seems to get a lot of play time. In the end, I would have to agree with alanl715. Pull the trigger and if you find yourself not satisfied with the unit, you shouldn't have any problems selling it.
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post #1276 of 3832 Old 12-31-2010, 10:43 PM
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I have a hr20-100. I think Direct Tv is part of the issue. As I have said this is not big deal for me. System is Outlaw 7500. Bryston 4b sst with Martin Logan sub and speakers via XLR. Unit is 10 feet from couch.

I hear clicks but do not focus on them.

My oppo 83 and my squeeze touch do not give me many clicks.
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post #1277 of 3832 Old 01-01-2011, 08:07 AM
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Made the transition yesterday. Significant improvement in sound quality over the 9.8. I noticed improved channel separation/definition (higher resolution) and improved bass integration/response (I have two subs). The relay clicking is indeed louder then the 9.8 but fortunately I am using the 80.2 for Blue Ray movie watching only in my dedicated HT, no satellite TV. I would not be pleased with the clicking if I had it in my Direct TV system.
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post #1278 of 3832 Old 01-01-2011, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by shumi_9 View Post

Made the transition yesterday. Significant improvement in sound quality over the 9.8. I noticed improved channel separation/definition (higher resolution) and improved bass integration/response (I have two subs). The relay clicking is indeed louder then the 9.8 but fortunately I am using the 80.2 for Blue Ray movie watching only in my dedicated HT, no satellite TV. I would not be pleased with the clicking if I had it in my Direct TV system.

Do you notice any difference in the analog section, such as from a turntable?
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post #1279 of 3832 Old 01-01-2011, 09:25 AM
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Do you notice any difference in the analog section, such as from a turntable?

Sorry buddy...I only use the 80.2 for Blue Ray Movies via HDMI.
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post #1280 of 3832 Old 01-01-2011, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by alanl715 View Post

It seems as though the 'clicking' issue has been discussed ad nauseum.

Your battery operated wall clock clicks too...have u thrown it away yet ? ...

My several clocks that would click are for display only and are silent.

I follow threads like this for products whose functions I am interested in. Also to get a feel for manufacturer's support, problem identification and resolution.

While I have long been in the market for a pre-pro I will never buy a product that chronically clicks and this is why I am ruling out an 80.2.

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post #1281 of 3832 Old 01-01-2011, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

The Spears BluRay that came with my Oppo would be a good 1st cut at the video. I have a kuro 151 and I did the full calibration with stuff at the controlcal site. However it all depends on the tv. The Spears blu ray has a lot of tests that can help you see what is the status of your set. Digital video. Essentials is also use full.

Thanks for that, I used video essentials in the past. Maybe I'll see if I can rent a newer version from Netfix.

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post #1282 of 3832 Old 01-01-2011, 09:58 PM
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My battery operated wall clocks are from Marantz !!! heh, heh !
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post #1283 of 3832 Old 01-01-2011, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanl715 View Post

It seems as though the 'clicking' issue has been discussed ad nauseum.
I feel whatever wheezes, burps, hiccups, or passing gas noise emanating from any of the .1 OR .2 pre/pros and/or receivers is a non-issue compared to what these products bring to the table.
I do not believe there has been a mention by any Forum members that they have requested a refund and/or exchange because they let a leetle clicking noise overshadow the benefits of these fine pieces
.
Your battery operated wall clock clicks too...have u thrown it away yet ?

Just purchase one and ENJOY as all the others AVSF ladies and gents have !!!

Your kidding right? I have seen mentions before of people exchanging there 80.1 or 80.2 for another unit as it was deemed defective. I my-self sold my 80.1 since the relay clicks were too much when watching DirecTv. I now have a Denon 4311 being used as a pre-pro and guess what, NO CLICKS.

Right now I am satisfied not looking for the last word in SQ as long as I have something that works as it should. I can't understand how it is acceptable that the 80.1 and supposedly 80.2 can have much louder relay clicks than there predecessors in the 9.8 and 9.9 which were much quieter and for me at least acceptable.

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post #1284 of 3832 Old 01-02-2011, 10:59 AM
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No MJA, I am not kidding...haven't found those .1 for .2 posts, but I believe u. I just have not read any.
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post #1285 of 3832 Old 01-02-2011, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james138 View Post

Alright guys just picked up my new 80.2 yesterday and I'm looking forward to setting it up, although that won't happen for another couple weeks. I'm hoping to hear a pretty big sonic leap forward from my 5 year old Sony 5ES that I used as a pre/pro. Anyways I'm looking for some cable recommendation. I need new 6ft XLR cables and I was thinking about monoprice, does anybody know of any other budget cables I could check out?

Also I'm guessing I'll need to recalibrate my TV set now, what (other than a professional!) should I use to calibrate it? What calibration disc do people use now?

I am a big fan of the XLR Interconnects from www.bettercables.com. I first bought a 10 meter set for my side/back surrounds after considerable reserach. I had rejected some other bargain priced cables because of sonic issues. They are especially good for long runs because of their extremely low capacitance. I thought they sounded better than a 2 meter pair of pricey Cardas XLR's I had been using. So, I have replaced everything in my system with the bettercables.com stuf with excellent results.
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post #1286 of 3832 Old 01-02-2011, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Fitz is extremely helpful and knowledgeable but with this clicking issue he is under the false impression that it is all user error. It seems to be a issue with the compatibility with DirecTv and Fitz doesn't use that service. There could also be other things that get the clicking going but DirecTv was the problem for me.

For the umteenth time some of us have bad clicking problems and some of us don't, it's definitely not overblown if your the one living with these issues.

Sorry to be such a curmudgeon. Yes, I do not have Direct TV, and it seems to be a major source of the clicking issues. I have none with my Comcast cable service. The problem is that we do not know exactly how the cable or satellite service is sending out their signal, how that varies with program material - commercials, etc. - and how that maps to the Integra's Listening Mode Presets.

In any case, here is what has been successful for me in curing the clicks via Comcast. We have 6 Input Sources on the setup menu for the Listening Mode Presets for CBL/SAT - (1.)Analog/PCM, (2.) Mono/MPX Source, (3.) 2Ch Source, (4.) DolbyD/D Plus/True HD, (5.) DTS/ES/HD, and (6.) Other Multich Source.

For CBL/SAT, I was able to set all of these Input Sources to Dolby PL2x, except #2 Mono/MPX. If you prefer something other than Dolby PL2X, that might work just as well. But, note that the Mono/MPX Source Type cannot be set to a Mch listening mode that is consistent with all the others. Also, note that for other inputs, like Blu-ray, I use a completely different pattern of Listening Mode Presets appropriate to that input.

Apparently, Comcast transmits nothing in mono on hi def channels, so the listening mode never changes from Dolby PL 2X and there are no clicks, even during a stereo commercial. If I were to change the preset for the 2ch Source type to anything other than Dolby PL2X, I will get clicking. Typically, this involves commercials, which often appear to be 2 Ch vs. normal program material which is in one of the Mch source formats - I do not know which, but it does not matter.

So, if your Listening Mode Presets are set up similar to mine, a possible theory as to why Direct TV is affected might be that pesky Input Source #2 - Mono/MPX. Perhaps Direct TV transmits commercials in mono rather than stereo, unlike Comcast. That's the best theory I can come up with to explain why Direct TV or other services might be different from my experience with Comcast.
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post #1287 of 3832 Old 01-02-2011, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Your kidding right? I have seen mentions before of people exchanging there 80.1 or 80.2 for another unit as it was deemed defective. I my-self sold my 80.1 since the relay clicks were too much when watching DirecTv. I now have a Denon 4311 being used as a pre-pro and guess what, NO CLICKS.

Right now I am satisfied not looking for the last word in SQ as long as I have something that works as it should. I can't understand how it is acceptable that the 80.1 and supposedly 80.2 can have much louder relay clicks than there predecessors in the 9.8 and 9.9 which were much quieter and for me at least acceptable.

the relays on my 80.2 are DEFINITELY louder than on my 9.8 that it replaced-no question about it. I would guess by a factor of 2. I could not hear the 9.8 relays unless I was near the unit(my sitting area is 16 feet away, and the Integra is behind my TV and front speakers).

as I am doing 30 second skips through commercials on my Dish DVR's, it can be maddening-then at other times, I hear nothing(it's been widely researched that the relay clicks depend on the input material and how the listening fields are set up).

I fully agree there is absolutely NO excuse for this. Integra is a leading edge company with their products-there must be an alternate design because there is no other pre/pro I have ever heard that does this, and I've auditioned plenty.

BUT, there is no way, no way I would trade the Integra 80.2 for anything else below the $6000 range.
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post #1288 of 3832 Old 01-02-2011, 05:03 PM
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Direct tv may subject to dropouts which increase the clicking.
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post #1289 of 3832 Old 01-02-2011, 07:44 PM
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I agree with JM. The clicks come at transitions in the signal like commercials, or with a shaky signal. Xbox games occasionally do the same.

All of this said, this is going to be a matter of personal tolerance and I hope we can end the click-haters part of the thread soon. Some of us will put up with it, like me, others will choose to buy something else, and let's get on with our lives. I'd love to see more discussion about what the unit does well- which aside from clicking on signal changes, is virtually everything!

Andy
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post #1290 of 3832 Old 01-02-2011, 08:16 PM
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I was able to demo the Integra line today, especially to listen for the "relay clicking" noises that so many are discouraged about. I wanted to hear the "clicks" for myself as I have been paralyzed on purchasing the 80.2 worried that the clicks would be too loud and distracting.

The dealer did not have an active 80.2, so I was able to demo a DTR-70.2 instead.

I had the dealer change channels on the Comcast Cable Box, and yes, there was audible relay clicking, but I was shocked (based on some posts here) at how little the noise was. He and I just looked at one another saying.. This is it? This is what there is such heavy complaining about?

To me, it just doesn't seem to be a big deal as some are making this out to be. I could hear it yes.. but who cares.. it wasn't annoying or distracting, it was just a little click, while changing channels no less.

I recommend that everyone who is thinking of purchasing the 80.2, don't let the relay clicking get in the way of the purchase, it's just not that big a deal. I am not going to eliminate the 80.2 from my wish list based on the relay clicking I heard today.

FAR
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