pro logic IIz: honest review(s) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 10-19-2010, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I've read the entire Dolby Pro Logic IIz thread and am amazed by the amount of negativity regarding the new format, especially since nearly all of it seems to come from people who have never listened to it.
Therefore I've decided to start this thread. The goal is to have people post ONLY honest reviews of pl IIz BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

To begin, I will offer mine:
I've spent about a week playing around with IIz on my pioneer vsx-1020. Before I got my new receiver I watched a selection of blu-rays (Incredible Hulk, Dark Knight, Iron Man, Avatar, Sin City, Serenity, Transformers) which I thought might benefit from height effects. Then I re-watched them all with plIIz, switching it on and off repeatedly, listening with my eyes closed, re-watching the same scenes repeatedly with it on and then off, etc.

My honest conclusion: my system has never sounded better.

My plasma is wall mounted and I have high(ish) ceilings at about 10ft. My room is roughly 16ft wide x 14ft deep. Before I put in the heights my system sounded fantastic, even with my old denon avr-590, but with my 40" F-2s all the sound seemed to come from straight ahead, slightly below the screen. (This is one of the reasons I decided to try heights in the first place.) With the heights, my fronts sound like they are 10ft tall. Even when the height effect itself is subtle (i.e. there is no specific action coming from up high like a helicopter) IIz does an awesome job of making my entire front soundstage sound enormous. When there is a cool effect (a helicopter, rain, bullets whizzing overhead, etc) it's wonderful to hear it coming from up high.

An example: there's a scene at the end of the campus fight sequence in Incredible Hulk where a helicopter starts on screen and flies up and to the left, ending up offscreen. The heights capture it perfectly. You can hear the helicopter up there high on the left flying around. It's really cool. Another great one is Sin City. Much of the movie is filled with rain and it all starts up high and then fills the rest of the soundstage. In every blu-ray I've watched (they're listed above) there hasn't been a single scene where I haven't preferred having the heights on.

The best way to describe the height effect is that they make your fronts sound taller. If you have $1,000,000 12ft tall front speakers, or you have your fronts mounted high on the wall already, it's probably not worth getting heights. If, however, your set-up is more like mine with 40inch floor standers or even smaller fronts (especially if your screen is higher up) then the height effect will make your system sound like you have the million dollar twelve foot towers.

Would I buy a new receiver just to add heights?
Depends and how good your old receiver is and how good your speakers are. If you just got a new receiver that can handle DTS-HD MA and TrueHD, and if your speakers are solid, then you probably don't need to go chuck them in the garbage. If, however, you're leaning toward a new receiver (I just recently upgraded from entry level 5.1 to the vsx-1020) I would strongly recommend getting a receiver that has pro logic IIz and trying it out.

Would I suggest heights over surround back speakers?
In a word, yes. The only blu-ray I've heard with dedicated 7.1 is toy story 3, and yes it was cool, but I honestly feel that you gain more from having an awesome front soundstage as opposed to a little more detailed back soundstage. Our ability to hear is focused forward, so it makes sense to have more speakers in front of us than behind.

In conclusion, in my opinion, Dolby Pro Logic IIz is pretty damn awesome. It adds some serious size to the front soundstage and does a great job of blending everything together so you never notice anything unwanted coming from up high. I recommend it. Honestly.

(note: If anyone wants pictures of my set-up I will provide them. I set it up exactly as dolby suggested: front heights about 4ft directly above fronts and pointed slightly down toward the listener.)
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post #2 of 21 Old 10-19-2010, 02:40 PM
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I'm presently running a 9.1 system utilizing front height speakers and back surrounds. The front height channels are much more noticable that the back surrounds, but I'm keeping this configuration as I have no room for front wide speakers.

I use Dolby PL IIz and Audyssey DSX depending on the program material. Adding the front height speakers was well worth it to me, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat!

I recently listened to the Lionsgate Blu-ray remaster of CutThroat Island in 7.1 DTS-HD Master Audio. While the plot is juvenile the battle scene sound effects in DPL IIz are awesome, especially for a film that was originally released in 1995! Needless to say Master and Commander is another disc that really shows off IIz.

It seems that after a particular HT magazine panned IIz some folks (who probably don't even own a system using front height speakers) jumped on the bandwagon to add their two-cents. All I can say is consider the source before you criticize. DPL IIz might not be everyones cup of tea, but It's certainly worth giving it a careful audition. You might even like it
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post #3 of 21 Old 10-19-2010, 03:26 PM
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I get great height effects from my regular 5.1 setup. When I tried PLIIz and DSX height channels, I didn't hear much of a benefit. But I guess it all depends on the setup, speakers, positioning, room acoustics etc.

Here's a cut and paste from a review I did last December:-

Height Channels:-

I've been using surround back channels for the last three months but have found that they don't offer much benefit over 5.1. Probably because my room is fairly small (12ft by 22ft) and they were positioned close to the side surrounds. So I decided to re-position them as front heights instead to see if Dolby PLIIz or Audyssey DSX processing brings any benefits. The pic below shows how I positioned the height speakers. They are "Monitor Audio R225HD" which can be used horizontally as a centre speaker.



I mentioned above, the hassle of having to loop through the huge amount of sound modes with one button on the remote. I got round that problem by controlling the Onkyo via the network port. I was able to switch directly to the sound mode I wanted to try. I'll post more about this in a future update.

Black Snake Moan (DD 5.1):-
I watched the scene where Samuel L. Jackson plays his electric guitar in his shack and it starts raining. In native DD 5.1 mode, so no heights, the effect of the rain hitting the roof of his shack was very realistic. It really sounded as if it was coming from above and sounded just like it does when it rains on the plastic roof of my shed. Activating the heights in PLIIz mode didn't actually improve the sound much at all. The rain and thunder effects didn't change much. There was a slight change to his singing voice, I wouldn't say it was for the better though. Again, I didn't hear any noticable improvement to the sound when using DSX heights instead of PLIIz. The sound was great to start with and DSX heights didn't change much.

Blade Runner - (Dolby True HD):-
I thought this one would be good to test as it has a lot of height stuff in the sound. It practically rains all the way through the film and then you've got all the flying cars and hovering advertising things. In native Dolby True HD 5.1 mode it does sound very good and all the aerial effects come from where they should be in the sound stage. Activating the height channels doesn't really make much difference at all in either PLIIz or DSX mode.

Stereo Music:-
Nothing sounds better in surround than a bit of symphonic prog . So I put on "Collage - Heroes Cry", corny lyrics, but they are a Polish band so I guess you can forgive them that . It sounds fabulous in Stereo with the Audyssey EQ really opening up the front sound stage compared to Direct Stereo. Switching to PLII Music mode is stunning with the symphonic keyboards soaring up all around you. Using the heights in PLIIz didn't make that much difference compared to PLII Music. I noticed that the vocals were very slightly less focused with the heights activated. With Audyssey DSX, you have to matrix the sound up to 5.1 first. You could use DTS Neo:6 Music with DSX Heights but I tried Dolby PLII Music with DSX Heights. DSX didn't sound too good. The soundstage was moved towards the front and it was a bit heavy and leaden compared to the airy hi-fi sound from PLIIz. Out of the two height processing modes, PLIIz was far superior in my room with my speakers but I still preferred the regular 5.1 PLII Music mode.

So, in my room with my fairly decent 5.1 speakers, I didn't experience a greater sense of immersion by using front height speakers so they'll probably be coming back down at some point.

-------------------------------------

I still think getting the highest quality 5.1 setup is still the best way to get superior sound quality rather than a dozen average speakers around the room.
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post #4 of 21 Old 10-19-2010, 03:38 PM
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I have mentioned this in previous threads but it is worth repeating..
Height loudspeakers help to make the room work more smoothly & sonically with the soundstage, the crucial factor are their levels. Make sure these are kept on the conservative side not to hot, just enough to audiblly add to the soundstage. Also I prefer the Dolby IIZ over the DSX as well..

Just my $0.02..
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post #5 of 21 Old 11-06-2010, 02:54 AM
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Would B&W M1s be fine for front highs assuming an Onkyo SR608 AVR?
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post #6 of 21 Old 11-06-2010, 06:27 AM
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Quote:


If you have $1,000,000 12ft tall front speakers, or you have your fronts mounted high on the wall already, it's probably not worth getting heights.

What if people have < $1000 12ft tall speakers....would it still not be worth it to get heights??

Just pointing out that line arrays do not need to be $1mil There are some great options other for low $$

You do raise an interesting point though, I wonder if a line array will still benefit from height surround??? Im thinking they still would!

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post #7 of 21 Old 11-06-2010, 06:43 AM
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I have Martin Logan Vantages for mains, a Stage for enter and 4 Vistas for surrounds. I added 2 ML Motion speakers for the front heights mounted 4' above my mains. Two Descent i subs handle the bass. A 9.2 setup.

I use an Integra DTR-80.2 as a processor and to power the heights and surround backs. A Parasound Halo A51 powers the other 5 speakers.

I have used wides before, but I did not like how DSX spread the front stereo soundstage with certain movies making voiceovers sound like they were in a cave. DSX is definitely more dramatic and noticeable which is not always a good thing. What I like about PLIIz is it does not touch the front 3 channels; it only processes the surrounds.

It is relatively minor, but still noticeable enhancement just like PLIIx. Where the latter helps with imaging directly behind the listener, PLIIz helps pull ambiant effects forward, acutally filling in the sides of the listening position more than giving any directional height effect.

I always thought 5.1 sounds great if setup properly. If you like a little fuller surround effect, then adding surround backs will help and PLIIz heights just complete the package. Subtle, but pleasing is my review.
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post #8 of 21 Old 04-01-2011, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallnick View Post

An example: there's a scene at the end of the campus fight sequence in Incredible Hulk where a helicopter starts on screen and flies up and to the left, ending up offscreen. The heights capture it perfectly. You can hear the helicopter up there high on the left flying around. It's really cool. Another great one is Sin City. Much of the movie is filled with rain and it all starts up high and then fills the rest of the soundstage. In every blu-ray I've watched (they're listed above) there hasn't been a single scene where I haven't preferred having the heights on.


I just listened to this scene with a pair of front heights on my Onkyo TX-NR1007 -- it was impressive!, then I turned the heights off - went back to ultra THX 2 mode and listened to it again. I couldn't tell one bit of difference. That scene makes that helicopter disappear into the top left of my room either way. I think pro-logic II is mostly gimmicky in my room. (7 foot tall). Give me some more movies to try!

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post #9 of 21 Old 04-02-2011, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
... in my room. (7 foot tall).
What elevation angle does that put the height speakers at?

If ceiling speakers are an option, you might experiment with locations that increase it for better effect.

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post #10 of 21 Old 04-02-2011, 06:34 PM
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ceiling speakers are an interesting idea!

It's not feasible in my room --- but if I ever build a home theatre - I'll keep that in mind! The angle isn't much I think my ceilings too low to matter.

I also have about 4 foot tower speakers - so just putting that speaker up at the ceiling isn't really that much difference.

I just watched the Jurrasic park sequence with multiple different surround sound modes including Audessey height, THX Ultra 2 Height and Pro Logic IIx height. None of them sounded any better than THX ultra 2 mode except perhaps THX Ultra 2 height --- and even then I'm not sure that it wasn't placebo or so minor as to not warant the time of setting it up permanently.

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post #11 of 21 Old 12-06-2011, 03:11 AM
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I was running a 7.2 system with surround backs and 2 subs (all A&E Evos) and recently added 2 Mission M-cube satellites to the front wall as front heights just to give this new format a try. My Onkyo 1008 has many modes with PLIIz height including Dolby PLIIz Height, THX PLIIz Height Cinema, THX Select2 PLIIz Height Cinema, , Dolby PLIIz Height TV Logic, etc. I'm a bit confused about which one to use. TV Logic makes virgin cable broadcasts exciting but when source is DTS HD Master Audio 7.1 for example, I really feel guilty about using proccesing modes. Has anyone experienced an audible difference with a particular DTS HD movie with front heights?
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post #12 of 21 Old 01-08-2012, 11:13 AM
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I really like the effect of the height speakers in my system(Sony DH810 and Klipsch Quintet III). It's not a "knock your socks off" difference, but it does add some dimension to the front. The placement of the speakers in my system isn't even ideal(top of media cabinet angled up at the ceiling), but you can tell the difference when you toggle b/t PLIIz and AFD(Sony auto decode) or PLII.

Perhaps those who are so negative towards it are expecting too much. It would be interesting to hear programming that is encoded for PLIIz.
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post #13 of 21 Old 01-08-2012, 01:29 PM
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You ain't heard nothing yet, just wait until you hear the amazing new DPLIII format, which requires 48 speakers at four different heights, and oh yes, 6 subwoofers. Awesome man!

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post #14 of 21 Old 01-08-2012, 01:52 PM
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Great thread, I've been testing all day. From blu rays to gaming. For the longest time I preferred Thx Ultra 2. After some testing decided I preferred dsx. Finally I picked up an Onkyo 3009 and with the audition on Neo X decided to test various media. I am preferring PLIIz now. If it matters all speakers are KEF IQ series in 9.2 w/ heights.
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post #15 of 21 Old 01-14-2012, 12:21 AM
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Hey all, I have purchased several components to my first HT. 2 Monitor 60's from polk and the CS1 (in the mail) for my center channel. Also purchased today was a denon avr-1712 refurb for $269 (thought that was a reasonable deal). I am really excited as I really enjoy watching and listening to anything and everything in high quality and this will bring me closer to that goal! Now I am really intrigued by the Pro Logic IIz height features and think they will be great once in action, I just need a bit of advice on picking out the rear surrounds and the speakers used for the heights. New Egg currently has the Polk Audio Monitor 30's on sale for like $80 with a promo code as well as the Polk Audio OWM3 Black Multi Application Compact Loudspeaker Pair for $80 with a promo code. Both of these speakers have good reviews on the egg and they are in my budget range, which I am already over on this entire HT and still need a sub So I was leaning toward the 30's for the rears or in my case the sides as I am in a small room roughly 12x12 and my bed is up against the wall. These speakers I will be pointing at each other in their respective corners on some sort of desk or shelf. I will have to mount the height speakers somehow...not sure if I will have to drill the speaker to the wall or build some sort of mount for them, but since the OWM3's are only 4lbs. each I thought they would be best to use for the heights. I also was curious if I need to do something special in order to get the height speakers to operate. Do the other rear surround channels default to supporting rear or side speakers or is it all set up by the microphone based on where I have the speakers all set at the time of the calibration? Again I first timer... Any feedback is greatly appreciated and wanted.

Edit: I realized after I typed this whole thing that the tread is a review of the IIz. My bad, I don't mean to get you off topic and once I get this HT all set up I look forward to contributing.
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post #16 of 21 Old 01-14-2012, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GolfSounds View Post

Hey all, I have purchased several components to my first HT. 2 Monitor 60's from polk and the CS1 (in the mail) for my center channel. Also purchased today was a denon avr-1712 refurb for $269 (thought that was a reasonable deal). I am really excited as I really enjoy watching and listening to anything and everything in high quality and this will bring me closer to that goal! Now I am really intrigued by the Pro Logic IIz height features and think they will be great once in action, I just need a bit of advice on picking out the rear surrounds and the speakers used for the heights. New Egg currently has the Polk Audio Monitor 30's on sale for like $80 with a promo code as well as the Polk Audio OWM3 Black Multi Application Compact Loudspeaker Pair for $80 with a promo code. Both of these speakers have good reviews on the egg and they are in my budget range, which I am already over on this entire HT and still need a sub So I was leaning toward the 30's for the rears or in my case the sides as I am in a small room roughly 12x12 and my bed is up against the wall. These speakers I will be pointing at each other in their respective corners on some sort of desk or shelf. I will have to mount the height speakers somehow...not sure if I will have to drill the speaker to the wall or build some sort of mount for them, but since the OWM3's are only 4lbs. each I thought they would be best to use for the heights. I also was curious if I need to do something special in order to get the height speakers to operate. Do the other rear surround channels default to supporting rear or side speakers or is it all set up by the microphone based on where I have the speakers all set at the time of the calibration? Again I first timer... Any feedback is greatly appreciated and wanted.

Edit: I realized after I typed this whole thing that the tread is a review of the IIz. My bad, I don't mean to get you off topic and once I get this HT all set up I look forward to contributing.


I would buy matched Polks through the whole range if you are satisfied with their sound.

For speaker set up\\placement look at any of Audyssey Placement guides, as well as Dolby and DTS.
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post #17 of 21 Old 01-14-2012, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBrandon View Post

I would buy matched Polks through the whole range if you are satisfied with their sound.

For speaker set up\\placement look at any of Audyssey Placement guides, as well as Dolby and DTS.

Brandon thanks for taking the time to reply, I have looked at dolby's suggested set up for speakers and I can come pretty close, but I have not checked into the Audyssey placement set up, which I will do.

A few notes, the receiver eta is 1/20 so I haven't heard any of my current set up. And I am not sure what "matched" means. I will research that when I have time today. The monitor 60s manual has list of speakers on the front. I think it is the monitor 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s and cs1 cs2. I assume they would all fall in the same range?
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post #18 of 21 Old 01-14-2012, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GolfSounds View Post

Do the other rear surround channels default to supporting rear or side speakers or is it all set up by the microphone based on where I have the speakers all set at the time of the calibration? Again I first timer... Any feedback is greatly appreciated and wanted.

On the 1712, in a 5.1 setup you have "side" surrounds which are connected to the "Surround" speaker posts. In a 7.1 setup you connect the speakers to the "Surround Back/Amp Assign" speaker posts and designate them as either "Surround Back" or "Front Height" speakers. Note that the 1712 only offers the PLIIz feature rather than also the Audyssey DSX Front Height feature (only on 3312CI). Dolby recommends placing the Front Height speakers directly above the FL/FR speakers when using PLIIz whereas Audyssey recommends spreading them out wider when using Audyssey DSX.

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post #19 of 21 Old 12-29-2012, 05:19 AM
 
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I just upgraded to height on a pioneer vsx-922.
Love the idea of this thread, so will post as I watch/play movies tv and games with impressions.

So far just Doctor Who xmas special
No height, the speakers were just throwing out the score.
It made the front sound stage more dynamic and cohesive tho, and when it used the rears it had more impact as the focus shifted.
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post #20 of 21 Old 12-30-2012, 01:24 PM
 
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Outbreak -hdtv dolby 5.1
How is a laserdisc demo film still a world class mix? Did mixers get lazy?
Height info everywhere!
jungle noises, planes, helicopter's the list is endless!
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post #21 of 21 Old 01-04-2013, 10:58 AM
 
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Apollo 13
If you have a height set up, you need this film!
The whole Film sounds like it was built for height, the take off is just majestic!
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