The "Official" NAD T 747 Owner's Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 1663 Old 12-13-2010, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

My clip was found on pg. 31. And right above it is this statement - that you've probably also already read.

Well that makes sense, if the frame rate option is not available because the amp sets it automatically, based on the source and the capabilities of the TV. I can't see why the amp would just select the default frame rate and convert everything to it.

My question has left one of the UK NAD tech reps scratching his head.. waiting for a definitive answer re. firmware update and/or TV compatibility.

A.
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post #32 of 1663 Old 12-20-2010, 11:47 AM
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i'm keen on getting this avr....

has the above problem/issue been resolved.....?!?

Thanks,

Rana

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post #33 of 1663 Old 12-20-2010, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

i'm keen on getting this avr....

has the above problem/issue been resolved.....?!?

What problem? The one that the OP posted from the UK?

Dana

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post #34 of 1663 Old 12-20-2010, 09:51 PM
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Im debating between getting the T747 and Marantz NR1601. I can get the Marantz a bit cheaper and the advantage is the new Audyssey EQ system, and I can bi-amp my Paradigm Signatures. Tell me why I should buy the T747 instead of the Marantz?
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post #35 of 1663 Old 12-21-2010, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post
What problem? The one that the OP posted from the UK?

Dana
This one.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by fpinilla View Post
Hi there,

I have been reading a lot about the NAD T747 and am a big fan of NAD since I purchased my 2-channel Receiver back in the early 90s (NAD 7250PE). I intend on buying the T747 shortly.

Anyhow, from all I've read NAD still retains it's musicality, which is what impressed me way back when and does a fine job with video too. The only issue I see is one which has come up in a couple of places and that is the lack of video switching between 24/50/60 Hz - one place I saw this comment was a review from somebody (in Switzerland) on the amazon.com website. Funnily enough, it ISN'T something that has come up in any of the "professional" reviews. It sounded as though one had to switch the Receiver's video output depending on what your source is (BD, DVD, Satellite, etc.). Someone else's review talked about a workaround but didn't actually say what that workaround was, I thought that this forum would be the perfect place to post this comment and ask for comments/solutions.

I am in Canada and also wonder whether this may be a Europe-specific problem.

Thanks,
Frank
Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post
As you may have noted from my post just above yours, I talked with NAD Canada yesterday! In the course of the conversation about HDMI pass through of video, the rep mentioned a "what if" scenario involving HDMI handshake problems. But, he said if my TV was a North American 60Hz model, there wouldn't be a problem. It is - so I didn't pursue it.

Based on that very short conversation, I do think it's a European issue.

Dana

PS. Thanks for reminding me of where that comment was originally posted. I went looking for it again - and couldn't find it! I'll be getting mine today and may have it up and running within the next day or so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anorakus View Post
OK, I live in the UK and I've run up against this problem.

With the video mode set to Auto, the T747 seems to want to convert everything to 50Hz, with the predictable result that 24p blu-rays and NTSC DVDs (of which I have quite a few) suffer from severe juddering.

This seems ridiculous to me - is it too much to expect that the amp will output the same signal that it's being fed? The option to manually select the output frequency is buried away in the menus, and I'm not prepared to have to change it every time I use a different source.

I'll be contacting NAD to speak to a tech rep to get a definitive answer to this problem. I hope it's solveable by a firmware update or some other means, otherwise the amp is going back to the store to be changed for another brand.

I've scoured the web and have only found a couple of comments about this issue from European users. I agree that none of the professional reviews (including those from the UK) appear to mention it. This has got me wondering as to whether there is a handshaking problem between the amp and certain TV's. I'm using a 3.5 year old Toshiba LCD, which (in common with all flat panel displays) will quite happily display a range of source resolutions and frame-rates - however I wonder if it's telling the T747 that it only supports 50Hz.

I'd be prepared to upgrade to a newer TV if it solved this issue, as I'd really like to keep the T747 - the sound quality is excellent and it's overall a very solid and quality piece of kit.

A.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anorakus View Post
Hi Dana, I saw that in my copy of the manual.. but my point is, in Auto mode shouldn't the amp just output whatever frame rate is being fed into it? I can't understand why it would be designed to convert everything to 50Hz. It's not as if plasma TVs sold in the UK will only display PAL material.. they can handle any frame rate and resolution you put into them.

A.
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Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post
My clip was found on pg. 31. And right above it is this statement - that you've probably also already read.



Dana
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anorakus View Post
Well that makes sense, if the frame rate option is not available because the amp sets it automatically, based on the source and the capabilities of the TV. I can't see why the amp would just select the default frame rate and convert everything to it.

My question has left one of the UK NAD tech reps scratching his head.. waiting for a definitive answer re. firmware update and/or TV compatibility.

A.

Thanks,

Rana

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post #36 of 1663 Old 12-21-2010, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Nothing has changed.

Dana

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post #37 of 1663 Old 12-21-2010, 06:34 AM
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so its still a issue....?!?

Thanks,

Rana

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post #38 of 1663 Old 12-21-2010, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

so its still a issue....?!?

There is no issue as far as I can see. The OP is in the UK but wanted his European 747 to perform as if it was a North American model.

Dana

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post #39 of 1663 Old 12-21-2010, 07:10 AM
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i'm hugely interested in this avr as i love the nad sound..... but...

what are the differences between uk and north america models...?

Thanks,

Rana

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post #40 of 1663 Old 12-21-2010, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

i'm hugely interested in this avr as i love the nad sound..... but...

what are the differences between uk and north america models...?

From reading the manual the European model:

• Power supply is 230V 50 Hz instead of 120V 60 Hz. (Page 10)

• 50Hz, 60Hz and 24Hz are the selectable Frame Rate options. Selectable Frame Rate for 120V version models of T 747 is 60Hz and 24Hz. (Page 31)

• Is equipped for Digital Audio Broadcast (DAB) reception instead of XM Radio on the 120V model. (Page 35).

Dana

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post #41 of 1663 Old 12-21-2010, 07:52 AM
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thanks there drbonbi....

so the frame rate selection has to be done manually...?

Thanks,

Rana

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post #42 of 1663 Old 12-21-2010, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

There is no issue as far as I can see. The OP is in the UK but wanted his European 747 to perform as if it was a North American model.

Dana

In reading the OP's comments again I think my summary above is not quite accurate. He says:

Quote:


With the video mode set to Auto, the T747 seems to want to convert everything to 50Hz, with the predictable result that 24p blu-rays and NTSC DVDs (of which I have quite a few) suffer from severe juddering.

This seems ridiculous to me - is it too much to expect that the amp will output the same signal that it's being fed? The option to manually select the output frequency is buried away in the menus, and I'm not prepared to have to change it every time I use a different source.

He concedes that his European display may be telling the 747 that it's a 50Hz model. That's because of EDID but he wants his 747 when set to auto to sync with the source and not the TV. The manual (page 31) makes it clear that's not an option when Resolution to Display is set to Auto.

So he wants to re-engineer the 747. I suspect that's not going to happen.

Dana

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post #43 of 1663 Old 12-21-2010, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

thanks there drbonbi....

so the frame rate selection has to be done manually...?

No it doesn't. Page 30-31 of the manual:
Quote:


VIDEO FORMAT

There are 2 options under Video format – Resolution to Display and Frame Rate.

Resolution to Display: The T 747 has the excellent ability to upconvert standard definition video contents to high definition video signal. Depending upon your TV/Monitor’s resolution capabilities, select the applicable resolution settings - Auto, 480i/576i, 480p/576p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p.

When “Auto” is selected, the T 747 automatically selects the highest resolution compatible with the connected TV/Monitor.

Frame Rate: Frame rate refers to the number of frames or images that are projected or displayed per second in motion pictures, television or computer video display.

Depending upon your area and video resolution capability of your TV/Monitor, the following “Frame Rate” options are available
50Hz: setting normally for Europe and most of Asia
60Hz: setting normally for North America
24Hz: select to deliver film-like motion characteristics; available or selectable only if your TV/Monitor supports 1080p.

When the “Resolution to Display” is set to “Auto”, “Frame Rate” as an option will not be available.

I really think all this has to do with conversion of standard def discs to HD which typically we rely on players to do. I set my 747 to auto, it syncs up nicely with my 120Hz display, my OPPO BD players and off we go.

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post #44 of 1663 Old 12-21-2010, 08:57 AM
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thanks there buddy... i can see your affection for the 747 there and also your technical knowledge and the effort you put in to get the detailed information....

So firstly cheers to that

well i live in asia...

and i have a 720p optoma hd65 projector....

what happens if i feed it a 720p video...?

what happens if i feed it a 1080p video...? ( video jutter....?? )

Thanks,

Rana

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post #45 of 1663 Old 12-21-2010, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

thanks there buddy... i can see your affection for the 747 there and also your technical knowledge and the effort you put in to get the detailed information....

So firstly cheers to that

well i live in asia...

and i have a 720p optoma hd65 projector....

what happens if i feed it a 720p video...?

what happens if i feed it a 1080p video...? ( video jutter....?? )

The OP ran into judder because he was playing North American discs on a 50Hz Euro display.

There's no point in sending a 1080p signal to a 720p projector. The projector just has to covert the signal to 720p. So, send it a 720p signal. Better still, set the Display Resolution to Auto and you're done.

Dana

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post #46 of 1663 Old 12-21-2010, 09:36 AM
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hey thanks for the clarification...

but in any case how would the OP been able to deal with the situation...?? Can he not play north american discs on a 50hz display...?

Thanks,

Rana

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post #47 of 1663 Old 12-21-2010, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

hey thanks for the clarification...

but in any case how would the OP been able to deal with the situation...?? Can he not play north american discs on a 50hz display...?

There's a lot we don't know. What kind of a player is he using? Is he using the 747 to do the conversion from standard def to HD? Yes, he can play North American discs on a 50Hz display without judder - with the right player.

His real gripe is that the 747 "auto" setting doesn't do what he would like it to do.

Dana

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post #48 of 1663 Old 12-22-2010, 05:20 PM
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OK, I finally got a definitive answer from NAD. With the T747 you have to manually select the output frame-rate. With 'Auto' the T747 reverts to the native frame-rate of the display (i.e. 50Hz for European TVs, 60Hz for North America etc.) regardless of the source.

IMO this is a stupid 'feature' and ruined the T747 for me. I just wanted the amp to output the same signal that was fed into it without having to mess with the menus every time!

NAD said that leaving the player set to 60Hz should give a good picture with any source. This was obviously a stock answer for the North American market - it's true that 24p converted to 60Hz will look as smooth as NTSC material. However it doesn't work for the European market - 50Hz PAL material converted to 60Hz doesn't look right - and there's no need to do this conversion since a European TV will handle any source you throw at it - 24p, 50/60 Hz, whatever.

In the end I took the T747 back and exchanged it for a Pioneer VSX1020, which just repeats the input signal. i.e. you put in 24p, you get 24p out, 50Hz in 50Hz out etc. The Sony models I looked at do the same thing.

Why NAD decided to go with this design concept is beyond me

A.
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post #49 of 1663 Old 12-23-2010, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

The OP ran into judder because he was playing North American discs on a 50Hz Euro display.

There's no point in sending a 1080p signal to a 720p projector. The projector just has to covert the signal to 720p. So, send it a 720p signal. Better still, set the Display Resolution to Auto and you're done.

Dana

Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

hey thanks for the clarification...

but in any case how would the OP been able to deal with the situation...?? Can he not play north american discs on a 50hz display...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

There's a lot we don't know. What kind of a player is he using? Is he using the 747 to do the conversion from standard def to HD? Yes, he can play North American discs on a 50Hz display without judder - with the right player.

His real gripe is that the 747 "auto" setting doesn't do what he would like it to do.

Dana

What if we connect a bluray player and play a 1080p disc. If we send that signal to the 747 will it send 1080p signal to the projector and the projector will convert it to 720p or do Bluray players have a option to send a 720p signal instead of 1080p signal.

You said the OP can play North American discs on a 50Hz display without judder - with the right player...... but what about some bluray discs which have some 60hz in the beginning and then rest of it is 24p...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anorakus View Post

OK, I finally got a definitive answer from NAD. With the T747 you have to manually select the output frame-rate. With 'Auto' the T747 reverts to the native frame-rate of the display (i.e. 50Hz for European TVs, 60Hz for North America etc.) regardless of the source.

IMO this is a stupid 'feature' and ruined the T747 for me. I just wanted the amp to output the same signal that was fed into it without having to mess with the menus every time!

NAD said that leaving the player set to 60Hz should give a good picture with any source. This was obviously a stock answer for the North American market - it's true that 24p converted to 60Hz will look as smooth as NTSC material. However it doesn't work for the European market - 50Hz PAL material converted to 60Hz doesn't look right - and there's no need to do this conversion since a European TV will handle any source you throw at it - 24p, 50/60 Hz, whatever.

In the end I took the T747 back and exchanged it for a Pioneer VSX1020, which just repeats the input signal. i.e. you put in 24p, you get 24p out, 50Hz in 50Hz out etc. The Sony models I looked at do the same thing.

Why NAD decided to go with this design concept is beyond me

A.


I had a few queries in regard to this....

Are you facing this problem mainly due to having a mix of north american discs and european discs ?

Could it have been a "no problem" if you had only european discs...?

If a person had only one source. Say a Bluray player. And he connected the output directly from the bluray player to projector or in your case your toshiba TV... and the audio out from the bluray player to the NAD 747 then there would be no such problems right...?

BUt that is good for some one with only one source. I guess it wont work for someone who has mutiple sources like cable box, xbox, bluray player.

Is that right ?

But is there a difference in sound quality coming from optical cable from Bluray cable to NAD 747 vs sound coming in hdmi cable from bluray player to NAD 747...?

Thanks,

Rana

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post #50 of 1663 Old 12-23-2010, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

...

But is there a difference in sound quality coming from optical cable from Bluray cable to NAD 747 vs sound coming in hdmi cable from bluray player to NAD 747...?

A lot of your questions can be better answered on other threads. But, here's a comment I found in my OPPO Blu-ray player manual.

Quote:


Due to bandwidth limitations, high resolution audio formats such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution and DTS-HD Master Audio cannot be sent through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. A reduced resolution version of the same audio track will be output instead. To listen to high resolution audio formats in their best quality, please use the HDMI connection ...

Dana

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post #51 of 1663 Old 12-23-2010, 08:14 AM
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I just read my Optoma HD 65 manual...

It accepts following signals....

1280 x 720 at 60
1280 x 720 at 50
1920 x 1080 at 60
1920 x 1080 at 50
1920 x 1080 at 24

I'm only gonna be using my AVR with the Projector.

I'm gonna be using a Asia model.

Will i have any problems with the Nad T 747....?

Thanks,

Rana

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post #52 of 1663 Old 12-23-2010, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

I just read my Optoma HD 65 manual...

It accepts following signals....

1280 x 720 at 60
1280 x 720 at 50
1920 x 1080 at 60
1920 x 1080 at 50
1920 x 1080 at 24

I'm only gonna be using my AVR with the Projector.

I'm gonna be using a Asia model.

Will i have any problems with the Nad T 747....?

Why not ask NAD directly? But, include the info about your player when you do.

Dana

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post #53 of 1663 Old 12-23-2010, 10:02 AM
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what do you think about it drbonbi...? since you seem to be technically knowlegeble....

Thanks

Thanks,

Rana

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post #54 of 1663 Old 12-23-2010, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

what do you think about it drbonbi...? since you seem to be technically knowlegeble....

Thanks

What player are you using and what are the output specs?

Dana

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post #55 of 1663 Old 12-23-2010, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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There's a list of NAD distributors world wide with the name and phone number of the contact person in each country so regardless of what I might think, your best bet is a direct contact in the country where you plan to purchase and use the 747.

Dana

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post #56 of 1663 Old 12-23-2010, 10:26 AM
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i guess u are right.. i'll talk about this to my dealer in my area....

how old is the T 747..?

do you think nad is coming out with a replacement at CES 2011...?

Thanks,

Rana

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post #57 of 1663 Old 12-23-2010, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

i guess u are right.. i'll talk about this to my dealer in my area....

how old is the T 747..?

do you think nad is coming out with a replacement at CES 2011...?

The printed manual is dated 2/10. However, an Audioholics Review says "The T 747 and T 737 AV Receivers will be available in January and February 2009 respectively from authorized NAD dealers at suggested prices of $1,299 and $799."

I have no inside info. But, it's possible that a new model is coming soon. Whether at CES 2011 is unknown. I say that because the price at all the authorized dealers is now $300. off the original MSRP. $999. instead of the original $1299. So, it appears that the factory wants to liquidate the inventory that's on dealer shelves.

For some folks like me, that just means now is the time to buy the 747. If you need 3D capability or something else that competitors are offerings and the 747 doesn't have, perhaps it's better to wait and see. But NAD isn't into bells and whistles so it won't change much is my guess.

Dana

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post #58 of 1663 Old 12-23-2010, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

I had a few queries in regard to this....

Are you facing this problem mainly due to having a mix of north american discs and european discs ?

Yes, and I want to watch PAL broadcast material from my cable box. If I only watched one source (say a blu-ray player that I only played 24p blu-rays on) then I could just set the T747 to 24Hz and all would be good. But who only watches one source?

Quote:


Could it have been a "no problem" if you had only european discs...?

I still want to watch blu-rays encoded at 24p..

Quote:


If a person had only one source. Say a Bluray player. And he connected the output directly from the bluray player to projector or in your case your toshiba TV... and the audio out from the bluray player to the NAD 747 then there would be no such problems right...?

The big problem with this is that HD audio formats can only be carried by HDMI. Using optical/coax would work, but you'd be hearing the compressed DD/DTS 'core' signal and not the full uncompressed DTS-MA/Dolby True HD sound.

Also, would you feel happy paying for an amp with HDMI switching ability and then not using it?

Quote:


BUt that is good for some one with only one source. I guess it wont work for someone who has mutiple sources like cable box, xbox, bluray player.

Is that right ?

Well for every source you'd need an HDMI input on the TV, and a digital audio input on the amp. The T747 has 2x optical and 2x coax inputs, which might be enough.. but do you really want to do this when you've just paid for a HDMI switching amp??

Quote:


But is there a difference in sound quality coming from optical cable from Bluray cable to NAD 747 vs sound coming in hdmi cable from bluray player to NAD 747...?

See above..

A.
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post #59 of 1663 Old 12-29-2010, 07:36 AM
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hi to all t747 owners, perhaps someone could help me with an problem I have with manual setup with receiver.What do you set your master volume at too calibrate channel trims.ie, 75db with an radio shack spl meter.tks in advance.
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post #60 of 1663 Old 12-31-2010, 01:25 PM
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where are all the owners of this amp....? only a few...?

Thanks,

Rana

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