The Official Integra DHC-80.2 Pre/Pro Thread - Page 51 - AVS Forum
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post #1501 of 3830 Old 01-19-2011, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post
Sure in the speaker configuration menu one can set xover frequencies for each set of speakers as well the center.
Yeah I know that but what I want to know is after setting the seaker size can you run audyssey and have it keep that speaker size. For instance, it sets my fronts to small and I want to run it with my fronts set to large. Each time I set them to large it re-sets them to small when I run it.
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post #1502 of 3830 Old 01-19-2011, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post
Yeah I know that but what I want to know is after setting the seaker size can you run audyssey and have it keep that speaker size.
No. Audyssey ignores all settings when it measures and calculates settings.

Quote:
For instance, it sets my fronts to small and I want to run it with my fronts set to large. Each time I set them to large it re-sets them to small when I run it.
Do not do that. If Audyssey sets your speakers as "small," it is because they do not have extended LF and, therefore, does not apply any EQ below the frequency it sets. If you go in and set them to "large," they will be attempting to reproduce frequencies better handled by the sub and they will be doing so without the benefit of any EQ in that range.

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post #1503 of 3830 Old 01-19-2011, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep

Yeah I know that but what I want to know is after setting the seaker size can you run audyssey and have it keep that speaker size. For instance, it sets my fronts to small and I want to run it with my fronts set to large. Each time I set them to large it re-sets them to small when I run it.
If it set them to small then your speakers have a substantial roll off and Audyssey is choosing to use your sub for the region in which your fronts have low frequency issues. The only way to avoid that would be to turn off your sub(s).
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post #1504 of 3830 Old 01-19-2011, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallnick View Post

any one using a Mac to stream audio to the 80.2?

what is needed? Windows?

You just need to install media server software on your mac and a network connection...I'm using Twonky on mine, but there are other software options.

http://www.twonky.com/
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post #1505 of 3830 Old 01-20-2011, 08:00 AM
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I apologize if this has been covered, but I could not find anything on the subject. I have the DHC-80.2 with the latest firmware. It has been installed for about 2 months without an issue. Today I was watching a movie and it randomly changed to another HDMI input. Now it is completely frozen, will not respond to any commands including the master reset (VCR/DVR + Standby), I have unplugged and let it sit for an hour only to have it power back up in the same frozen state. It is passing the picture and sound for that input without issue, but that is all; completely frozen; will not respond to any button push commands. Any help would be appreciated.
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post #1506 of 3830 Old 01-20-2011, 08:08 AM
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post #1507 of 3830 Old 01-20-2011, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcb2122 View Post

I apologize if this has been covered, but I could not find anything on the subject. I have the DHC-80.2 with the latest firmware. It has been installed for about 2 months without an issue. Today I was watching a movie and it randomly changed to another HDMI input. Now it is completely frozen, will not respond to any commands including the master reset (VCR/DVR + Standby), I have unplugged and let it sit for an hour only to have it power back up in the same frozen state. It is passing the picture and sound for that input without issue, but that is all; completely frozen; will not respond to any button push commands. Any help would be appreciated.

After you call Integra ,please let us know how this is resolved.

Thanks!

Joel
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post #1508 of 3830 Old 01-20-2011, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post


After you call Integra ,please let us know how this is resolved.

Thanks!

Joel

They did not have a solution and claimed this was first for him, as any thing suggested by them could not be performed because it was completely frozen. He suspected the processor went bad. After first writing this, the unit "went crazy" trying to switch inputs back and forth, volume going up and down (during this it continued to not respond to any inputs), then it just died and won't power back on. Integra is overnighting an advanced replacement today, which was pretty good of them as I suspect the overnight charge on this unit is a pretty pricey.
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post #1509 of 3830 Old 01-20-2011, 09:52 AM
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Hey everyone quick question,

My DHC 80.2 should arrive next week. I am currently running my speakers and subs through 4 Behringer ep4000 pro amps. At the moment I am using rca-->1/4 connectors from my Pioneer 1018 to the amps. I adjusted the attenuators to get rid of buzzing. Once the Integra arrives and I hook it up with XLR connectors what should I do with the attenuators on the amps? Do I max them out? Do I use them as volume controls so my trim levels on the pre amp are around +/-3?


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post #1510 of 3830 Old 01-20-2011, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forin View Post

Hey everyone quick question,

My DHC 80.2 should arrive next week. I am currently running my speakers and subs through 4 Behringer ep4000 pro amps. At the moment I am using rca-->1/4 connectors from my Pioneer 1018 to the amps. I adjusted the attenuators to get rid of buzzing. Once the Integra arrives and I hook it up with XLR connectors what should I do with the attenuators on the amps? Do I max them out? Do I use them as volume controls so my trim levels on the pre amp are around +/-3?


Forin

Gain controls on the amp channels? I'd set them midway and do a one-measurement Audyssey setup, look at the 80.2 channel trims and see if they are comfortably within their min/max range. (I would not necessarily aim for +/- 3dB ... 5, 6, 7 or 8 is fine.) If so, redo the Audyssey setup with all eight measurements and you are done. If the trims are close to maxed out, tweak the amp gains as needed and do another one measurement Audyssey setup. Proceed according to the branching I mentioned.

Jeff
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post #1511 of 3830 Old 01-20-2011, 12:01 PM
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Thanks for the information Pepar!
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post #1512 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 12:49 PM
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I have an update on the startup pop problem I've been having with my Integra 80.2 / Proceed AMP5 combination. I have them connected with balanced cables.

To recap, I get loud pop through all channels when the 80.2 finished starting up, you hear a relay click, and then a loud pop through the speakers. This is not an amp startup, starting and stopping the amp doesn't create pops. Also, for many audio modes, when you end the setup menu, and then exit you also get a pop.

Today I was finally able to track down another amp (an old receiver) to test the 80.2 with another amp. Here are the results of today's tests.

1) Hooked up an old receiver to the RCA outs for L and R. No pops, dead silent
2) Hooked up my amp with the RCA (was using balanced) and no pops, dead silent
3) Found a neighbor with some pro gear. Hooked it up to my amp via balanced inputs. No pops

Evidently the 80.2 lets something out of the balanced outputs that my Proceed amp doesn't like. I now have it connected with the unbalanced inputs and I have no pops. But this kind of sucks because I specifically chose the 80.2 over the 40.2 to get the balanced connections.

I've searched the web extensively and haven't found any posts on amps popping over balanced but not unbalanced.

With my old setup I had balanced connections for right center and left but not the surrounds ( the Proceed AVP didn't have balanced for the surrounds). No pops.

Anyone ever experience this or hear of it?

The dealer has offered to refund my purchase but I don't know what else I'd buy. Should I switch to a 40.2 and get the difference back in cash? He will sell me an Anthem at cost for my trouble but it's a lot more money.
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post #1513 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 01:30 PM
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I think I would stick with the 80.2 becuase of the xt32 and use unbalanced as long as the runs are short and there is no hum.

After that I might play with different xlr cables or converters to real xlr to see if that makes a difference perhaps just one as an experiment. If it does than you will know and then you might also contact the amp mfg to see if they have a fix.

Joel
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post #1514 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Jensen View Post

I have an update on the startup pop problem I've been having with my Integra 80.2 / Proceed AMP5 combination. I have them connected with balanced cables.

To recap, I get loud pop through all channels when the 80.2 finished starting up, you hear a relay click, and then a loud pop through the speakers. This is not an amp startup, starting and stopping the amp doesn't create pops. Also, for many audio modes, when you end the setup menu, and then exit you also get a pop.

Today I was finally able to track down another amp (an old receiver) to test the 80.2 with another amp. Here are the results of today's tests.

1) Hooked up an old receiver to the RCA outs for L and R. No pops, dead silent
2) Hooked up my amp with the RCA (was using balanced) and no pops, dead silent
3) Found a neighbor with some pro gear. Hooked it up to my amp via balanced inputs. No pops

Evidently the 80.2 lets something out of the balanced outputs that my Proceed amp doesn't like. I now have it connected with the unbalanced inputs and I have no pops. But this kind of sucks because I specifically chose the 80.2 over the 40.2 to get the balanced connections.

I've searched the web extensively and haven't found any posts on amps popping over balanced but not unbalanced.

With my old setup I had balanced connections for right center and left but not the surrounds ( the Proceed AVP didn't have balanced for the surrounds). No pops.

Anyone ever experience this or hear of it?

The dealer has offered to refund my purchase but I don't know what else I'd buy. Should I switch to a 40.2 and get the difference back in cash? He will sell me an Anthem at cost for my trouble but it's a lot more money.

Thanks for the update, but it seems "with wisdom comes sorrow". The unfortunate facts of life are you need unbalanced or you need a new amp. I would not mess around with the suggestion of a quasi to true balanced device, even though this problem may possibly be related to the fact that the Integra's output is not truly balanced. That could only cause sonic degradation or loss of transparency if inserted into the signal path.

If your amp is not too far from the Integra, I doubt that the use of unbalanced cables is causing anything in the way of a sonic deficit. It's certainly not worth swapping the Integra for some other prepro, which ain't gonna match it for features or price/performance. It's really only with longer lengths that balanced cables start to really shine. But, if you really gotta have XLR's, get a new amp. It's likely your Proceed could be improved upon at this point.
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post #1515 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 02:55 PM
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Is Integra 80.2 fully balanced ?

If not .. Why use XLR ?
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post #1516 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by swedmaveric View Post

Is Integra 80.2 fully balanced ?

If not .. Why use XLR ?

I assumed when I bought it that it was fully balanced. Not sure why anyone would put XLR connectors on and not have fully balanced designs. Guess I assumed wrong...joe
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post #1517 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Jensen View Post

I assumed when I bought it that it was fully balanced. Not sure why anyone would put XLR connectors on and not have fully balanced designs. Guess I assumed wrong...joe


The last few posts leave me wondering...

Can it be definitively stated that the DHC 80.2 is not balanced? Can a device like this somehow be balanced but not fully balanced? I guess I've somehow overlooked the discussion on that issue.

Does anyone have additional info pertaining to this matter?


Tom

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post #1518 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Jensen View Post

I assumed when I bought it that it was fully balanced. Not sure why anyone would put XLR connectors on and not have fully balanced designs. Guess I assumed wrong...joe

Becourse it looks good ..

I ask becourse I read earlier in this thread or another.. that it is not. But I can not find that post again. And last post makes me wondering.

I'm waiting for my New 80.2 and would like to know if there is any reason to use XLR to my Emotiva XPA-2 or not.

I will go from Denon AVR-A100 to Integra 80.2 and has not been using XLR
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post #1519 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post


The last few posts leave me wondering...

Can it be definitively stated that the DHC 80.2 is not balanced? Can a device like this somehow be balanced but not fully balanced? I guess I've somehow overlooked the discussion on that issue.

Does anyone have additional info pertaining to this matter?

Tom

Search true balanced design in Avs. The integra/onkyo circuit does not have the double symmetry required for true balanced design. It does provide xlr outputs in parallel with the RCA for compatibilty with external devices.

For example see below :

"Does anyone know if the TGIII is a true balanced design(offering true differential outputs)or are the Balanced outputs implemented by inverting one side of a single-ended signal path(not balanced)? I'm curious about this, as I purchased 5 balanced XLR cables, to take advantage of these outputs. I hope that I didn't throw my money away buying these cables.

SV"

That said it is not a big deal
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post #1520 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 04:05 PM
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Some confusion here it seems about balanced lines. A transformer can turn a single-ended, i.e. unbalanced circuit to a balanced one. The advantages of balanced lines is the capability to use long lines. Also noise is rejected from EMI and RF. At short distances there is NO advantage/benefit from balanced lines.

A line/circuit can be balanced without the upstream circuits being natively balanced. And I'm not sure how much gear is designed that way, but I've never seen any data showing it is superior to simply using a transformer.

Jeff
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post #1521 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 04:08 PM
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There are two issues.

Is it a truly balanced output? I would guess "yes." However, that can be accomplished with an SE-to-Bal stage on the output or with a DAC that provided balanced outputs. This would give you all the advantages of balanced interconnections.

Is the device fully balanced internally? That is doubtful because (1) there is no reason to have duplicate non-inverted and inverted digital paths (and there are good reasons not to) and (2) it is very expensive.

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post #1522 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 04:19 PM
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All true but the way in which balanced output is implemented from a non balanced circuit may or may not be leading to Joe's pops with interactions from his Proceed amps.

There are numerous discussions of true differential outputs versus inversion in Avs and other audio threads. I quoted one part of one thread earlier.

Again I do not think this is really important in most cases. It might be a factor in the pop (not click) issue.
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post #1523 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 04:28 PM
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Kal, ATI amps are advertised as true balanced or more precisely as True Balanced.

Jim, there is no way a balanced line, "true" or not, could cause popping.

Jeff
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post #1524 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Kal, ATI amps are advertised as true balanced or more precisely as True Balanced.

Jim, there is no way a balanced line could cause popping.

Jeff

See Joe's results posted earlier.
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post #1525 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Jensen View Post

I have an update on the startup pop problem I've been having with my Integra 80.2 / Proceed AMP5 combination. I have them connected with balanced cables.

To recap, I get loud pop through all channels when the 80.2 finished starting up, you hear a relay click, and then a loud pop through the speakers. This is not an amp startup, starting and stopping the amp doesn't create pops. Also, for many audio modes, when you end the setup menu, and then exit you also get a pop.

Today I was finally able to track down another amp (an old receiver) to test the 80.2 with another amp. Here are the results of today's tests.

1) Hooked up an old receiver to the RCA outs for L and R. No pops, dead silent
2) Hooked up my amp with the RCA (was using balanced) and no pops, dead silent
3) Found a neighbor with some pro gear. Hooked it up to my amp via balanced inputs. No pops

Evidently the 80.2 lets something out of the balanced outputs that my Proceed amp doesn't like. I now have it connected with the unbalanced inputs and I have no pops. But this kind of sucks because I specifically chose the 80.2 over the 40.2 to get the balanced connections.

I've searched the web extensively and haven't found any posts on amps popping over balanced but not unbalanced.

With my old setup I had balanced connections for right center and left but not the surrounds ( the Proceed AVP didn't have balanced for the surrounds). No pops.

Anyone ever experience this or hear of it?

The dealer has offered to refund my purchase but I don't know what else I'd buy. Should I switch to a 40.2 and get the difference back in cash? He will sell me an Anthem at cost for my trouble but it's a lot more money.

This is the post that started the discussion about balanced outputs.
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post #1526 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 04:37 PM
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Whatever it is, it is not from the circuits being balanced or the type of circuitry before the balanced outs.
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post #1527 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 05:26 PM
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Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some help resolving a few problems that I'm having setting up my new Integra DHC 80.2 processor.

I recently purchased the Integra DHC-80.2 processor to replace an Integra DHC-9.9 and I'm having a couple of issues setting up the DHC-80.2 with my HTPC that I didn't have with 9.9. I simply unplugged components from the 9.9 and then plugged them in to the 80.2.

I'm having the following problems.

The first problem is, when the HTPC is starting up, the Integra looses the video signal just after the Starting Windows screen that shows the 4 colored shapes flying in has finished. In order to restore the signal, I press the setup button on the Integra's remote, let the setup menu open and then exit the setup menu. Likewise if I switch the input source to BD (or other) then back to PC it restores the signal. The HTPC is connected via DVI out to HDMI in on the processor.

The second problem I have is, when playing 2 channel pcm audio, the Integra looses and gains the audio signal sporadically. As it does this the processor makes a clicking sound as it switches between having a signal and no signal. The HTPC is connected via optical s/pdif to the processor.

My setup consists of the following components:
-Integra DHC 80.2 with current firmware.
-HTPC is running Windows 7 Home Premium edition.
-Soundblaster THX Certified X-Fi Extreme Gamer soundcard with current drivers installed.
-Nvidia GeForce 9500 GT graphics card with current drivers installed.
-Foobar2000 or XBMC applications for playing audio. Both apps are most current version. Using WASAPI via s/pdif for audio output.
-Epson PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080 projector connected via HDMI.
-Emotiva XPA-2 and XPA-5 amplifiers connected via XLR.
-Pace cable/DVR connected via HDMI.
-Pioneer Bluray connected via HDMI.
-9 speakers and 2 powered subs.

Also, I tried connecting my laptop computer in place of the HTPC and have the same issues.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Daren
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post #1528 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 06:04 PM
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I play foobar with no problems. I have my dvi output of my windows 7 computer going directly to my kuro 151 with a dvi to hdmi cable

The SPIDF optical goes to integra cd input
I have an xmeridien audio card.

I did have issues with my pc and integra interacting well thus the approach I described above.

You might put your audio on a separate integra channel like cd and see if that helps.

On the video be sure your video card is set output HDTV 1080.
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post #1529 of 3830 Old 01-22-2011, 10:20 PM
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Just wanted to offer lil feedback. I am loving the 80.2. XT32 is sweet, definite upgrade for me from XT. Love the new remote and menus. No problems.

Quick question, can I plug a harddrive in the front usb port and play digital movie files? I tried last night and no go. I will read the manual more thoroughly, but I was just wondering.
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post #1530 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

There are two issues.

Is it a truly balanced output? I would guess "yes." However, that can be accomplished with an SE-to-Bal stage on the output or with a DAC that provided balanced outputs. This would give you all the advantages of balanced interconnections.

Is the device fully balanced internally? That is doubtful because (1) there is no reason to have duplicate non-inverted and inverted digital paths (and there are good reasons not to) and (2) it is very expensive.


The 5508 uses Burr-Brown PCM1795 DACs. From what I can read from the spec sheet this is a balanced design DAC: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1795.pdf

Depending on the implementation from Onkyo/Integra I can not se why they have taken the output from a balanced DAC and convert it to SE and then use a SE to Bal stage to the XLR. Anyone with circuit design competence that have opened their 5508 (or 5507 that have the same DACs) end looked into this?

From want I see from the spec the DACs are (or at least can be) handling the volume control and then I can not see any reason for Onkyo/Integra to go Single ended on the output side from DAC to XLR connection.

For the analog domain (if it is really possible in the Onkyo/Integra to go analog from input to output) the case is probably a single ended design, implementing true balanced analog volume control is expensive.
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