Subwoofer low volume puzzle - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 09-17-2010, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I have the following system setup:

Sherwood Newcastle R-772
PSB T65 Front and Left
PSB C-60 Center
M&K MX-105 MKII Powered Subwoofer

The problem is that I can barely get any sound (just a whisper at full volume of +9 dB) when I have RCA from the receiver to the subwoofer from normal sources. I have tried PS3 HDMI to receiver, DVD auxiliary into the receiver, ipod auxiliary into the receiver.

Clues:

I get full sound out of the subwoofer during the auto setup test (white noise)

I get full sound out of the subwoofer when I hook an ipod directly to the subwoofer via RCA. (Scared to go above -6dB on the sub)

I get full sound when I connect my laptop from my 3.5mm headphone jack to RCA.

I have been troubleshooting for hours and can not figure this out.

Please help me. Thank You.
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post #2 of 16 Old 09-17-2010, 06:58 PM
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A common reason for low subwoofer bass with a stereo source would be having your L/R speakers set to large.

Do movies or other 5.1 material work ok?

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #3 of 16 Old 09-17-2010, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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The auto-setup automatically setup the crossover frequencies and decibel levels for each channel. Subwoofer is set to Yes.

I have surround sound on, and right, left and center channels all have sound. I tried a PS3 video game, which uses surround sound, with no luck.
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post #4 of 16 Old 09-17-2010, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoncic View Post

The auto-setup automatically setup the crossover frequencies and decibel levels for each channel. Subwoofer is set to Yes.

I have surround sound on, and right, left and center channels all have sound. I tried a PS3 video game, which uses surround sound, with no luck.

Is the PS3 the only source you have tried? I do not have a PS3 but could it be a setting on the PS3 that is causing low sub output? Are there any settings on the 772 besides the sub level that might cause the low sub output? Some AVR/prepros have LFE settings per input or audio format that can increase or decrease LFE output. I have found that sometimes having one setting not set correctly can cause issues like this.

Bill

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post #5 of 16 Old 09-17-2010, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I have tried an ipod into CD IN with surround mode set to auto. I also have crossovers set for the front speakers. Would the AVR not automatically sent the crossover frequencies to the sub, even for stereo source?

I tried both CDs and DVS with the PS3, and neither had any difference than the ipod. I will check the PS3 settings tomorrow.

LFE settings are:

FL: -15 dB
FR: -15dB
Sub: 0 dB

cranking the sub up to +15dB has a very minor affect. I am still stumped.
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post #6 of 16 Old 09-17-2010, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoncic View Post

I have tried an ipod into CD IN with surround mode set to auto. I also have crossovers set for the front speakers. Would the AVR not automatically sent the crossover frequencies to the sub, even for stereo source?

I tried both CDs and DVS with the PS3, and neither had any difference than the ipod. I will check the PS3 settings tomorrow.

LFE settings are:

FL: -15 dB
FR: -15dB
Sub: 0 dB

cranking the sub up to +15dB has a very minor affect. I am still stumped.

I am wondering why your front speaker settings are so low? I'm not sure why you refer to those settings as "LFE settings" as the LFE setting is really only for the sub and not the front speakers. Have you tried manually setting the speaker and sub levels with a SPL meter?

Bill

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post #7 of 16 Old 09-17-2010, 09:33 PM
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Some of your explanations are not clear to me, may be my own fault.

Let's take a basic situation, that should work.

Play a CD on the PS3 (or some other music, and music you know has bass)
Make sure your bass management on your receiver is set like so -

Left/Right speakers - small
Subwoofer - at level auto setup set it to (which should be mostly correct)
Bass output - Subwoofer (not main or both, just make sure your bass is set to go to the subwoofer)
LFE level - 0 dB (This should not matter for 2 channel music, but for movies, it should be set to 0 dB, at least that's the way it works with Yamaha receivers)

Now, you should feel the sub woofer cone move, and should hear reasonable bass.

Another idea is to run a low frequency sweep. Test tones files can be found online

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #8 of 16 Old 09-18-2010, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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This may be particular to the Sherwood Newcastle.

There is no small/med/large setting for speakers.

I think the LFE is set for the front and left for when they are full range speakers that can handle the low frequencies.

There is a Normal and Subwoofer+ mode, and that means, if the speakers are set to full range in their crossover frequencies, then it will also send the LFE signal to the subwoofer. If it is in normal mode, then it will only send the frequencies below the crossover setting. I tried every option :Full-range/with Sub+. Set crossovers to 200 Hz on normal and sub+.

The subwoofer isnt bad. I pressed my finger to the RCA cable going into the subwoofer and got a nice hum.

I get a slight sound out of the sub when it's cranked all the way up like it is getting some sore of signal, but way lower than line-level.

When I hook up an ipod directly to the sub and turn it up, the walls/windows/floors shake. So the sub is good.

I think the next step is trying it with a different receiver and/or trying another powered sub with this receiver.

Also, I played a dvd and output 5.1 LPCM from the PS3 and was getting surround from the front 3 channels (dialog in center, side noises from FL and FR). and just barely audible sound from the sub when it's cranked all the way up.

At this point, I think it may be a software/firmware issue, because when I run test tones, the sub is LOUD, so there is a signal coming from the Sub RCA output from the AVR when running test or auto setup.
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post #9 of 16 Old 09-18-2010, 11:48 AM
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Never heard of any recent receiver without basic bass management. That's very odd, if true.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #10 of 16 Old 09-18-2010, 11:55 AM
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Here -

"When the low frequency signals of channels set to "FULL RANGE" are reproduced from those
channels only. In this mode, the low frequency signals that are reproduced from the subwoofer
channel is only the low frequency signals of LFE (from the multi-channel sources that contains LFE
(Low Frequency Effects) channel, also called the ".1" channel) and the channels set to the setting
value other than "FULL RANGE"."

That implies that you can set it up to send bass to the subwoofer for low fequencies I think.

It seems like you just need to set a crossover for the L/R channels if I read the manual correctly - as opposed to having them set to full range.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #11 of 16 Old 09-19-2010, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, that is how I interpreted the manual. Sorry, I was not able to explain that very well.

I tried that. It still did not work. just a very low sound when the sub was cranked all the way (it was a signal that matched the music, just very very very low).
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post #12 of 16 Old 09-19-2010, 09:36 AM
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I don't want to insult your intelligence, but subwoofer output does sound quieter than the music as it's contribution to the music is much smaller.

Here's what I think you should do. Get a frequency sweep file online. Say 20hz to 200hz or so. Play that. You should hear bass throughout the sweep, except maybe at the lowest freq's and lower at room modes. With those frequencies, and a crossover of 80hz, you should hear bass from both the sub and the mains. If you hear almost no bass below the crossover, then something seems to be wrong (and use the normal level for the sub, not turned all the way up!)

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #13 of 16 Old 09-19-2010, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I don't want to insult your intelligence, but subwoofer output does sound quieter than the music as it's contribution to the music is much smaller.

Here's what I think you should do. Get a frequency sweep file online. Say 20hz to 200hz or so. Play that. You should hear bass throughout the sweep, except maybe at the lowest freq's and lower at room modes. With those frequencies, and a crossover of 80hz, you should hear bass from both the sub and the mains. If you hear almost no bass below the crossover, then something seems to be wrong (and use the normal level for the sub, not turned all the way up!)

No offense taken. I was not trying to say it was just quiet. I mean, it was barely perceptible (no driver movement).

I got a low frequency sweep, and here is what I found:

With the source hooked directly to the sub, there was definitely driver movement at a normal reference level on the sub. There was a high dB level of sound

With the source hooked to the AVR in surround sound mode:

Cross-overs set to fullrange with setting on Sub+ (means low frequencies get sent to both fronts, center and sub for 3.1): sweep heard on fronts and center, but not on sub.

Cross-overs set to 250 Hz for Fronts and Center: Sweep hear on fronts and center, but at a perceptibly lower dB level than before (makes me think the lowpass filter is working), but with no perceptible sound on the sub.

Other notes: I tried hooking the sub to the Room 2 RCA output (thinking it might just be the subwoofer output that was not getting a signal, with no luck).

I'm thinking I need an expert on Sherwood Newcastle Receivers to help me out. I am still in over my head, but I have learned quite a bit.

Also, I'm getting a very low dB frequency sweep on the Subwoofer, but it seems to be spanning the whole sweep, even with the crossover set to 80 Hz.



Could this be a problem with the low-pass filter on the AVR?
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post #14 of 16 Old 09-19-2010, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoncic View Post

No offense taken. I was not trying to say it was just quiet. I mean, it was barely perceptible (no driver movement).

I got a low frequency sweep, and here is what I found:

With the source hooked directly to the sub, there was definitely driver movement at a normal reference level on the sub. There was a high dB level of sound

With the source hooked to the AVR in surround sound mode:

Cross-overs set to fullrange with setting on Sub+ (means low frequencies get sent to both fronts, center and sub for 3.1): sweep heard on fronts and center, but not on sub.

Cross-overs set to 250 Hz for Fronts and Center: Sweep hear on fronts and center, but at a perceptibly lower dB level than before (makes me think the lowpass filter is working), but with no perceptible sound on the sub.

Other notes: I tried hooking the sub to the Room 2 RCA output (thinking it might just be the subwoofer output that was not getting a signal, with no luck).

I'm thinking I need an expert on Sherwood Newcastle Receivers to help me out. I am still in over my head, but I have learned quite a bit.

Also, I'm getting a very low dB frequency sweep on the Subwoofer, but it seems to be spanning the whole sweep, even with the crossover set to 80 Hz.



Could this be a problem with the low-pass filter on the AVR?

My suggestion would be to contact Jeff @ Sherwood for more setup details, his email is jeff@sherwoodamerica.com
Jeff is a home theater pro and will help U or assign someone to this.

Note that if the AVR has Dolby surround, it is required to have bass management in order to be certified.

Just my $0.02...
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post #15 of 16 Old 09-19-2010, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you very much for that contact. I will write up a report for them and will follow up here with any feedback, in case anybody else has this issue.

The Sherwood Newcastle R-772 does have bass management support, and I believe I understand all of the settings now, but they are not giving me the results that I would expect. It has been quite a struggle, but I have learned quite a bit throughout my troubleshooting and research. Follow up to come in the next week or so, hopefully.
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post #16 of 16 Old 10-01-2012, 02:57 PM
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Jeff is no longer at Sherwood. He's at ATI/Theta Digital.

Eugene Chavez is back at Sherwood doing tech support. He's good. I worked with him for nearly a decade.

My suggestion would be to re-set your receiver and then start over. I think that should fix the problem. If it does not, you have a defective receiver

Jeff
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