The Official Integra DHC-80.2 Pre/Pro Thread - Page 52 - AVS Forum
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post #1531 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 07:49 AM
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I know audio calibration/set up has been discussed a lot on this thread but what about video calibration? Other that having a professional do it, how did you calibrate your video?

I'm going to have all of my video (cable, PS3, Xbox 360, and Apple TV) run through the 80.2.

My knowledge of home theater calibration is outdated by like 6 years. That being said do I just grab a copy of DVE or the new WOW and go to town?

What settings should I use (or what did you use) in the Picture Adjust menu in the 80.2? I have no idea what settings I should use? Mosquito NR? Random NR? Huh?

And then as far as the Brightness, Contrast, etc settings, do I adjust them in the 80.2 menu or the tv sets menu? Or both? Any advice or even links to how to articles would be greatly appreciated. For the record I have a 4 year old Samsung hls6187w dlp set with a brand new bulb on the way.

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post #1532 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Jensen View Post

The dealer has offered to refund my purchase but I don't know what else I'd buy. Should I switch to a 40.2 and get the difference back in cash? He will sell me an Anthem at cost for my trouble but it's a lot more money.

Why can't he issue another 80.2 to test with, as it seem to be a unit problem?
My hookup is similar but I have no problem at all.
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post #1533 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

Just wanted to offer lil feedback. I am loving the 80.2. XT32 is sweet, definite upgrade for me from XT. Love the new remote and menus. No problems.

Quick question, can I plug a harddrive in the front usb port and play digital movie files? I tried last night and no go. I will read the manual more thoroughly, but I was just wondering.

No. The 80.2 is not a digital video decoder. It can do lots of nice things to video on the way from some other component to your display, but it's not designed to decode raw digital video files.

Andy
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post #1534 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james138 View Post

I know audio calibration/set up has been discussed a lot on this thread but what about video calibration? Other that having a professional do it, how did you calibrate your video?

I'm going to have all of my video (cable, PS3, Xbox 360, and Apple TV) run through the 80.2.

My knowledge of home theater calibration is outdated by like 6 years. That being said do I just grab a copy of DVE or the new WOW and go to town?

What settings should I use (or what did you use) in the Picture Adjust menu in the 80.2? I have no idea what settings I should use? Mosquito NR? Random NR? Huh?

And then as far as the Brightness, Contrast, etc settings, do I adjust them in the 80.2 menu or the tv sets menu? Or both? Any advice or even links to how to articles would be greatly appreciated. For the record I have a 4 year old Samsung hls6187w dlp set with a brand new bulb on the way.

The smart move here is to calibrate your tv in the traditional way as best you can. Then, if there are minor improvements to make with the integra, add them on there. For example, I was able to improve color balance quite a bit because the imtegra allows you to adjust contrast and brightness individually for all 3 colors. Before making this adjustment the test pattern was clearly showing different color channels behaving differently onscreen at the levels where they were supposed to be max'd or min'd, and afterwards I feel the linearity is much better on my projector.

I wouldn't worry too much about the nr settings, those might help a little with overly compressed digital sources but not as a general rule.

Andy
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post #1535 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 10:16 AM
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I lose control of my ipod using the 80.2 remote once I hit the home button and change audio settings. To get control back I need to switch inputs, or cycle through the usb/net inputs. Then I get control back.
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post #1536 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

I lose control of my ipod using the 80.2 remote once I hit the home button and change audio settings. To get control back I need to switch inputs, or cycle through the usb/net inputs. Then I get control back.

Strange. You might try static settings for both iPod and 80.2. I also have changed the port on the AVR to 60129 for use with oremote
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post #1537 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitohobe View Post


Why can't he issue another 80.2 to test with, as it seem to be a unit problem?
My hookup is similar but I have no problem at all.

The dealer already replaced my first 80.2. Both the original and replacement have the same modes for popping. Startup, when the audio stream switches in and out of DD for certain listening modes, and then exiting the menu.
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post #1538 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Jensen View Post

......I've searched the web extensively and haven't found any posts on amps popping over balanced but not unbalanced.

With my old setup I had balanced connections for right center and left but not the surrounds ( the Proceed AVP didn't have balanced for the surrounds). No pops.

Anyone ever experience this or hear of it?

I seem to recall something similar back when I had the Integra 9.8, it didn't happen to me but I recall it being discussed in that thread. IIRC, it was exclusive to a specific type of amp.

I've seen where some pre-amps have the ability to switch polarity on the XLR outputs, I'm not sure what's that for specifically, but perhaps it indicates there's non conforming equipment out there? Might be something to look for...

One other long shot might be to try grounding the chassis together with a simple wire, use the phono ground of the 80.2 and any screw on the Proceed's chassis...

If it were me though, I'd just switch to RCA and forget about it.
No reason not to, and if the 40.2 doesn't have XT32 you'd loose out on what I think is the 80.2's best feature.
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post #1539 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 01:28 PM
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Joe, are your signal runs long? If not, then you do not need balanced lines.

Jeff
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Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

Strange. You might try static settings for both iPod and 80.2. I also have changed the port on the AVR to 60129 for use with oremote

I don't follow you.
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post #1541 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 01:41 PM
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I do not have long runs and I understand that I do not need XLR. Having said that, it's my understanding that even on short runs, there is opportunity for RF noise with RCA. The audio rack is jammed with cables, power, and signal. I'm not getting any noise so I'm ok, but I think with balanced I get less. Is this not true?
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I don't follow you.

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post #1543 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewsi View Post

The smart move here is to calibrate your tv in the traditional way as best you can. Then, if there are minor improvements to make with the integra, add them on there. For example, I was able to improve color balance quite a bit because the imtegra allows you to adjust contrast and brightness individually for all 3 colors. Before making this adjustment the test pattern was clearly showing different color channels behaving differently onscreen at the levels where they were supposed to be max'd or min'd, and afterwards I feel the linearity is much better on my projector.

Hi Andy,

I'll be the first to admit that I know very little about video calibration. Yes, I've made minor adjustments to Contrast and Brightness with the help of a test pattern. However, with other adjustments, such as color balance, I get a little nervous. Did you use test equipment to make your adjustments to color balance?

Here is an excerpt from a professional review by Kris Deering of an earlier model with similar ISF video calibration features that explains the basis of my nervousness.

Quote:


Someone with the right test tools can dial in the gray scale and color balance using the high and low controls for each color (labeled Brightness and Contrast here). But you can only make these kinds of adjustments accurately if you use professional test equipment, which is expensive. You also need the knowledge to use the equipment properly. If you don’t have the right tools and knowledge, I’d highly recommend that you leave these picture controls alone. You could do more harm than good to your picture.

Larry
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post #1544 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Jensen View Post

I do not have long runs and I understand that I do not need XLR. Having said that, it's my understanding that even on short runs, there is opportunity for RF noise with RCA. The audio rack is jammed with cables, power, and signal. I'm not getting any noise so I'm ok, but I think with balanced I get less. Is this not true?

That stuff isn't radiating RF levels that will induce noise in short unbalanced lines.

Jeff
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post #1545 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewsi View Post


The smart move here is to calibrate your tv in the traditional way as best you can. Then, if there are minor improvements to make with the integra, add them on there. For example, I was able to improve color balance quite a bit because the imtegra allows you to adjust contrast and brightness individually for all 3 colors. Before making this adjustment the test pattern was clearly showing different color channels behaving differently onscreen at the levels where they were supposed to be max'd or min'd, and afterwards I feel the linearity is much better on my projector.

I wouldn't worry too much about the nr settings, those might help a little with overly compressed digital sources but not as a general rule.

Thanks for the input, so I should not adjust any of the settings on my Integra before I adjust the settings on my set? Did you use DVE?

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post #1546 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post


I don't follow you.


If never had an Ethernet connection , is your iPod attached by USB or port?

I am sorry I probably have misunderstood what you were doing with your iPod

I use it as a remote for the integra via wifi.

So here are some suggestions for using the iPod for music etc. There are probably others on this thread who know this area better than I
If USB, do you have OS 4.2 for the iPod and the latest firmware for the AVR. Perhaps it would do better attached to the other USB port.?

Perhaps a bug. Write integra
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post #1547 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 03:18 PM
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Can I just say that 80.2 seems to do a great job with video! The video from my Comcast DVR looks really nice, the football games over the last couple weeks seemed to have almost a film like quality to them. Maybe it's just a placebo effect or maybe it's them using better cameras for the playoffs, I'm giving credit to the 80.2.

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post #1548 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post


Hi Andy,

I'll be the first to admit that I know very little about video calibration. Yes, I've made minor adjustments to Contrast and Brightness with the help of a test pattern. However, with other adjustments, such as color balance, I get a little nervous. Did you use test equipment to make your adjustments to color balance?

Here is an excerpt from a professional review by Kris Deering of an earlier model with similar ISF video calibration features that explains the basis of my nervousness.

Larry

I wouldn't think to contradict the wisdom of the pros, but the bt.709 test patterns disc image that I downloaded from this forum included patterns that made it possible to see how each color's brightness and contrast behaved at the 16-235 levels, and with minor adjustments I feel I had an improved picture overall without doing anything crazy that would overdrive or damage the set- a Runco 991 Ultra (basically, a nec xg110) that's over 12 years old at this point. If anything, I was reducing the high end contrast on green and raising it only very slightly on blue.

Take that for what it's worth... I'm certainly happy to hear if anyone has concrete reasons why these controls should be avoided or what tools are required to actually use them safely, but I don't think minor tweaks are likely to do damage.

Andy
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post #1549 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james138 View Post


Thanks for the input, so I should not adjust any of the settings on my Integra before I adjust the settings on my set? Did you use DVE?

I used DVE as well as the bt709 test patterns disc image I found somewhere on this forum a while back. I always think you're better off using the set's native adjustments to the degree that they will allow you to perfect the picture, and then use external processing for any tangible improvements you can't get to otherwise.

Andy
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post #1550 of 3830 Old 01-23-2011, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewsi View Post

I used DVE as well as the bt709 test patterns disc image I found somewhere on this forum a while back. I always think you're better off using the set's native adjustments to the degree that they will allow you to perfect the picture, and then use external processing for any tangible improvements you can't get to otherwise.

I hired an ISF cerified pro to calibrate my new Sony and he checked the settings on the 80.2 and the Oppo DVD player first to make sure they were set for no video manipuation before calibrating the TV.
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post #1551 of 3830 Old 01-24-2011, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

If never had an Ethernet connection , is your iPod attached by USB or port?

I am sorry I probably have misunderstood what you were doing with your iPod

I use it as a remote for the integra via wifi.

So here are some suggestions for using the iPod for music etc. There are probably others on this thread who know this area better than I
If USB, do you have OS 4.2 for the iPod and the latest firmware for the AVR. Perhaps it would do better attached to the other USB port.?

Perhaps a bug. Write integra

The ipod is connected by usb to the front usb port. I will try the leatest ipod firmware. I wrote Integra last night. Thnaks.

Also, everyone has relay clicks when hitting audio buttons on the remote....right.
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post #1552 of 3830 Old 01-24-2011, 03:03 AM
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Also....my 2 cents on the clicks. While I would prefer not to have them, it doesn't ever effect the actual content so far, just when switching stuff and hitting buttons on the remore. Once the blu ray is playing all is well. Also, all avr's have relay clicks of some sort, it is just that these are a tad louder. I think it could be related to my use of xlr cables. XLr is a louder signal, so my clicks are maybe a bit louder. I love everything about the avr so far, so it is not something that is a deal breaker since most avr's have some issue or another....pick your poison.
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post #1553 of 3830 Old 01-24-2011, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Jensen View Post

I have an update on the startup pop problem I've been having with my Integra 80.2 / Proceed AMP5 combination. I have them connected with balanced cables.

To recap, I get loud pop through all channels when the 80.2 finished starting up, you hear a relay click, and then a loud pop through the speakers. This is not an amp startup, starting and stopping the amp doesn't create pops. Also, for many audio modes, when you end the setup menu, and then exit you also get a pop.

Today I was finally able to track down another amp (an old receiver) to test the 80.2 with another amp. Here are the results of today's tests.

1) Hooked up an old receiver to the RCA outs for L and R. No pops, dead silent
2) Hooked up my amp with the RCA (was using balanced) and no pops, dead silent
3) Found a neighbor with some pro gear. Hooked it up to my amp via balanced inputs. No pops

Evidently the 80.2 lets something out of the balanced outputs that my Proceed amp doesn't like. I now have it connected with the unbalanced inputs and I have no pops. But this kind of sucks because I specifically chose the 80.2 over the 40.2 to get the balanced connections.

I've searched the web extensively and haven't found any posts on amps popping over balanced but not unbalanced.

With my old setup I had balanced connections for right center and left but not the surrounds ( the Proceed AVP didn't have balanced for the surrounds). No pops.

Anyone ever experience this or hear of it?

The dealer has offered to refund my purchase but I don't know what else I'd buy. Should I switch to a 40.2 and get the difference back in cash? He will sell me an Anthem at cost for my trouble but it's a lot more money.

I figured I would chime in here as I am in the same boat as Joe - for me however, the clicks through my speakers actually got lower and less perceptible when I switched to XLR cables - however they are still there at nearly the exact same times as he is experiencing.

I to have done experimentating and more or less concluded the same thing as Joe - the 80.2 is leaking something that my amp, in my configuration - doesn't like - maybe its the wyred4sound amp...maybe its the PS Audio Power Plant...maybe its the combination of the two....maybe its something else.
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post #1554 of 3830 Old 01-24-2011, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vigga View Post

I figured I would chime in here as I am in the same boat as Joe - for me however, the clicks through my speakers actually got lower and less perceptible when I switched to XLR cables - however they are still there at nearly the exact same times as he is experiencing.

I to have done experimentating and more or less concluded the same thing as Joe - the 80.2 is leaking something that my amp, in my configuration - doesn't like - maybe its the wyred4sound amp...maybe its the PS Audio Power Plant...maybe its the combination of the two....maybe its something else.

I do not think its the Power Plant. I use one also, and my center channel Bryston amp is plugged into it. No pops, other than the occasional relay clicks everyone else has from the Integra itself. But, nothing comes through the speakers when it clicks. But, you can always check on that by plugging straight into the wall. The answer seems to be that a few amps are just prone to pop with the Integra. Most don't.
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post #1555 of 3830 Old 01-24-2011, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewsi View Post
I wouldn't think to contradict the wisdom of the pros, but the bt.709 test patterns disc image that I downloaded from this forum included patterns that made it possible to see how each color's brightness and contrast behaved at the 16-235 levels, and with minor adjustments I feel I had an improved picture overall without doing anything crazy that would overdrive or damage the set- a Runco 991 Ultra (basically, a nec xg110) that's over 12 years old at this point. If anything, I was reducing the high end contrast on green and raising it only very slightly on blue.

Take that for what it's worth... I'm certainly happy to hear if anyone has concrete reasons why these controls should be avoided or what tools are required to actually use them safely, but I don't think minor tweaks are likely to do damage.
did you play with gamma as you did this or were you only looking at the end points?
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post #1556 of 3830 Old 01-24-2011, 09:44 AM
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Since there is some video discussions occurring, I thought I would let everyone know:
The 80.2 does NOT pass YCbCr 4:2:2 correctly - you should use 4:4:4 or RGB.
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post #1557 of 3830 Old 01-24-2011, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vigga View Post
Since there is some video discussions occurring, I thought I would let everyone know:
The 80.2 does NOT pass YCbCr 4:2:2 correctly - you should use 4:4:4 or RGB.
That's odd that it doesn't pass it. Or are you referring to it doing some video processing to 4:2:2?
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post #1558 of 3830 Old 01-24-2011, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by vigga View Post
Since there is some video discussions occurring, I thought I would let everyone know:
The 80.2 does NOT pass YCbCr 4:2:2 correctly - you should use 4:4:4 or RGB.
Wow that's interesting! How did you figure that out (is there a setting somewhere)? I have my 80.2 connected to an oppo 83, JVC RS 25 projector, and Sammy TV. Both the Oppo and RS 25 are on Auto mode for the Color Space configuration and I have had no issues (That I can tell anyway). I think the Oppo in Auto mode will automatically convert to 4:4:4 if the display supports it . Aren't all dvds/BDs encoded in 4:2:0 and then decoded by a player in 4:2:2 anyway?

Another video question since we are on the topic. How can I ensure that the 80.2 does ZERO video conversion or processing? I have the Monitor Out set to through, is that enough? I have not messed with the Picture Adjust settings (all default values, including Custom for Picture Mode) thinking that the Monitor Out set to through overrides everything. Settings like Film Mode, for instance, are already performed by either my PJ or TV so I would rather avoid double-processing. Just to be clear, I have not experienced any anomalies but I would rather make sure that all the video processing is done by my display devices.

Thx.
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post #1559 of 3830 Old 01-24-2011, 10:37 AM
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It does pass it, just not correctly - there is a loss in fine Chroma details - you can see this quite easily if you use the Spears and Munsil test disc Chroma Multiburst or Chroma Plate pattern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
That's odd that it doesn't pass it. Or are you referring to it doing some video processing to 4:2:2?
This occurs whether the unit is set to through or not - it isn't processing, it is a failure to pass all of the chroma and luma information. I have no idea why - could be something in the architecture of the video chip they are using. I know that the new Marantz pre fails 4:4:4, but passes 4:2:2 correctly.
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post #1560 of 3830 Old 01-24-2011, 11:29 AM
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Location: Quintana Roo ... in my mind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vigga View Post
It does pass it, just not correctly - there is a loss in fine Chroma details - you can see this quite easily if you use the Spears and Munsil test disc Chroma Multiburst or Chroma Plate pattern.
Funny you should mention that as I was just catching up on reading Widescreen Review and the issue was with the piece on Spears and Munsil.

Jeff
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