Yamaha YPAO Produces Inferior Listening Environment - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 57 Old 10-05-2010, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubrow View Post

Ah, well, I guess we've now come full circle and I have to acknowledge if other folks are getting reasonable results from YPAO with the single-point setup, then there must be some...ah...acoustical anomalies that are giving YPAO fits, as rdgrimes suggested days ago. Well, I'll just have to make do.

I'm still experimenting with center channel speaker placement. Sound is improved, but not quite "there."

Thanks,
Mike

I think that if auto-setup systems like YPAO have any shortcomings it's that they have led us to believe that there is such a thing as a one-click solution to perfect setup. Or than all inadequacies in speakers or room can be "fixed" by the AVR. You might be surprised how little it takes to abate room issues or at least reduce them to a point where YPAO can compensate. Keep making small adjustments and be patient, give yourself time to adjust to changes.
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post #32 of 57 Old 10-05-2010, 08:57 AM
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Unfortunately I have the RX-V2065, which only offers a single point calibration. Otherwise I would have definitely done it on every seat in the house :P

FWIW it only did -1.0 db on the sub, distance was about 14 ft compared to the mains 11 ft despite them being right next to each other. I bumped it up to +0.5, adjusted the distance a little and things sound great so far.
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post #33 of 57 Old 10-05-2010, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I think that if auto-setup systems like YPAO have any shortcomings it's that they have led us to believe that there is such a thing as a one-click solution to perfect setup. Or than all inadequacies in speakers or room can be "fixed" by the AVR. You might be surprised how little it takes to abate room issues or at least reduce them to a point where YPAO can compensate. Keep making small adjustments and be patient, give yourself time to adjust to changes.

It is pertinent to note that Room EQ softwares systems are not perfect..
Even Yamaha YPAO which was 1 of the first has been refined at least 4 times times since its introduction. Its early versions often told the user his loudspeaker was out-of-phase when it was really phased correctly and the YPAO software was unable to tell the differences for room reflections..

When we do an install, we first run the noise sequencer manually using an SPL
meter, setting the loudspeaker specs manually and then monitor closely the sound stage..

If some EQ is required then we add as little as possible since the THD can rapidly increase here.. Our objective is to get the room and loudspeakers to sound as neutral as possible so that any tonal compensation is to help optimize the source material as it may be a little deficient in bass or mid-range....

Just my $0.02..
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post #34 of 57 Old 10-05-2010, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOAMattD View Post

Unfortunately I have the RX-V2065, which only offers a single point calibration. Otherwise I would have definitely done it on every seat in the house :P

Multi-point setup is a trade-off too. There can only be ONE sweet spot. Especially where LF response has null points in the room.
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post #35 of 57 Old 10-07-2010, 07:58 PM
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With the mic auto setup, and having sub on back wall ( opposite of mains), does one set sub to 180 degrees or 0 degrees. I ask because does the mic correct for phase on sub? If so do you keep sub set to 0 degrees and mic does rest?
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post #36 of 57 Old 10-08-2010, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post

With the mic auto setup, and having sub on back wall ( opposite of mains), does one set sub to 180 degrees or 0 degrees. I ask because does the mic correct for phase on sub? If so do you keep sub set to 0 degrees and mic does rest?

Leave it at 0.
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post #37 of 57 Old 04-14-2011, 06:45 AM
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Any definitive solution to this problem since last year? I just set up my A2000 and noted the same problem, especially the center channel sounding really odd--really flat/hollow sounding. I've only done the auto single point YPAO setup, so I'm going to redo with multipoint YPAO or even just manual, but wanted to see if there were pointers to maximize the results.

Thanks!
Todd
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post #38 of 57 Old 04-14-2011, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drtoddwest View Post

Any definitive solution to this problem since last year? I just set up my A2000 and noted the same problem, especially the center channel sounding really odd--really flat/hollow sounding. I've only done the auto single point YPAO setup, so I'm going to redo with multipoint YPAO or even just manual, but wanted to see if there were pointers to maximize the results.

Thanks!
Todd

Good luck. I have a RX-Z11 and never got the YPAO to do anything satisfactory for me. I ended up borrowing a spectrum analyzer and used test tones to set mine manually. The results were far better, in my opinion.

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post #39 of 57 Old 04-19-2011, 07:35 PM
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The same here. I ended using an iPhone/iPad app to get the speakers balance. The only time I used ypao was to make goodman magnums have the same sonic profile as my focal chorus 800's
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post #40 of 57 Old 10-10-2012, 09:34 AM
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Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the discussion, it helped me a lot to finally come to a conclusion that YAMAHA YPAO is a crap

I have YAMAHA RX-V673 and I have been trying to set it up for optimal results but failed

I tried YPAO many times and then tweaking manually but no found satifactory results

Can somebody help me and provide me the Parameter EQ values for the optimal settings?

Appriciate you help

Thanks
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post #41 of 57 Old 10-10-2012, 12:08 PM
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Despite NUMEROUS attempts, I could never find settings with YPAO that were satisfactory with my RX-Z11. I ended up buying an old-fashioned analog equalizer with slider scontrols for my main channels and set the center/surround speakers to match the timbre of the mains as close as possible. The results were far better, in my opinion.

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post #42 of 57 Old 10-11-2012, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubrow View Post

Based on the advice in this thread, I thought I'd give YPAO one more chance. To help others confounded by the process as I was (am?), I thought I'd post my current conclusions:
[*] If you are going to use YPAO, you must use multiple positions to get acceptable results. I moved the mic around the listening area (i.e. my living room) until all 8 positions were filled. Result: much more accurate settings for distance (sub was now 14 ft away instead of 25 ft as originally calibrated) and speaker size (front/center set to Large, surrounds set to small. I'm going to set all speakers to small, but for music setting the mains to Large does seem to offer a bit richer sound).
[*] I cycled through the YPAO settings and found that 'flat' sounds the best to my ears. YMMV.
[*] That said, for 2-channel stereo, 'Pure Direct' was hands down the best-sounding choice. (Doesn't Pure Direct turn off the PEQ settings?) Imaging was excellent--from the listening position, I would have sworn the center channel speaker was on...and I would have been wrong! 'Straight' was a little better than 2-channel, but both seemed to have less clarity and vibrance than Pure Direct.
[*] 7-channel stereo sounds pretty darn good with the new YPAO settings. Better than my SPL meter? Impossible to say, because I wasn't doing a double-blind test. But it was certainly a very enjoyable listening environment.
[*] For movies, center channel dialog still sounds "off" to me, like the actors are talking in a cave (i.e. a little bit of an echo). I'm going to try moving the center speaker which will hopefully correct the problem, though of course I will need to recalibrate.




So, except for the center channel, I'm pretty happy with the setup. Unfortunately, for home theater use, that's a pretty big exception. Hopefully, I can get it cleared up.


Thanks all for the tips and encouragement,

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by drtoddwest View Post

Any definitive solution to this problem since last year? I just set up my A2000 and noted the same problem, especially the center channel sounding really odd--really flat/hollow sounding. I've only done the auto single point YPAO setup, so I'm going to redo with multipoint YPAO or even just manual, but wanted to see if there were pointers to maximize the results.


Thanks!

Todd

I had an HTR-7065 for a bit(took it back to Costco and got a Pioneer SC-1222-K) and I also had issues with the center channel having an echo, so after turning off the YPAO parametric equalizer, that mostly got rid of it.

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post #43 of 57 Old 03-28-2013, 12:19 AM
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Dear friends,

I have Yamaha RX-V667 & have not found best way to caliber parametric equalizer.I just read that YAPO can be run with different settings & all results are saved independently.
So is it true with 667 too?ie.I can 1st select "FLAT" & then run YAPO, try "Natural" & save results again.
So can I select between two(total 4) & get sound difference?

Pls. let me know to use parametric equalizers.
Also I checked manual settings & there are few more options other than equalizers,some thing like Q gain so so.
So how to use them?

Pls. guide me.
Thanks.
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post #44 of 57 Old 03-28-2013, 06:52 AM
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You just run YPAO once and it saves settings for all the modes. To switch YPAO modes you then just go into the Manual Setup menu and select Parametric EQ, and choose Manual, Flat, Front, Natural or Through (Through means the EQ is disabled).

I would compare the 3 YPAO modes and also try Through. Manual is only useful if you know what it is about the current sound that you want to improve, it's not really a good idea to play with the manual EQ settings unless you know what you are doing. (i.e. exactly what problem you are trying to correct).

After running YPAO you should also make sure all your speakers are set to SMALL, that the bass crossover frequency seems reasonable, and change the subwoofer level up or down if you want more or less bass.
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post #45 of 57 Old 03-28-2013, 08:49 PM
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I recently purchased a yamaha RX-A3020 to replace my DENON 4311CI. YPAO with 8-point position correction is great and found it better than Audyssey XT32 on my previous DENON.

I thought that bass was weak after an audyssey correction but smooth and tight with YPAO.
ThecRX-A3020 has a "DALOGUE ADJUST" setting which significantly improves the centre channel. As one who has done a 32 -position with Audyssey and 8-position correction with YPAO, my personal preference is the latter.
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post #46 of 57 Old 08-26-2013, 03:39 AM
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Making adjustments on my rxv671 have been driving me nuts... First set everything up manually, distance, sound, used a sound pressure meter matched all speakers, found the perfect spot for my sub and what was lacking was clarity from my center channel. I tried every possible setting on the reciever and still center channel was muffeled. My wife was yelling at my last night, her voice was piercing my ears, i went and looked up sound levels for the human voice, found out the human voice ranges feom 500hz-2000hz, so i ran ypao copied the settings over to manual, cleared out the center channel and manually adjusted the bands and frequencies, +1.5 on 500hz, 1000hz, and 2000hz and BOOM sound was great, you can hear kenny powers low tones and high tones clearly, words where poping right out the speaker, you can hear actors breathing from there nose. There are other options in the manual e.q. settings I dont understand like the q option, i will do some research and try to tweak. Anyways I hope this helps anyone trying to get clarity from the center channel.....
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post #47 of 57 Old 02-24-2015, 12:38 PM
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Hi,
I am new member.
I tried a lot during the last weeks to use YPAO (Yam RX-V773).
My firmware version was 1.22. I finally updated to 1.85 version. Yam official site say little on the improvement (something about streaming music site). I assure you, 1.85 changes something in YPAO too because, now I have something coherent to work with. I do not how to use REW but, finally, this little toy does something interesting.
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post #48 of 57 Old 03-06-2015, 12:04 PM
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I have a RX-V1800 that has optimized two rooms in two diiferent homes with excellent results. The one thing I do is set all my speakers to small and skip the speaker size check.

I just picked up an RX-V1500 in mint condition for $100 to replace an old Technics AVR. I'm hoping YPAO in the 1500 model is the same as in my 1800.
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post #49 of 57 Old 03-06-2015, 06:33 PM
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^ A quick look at the manual suggests YPAO is somewhat different on the 1500. No Natural setting but some others instead. I guess it's 10 years since the 1500 was released—you don't get 8 S-video inputs these days!
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post #50 of 57 Old 05-14-2015, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docray1 View Post
I have a Yamaha RX-Z11 and experienced exactly the same results with the YPAO and my system. I tried all sorts of "tweaks" and then finally disregarded YPAO entirely. I found far better results with my old-fashioned sound meter, a spectrum analyzer and especially my ears!
Exactly WHY I will never again own a receiver that offers room correction, but will not allow you to correct the "correction" manually.
The Pioneer receivers with the Advanced or Pro Versions of Pioneer's MCACC let you adjust the "room corrected" settings it comes up with MANUALLY, and by ear!
And, all by remote control too.
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post #51 of 57 Old 05-15-2015, 05:42 AM
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^ Yamaha's YPAO does allow you to copy the automatic EQ settings and change them manually.
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post #52 of 57 Old 05-15-2015, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
^ Yamaha's YPAO does allow you to copy the automatic EQ settings and change them manually.
I agree. My standard setup procedure for my RX-A2010 is to run YPAO to get it fairly close and then tweak the settings manually using a SPL Meter and my ears.
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post #53 of 57 Old 05-15-2015, 06:46 AM
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This is good to know I am not Anti Yamaha, and once owned a Yamaha RX V1 Flagship receiver, I wish I had never sold
It did not have HDMI, but it was by far the best sounding receiver I ever used, on my old B&W Matrix 801 Speakers.
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post #54 of 57 Old 05-16-2015, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FargateOne View Post
Hi,
I am new member.
I tried a lot during the last weeks to use YPAO (Yam RX-V773).
My firmware version was 1.22. I finally updated to 1.85 version. Yam official site say little on the improvement (something about streaming music site). I assure you, 1.85 changes something in YPAO too because, now I have something coherent to work with. I do not how to use REW but, finally, this little toy does something interesting.
That's interesting, because the last time I spoke with a Yamaha tech they seemed completely uninterested in improving YPAO or in denial that it needed such. I think YPAO is probably better than nothing, gets you part way there as others have stated, but I've always found similar lower fidelity room correction, like MultiEQ to be extremely inconsistent and similarly unreliable. Even with basic XT I never got an accurate sub calibration and seemed to always get slightly different elsewhere, every time I ran it. I'm still using whatever firmware came on my Yamaha 3030 about a year ago when I bought it, but I picked up a Marantz 7008 with XT32 when it was on close out the other week and have almost complete confidence in what XT32 did. Unfortunately, the Marantz seems like a bare-boned receiver compared to the Yamaha with lesser build quality on top. But the improvement of XT32 over YPAO seems almost profound, definitely not to be dismissed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lflorack View Post
I agree. My standard setup procedure for my RX-A2010 is to run YPAO to get it fairly close and then tweak the settings manually using a SPL Meter and my ears.
Yeah, I don't know about Pioneer and HK, but Yamaha absolutely kills Marantz and Denon in terms of tweakability and features, especially for music. They seem to take a lot of pride in their music heritage. For stereo, lossy multichannel, or just poorly mixed music, there's no contest. But some of ther more useful movie tweaks are dramatically better too. For example: Marantz's notion of dialogue enhancement is a simple center channel boost, which disrupts calibration and can't even be used with straight playback of stereo or two-channel mono sources. Yamaha on the other hand has dialogue enhancement that appears more effectively geared toward tweaking the range of frequencies voices are most found in for better clarity. If Yamaha would just abandon YPAO (or put the same amount of R&D into it that Audyssey has) and switch to Audyssey XT32, I don't think there'd even be any debate on best receiver brand.

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post #55 of 57 Old 05-16-2015, 11:41 AM
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With my 671 it applies +6dB at 125hz. Which I don't want. When I view the L/R there is hardly any correction going on. I can't tell the difference when it's enabled/disabled.

I went into custom and set the rear speakers to flat.

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post #56 of 57 Old 05-16-2015, 11:51 AM
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I am getting the RX-V677 for its Internet Radio and its 7-band PEQ. Although I wish the PEQ had more than +6 dB available, I feel that I can still dial in anything with it.

For me the YPAO is just a curiosity accessory, especially as you can Copy its settings into the PEQ and then go from there, or start over at Go.
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post #57 of 57 Old 05-16-2015, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by mdubrow

Ah, well, I guess we've now come full circle and I have to acknowledge if other folks are getting reasonable results from YPAO with the single-point setup, then there must be some...ah...acoustical anomalies that are giving YPAO fits, as rdgrimes suggested days ago. Well, I'll just have to make do.

I'm still experimenting with center channel speaker placement. Sound is improved, but not quite "there."

Thanks,
Mike


I think that if auto-setup systems like YPAO have any shortcomings it's that they have led us to believe that there is such a thing as a one-click solution to perfect setup. Or than all inadequacies in speakers or room can be "fixed" by the AVR. You might be surprised how little it takes to abate room issues or at least reduce them to a point where YPAO can compensate. Keep making small adjustments and be patient, give yourself time to adjust to changes.

I think that might be more a shortcoming of YPAO than Audyssey. XT32 is MUCH more effective, not to mention more accurate. I have far more confidence in the auto results from our Marantz 7008 than our Yamaha 3030, but it's hard to give up the almost vast manual tweakability of the Yamaha. And, sadly, I think I might have more confidence in the 3030's build quality/reliability than the 7008.

But you're right in realizing that EQ, auto or manual, can't fix a particularly troublesome room as well as treatments can. You're always going to get far better results with room treatments and then use EQ for the fine tuning, final polishing, as it were. One problem with single point measurements is that you're only calibrating for the sweetspot. Calibrating for the entire room, your guests enjoy a better experience too. That's something else I noticed with Audyssey, the chairs to the left and right of the sweetspot sound just as good as the sweetspot. That wasn't the case with YPAO, even though I took all 6 or 8 measurements.

But the room is going to be a huge factor in your finished results. Ours is a very small, three seater, spare bedroom renovation, but one that has been treated with meticulously placed diffusion and absorption on all surfaces.

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