The Official Integra DHC-80.2 Pre/Pro Thread - Page 67 - AVS Forum
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post #1981 of 3830 Old 03-11-2011, 02:22 PM
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I just got my 80.2,1 week wait vs. my three month and still counting wait for the marantz 7005.I am glad I made the change, so far I have not heard the dreaded loud relay clicking, When the relay does click I got a loud pop, thump much louder than the relay. I fixed this by using coax or opt. digital for audio instead of hdmi , this is for my direct tv hr 24-100. Blu-ray movies are not too bad with a few pops and relay clicks threw hdmi.I do not see any audyssey graphs, like on the marantz receivers , Do we not get a way to view what audyssey is doing.Well the next day the speaker pops are now louder than I thought.The pops do drown out the clicks. Maybe the coax opt input is not working as I thought.
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post #1982 of 3830 Old 03-11-2011, 07:46 PM
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makes you wonder what's the difference is... I have the little brother to the 80.2 the
DHC40.2 its going on 7 months now and havent had any problems at all everything just works..............!!
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post #1983 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Well, so much for buying an 80.2. It looks like DTS has their new NEO:X sound format which will be integrated into the 2011 Onkyo/Integra lines... I might as well wait 6mos and get the next revision for that. I can never get more than 15% discount on Integra stuff anyway...

Ruined, May I ask you where have you read this, I'm curious because I want to buy the "most updated" processor for my Nad 25 amp, and it don't necessarily need to be a Nad :-) ... , and I'm willing to wait for "the right one" (Integra)

kindly
Jan
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post #1984 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 08:38 AM
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I can not get the low pass xovers of my 80.2 for my two subs to go lower than 80 hz. Why is this happening.
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post #1985 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomefs View Post

I can not get the high pass xovers of my 80.2 for my two subs to go lower than 80 hz. Why is this happening.


80hz is the lowest crossover setting allowed by the unit on the LFE channel.
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post #1986 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 09:14 AM
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Why would you want to go lower? 120 hz is the usual setting for this.

Each set of speakers can have xovers for low frequencies to go to sub as you want.

The lfe channel has information up to around 120hz
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post #1987 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

Why would you want to go lower? 120 hz is the usual setting for this.

Each set of speakers can have xovers for low frequencies to go to sub as you want.

The lfe channel has information up to around 120hz

Thanks I edited this post.
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post #1988 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 09:59 AM
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I have a few questions about this 80.2 I have read about the audyssey target curve on other receivers. What is it ? do we have it, and why cant I see it. Can we change it , and is there no display of it like on the Marantz receivers.I would like to have a subsonic filter below my custom subwoofer cutoff freq.Is audyssey providing me with this, I do not want to blow my woofers as I have a powerfull system. I am comming from a veledyne sms-1 with a two chanel poweramp.that had this feature.The amp does have a 30 hz cutoff freq. but I do not want to use this as it is too high, I want about 15 or 20hz.Thanks for reading.
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post #1989 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomefs View Post


Well my now decomishined lexicon went to 40 hz and most other receivers do also,lfe is one thing but music or none lfe still could be xover lower. The higher the xover frequencies the more chance you have of hearing the sub, if I cross my mains over at 50 I want the sub to cross over at 50 also , I do not want overlap.All this is just theory, Iam trying to understand how this 80.2 works Thanks

With music there is no lfe. So the only sounds to your sub will come from those below the xover of your mains.

Not to worry.
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post #1990 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomefs View Post

I have a few questions about this 80.2 I have read about the audyssey target curve on other receivers. What is it ? do we have it, and why cant I see it. Can we change it , and is there no display of it like on the Marantz receivers.I would like to have a subsonic filter below my custom subwoofer cutoff freq.Is audyssey providing me with this, I do not want to blow my woofers as I have a powerfull system. I am comming from a veledyne sms-1 with a two chanel poweramp.that had this feature.The amp does have a 30 hz cutoff freq. but I do not want to use this as it is too high, I want about 15 or 20hz.Thanks for reading.

You should go the Audyssey thread and do some reading. The pro kit would give you all you ask. But before you go that route you should become comfortable with your unit and the standard xt32 Audyssey set up.
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post #1991 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

With music there is no lfe. So the only sounds to your sub will come from those below the xover of your mains.

Not to worry.

Thanks I was thinking that LFE was for all the chanel HPF, I will leave the LFE at 120 hz.
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post #1992 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

You should go the Audyssey thread and do some reading. The pro kit would give you all you ask. But before you go that route you should become comfortable with your unit and the standard xt32 Audyssey set up.

Yes I have been to the audyssey website, and the thread also, but can not seem to find an anser to my questions, I do not want the pro kit, but want to get the most out of the stock 80.2 version of audyssey, Thanks.
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post #1993 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomefs View Post

I can not get the high pass xovers of my 80.2 for my two subs to go lower than 80 hz. Why is this happening.

There seems to be some confusion here. There are two different types of crossovers. The first and most important is the normal, channel by channel crossover to the subwoofers - if the channel is not set to "Full Band" (formerly "large"). This can be set between 40 Hz and 200 Hz independently for each channel. So, there are 5 or 7 or 9 of these settings, depending on how many channels you have. This controls where a signal is directed. If the signal's frequency is below the indicated x-over frequency, it is directed to the sub(s); if above, it is directed to the respective channel. Audyssey will set these automatically for you, and it is a good idea to leave them that way. You can raise them from Audyssey's measured setting, but you should not lower the setting.

The second type is the "LPF of LFE". There is only one setting for this and it is between 80 Hz and 120Hz. This one setting controls the upper limit in the LFE channel, so it is not a crossover, merely a low-pass filter. The only reason not to set this at 120 Hz is if your subwoofer lacks response up to 120, or it has difficulties with frequencies that high (unlikely).

I think it is clear you are confusing the first type of setting with the LPF of LFE setting. You do not need the Pro kit.
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post #1994 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomefs View Post

I have a few questions about this 80.2 I have read about the audyssey target curve on other receivers. What is it ? do we have it, and why cant I see it. Can we change it , and is there no display of it like on the Marantz receivers.I would like to have a subsonic filter below my custom subwoofer cutoff freq.Is audyssey providing me with this, I do not want to blow my woofers as I have a powerfull system. I am comming from a veledyne sms-1 with a two chanel poweramp.that had this feature.The amp does have a 30 hz cutoff freq. but I do not want to use this as it is too high, I want about 15 or 20hz.Thanks for reading.

There are some graphs of the stock Audyssey target curve used in all MultEQ, XT and XT/32 units floating around on the web somewhere. I do not have a handy link, but I have seen it. It is flat to around 4k Hz, with a rolloff above that to 20K hz, and there is a slight dip at 2K hz.

You can change it, but only with the Audyssey Pro kit, not with a stock 80.2.

There is no subsonic filter in Audyssey or in the 80.2, AFAIK.

You cannot set xovers below 40 Hz in the 80.2.
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post #1995 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

There seems to be some confusion here. There are two different types of crossovers. The first and most important is the normal, channel by channel crossover to the subwoofers - if the channel is not set to "Full Band" (formerly "large"). This can be set between 40 Hz and 200 Hz independently for each channel. So, there are 5 or 7 or 9 of these settings, depending on how many channels you have. This controls where a signal is directed. If the signal's frequency is below the indicated x-over frequency, it is directed to the sub(s); if above, it is directed to the respective channel. Audyssey will set these automatically for you, and it is a good idea to leave them that way. You can raise them from Audyssey's measured setting, but you should not lower the setting.

The second type is the "LPF of LFE". There is only one setting for this and it is between 80 Hz and 120Hz. This one setting controls the upper limit in the LFE channel, so it is not a crossover, merely a low-pass filter. The only reason not to set this at 120 Hz is if your subwoofer lacks response up to 120, or it has difficulties with frequencies that high (unlikely).

I think it is clear you are confusing the first type of setting with the LPF of LFE setting. You do not need the Pro kit.

Thanks for your responce. Yes I was confused with the LFE chan.thinking it was for all the sub bass but I guess the LPF is changed when you select the HPF for each chanel.My Lexicon did not do that you could overlap freq. if wanted too.I did not write the thead right sorry to everyone I will edit it . I should have not said the lowest xover is at 80 hz but the lowest LPF at 80 hz instead.But the fact is still here there is no way to lower the LPF to less than 80hz.
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post #1996 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

There are some graphs of the stock Audyssey target curve used in all MultEQ, XT and XT/32 units floating around on the web somewhere. I do not have a handy link, but I have seen it. It is flat to around 4k Hz, with a rolloff above that to 20K hz, and there is a slight dip at 2K hz.

You can change it, but only with the Audyssey Pro kit, not with a stock 80.2.

There is no subsonic filter in Audyssey or in the 80.2, AFAIK.

You cannot set xovers below 40 Hz in the 80.2.

The graphs I spoke of are in the marantz GUI after you set up audyssey,one for each chanel.I also thought I read that you could change the traget curve to a preselected one at the push of a button. I thought the 80.2 might have one or more of those features although thegraphs are somewhat useless they give you an idea of what is bosted or cut.Thanks
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post #1997 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomefs View Post

The graphs I spoke of are in the marantz GUI after you set up audyssey,one for each chanel.I also thought I read that you could change the traget curve to a preselected one at the push of a button. I thought the 80.2 might have one or more of those features although thegraphs are somewhat useless they give you an idea of what is bosted or cut.Thanks

The Integra does not have a GUI readout of the graph. I do not know the Marantz, but it might have a choice of normal or flat Audyssey curves. The flat curve does not have the high end roloff.


Flat sounds like it should be good, and the one to use, but trust me, it is not. Measures flat and sounds flat are 2 different things. If it measures flat in your room via the mike, the highs are going to sound much too hot. You will be fine with the stock Audyssey curve. I have Audyssey Pro, and I could use any curve I wanted (with graphic readout via PC), but I use the stock curve, except that I eliminate the dip at 2K Hz.
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post #1998 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by tomefs View Post

Thanks for your responce. Yes I was confused with the LFE chan.thinking it was for all the sub bass but I guess the LPF is changed when you select the HPF for each chanel.My Lexicon did not do that you could overlap freq. if wanted too.I did not write the thead right sorry to everyone I will edit it . I should have not said the lowest xover is at 80 hz but the lowest LPF at 80 hz instead.But the fact is still here there is no way to lower the LPF to less than 80hz.

I think you are still confused. The LPF is only for the LFE channel in any source that includes the .1 channel. Yes, the LFE is directed to the sub, but so are signals from any other channel below their selected crossovers. So, what the sub puts out is (a.) the signal from each channel (main, center and surrounds) below the selected crossover FOR THAT CHANNEL ONLY, and plus (b.) the signal in the LFE channel only below the selected LPF of LFE.

Trust me, you want to set the LPF of the LFE channel to 120 Hz. Otherwise, you may be throwing away information in the .1 channel above the LPF you have selected. It has nowhere else to go if the LPF frequency is set too low. It will just be thrown away. It has nothing to do with the crossovers to the main, center and surround speakers.

This, by the way, is basicaly how all prepros and AVR's operate. It is not specific to the Integra.
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post #1999 of 3830 Old 03-12-2011, 08:50 PM
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can owner's chime in on preference for multi-channel music?

via HDMI with EQ

or

analog direct via RCA's? (no processing)
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post #2000 of 3830 Old 03-13-2011, 09:42 AM
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I like stereo for most cds but for multichannel upscaling I use neo music or digital music. Sounds good with blues from the 70 s. In all cases hdmi with Audyssey. DSD for SACDs. I use an oppo 83 for sacd and blu ray. Bitstream for those with straight decode for blu ray.
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post #2001 of 3830 Old 03-13-2011, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by tallnick View Post

can owner's chime in on preference for multi-channel music?

via HDMI with EQ

or

analog direct via RCA's? (no processing)

Overwhelmingly, my choice is HDMI with Audyssey for SACD and BR Mch. It is not close. I listen to classical recordings, and I go to a lot of live concerts. I was there when a number of the Ondine Philadelphia Orchestra SACDs were recorded. To me, my system sounds much, much more like a live concert as I have described. I have heard only one system that sounded perhaps slightly better than my own. That was a Meitner player/Mch DAC with 5 huge Sound Labs electrostats in a near-field listening configuraton in a treated room. Nice sound, but it was hugely expensive, and there was only one listening position. Video was impossible because of the huge center 'stat 5 feet in front of you.

I have also heard quite a fair number of $100K to $400K stereos. They do not come close to room EQ'ed Mch in terms of musical truthfulness to live performance. I would not want them.

I even convinced a well known reviewer of recordings to get rid of his "pure DSD" Mch Esoteric player/Audio Research controller via analog in favor of an Oppo plus an Anthem D2V via HDMI. I demoed my old 9.8 in his system with an Audyssey Pro calibration, and in 5 minutes, he was ready to make the change. That is how obvious the improvement was. He chose the Anthem because it has better sounding analog inputs than the Integra for stereo vinyl, plus he gets a substantial discount as an "industry insider". But, for music listening, he is every bit as much a believer now in room EQ provided by the Anthem's ARC system, which is similar to Audyssey. Personally, I think my system sounds better than his Anthem/Wilson/Pass Labs system, in spite of the far less expensive controller and other components. I use 7 Martin Logans with a mix of amps from Spectron. Bryston and Parasound Halo plus a JL Fathom f113 sub.

I recently sold my 80.1 to a friend who had a Sony 777ES Mch player with analog outputs. He too agrees that his system sounds much, much better via HDMI from a Sony 5400 with Audyssey on than via analog.

So, I do not see any upside whatsoever to analog for hi rez Mch. You also need to spend a whole lot more for a player than my $500 Oppo BDP-83 via HDMI to get halfway decent sound via analog. At best, its still not going to sound as good without room EQ.
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post #2002 of 3830 Old 03-13-2011, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

There seems to be some confusion here. There are two different types of crossovers. The first and most important is the normal, channel by channel crossover to the subwoofers - if the channel is not set to "Full Band" (formerly "large"). This can be set between 40 Hz and 200 Hz independently for each channel. So, there are 5 or 7 or 9 of these settings, depending on how many channels you have. This controls where a signal is directed. If the signal's frequency is below the indicated x-over frequency, it is directed to the sub(s); if above, it is directed to the respective channel. Audyssey will set these automatically for you, and it is a good idea to leave them that way. You can raise them from Audyssey's measured setting, but you should not lower the setting.

The second type is the "LPF of LFE". There is only one setting for this and it is between 80 Hz and 120Hz. This one setting controls the upper limit in the LFE channel, so it is not a crossover, merely a low-pass filter. The only reason not to set this at 120 Hz is if your subwoofer lacks response up to 120, or it has difficulties with frequencies that high (unlikely).

I think it is clear you are confusing the first type of setting with the LPF of LFE setting. You do not need the Pro kit.

Thanks made all the difference.
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post #2003 of 3830 Old 03-13-2011, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Overwhelmingly, my choice is HDMI with Audyssey for SACD and BR Mch. It is not close.

thanks fitz for, once again, a very informative answer.

one final question. do you have the oppo output DSD or PCM for SACD?
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post #2004 of 3830 Old 03-13-2011, 03:29 PM
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thanks fitz for, once again, a very informative answer.

one final question. do you have the oppo output DSD or PCM for SACD?

DSD sounds better to me and to others.
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post #2005 of 3830 Old 03-13-2011, 03:38 PM
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DSD sounds better to me and to others.

Yes, this allows the 80.2 to do all the "work."

Jeff
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post #2006 of 3830 Old 03-13-2011, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

The Integra does not have a GUI readout of the graph. I do not know the Marantz, but it might have a choice of normal or flat Audyssey curves. The flat curve does not have the high end roloff.


Flat sounds like it should be good, and the one to use, but trust me, it is not. Measures flat and sounds flat are 2 different things. If it measures flat in your room via the mike, the highs are going to sound much too hot. You will be fine with the stock Audyssey curve. I have Audyssey Pro, and I could use any curve I wanted (with graphic readout via PC), but I use the stock curve, except that I eliminate the dip at 2K Hz.

Does using the pro kit make that much of a difference in sound from a calibration using the mic that comes with the 80.2? I'm struggling to justify paying $700 (pro kit and license) not knowing if I'll be getting that much of a difference (improvement) in sound.
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post #2007 of 3830 Old 03-14-2011, 04:21 AM
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Yes, I'm getting them too. Always have, as far as I remember. I tolerate it, but it certainly makes Pandora less appealing than it would be otherwise.
Thx, I thought I had changed something because I did not notice it before. I had not listened to it that much.

I do think it is annoying and wish Integra would address this. The relay clicks are my only complaint.

BTW, I called Integra about this and they said they did nto experience it. I do not believe they have ever listened to Pandora, They asked me to try the VTuner and it does cause clicks, that is because it is a continuous unbroken feed.
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post #2008 of 3830 Old 03-14-2011, 06:26 AM
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Does using the pro kit make that much of a difference in sound from a calibration using the mic that comes with the 80.2? I'm struggling to justify paying $700 (pro kit and license) not knowing if I'll be getting that much of a difference (improvement) in sound.
I will say this. If you listen to music a lot and you want maximum realism relative to live concerts, I think it is easily justified. I am doubting that the payoff would be as great if movies are your primary interest.

The difference in going from zero to stock XT/32 is far greater than going from there to Pro. It's been a while since I did a comparison, but that difference is mainly about subtleties in tonality, air and imaging. I think better air and imaging are the most noticeable. This is primarily about the ability to remove the target curve response dip at 2K Hz with Pro. Also, if your theater has multiple seating rows, there might be an advantage to the 32 mike calibration points with Pro, but that does not apply to me. I use a maximum of about 13 positions around my 3 seat sofa.

I made the investment in Pro as a long term commitment to Audyssey, which I think is the premier DSP EQ system out there. I think I will be using it for a long time, whether its on an 80.2 or something newer. I have already used it on a 9.8, 80.1 and 80.2. I have also done a few different rooms with it for friends, with great success.

So, I am sold on it. Joel Schnur just got it. Joel, what do you think?
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post #2009 of 3830 Old 03-14-2011, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

I will say this. If you listen to music a lot and you want maximum realism relative to live concerts, I think it is easily justified. I am doubting that the payoff would be as great if movies are your primary interest.

The difference in going from zero to stock XT/32 is far greater than going from there to Pro. It's been a while since I did a comparison, but that difference is mainly about subtleties in tonality, air and imaging. I think better air and imaging are the most noticeable. This is primarily about the ability to remove the target curve response dip at 2K Hz with Pro. Also, if your theater has multiple seating rows, there might be an advantage to the 32 mike calibration points with Pro, but that does not apply to me. I use a maximum of about 13 positions around my 3 seat sofa.

I made the investment in Pro as a long term commitment to Audyssey, which I think is the premier DSP EQ system out there. I think I will be using it for a long time, whether its on an 80.2 or something newer. I have already used it on a 9.8, 80.1 and 80.2. I have also done a few different rooms with it for friends, with great success.

So, I am sold on it. Joel Schnur just got it. Joel, what do you think?

The pro kit made a difference in the "airiness" of the music. Being able to disable the mid bass correction helped in my case.

I also felt the surrounds were a bit better. but the biggest difference was the center channel (voices) and stereo (classical music e.g. Shostokovich Quartets in stereo and on a Bluy-ray-AIX) seemed better to me. MY SACD jazz collection also sounds very nice- but very hard to do a before and after.

I agrree with Carl- not a big difference but a plus for music lovers
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post #2010 of 3830 Old 03-14-2011, 10:27 AM
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Because my sig is loaded with Audyssey plugs, I usually refrain from saying much about Audyssey outside of the Audyssey thread.

I use the kit and it made improvements in my system that surprised me. Don't misunderstand .. for the cost, I expected improvements. But I didn't expect them to come in the areas that the "stock" Audyssey had already made in my system.

The integration of the surrounds with the fronts .. as I alluded already excellent .. improved. And, equally amazing, the integration of the SUBs with the main channels improved.

The example I use is in the cave sequence in Iron Man where Stark's assistant "buys him more time" by running out of the room with an automatic weapon. At one point he comes from the right side of the room onto the screen. My surrounds are crossed at 100Hz, and I know that there is nothing, or at least not much, below 100Hz coming from them, but yet there is the entire report of the machine gun from the highs of the percussive attack to the chest-thumping bottom of it resonating through the cave "coming from" the right surround speaker. The sound/sound effect of that machine gun is "as a whole" during the entire pan .. unchanged from right surround to right front and on to the center channel. This pulled me out of the movie the first time I heard it and continues to pull me out of the movie; I am cursed by knowing that the bottom end of the weapon's sound coming from the surround is only an illusion and I can't get beyond the technical achievement that is behind it sounding like that, that the timbre of the upper range of the sub is so well matched with the lower range of the mains.

Like fitzcaraldo, I am committed to Audyssey Pro and going forward it would be a deal breaker for any pre/pro to NOT be Pro-ready.

That's my story ...

Jeff
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