Yamaha YPAO Produces Inferior Listening Environment - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 04:22 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mdubrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi, it's been quite awhile since I last posted here, but I could use some help / insight. I apologize for the long post, but I wanted to give a complete account. I recently picked up a Yamaha RX-A2000 to replace a deceased HK AVR-7200 (leaking capacitors ). Connected everything, ran YPAO, popped in an SACD, and everything sounded great. Of course, SACD uses the player's sound processing, not the receiver's.

So, I switched to a movie, and the results weren't merely disappointing, they were completely unacceptable. There was no bass (I subsequently saw that YPAO had adjusted the subwoofer to be -6!), the surrounds were barely audible, and the center channel sounded hollow. Only the mains sounded reasonable, but the soundstage was still very narrow. (To emphasize, the only change in the system was the receiver; DVD/Universal Player and speakers were the same. I have a 5.1 speaker setup--3 Sapphire XL's across the front, and 2 Emeralds for the surround.)

I wondered if my receiver was defective, so I reset my receiver to factory defaults, pulled out my trusty Radio Shack SPL meter and decided to dial in the settings manually, first setting the speaker distances, then setting all speakers set to Small with an 80 hz subwoofer crossover (which I think is what I had used with the HK receiver), setting the PEQ to 'Through' (i.e. disabling the equalizer), then playing the test tones and making adjustments until all 5 speakers were at or around the same level (and the sub was in the ballpark). After manually setting up the speakers, things were MUCH better. The sound stage was as wide as I remembered it with the HK, dialog through the center channel sounded much more natural, and the surrounds and subwoofer were now properly integrated.

Before I went with Yamaha, I had read that people generally liked the Yamaha YPAO auto setup routine, comparing it favorably to the Audyssey system that Denon and others use. Most of the posts that I read suggested starting with YPAO and tweaking the settings from there. Yet my experience with YPAO was decidedly negative--so much so that I ended up disabling it. So, is something wrong with my receiver's YPAO processing (in which case I'd want to swap the unit out while I'm still allowed to by the store), or was it user error? Or neither, and YPAO is dodgier than I was led to believe?

Thanks for your help,
Mike
mdubrow is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 05:35 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rdgrimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 16,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked: 197
YPAO is nothing but a tool, it provides a good starting point. The results depends on the skill and knowledge of the user. There are several errors evident in your post.

1st, you need to select the appropriate EQ curve before running YPAO. The sub's gain needs to be set so that YPAO ends up setting that channel close to "0", your -6db result indicated that you need to turn the sub down and re-run. It could also indicate a room mode that needs attention. Ideally, ALL channels should be close to 0db after running YPAO.

YPAO is not a substitute for room treatments and adjustments, it's tool to help that process. Distances and levels may need tweaking, but widely disparate results for either are indicating a room issue.
Tony_Montana and PRBR like this.
rdgrimes is online now  
post #3 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 06:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
dakar80124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver Colo area
Posts: 704
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
did you check the settings after YPAO? It should show you the speaker distances and levels and it should give an idea if they looked right. Also, did you use multi-listening positions? You can set 3 angles and it gives a listing of different room setups to choose. Their new YPAO is more sophisticated than previous ones I've had. Also subs may need adjustment and thats common with audyssey too.
It may be that you have a "live" room and YPAO is trying to tone it down for you.
dakar80124 is offline  
post #4 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mdubrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
rdgrimes, Thanks for your reply. I have a few follow-up questions based on your comments:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

1st, you need to select the appropriate EQ curve before running YPAO.

Really? I thought that YPAO did this as part of the calibration process, i.e. adjusting the equalizer settings based on the specific characteristics of the room. How would I go about choosing among the different equalizer choices (Flat, Front, Natural, and Through)? Obviously, I can cycle through them after running YPAO and noting the difference in sound. FYI, YPAO chose 'Flat'; I set this to 'Through'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

The sub's gain needs to be set so that YPAO ends up setting that channel close to "0", your -6db result indicated that you need to turn the sub down and re-run.

Not sure that I agree with this assessment, since YPAO basically cut all bass output from the system (in other words, -6 should really have been more like -1 or 0). I have read that YPAO has trouble with subwoofers, though. I guess I was more surprised that it also cut out the surround speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

It could also indicate a room mode that needs attention. Ideally, ALL channels should be close to 0db after running YPAO. YPAO is not a substitute for room treatments and adjustments, it's tool to help that process. Distances and levels may need tweaking, but widely disparate results for either are indicating a room issue.

Well, this is entirely possible, but there's nothing I can do about the room itself. We live in an apartment, so our "home theater" is our living room. I guess the furniture confused the YPAO? If that's the case, then I'm satisfied dialing in the settings manually (which I have now done, and all of my speakers are within +/- 3) and leaving well enough alone. I did want some reassurance the unit wasn't defective.

To be fair, YPAO did a reasonable job with the distances to the speakers (except the subwoofer), but the levels were off and even the quality of the sound was odd--especially the center channel speaker. I only ran YPAO from one location. Would I have gotten better results if I had used multiple locations?

Thanks,
Mike
mdubrow is offline  
post #5 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 07:20 AM
Advanced Member
 
Docray1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 523
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I have a Yamaha RX-Z11 and experienced exactly the same results with the YPAO and my system. I tried all sorts of "tweaks" and then finally disregarded YPAO entirely. I found far better results with my old-fashioned sound meter, a spectrum analyzer and especially my ears!

Docray1
Docray1 is offline  
post #6 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 08:26 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rdgrimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 16,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubrow View Post

Well, this is entirely possible, but there's nothing I can do about the room itself.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. There's lots you can do.
Quote:


I did want some reassurance the unit wasn't defective.

To be fair, YPAO did a reasonable job with the distances to the speakers (except the subwoofer), but the levels were off and even the quality of the sound was odd--especially the center channel speaker. I only ran YPAO from one location. Would I have gotten better results if I had used multiple locations?

Thanks,
Mike

Again, it's up to you to take the time to learn what you and YPAO are doing and use it to your best advantage. If the levels are not coming out "right", there's a reason and that is usually due to the room and speaker placements.
rdgrimes is online now  
post #7 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 08:46 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,610
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Just to clarify YPAO, it will create multiple EQ profiles for you, which you can select from. At least that's the way it usually works. grimes who is usually right, is a bit wrong in this case, I think.

The main reason, IMO, to want trims close to 0 dB is to reduce the chance of pre amp clipping. I have an inefficient center channel speaker which requires a pretty high boost. Not much can be done with that, really. I could adjust everything down to reduce boost.

For a powered sub, it should not matter much if the setting is -6 dB, I think.

"But this one goes up to 11"
MichaelJHuman is offline  
post #8 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 08:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
phantom52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 7,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Could this also be due to the way you have the initial setting to either "flat",natural, or the other one I can't remember at this time. These settings made a big difference with the way my 2600 was setup. The good thing is that at least the Yamaha's give you the option of saving different settings with their memories. I'd store the one the OP is using right now in memory 1, then change the setting to natural and rerun YPAO and see if there is indeed a difference. Store in memory 2 and so on. I think this one of the reasons I prefer YPAO over some of the other EQ programs because of its ability to store different settings. One touch of a button on the remote to really test out different EQ programs.
phantom52 is online now  
post #9 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 08:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
kriktsemaj99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 5,883
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubrow View Post

To be fair, YPAO did a reasonable job with the distances to the speakers (except the subwoofer), but the levels were off and even the quality of the sound was odd--especially the center channel speaker. I only ran YPAO from one location. Would I have gotten better results if I had used multiple locations?

I wasn't impressed at all with the single-point YPAO on my RX-V1800, but the newer multi-point version is supposed to be better, And the A2000 promises more improvements still. So I would definitely try using multiple locations. And if it sets any of your speakers to LARGE, set them back to SMALL with a suitable crossover.

For the sub, just turn up the level afterwards to where you like it. Since most of us listen 10dB or more below reference level, calibrating the sub to match the other speakers is not really the right thing to do anyway, it will result in an apparent lack of bass.

And yes, YPAO on the last few generations of Yamaha doesn't require that you select the mode before running it, it calculates the filter settings for all modes and you can switch between them afterwards to see which you prefer. There's no need to worry about where the speaker levels end up either, as long as none of them are at the +/- 10dB limit.

BTW I wouldn't consider YPAO superior to Audyssey, except that it will let you tweak the setttings afterwards which some would consider a big advantage.
kriktsemaj99 is online now  
post #10 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 08:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
kriktsemaj99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 5,883
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

The good thing is that at least the Yamaha's give you the option of saving different settings with their memories.

Unfortunately that really useful feature is gone on the new models. The "scene" functionality is a partial replacement for it, but not as flexible as the old system memories. As far as I can tell from the manual you might be able to store two different equalizer setups as speaker "patterns", but before we had 6 system memories. You can also switch between YPAO modes now without having to store them in system memories first, so that helps a bit.
kriktsemaj99 is online now  
post #11 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 09:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
phantom52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 7,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Unfortunately that really useful feature is gone on the new models. The "scene" functionality is a partial replacement for it, but not as flexible as the old system memories. As far as I can tell from the manual you might be able to store two different equalizer setups as speaker "patterns", but before we had 6 system memories. You can also switch between YPAO modes now without having to store them in system memories first, so that helps a bit.

Well you can tell I have not used a Yamaha since my 2600 days. I found that feature to be one of the best available, especially for us "tweakers". That Aventage line sure does look good though. Was really getting the "hots" for a Pioneer Elite SC35, but now that A2000/3000 looks very interesting. Yamaha fan, always was, always will be.
phantom52 is online now  
post #12 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 09:10 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,610
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 89
They removed memories? Wow, that's dumb.

"But this one goes up to 11"
MichaelJHuman is offline  
post #13 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mdubrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
A lot of good advice here, thanks everyone! Just a few comments / clarifications:

rdgrimes: What I meant was that there's nothing I can do about the room , as the furnishings are my wife's department. Still, I have no major complaints about the room, as I always thought our system sounded pretty darn good when the 7200 was at the heart. (Closing the window treatments helps a lot to eliminate harshness.)

MichaelJHuman: Thanks, your interpretation of how YPAO works is consistent with my take on it (at least based on the A2000's manual). Avoiding clipping is one of my top concerns with calibration, but I believe staying within 3 db's will keep me safe (especially since we don't come anywhere close to 'reference' levels).

kriktsemaj99: Good point about the multiple location feature of YPAO which I didn't use. In my defense, I didn't really understand what it did before (I didn't say I had a good defense). It's possible that if I had selected a number of points around our sofa, that may have helped, for example, to widen the sound stage.

From the commentary here, I am concluding that the receiver is probably fine, but my use of YPAO left a lot to be desired. That said, for the time being I'm inclined to keep my manual settings rather. With my current settings I have a wide soundstage, sound is clear if a bit brighter than with the HK (but by no means harsh), and I can hear details in the surrounds that I hadn't heard before, which is pretty darn cool.

Mike
mdubrow is offline  
post #14 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 01:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
WiWavelength's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,778
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubrow View Post

To be fair, YPAO did a reasonable job with the distances to the speakers (except the subwoofer)...

No, YPAO probably measured the "distance" to your sub very accurately. Distance compensation is actually time alignment. And time alignment has to take into account physical distance, as well as any other source(s) of latency (e.g. DSP, crossover, etc.).

AJ
WiWavelength is online now  
post #15 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 01:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
M Code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Joshua Tree, CA
Posts: 9,805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubrow View Post

Hi, it's been quite awhile since I last posted here, but I could use some help / insight. I apologize for the long post, but I wanted to give a complete account. I recently picked up a Yamaha RX-A2000 to replace a deceased HK AVR-7200 (leaking capacitors ). Connected everything, ran YPAO, popped in an SACD, and everything sounded great. Of course, SACD uses the player's sound processing, not the receiver's.

So, I switched to a movie, and the results weren't merely disappointing, they were completely unacceptable. There was no bass (I subsequently saw that YPAO had adjusted the subwoofer to be -6!), the surrounds were barely audible, and the center channel sounded hollow. Only the mains sounded reasonable, but the soundstage was still very narrow. (To emphasize, the only change in the system was the receiver; DVD/Universal Player and speakers were the same. I have a 5.1 speaker setup--3 Sapphire XL's across the front, and 2 Emeralds for the surround.)

I wondered if my receiver was defective, so I reset my receiver to factory defaults, pulled out my trusty Radio Shack SPL meter and decided to dial in the settings manually, first setting the speaker distances, then setting all speakers set to Small with an 80 hz subwoofer crossover (which I think is what I had used with the HK receiver), setting the PEQ to 'Through' (i.e. disabling the equalizer), then playing the test tones and making adjustments until all 5 speakers were at or around the same level (and the sub was in the ballpark). After manually setting up the speakers, things were MUCH better. The sound stage was as wide as I remembered it with the HK, dialog through the center channel sounded much more natural, and the surrounds and subwoofer were now properly integrated.

Before I went with Yamaha, I had read that people generally liked the Yamaha YPAO auto setup routine, comparing it favorably to the Audyssey system that Denon and others use. Most of the posts that I read suggested starting with YPAO and tweaking the settings from there. Yet my experience with YPAO was decidedly negative--so much so that I ended up disabling it. So, is something wrong with my receiver's YPAO processing (in which case I'd want to swap the unit out while I'm still allowed to by the store), or was it user error? Or neither, and YPAO is dodgier than I was led to believe?

Thanks for your help,
Mike

Mike..
Some suggested reading..
Check out the September issue of Sound & Vision, there is an excellant article about room acoustics by Brent Butterworth lifting many things from Dr.Toole's book.

After absorbing the above, I would go back to basics..
Reset the AVR and set things up manually without activating YPAO..
Also extend the loudspeaker wires so that you can trial/error for various loudspeaker positions.

Next take a listen..
Then go forward, based upon you hear...

Just my $0.02...
M Code is online now  
post #16 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 03:34 PM
Member
 
therealjoeblow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I ran YPAO on my HTR-6140 (=RX-V463) when I first got it and it sounded like crap, exactly as you described (no bass, weak surrounds and hollow center).

I reset to factory, then used my trusty ears to tweak everything over several days, and it sounds *fantastic*. No machine or meter can tell you what is going to sound good, only your ears can do that...

Just my $0.02

Cheers
The REAL Joe
therealjoeblow is offline  
post #17 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 05:26 PM
Member
 
borntoboggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I haven't calibrated an RXA2000 but I remember with the older product (RXV3900) you had to be very specific in the sub-woofer setup before you calibrated using the YPAO. Subwoofer should be set to 11-12 O'Clock on the sub's volume and cross over set as high as possible (I usually had it dialed in at 140Hz or higher) before you use the microphone setup.

My best guess is you didn't have the subwoofer setup properly to begin with when using the mic, and the calibration software dumbed down the setting. The mic works on a parametric EQ setting which are things you can't do via an SPL and therefore it should sound better using the mic then not (as a foundation for further tweaking). If your system sounds bright you should probably select the 'Natural' PEQ setting which rolls off the high frequency's much like Audyssey's house curve. If you want to spice things up you could then select 'FLAT', which I did with soft dome tweeters when using with Dynaudio speakers.

I have had a chance to hear a properly calibrated RXA2000 at a dealers in Canada and it had incredibly powerful but clean, fast bass.
borntoboggie is offline  
post #18 of 46 Old 09-29-2010, 05:26 PM
Member
 
borntoboggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
double post.
borntoboggie is offline  
post #19 of 46 Old 09-30-2010, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mdubrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
M Code, Thanks for the pointer to the article. I'll see if I can check it out. Meantime, I spent some time yesterday evening listening to music (for fun, I used the 7-channel stereo mode, though normally I'd use 2-channel), and I am mostly satisfied with my manual calibration.

borntoboggie, Thanks, I checked and I see that my subwoofer settings are not in sync with Yamaha's advice (nor as it turns out are they consistent with the sub manufacturer's recommendations, as I discovered after reading my subwoofer manual for the first time in years). At some point, I will have to tweak the sub's settings and recalibrate. But I still doubt I'll bother with YPAO.

Thanks to all for your advice! And as M Code says, I shall now go forward!

Mike
mdubrow is offline  
post #20 of 46 Old 09-30-2010, 04:35 PM
Member
 
borntoboggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I would try and recalibrate. You're making a huge mistake not using the PEQ, there is stuff you're totally screwing up by not taking advantage of the Parametric EQ, it tames room response, the RXA2000 has an even better EQ then my old 3900 as it works in both the time domain and frequency domain providing a much flatter response. Give it a shot. Worse case you could always do the mic settings then select 'through' by-passing the YPAO PEQ Select.
borntoboggie is offline  
post #21 of 46 Old 10-01-2010, 08:09 AM
Senior Member
 
NOAMattD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 365
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
So I have a question, I'm getting a subwoofer tomorrow for what will be a 2.1 setup. Should I even bother with YPAO at all and just try to level match it to the mains by ear? Or should I still run YPAO after that? I don't have an SPL meter and I can't do any room treatments/bass traps etc.
NOAMattD is offline  
post #22 of 46 Old 10-01-2010, 08:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
phantom52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 7,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOAMattD View Post

So I have a question, I'm getting a subwoofer tomorrow for what will be a 2.1 setup. Should I even bother with YPAO at all and just try to level match it to the mains by ear? Or should I still run YPAO after that? I don't have an SPL meter and I can't do any room treatments/bass traps etc.

Can't hurt to run it. It will detect how many speakers are connected. Just be sure to set up that sub properly first. Don't like it, you can change it.
phantom52 is online now  
post #23 of 46 Old 10-04-2010, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mdubrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Based on the advice in this thread, I thought I'd give YPAO one more chance. To help others confounded by the process as I was (am?), I thought I'd post my current conclusions:
  1. If you are going to use YPAO, you must use multiple positions to get acceptable results. I moved the mic around the listening area (i.e. my living room) until all 8 positions were filled. Result: much more accurate settings for distance (sub was now 14 ft away instead of 25 ft as originally calibrated) and speaker size (front/center set to Large, surrounds set to small. I'm going to set all speakers to small, but for music setting the mains to Large does seem to offer a bit richer sound).
  2. I cycled through the YPAO settings and found that 'flat' sounds the best to my ears. YMMV.
  3. That said, for 2-channel stereo, 'Pure Direct' was hands down the best-sounding choice. (Doesn't Pure Direct turn off the PEQ settings?) Imaging was excellent--from the listening position, I would have sworn the center channel speaker was on...and I would have been wrong! 'Straight' was a little better than 2-channel, but both seemed to have less clarity and vibrance than Pure Direct.
  4. 7-channel stereo sounds pretty darn good with the new YPAO settings. Better than my SPL meter? Impossible to say, because I wasn't doing a double-blind test. But it was certainly a very enjoyable listening environment.
  5. For movies, center channel dialog still sounds "off" to me, like the actors are talking in a cave (i.e. a little bit of an echo). I'm going to try moving the center speaker which will hopefully correct the problem, though of course I will need to recalibrate.

So, except for the center channel, I'm pretty happy with the setup. Unfortunately, for home theater use, that's a pretty big exception. Hopefully, I can get it cleared up.

Thanks all for the tips and encouragement,
Mike
mdubrow is offline  
post #24 of 46 Old 10-04-2010, 02:29 PM
Member
 
borntoboggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The multiple positions should only be used if you have seating which is far apart, I'm not sure what setup you have but if you're happy with the performance then kudo's. With regards to the subwoofe measurement...25ft might be accurate when you take into account phase, if you positioned the microphone in numerous places then the program will 'split the difference'.

When watching movies I'd suggest straight or movie standard. I use to use very few DSP modes but Movie Standard and Movie Adventure were my favorites (aside for non-DSP straight mode).
borntoboggie is offline  
post #25 of 46 Old 10-04-2010, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mdubrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
borntoboogie, My microphone positioning was inspired by the diagram in the A2000's manual (page 43) which, among other positioning tips, shows moving the mic from seat to seat on the same sofa.

For movies, I have been using Standard up to now. I like your suggestion to try 'Straight' or another DSP setting (maybe Dolby PLII Movie). Will give it a go.

Thanks,
Mike
mdubrow is offline  
post #26 of 46 Old 10-04-2010, 03:14 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,610
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 89
The distance is nothing but a time delay. I thought that was explained before. So 25ft could be correct for the single position.

"But this one goes up to 11"
MichaelJHuman is offline  
post #27 of 46 Old 10-04-2010, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mdubrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Michael, Several folks have mentioned that (including yourself), and that may be part of the explanation, but the fact is the single-point measurement also resulted in an adjustment of -6 for the sub and effectively no bass output while the multi-point measurement is -1 and good bass output. To paraphrase Groucho Marx, who am I going to believe, YPAO or my own ears?

Thanks,
Mike
mdubrow is offline  
post #28 of 46 Old 10-04-2010, 07:31 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,610
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubrow View Post

Michael, Several folks have mentioned that (including yourself), and that may be part of the explanation, but the fact is the single-point measurement also resulted in an adjustment of -6 for the sub and effectively no bass output while the multi-point measurement is -1 and good bass output. To paraphrase Groucho Marx, who am I going to believe, YPAO or my own ears?

Thanks,
Mike

I was only commenting on the the fact that the distance is a time delay. I make no other claims on how well YPAO works for YOU. I can only talk about how YPAO works in my system

"But this one goes up to 11"
MichaelJHuman is offline  
post #29 of 46 Old 10-04-2010, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mdubrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ah, well, I guess we've now come full circle and I have to acknowledge if other folks are getting reasonable results from YPAO with the single-point setup, then there must be some...ah...acoustical anomalies that are giving YPAO fits, as rdgrimes suggested days ago. Well, I'll just have to make do.

I'm still experimenting with center channel speaker placement. Sound is improved, but not quite "there."

Thanks,
Mike
mdubrow is offline  
post #30 of 46 Old 10-04-2010, 08:59 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MichaelJHuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 18,610
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 89
I'm sure it will pay off for you. Good luck.

"But this one goes up to 11"
MichaelJHuman is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off