The Official Integra DHC-80.2 Pre/Pro Thread - Page 56 - AVS Forum
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post #1651 of 3830 Old 02-04-2011, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CycloneMike View Post
I agree - but I can still wish!

What I would really like is the ability with 5.1 input, with either HDMI or Analog (either one would be fine), to direct the two surround channels to my rear speakers instead of my surround speakers.

I can do it with a 7.1 analog input by connecting the surround inputs to the rear input connectors, but I would like to have the room correction provided (cake and eat it to...).

If they would allow, via software, to pick the surround channel output for a 5.1 input on HDMI, then that would also work and be the best solution.

I am considering buying a couple of switchers that would allow me to do that with my interconnects between the pre-amp and the amp, but that will then apply the room correction for the surrounds to the back channels.

The problem is I like my Paradigm ADP speakers for surrounds for movies, but I prefer my rear direct speakers for surround music.

Maybe I need to buy a pair of surrounds that can switch between modes.....another option, but to get the best out of the room correction you would need two separate solutions for the two modes, which is not available to my knowleddge.

Oh well, I may as well stop worrying about it and just enjoy the music!
Surround music, at least most of it on SACD, is miked and mixed according to the ITU standard. Google it. If you want music to sound as it did in the control room, the "rear" surrounds should be at 110 degrees relative to front dead center. This is within the angular parameters usually given by Dolby and DTS for movies, also. So, that's where my side surrounds are. My back surrounds are at about 145 degrees.

You are of course entitled to set things up as you please. So, if you prefer an effect over accuracy, that is your decision.

Yes, Audyssey does not support multiple solutions at the moment, so your idea would EQ the back speakers as though they were the side surrounds - a further source of inaccuracy.
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post #1652 of 3830 Old 02-04-2011, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mitohobe

What kind of output do you have from the ATV? Recently I had to hit "Force Digital" on output selection when running Plex on a Mac Mini from the HDMI output.
Alright for whatever the reason 24 hrs later it starts working on it's own! Grrrr

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post #1653 of 3830 Old 02-04-2011, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post
Yes, Audyssey does not support multiple solutions at the moment, so your idea would EQ the back speakers as though they were the side surrounds - a further source of inaccuracy.
With an Audyssey Pro Kit ...

I have a 7.1 system with M&K SS-150 tripole surrounds at 90° and collocated SS-150 rear surrounds configured as monopoles at 180°. And I have an "alternate" set of S-150 (monopole) surrounds -identical to LCR - mounted at 125° (now and soon to move to about 115°). The 5.1 system with identical speakers I use for DVD-A/SACD music while the main configuration I use for everything else.

I manually swap the alternate surrounds for the tripoles. Making it all work is that I did Audyssey Pro calibrations for both sets of speakers, saved them and reload them as I switch speaker configurations.

Admittedly, it is a bit of a pain as I need to use the laptop every time, and I usually have to refresh the key (on Audyssey's website) before I can upload the correction filters. But it does work and work perfectly.

Jeff
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post #1654 of 3830 Old 02-05-2011, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

With an Audyssey Pro Kit ...

I have a 7.1 system with M&K SS-150 tripole surrounds at 90° and collocated SS-150 rear surrounds configured as monopoles at 180°. And I have an "alternate" set of S-150 (monopole) surrounds -identical to LCR - mounted at 125° (now and soon to move to about 115°). The 5.1 system with identical speakers I use for DVD-A/SACD music while the main configuration I use for everything else.

I manually swap the alternate surrounds for the tripoles. Making it all work is that I did Audyssey Pro calibrations for both sets of speakers, saved them and reload them as I switch speaker configurations.

Admittedly, it is a bit of a pain as I need to use the laptop every time, and I usually have to refresh the key (on Audyssey's website) before I can upload the correction filters. But it does work and work perfectly.

Jeff

Yes, of course, you can reload from multiple saved calibrations on your PC with Pro, but that's time consuming and a pain. I would not be surprised to see future versions of Audyssey offer a quick easy way to swap calibrations, even without Pro. But, processors would need some more auxilliary storage for that, possibly a plug in zip drive as on some Blu-ray machines. But, I would not know what to do with it if I had it. One current active calibration is enough for me. Mch music is my acid test. If it's good with music, it's good with movies, TV, etc.
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post #1655 of 3830 Old 02-05-2011, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

For grins I was doing some measuring to check out Audyssey corrections and discovered that the audio put into a left or right speaker for "stereo" is different than the same signal put into the same speaker for "all channel stereo", specifically from the low end up to about 150hz



Any explanations?

As I recall, the analog Multichannel input is not digitized and therefore not processed by Audyssey but the single analog L & R input is digitized and Audyssey can be used for that input.
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post #1656 of 3830 Old 02-05-2011, 08:26 AM
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Guys I have some questions as to what sound fields you recommend. I know this is a matter of preference but I guess I would like to hear some opinions as a starting point.

I listen to a lot of lossless streamed music I wanted to know what you guys recommend as a listening mode for just stereo (plus a sub) and with all 7.1 speakers going.

What about movies? I've read all of the descriptions in the booklet and I can't decipher the difference between any of them. Do I want THX on? Off? Pro Logic IIx? I'm a little lost.

What about the Super Bowl? I'm having a bunch of people over and I wanted to use one of the volume control settings on this thing. Do I use Dolby Volume? Doesn't Audyssey have its own version? What do I have it set too?

Any opinions would be appreciated!

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post #1657 of 3830 Old 02-05-2011, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Yes, of course, you can reload from multiple saved calibrations on your PC with Pro, but that's time consuming and a pain. I would not be surprised to see future versions of Audyssey offer a quick easy way to swap calibrations, even without Pro. But, processors would need some more auxilliary storage for that, possibly a plug in zip drive as on some Blu-ray machines. But, I would not know what to do with it if I had it. One current active calibration is enough for me. Mch music is my acid test. If it's good with music, it's good with movies, TV, etc.

To me, hi-res multichannel music mixes on DVD-A/SACD sound best with five identical monopoles located as per ITU (and a bass-managed .1), while everything else (cinema, live music Blu-rays, CDs) sounds best with the side-mounted surrounds and rear surrounds in the conventional 7.1 layout.

Positionally, the surrounds in the latter "cinema" configuration just sound wrong for DVD-A/SACD. And the radiation pattern of the those surrounds, tripoles in my system, that work best for that content doesn't work anywhere near as well for DVD-A/SACD.

I mostly use the cinema configuration and listen to DVD-A/SACD much less, but I do always swap the surround speakers and load the corresponding measurement data and recalc the filters to upload. and then swap everything back at the end of the session.

Jeff
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post #1658 of 3830 Old 02-05-2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Yes, of course, you can reload from multiple saved calibrations on your PC with Pro, but that's time consuming and a pain. I would not be surprised to see future versions of Audyssey offer a quick easy way to swap calibrations, even without Pro. But, processors would need some more auxilliary storage for that, possibly a plug in zip drive as on some Blu-ray machines.

The only processor I know of that can store and swap multiple calibrations easily is the Wisdom Audio.

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post #1659 of 3830 Old 02-05-2011, 04:35 PM
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Does any have any recommendation setting regarding Dyn EQ and Dyn Volume

I have a seven channel setup..
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post #1660 of 3830 Old 02-05-2011, 07:22 PM
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Does any have any recommendation setting regarding Dyn EQ and Dyn Volume

I have a seven channel setup..

I use both with Tv and only Tv
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post #1661 of 3830 Old 02-06-2011, 01:10 PM
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I like DynamicEQ and use it with Blu-rays. I find it helps with dialog if listening at more reasonable levels - if you listen really loud it does little. Never use Dynamic Volume.
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post #1662 of 3830 Old 02-06-2011, 08:27 PM
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Hello, all. I have an Integra DTC-9.8 and I'm in no rush to upgrade. I was wondering, how do owners of the DHC-80.2 like the preamp? Any significant bugs? I am wondering whether I should buy in June or wait for next year's model which might add 11.2.

Vote with your wallet. Don't buy Cinavia-infected Blu-ray Discs! Why pay a premium for pseudo-lossless audio damaged by an intrusive watermark in the audible spectrum?
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post #1663 of 3830 Old 02-07-2011, 06:59 AM
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Hello, all. I have an Integra DTC-9.8 and I'm in no rush to upgrade. I was wondering, how do owners of the DHC-80.2 like the preamp? Any significant bugs? I am wondering whether I should buy in June or wait for next year's model which might add 11.2.

why are you waiting til June ?
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post #1664 of 3830 Old 02-07-2011, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Hello, all. I have an Integra DTC-9.8 and I'm in no rush to upgrade. I was wondering, how do owners of the DHC-80.2 like the preamp? Any significant bugs? I am wondering whether I should buy in June or wait for next year's model which might add 11.2.

I had a 9.8 and loved it plus Audyssey, then Audyssey Pro. It transformed my music listening in a way no other upgrade ever has, because it was my introduction to hi rez Mch and room EQ. That was so far superior to my very fine and costltly stereo, I could not believe it. I passed on the 9.9, but I had an opportunity to audition an 80.1 in a-b with the 9.8. There was a definite but small improvement, so I did it - foolishly, as it turns out, because of the 80.2, soon to follow.

I then a-b'ed the 80.1 vs. the 80.2 and I found an even more substantial sonic improvement which was quite noticeable. I attribute much of that to XT/32. I am not sure the difference would be that noticeable on movies, and I do not use dual subs, DSX, Dynamic EQ, etc. For me, it's all about music. And, I believe the 80.2 delivers. I have listened to many other higher priced Mch setups, and the 80.2 with Pro gives up very little if anything to them, IMHO, except perhaps the ultimate sound on analog inputs, which I do not use.

I have really had no problems. The relay clicks are no worse than on the 9.8 to me - innocuous. And, it has operated flawlessly from the beginning, better than my 9.8.

I still maintain the 9.8 was one of the greatest bargains in all of audio, perhaps ever. The 80.2 is a noticeable and very satisfying improvement on that. If music - particularly classical - is your thing, also consider Audyssey Pro for the ultimate in sonic refinement and realism. That has been extremely worthwhile to me.
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post #1665 of 3830 Old 02-07-2011, 07:35 AM
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fitz,

agree with everything you said.

doing the Advanced Audyssey room EQ followed by a film such as Inception is a truly special experience with the 80.2.

You mentioned analog. I have been running analog mch(SADC DVD-A) from my Denon 3910 and it sounds wonderful.

Just recevied my Oppo BDP-95, and I have attached the stereo XLR inputs into the 80.2 to see how well that sounds.

I don't know how Integra provides the quality components and sound for the price they charge-make it up in volume? :-)
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post #1666 of 3830 Old 02-07-2011, 08:23 AM
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fitz,

Just recevied my Oppo BDP-95, and I have attached the stereo XLR inputs into the 80.2 to see how well that sounds.
:-)

In the scenario above, would the 80.2 still provide bass management to the subs, our would it just be stereo into the Left and Right speakers?
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post #1667 of 3830 Old 02-07-2011, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bambam View Post

In the scenario above, would the 80.2 still provide bass management to the subs, our would it just be stereo into the Left and Right speakers?


We actually just discussed this on the previous page (55) -

You'd want to run the 80.2 in direct mode. Employing any type of bass management (which for some reason the 80.2 allows you to do in Direct mode) will add a A/D step, basically negating any benefits from the DAC's in the 95.
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Originally Posted by vigga View Post

We actually just discussed this on the previous page (55) -

You'd want to run the 80.2 in direct mode. Employing any type of bass management (which for some reason the 80.2 allows you to do in Direct mode) will add a A/D step, basically negating any benefits from the DAC's in the 95.

Great. Thanks! You just saved me $500 from the Oppo 95 to the 93.
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post #1669 of 3830 Old 02-07-2011, 11:19 AM
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Ran x32 for the first time, my first experience with Audyssey. I have to admit I thought there was going to be more to it. I was surprised that the whole set up was the just the speakers pinging. I expected frequency sweeps and stuff like that.

It set all my speakers crossovers to 40hz, which I was a little surprised about. Some one told me I should switch it to 80hz.

My first movie watching experience was Scott Pillgrim vs the World. I have to say that the experience was unremarkable, the movie sounded like a well calibrated system. I wasn't blown away but I certainly enjoyed it. I had dynamic eq on and dynamic volume set to medium (I have a three year old who was sleeping so I thought this would help).

I also used it when watching the super bowl, it sounded good by I had to turn up the center channel volume so I could hear the dialogue more clearly. I assume I had to do this because because I had a bunch of people over who were talking.

With music I haven't been as impressed, I haven't really given it a critical listen yet though.

The bass seems to be missing a bit. From what I've read that seems to be what most people notice at first.

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post #1670 of 3830 Old 02-07-2011, 01:18 PM
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I have a setting question that is driving me crazy.

I have an Oppo BDP-95 BD player. I want to use it for 3 things:
BD via HDMI
SACD/DVD-A via analog mch
2 channel audio via XLR balanced inputs

My idea is to change the AUDIO setting through the HOME key on the remote from HDMI/MCH/BALANCED

the first two work great. I have Audyssey active for BD. I turn it off for SACD analog mch, running in DIRECT mode, and SACD's sounds incredible.

the 2 channel is what is driving me crazy. If I set the XLR inputs for any input other than the BD input, I get L/R and sub, just what I want.

But, of course, I want to listen to the 2 ch XLR inputs via the BD input on the 80.2 so I can see and control the song list.

My display is showing all channels active and that's indeed what I am hearing. it shows BALANCED input, and ANALOG, no Audyssey. when I hit info, it says output is DIRECT which is what I want. I have the equalizer turned off in the set up menu.

question is why am I still getting 5.1 channel output via the XLR inputs?

any help would be appreciated....I have scoured the manual and changed everything I can think of...

thanks very much Jeff
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post #1671 of 3830 Old 02-07-2011, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06_Pilot View Post

I have a setting question that is driving me crazy.

I have an Oppo BDP-95 BD player. I want to use it for 3 things:
BD via HDMI
SACD/DVD-A via analog mch
2 channel audio via XLR balanced inputs

My idea is to change the AUDIO setting through the HOME key on the remote from HDMI/MCH/BALANCED

the first two work great. I have Audyssey active for BD. I turn it off for SACD analog mch, running in DIRECT mode, and SACD's sounds incredible.

the 2 channel is what is driving me crazy. If I set the XLR inputs for any input other than the BD input, I get L/R and sub, just what I want.

But, of course, I want to listen to the 2 ch XLR inputs via the BD input on the 80.2 so I can see and control the song list.

My display is showing all channels active and that's indeed what I am hearing. it shows BALANCED input, and ANALOG, no Audyssey. when I hit info, it says output is DIRECT which is what I want. I have the equalizer turned off in the set up menu.

question is why am I still getting 5.1 channel output via the XLR inputs?

any help would be appreciated....I have scoured the manual and changed everything I can think of...

thanks very much Jeff


If I understand correctly, the BD input on the Integra is assigned to both an HDMI input and the balanced analog input. I did not know that was possible on a single input. Why not set another input for listening to balanced 2-ch? Assign the balanced input to CD, for example. Both HDMI and balanced analog are coming from the Oppo but as two different inputs, and you can switch between them. You can also set up the Listening Mode Presets to your liking for each input.

I have an 83, not an SE or a 95, but personally, I would not want to listen to music without Audyssey. So, I do only HDMI for Mch music. The improvement over analog or no Audyssey in my system impresses me and everyone who has heard it. Music is where I think it really shines. YMMV.

I do not listen to CD's any longer, but if I did, I would route that into the Integra via coax - lower jitter supposedly. But, from what I have read, jitter is a relative non-issue on compressed audio that is bitstreamed via HDMI, like DSD from SACD's. Coax would feed it into Audyssey without needing a D-A conversion.

I know analog output is great from the 95. But, I would not be tempted, personally, without Audyssey.
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post #1672 of 3830 Old 02-07-2011, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james138 View Post

Ran x32 for the first time, my first experience with Audyssey. I have to admit I thought there was going to be more to it. I was surprised that the whole set up was the just the speakers pinging. I expected frequency sweeps and stuff like that.

It set all my speakers crossovers to 40hz, which I was a little surprised about. Some one told me I should switch it to 80hz.

My first movie watching experience was Scott Pillgrim vs the World. I have to say that the experience was unremarkable, the movie sounded like a well calibrated system. I wasn't blown away but I certainly enjoyed it. I had dynamic eq on and dynamic volume set to medium (I have a three year old who was sleeping so I thought this would help).

I also used it when watching the super bowl, it sounded good by I had to turn up the center channel volume so I could hear the dialogue more clearly. I assume I had to do this because because I had a bunch of people over who were talking.

With music I haven't been as impressed, I haven't really given it a critical listen yet though.

The bass seems to be missing a bit. From what I've read that seems to be what most people notice at first.

The pings test the full frequency range better than frequency sweeps, and more quickly, too. So, don't be alarmed.

If Audyssey set your speaker x-overs at 40 Hz or below, you are fine. But, you should never set them below the x-over calculated by Audyssey. Audyssey provides no correction below the calculated x-over.

Don't know what to make of your center dialog issues. Mine was fine during the SuperBowl. I could hear the announcers just fine above the surrounding crowd noise using PL2X. A relative was complaining about the same thing for football. He had moved his listening chair. I redid his calibration prior to the Super Bowl, and he reports it was much better. Recheck this sitting at the sweet spot. Movies are often a good test, with most dialogue coming from the center channel.

Audyssey is not designed to blow you away, unless well banced, natural sound blows you away. It does to me. Give it a few days. You may be used to a lot of flaws caused by your room, which might be spectacular - in the bass, for example - but they are not natural or truthful.
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post #1673 of 3830 Old 02-07-2011, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post


The pings test the full frequency range better than frequency sweeps, and more quickly, too. So, don't be alarmed.

If Audyssey set your speaker x-overs at 40 Hz or below, you are fine. But, you should never set them below the x-over calculated by Audyssey. Audyssey provides no correction below the calculated x-over.

Don't know what to make of your center dialog issues. Mine was fine during the SuperBowl. I could hear the announcers just fine above the surrounding crowd noise using PL2X. A relative was complaining about the same thing for football. He had moved his listening chair. I redid his calibration prior to the Super Bowl, and he reports it was much better. Recheck this sitting at the sweet spot. Movies are often a good test, with most dialogue coming from the center channel.

Audyssey is not designed to blow you away, unless well banced, natural sound blows you away. It does to me. Give it a few days. You may be used to a lot of flaws caused by your room, which might be spectacular - in the bass, for example - but they are not natural or truthful.

Thanks for the info, I may need to play around with x32 to get it just right.

I've only given it a cursory listen for music but the individual instruments didn't seem as well defined as I would have hoped. Everything kind of sounded blended together, I'll try to give it a listen tonight.

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post #1674 of 3830 Old 02-08-2011, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

If I understand correctly, the BD input on the Integra is assigned to both an HDMI input and the balanced analog input. I did not know that was possible on a single input. Why not set another input for listening to balanced 2-ch? Assign the balanced input to CD, for example. Both HDMI and balanced analog are coming from the Oppo but as two different inputs, and you can switch between them. You can also set up the Listening Mode Presets to your liking for each input.

I have an 83, not an SE or a 95, but personally, I would not want to listen to music without Audyssey. So, I do only HDMI for Mch music. The improvement over analog or no Audyssey in my system impresses me and everyone who has heard it. Music is where I think it really shines. YMMV.

I do not listen to CD's any longer, but if I did, I would route that into the Integra via coax - lower jitter supposedly. But, from what I have read, jitter is a relative non-issue on compressed audio that is bitstreamed via HDMI, like DSD from SACD's. Coax would feed it into Audyssey without needing a D-A conversion.

I know analog output is great from the 95. But, I would not be tempted, personally, without Audyssey.

Hi Fitz. oh yea, you can run multple inputs through the same front panel selection. I bring up my BD input via the HOME button on my remote, click on AUDIO, and flip between HDMI, Multi-Channel, and Balanced.

the downside, of course, is that I have to manipulate processing on the 80.2 for each of the three audio selections(Audyssey ON for HDMI for BD movies, Analog only with equalizer OFF for Multi-Channel and Balanced input audio)

problem is I have EVERY hole filled up on my 80.2!! so I am having to double up on some inputs from an audio perspective.

Also, If I use an input for my audio other then the one I have my BD player plugged into, I don't have any video to control my Oppo as a music player for CD, SACD, DVD-A, or playing FLAC music files.

Everything is working great except that I can't figure out how to stop the 80.2 from outputing my XLR 2ch audio through 6 channels...
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post #1675 of 3830 Old 02-08-2011, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Don't know what to make of your center dialog issues. Mine was fine during the SuperBowl. .

Yikes! Don't use TV as a reference for what Audyssey does. There's way too many hands in play by the time a TV feed gets to your system. You can get different sounding feeds from the same program on different channels.. or the cable provider might give you the same feed to all channels showing that program and screw up the signals in that process...
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post #1676 of 3830 Old 02-08-2011, 07:46 AM
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Thanks for the info, I may need to play around with x32 to get it just right.

I've only given it a cursory listen for music but the individual instruments didn't seem as well defined as I would have hoped. Everything kind of sounded blended together, I'll try to give it a listen tonight.

That doesn't sound right, it should be the opposite.

Do yourself a favor and read the excellent Audyssey Set Up Guide on the first post in the Audyssey thread before you give it a re-go.

It's a must read for anyone running it that hasn't before.
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post #1677 of 3830 Old 02-08-2011, 04:16 PM
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My crossover were set at 40hz as well, I ran multiple times. I have no idea why my rears were set to 40hz since there crossover setting should be higher.
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post #1678 of 3830 Old 02-08-2011, 04:40 PM
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My crossover were set at 40hz as well, I ran multiple times. I have no idea why my rears were set to 40hz since there crossover setting should be higher.

Based on the speakers' response where they are in your room and the manufacturer's criteria, a 40Hz crossover was selected. I would raise them to 60Hz or even 80Hz.

Jeff
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post #1679 of 3830 Old 02-08-2011, 05:12 PM
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My crossover were set at 40hz as well, I ran multiple times. I have no idea why my rears were set to 40hz since there crossover setting should be higher.

Based on what?
As Jeff suggested the in-room response is what's measured and that will frequently be lower than the speakers' published specs due to room and placement influences.
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post #1680 of 3830 Old 02-09-2011, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by solly46 View Post

My crossover were set at 40hz as well, I ran multiple times. I have no idea why my rears were set to 40hz since there crossover setting should be higher.

Many speakers are capable of hitting lower hertz than they are given credit for. That being said, unless you're in a large room, a crossover setting of 40Hz would make your subwoofer very lonely. I would certainly increase the Hz to about 80 or so, if you have a potent subwoofer. If your sub isn't the greatest, perhaps a crossover of 60hz may be optimal, if your speakers SOUND good when bass is extended (emphasis on sound sinnce just because a speaker can measure down to 40hz doesn't mean it will sound good as it produces 40hz, ya know?)

I say all that to say, all our tastes are different. I have a friend who has his subwoofer way too high--it's not that he doesn't know that setup is wrong; he just want to feel a rumble everytime someone talks. Personal theater preferences are as various as clothing styles. i personally always move crossovers to 80hz for my L & R speakers, and 100Hz for the Center and Surround Channels since my SVS-PB13 Ultra sub blends the best with my towers at those settings. I make sure to keep all the other settings Audyssey suggests. (spk. level, distance, etc).

It's your canvas--enjoy painting.
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