The "Official" NAD T 747 Owner's Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Sirnice View Post
I always thought digital would provide a better, cleaner signal than analog.
Everything I have are digital (coaxial, optical, HDMI, USB) except for an old Sony VCR and it's more convenient since it's only one cable. I never thought of going back to analog.
Well, looks like the T747 is going back for me.
Did you do any sort of calibration and basic setup? I have a HK AVR 745 in my main theater room and an older T744 in the living room. I brought this up to my theater room and am comparing the two. They have two different sounds but they are both good. If you are used to one, may be your ears don't like the other. I briefly owned a 747 two months ago. I returned it not because of sonic problems but because of other issues. I did not find it worse than the HK AVR 745 sonically.

Make sure you do the testing with both music and movies.
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post #542 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirnice View Post
I always thought digital would provide a better, cleaner signal than analog.
Everything I have are digital (coaxial, optical, HDMI, USB) except for an old Sony VCR and it's more convenient since it's only one cable. I never thought of going back to analog.
Well, looks like the T747 is going back for me.
Sir/Madam..Stop right there ! Don't do that! I think you have misunderstood us.

All Receivers have to have an analog side. Otherwise there would be no way to output sound to power the speakers. Over the years this has been NAD's strength...going way back to their original stereo amps..

What we are saying is that because it has 7.1 analog inputs, it is possible to connect the 747, to a BETTER source with a BETTER Dac..such as one of the new Oppo's, or a high end SACD/DVD-A player. This is quite uncommon in a $500 receiver with reasonable analog sound I assure you.

This is actually a huge strength because as new movie "formats", and even streaming files comes on board, all you have to do is get a better/newer player and plug it in. You can still use the digital side of the NAD if you want, but if you tire of this, you add a better transport/blu ray player etc..

The NAD's digital side is going to be no worse than any other $500 receiver out there. But it has the advantage of a fantastic analog side to add a better player. And the ease of setting this up on the receiver: with it's straight forward "analog bypass" mode makes it a soda to do..

Oh and the manual is real easy to follow as well !

I hope this helps
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post #543 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bommai View Post

Did you do any sort of calibration and basic setup?
Make sure you do the testing with both music and movies.

Both receivers were calibrated using the built-in auto calibration. The NAD actually was simpler/faster to calibrate than the Pioneer and was also more accurate with the distance of each speaker.
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post #544 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by wappinghigh View Post

Sir/Madam..Stop right there ! Don't do that! I think you have misunderstood us.

All Receivers have to have an analog side. Otherwise there would be no way to output sound to power the speakers. Over the years this has been NAD's strength...going way back to their original stereo amps..

What we are saying is that because it has 7.1 analog inputs, it is possible to connect the 747, to a BETTER source with a BETTER Dac..such as one of the new Oppo's, or a high end SACD/DVD-A player. This is quite uncommon in a $500 receiver with reasonable analog sound I assure you.

This is actually a huge strength because as new movie "formats", and even streaming files comes on board, all you have to do is get a better/newer player and plug it in. You can still use the digital side of the NAD if you want, but if you tire of this, you add a better transport/blu ray player etc..

The NAD's digital side is going to be no worse than any other $500 receiver out there. But it has the advantage of a fantastic analog side to add a better player. And the ease of setting this up on the receiver: with it's straight forward "analog bypass" mode makes it a soda to do..

Oh and the manual is real easy to follow as well !

I hope this helps

So are you saying that I can get a better sound if I use the analog output from my player/s to the analog input of the NAD? I assume this will bypass the NADs (or other receivers) built-in processing and use the players processing? Are all the high end features (THX, Super THX, Ultra THX...what ever..) in those new receivers are basically advertisement candy to charge more money?

Going back to my original comparison, both receiver were using digital (HDMI) and I thought the Pioneer produce much better audio. Both using the same source.

I think my samsung player only has LR analog audio out but not 5.1/7.1. I like the simplicity of one cable for video and audio vs 7 (5.1) or 9 (7.1) for analog. The Oppo players are tempting, I've heard many good things about them. Maybe I should look into that.
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post #545 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 07:07 AM
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Try with both EQ on and off on the NAD. Some people have reported the EQ actually made the sound worse.
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post #546 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Sirnice View Post

First let me apologize to all the NAD fans for this post.

1)The bass sounded very muddy, uncontrolled, over powering the mid and highs.
the bass on the pioneer is tighter, faster, clean punch and does not interfere with the mids and highs.
2)imaging on the Pioneer is better, wider sound stage. The instrument separation is better.
3)the voice/dialog on the pioneer is clearer, more crisp.
4)Not sure if the power rating on the T747 is more than the VSX-30 but I have to turn the vol higher on the T747 to get the same loudness of the VSX-30.
5)Not related to audio and was expected: the video quality on the VSX-30 is better.
6)Even at 50% off regular price, it's still $200 more than what I paid for the VSX-30. I had high hopes for it to at least sound better.
7)The overall sound is a little dull (over powering muddy bass) and much more lay-back (preferred by some)compare to the VSX-30.

No need to apologize, we're all pretty thick-skinned and your ears are the only judgement that really counts. One thing I have never heard (having owned / tested a couple recent Pioneer receivers) is that Pioneers have a tight, fast bass. That has not been my experience.

Anyway, you might want to try NOT using the NAD calibration tools. It has been mentioned that it is probably not the best way to set the 747 up. Double-check your speaker configuration in the setup (distances, crossover) and turn EQ off.

I think your source input (HDMI) is a fair comparison method and that there is no reason to suspect that analog in will produce different results. If you are getting "muddy bass" in comparison to the Pioneer with both using HDMI, you will get "muddy bass" with both using analog (in my opinion). If your are using HDMI because you like the simplicity - you should not have to alter that. If that's the way you are going to use the receiver, that's the way you should test it.

It is possible that quite simply the Pioneer is a better match for the Logan's. I'm a real fan of Martin Logan having lived in Lawrence Kansas and toured the factory a number of times. Electrostatics can be tricky however and are more influenced by source setup (ie: processors / amps) than traditional speakers. One thing that comes to mind is the 42-22,000 Hz ± 3dB frequency response. With the 8" woofer the Logan's do not "go low" but the bass is very tight for sure. As mentioned above, check your crossover settings as "calibrated" by the NAD and compare them to the Pioneer crossover settings. It is quite possible that the NAD has incorrectly judged your Logan's (or the Pioneer has and you have become used to it).

I wouldn't judge power by the dial setting on the receivers as they tend to all be calibrated differently. The Pioneer is rated at 80 watts I believe and is probably delivering that in stereo (much less in 5.1 or 7.1). The NAD delivers more than rated power in stereo so I'm pretty sure it's a dial calibration thing. Actually, they both would deliver more since the Logan's are 5 Ohm speakers.

Lastly, I have no doubt the video may be better overall. The Anchor Bay processor in the Pioneer is a better one than the Faroudja DCDi in the NAD.
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post #547 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirnice View Post

First let me apologize to all the NAD fans for this post.

Does the T747 need burn in time? The reason I'm asking is because I received my order today and I'm disappointed with the sound compare to my Pioneer VSX-30.
I compare both receiver using a pair of Martin Logan "Source" speakers.
settings: Stereo mode (similar results in other 2 ch modes too). Both receivers has been calibrated (5.1) using the built-in tool.
Player: Samsung 1600 blue-ray player connected via HDMI to each receiver.


1)The bass sounded very muddy, uncontrolled, over powering the mid and highs.
the bass on the pioneer is tighter, faster, clean punch and does not interfere with the mids and highs.
2)imaging on the Pioneer is better, wider sound stage. The instrument separation is better.
3)the voice/dialog on the pioneer is clearer, more crisp.
4)Not sure if the power rating on the T747 is more than the VSX-30 but I have to turn the vol higher on the T747 to get the same loudness of the VSX-30.
5)Not related to audio and was expected: the video quality on the VSX-30 is better.
6)Even at 50% off regular price, it's still $200 more than what I paid for the VSX-30. I had high hopes for it to at least sound better.
7)The overall sound is a little dull (over powering muddy bass) and much more lay-back (preferred by some)compare to the VSX-30.

Thats all I can remember right now... I'll probably do more testing later after some burn in. Let me know if I'm doing anything wrong with the NAD or any settings I need to change to make it sound good. I really want to like it since everyone seems to love theirs.
I'll either keep the VSX-30 or upgrade to the 1120 or SC series for more power. also considering the Marantz 6005. Any thoughts or advices?

Cannot comment on the NAD, but can comment from owning a 6005, SC-25, and VSX-32/1120. The mid and high level pioneers have thx processing mode, which presents a thuddier sound, notably in movies. I have read this may have to do with the original correction for smaller home theatre rooms via clipping some of the highs. The 6005 sounds like a denon 2311, which is a good thing. It has ample power. In my humble and hugely subjective opinion, Pioneer mcacc renders cleaner dialogue and audyssey multieq in the denon 2311 and marantz 6005 create more surround presence. I have to dial up the center channel on the d and m, and dial down the surrounds for normal listening. ymmv
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post #548 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Sirnice View Post

Both receivers were calibrated using the built-in auto calibration. The NAD actually was simpler/faster to calibrate than the Pioneer and was also more accurate with the distance of each speaker.

Ah - try turning off the equalization. You might be amazed at the difference.

Just the equalization - leave all the speaker settings the same.

-Paul
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post #549 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by paul.raulerson View Post

Ah - try turning off the equalization. You might be amazed at the difference.

Just the equalization - leave all the speaker settings the same.

-Paul

I will try that when I get home tonight. I left it running this morning before I left for work to keep my dog company . I will let you guys know the result if anything changes.
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post #550 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 02:40 PM
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Hi all,

I am new in this forum. I have read all the posts, but I haven´t really found a answer yet.

I have the NAD T747 connected to a NAD T587 Blu-ray with HDMI. In the T587 the HDMI is set to "primary pass through". When setting the T747 to display the sample rate I have not been able to get T747 to display higher than 48 khz. That is even through the T587 playbacks blu-ray material. When I playback a CD the display goes to 44.1 khz. Shouldn't it display 96 khz on blu-ray material? I have tried different discs. Looking the on-screen display from the T747 it is clearly shown that the audio source is DTS Master audio, so the T747 is getting the audio source, just not indicating higher khz that 48. Have anyone gotten the T747 to display higher than 48 khz?

Another issue: I just checked the firmware version on the T747 and it says M1.35. Have anyone had a firmware update on their T747?
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post #551 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ClassMan View Post

Hi all,

I am new in this forum. I have read all the posts, but I haven´t really found a answer yet.

I have the NAD T747 connected to a NAD T587 Blu-ray with HDMI. In the T587 the HDMI is set to "primary pass through". When setting the T747 to display the sample rate I have not been able to get T747 to display higher than 48 khz. That is even through the T587 playbacks blu-ray material. When I playback a CD the display goes to 44.1 khz. Shouldn't it display 96 khz on blu-ray material? I have tried different discs. Looking the on-screen display from the T747 it is clearly shown that the audio source is DTS Master audio, so the T747 is getting the audio source, just not indicating higher khz that 48. Have anyone gotten the T747 to display higher than 48 khz?

Another issue: I just checked the firmware version on the T747 and it says M1.35. Have anyone had a firmware update on their T747?

Bluray movies are mostly 48kHz. Some bluray players artificially double the sample rate. Some music blurays are 96kHz. I have one.
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post #552 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 04:24 PM
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Hey guys.

I was just wondering if anyone else here wasn't able to use the 9th source properly? I can program the source without any difficulties, but whenever I actually try to go to the 9th source, the tuner just pops up (which is supposed to be on 10 anyway).

I've been checking the manual and it states:
"The T 747 is equipped with ten configurable Sources (Source 1 -10)."

I'm only able to use 8 (1-8) of them and configure 9 (1-9), and the 10th one have eluded me.

Any suggestions are much appreciated!
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post #553 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

Bluray movies are mostly 48kHz. Some bluray players artificially double the sample rate. Some music blurays are 96kHz. I have one.

Bom is correct. I ran a test some time ago with Roy Orbison's Black & White Nights BR which is 96 on the LCPM tracks and it showed 96 on the NAD.
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post #554 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bommai View Post

Try with both EQ on and off on the NAD. Some people have reported the EQ actually made the sound worse.

How do you turn off the EQ? I can't find out how to do this..
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post #555 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiQz0r View Post

Hey guys.

I was just wondering if anyone else here wasn't able to use the 9th source properly? I can program the source without any difficulties, but whenever I actually try to go to the 9th source, the tuner just pops up (which is supposed to be on 10 anyway).

I've been checking the manual and it states:
"The T 747 is equipped with ten configurable Sources (Source 1 -10)."

I'm only able to use 8 (1-8) of them and configure 9 (1-9), and the 10th one have eluded me.

Any suggestions are much appreciated!

Great question Can't do it either. The 10th (tuner) is certainly very "unconfigurable" I'd like to disable it completely. Or at least stop the "video" of the tuner appearing up on the TV...
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post #556 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wappinghigh View Post

How do you turn off the EQ? I can't find out how to do this..

ABOUT EQUALIZATION
Equalization is one of the parameters automatically adjusted when the Auto Calibration feature is initiated.

If after Auto Calibration, the resulting equalization effect does not suit your taste or preference, you have the option to turn off such equalization effect.

Below is the procedure on how to turn off equalization.

1 Ensure that auto calibration is completed. Equalization cannot be
turned ON or OFF if auto calibration is not performed and completed.

2 Using the AVR 3 remote control and with Device Selector set to AMP
page, direct the AVR 3 to the T 747's remote sensor.

3 Press and hold AVR 3's TEST button until the upper line of the VFD shows Adjusting EQ and the lower line OFF; equalization is now
turned OFF.

4 If you decide to turn ON again the calibrated equalization effect, press and hold AVR 3's TEST button until the upper line of the VFD shows Adjusting EQ and the lower line ON; equalization is now turned back ON.
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post #557 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 08:03 PM
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Once you turn of the 747 EQ you will open a new world of beautiful music. It is nothing short of amazing how bad the internal EQ on my 747 makes my speakers sound.

Kirk
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post #558 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by k2208 View Post

Once you turn of the 747 EQ you will open a new world of beautiful music. It is nothing short of amazing how bad the internal EQ on my 747 makes my speakers sound.

Amen Brother - it is one of the few things NAD got wrong!
-Paul
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post #559 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by paul.raulerson View Post

Amen Brother - it is one of the few things NAD got wrong!
-Paul

Paul,

WTH were they doing that day at NAD? The rest of the unit is top notch! I am not exaggerating when I say it sounds like there is a blanket over my speakers. Turned off however makes my system take your breath away, it is simply brilliant!

K

Kirk
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post #560 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirnice View Post

I always thought digital would provide a better, cleaner signal than analog.
Everything I have are digital (coaxial, optical, HDMI, USB) except for an old Sony VCR and it's more convenient since it's only one cable. I never thought of going back to analog.
Well, looks like the T747 is going back for me.

I think the 747 is not for you. Different people perceive sound differently. For example, there was a post saying that his (her) HK 257 or 254 sounds similar to the 747. I have no ideas how that is possible, as I own the HK 240, which is the predecessor of the HK 254, but I respect his perception. Also, it may be that the 747 does not go well with your speakers.

I find that the 747 is excellent in both digital and analogue. If you find that its digital is not good, it is a clear sign that it is not for you. Just by curiosity, if you have an opportunity while visiting a store, it would be interesting to see how you compare different brands such as NAD, Arcam, Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, etc ... Probably you won't like the expensive sound of NAD and Arcam, which are among the favorites of many audiophiles.
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post #561 of 1655 Old 04-15-2011, 09:27 PM
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I left the T747 on playing music this morning to let do some burn in while I'm at work. It was off when I got home. I tried turning it on but it turned off right away with a loud pop from my rear speakers and a message flashed on the display "Protection". I tried different outlets, disconnected all speakers, inputs and left the power plugged in but same error message and turned off by itself. I was going to test the sound without the EQ to see if any improvement since it sounded pretty bad after calibration.

Has this happened to anyone? Any solutions? I just received the T747 yesterday and it's already malfunctioned. I guess I'll be keeping my VSX-30 after all.
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post #562 of 1655 Old 04-16-2011, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bommai View Post
Bluray movies are mostly 48kHz. Some bluray players artificially double the sample rate. Some music blurays are 96kHz. I have one.

Okay, I was not aware of this. I guess you learn something everyday.:-)

I googled the subject and found this list. It might not be updated, but could be a pretty good inspiration or overview.

http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php
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post #563 of 1655 Old 04-16-2011, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wappinghigh

How do you turn off the EQ? I can't find out how to do this..
I think you have to press and hold the test button on the remote until you see a msg on the front panel. Doing it again turns it back on.
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post #564 of 1655 Old 04-16-2011, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirnice
I left the T747 on playing music this morning to let do some burn in while I'm at work. It was off when I got home. I tried turning it on but it turned off right away with a loud pop from my rear speakers and a message flashed on the display "Protection". I tried different outlets, disconnected all speakers, inputs and left the power plugged in but same error message and turned off by itself. I was going to test the sound without the EQ to see if any improvement since it sounded pretty bad after calibration.

Has this happened to anyone? Any solutions? I just received the T747 yesterday and it's already malfunctioned. I guess I'll be keeping my VSX-30 after all.
You have a short either inside or outside where you hooked up your speakers. Unhook your speakers and try turning it on. It the problem is not there hook up just two front speakers and make sure the speaker cable is not shorting.
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post #565 of 1655 Old 04-16-2011, 05:48 AM
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I have to decide today if I am staying with the hk 745 or buy a used t754. It has no hdmi. That will be an issue with my ps3. I wonder how much longer the 747s are going to be available. I noticed you can't really get the 775 anymore either.
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post #566 of 1655 Old 04-16-2011, 05:57 AM
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Hi everyone,
I'm looking for some info on the 747 DAC. Could not find them after some research on net, including NAD site. Thanks.
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post #567 of 1655 Old 04-16-2011, 06:04 AM
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Definitely a short - usually in a set of speaker wires. Did you use bare wire on the terminals? If so, be sure to check the wires are not sticking out far enough to contact another terminal. Usually about 1/2" of bare wire is an appropriate amount to strip back.

Same on the speaker side. I've gotten to the point where I almost always use bannana plugs these days.

Of course, it really could be that the unit malfunctioned. If so, that would pretty much explain why you had terrible sound from it.

-Paul
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post #568 of 1655 Old 04-16-2011, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Desperadude View Post
Hi everyone,
I'm looking for some info on the 747 DAC. Could not find them after some research on net, including NAD site. Thanks.
Cirrus Logic CS42528 is what I believe them to be.
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post #569 of 1655 Old 04-16-2011, 06:12 AM
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@Bommai

They will be around for a little while longer (a month or two I should guess), and of course, they are going to start hitting the used market when the T757 hits. I've seen a few on Audiogon already, and they sold quickly.

OT: How do you guys manage the used market for audio gear? I can deal with used computer equipment easily enough, and know what is and is not a fair price, but used audio gear? Not so much!

I see people trying to sell Magnepan MMGs for $1000 (they list retail at $599) or other nonsense like that. How does one sort out the jewels from the riff raff?

-Paul
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post #570 of 1655 Old 04-16-2011, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bommai View Post
I have to decide today if I am staying with the hk 745 or buy a used t754. It has no hdmi. That will be an issue with my ps3. I wonder how much longer the 747s are going to be available. I noticed you can't really get the 775 anymore either.
This of course is absolutely just a personal opinion but I can't see shopping around for a used receiver without HDMI unless your listening habits are strictly music. The HK is a viable option simply because you own it already. It seems to me that your realistic choices are buying the 747 or keeping the HK.

Once again just a guess but I believe the 747's will hang around somewhere until the 757 hits the shelves at $1500. The CES announcement said end of 2nd quarter so realistically late May or June. It is not uncommon for companies to "buy back" or issue credits for returned & replaced models so the 747's may disappear pretty quickly. Even without that, places like Crutchfields & Audio Advisor don't stock a whole lot of NAD's to begin with. Spearit Audio is probably the largest authorized online NAD dealer and although they rarely discount much they are currently dumping the 747 at $599. That mean the end is near.
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