Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 16529 Old 12-01-2010, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by J.C. Hall View Post

Ok. I can set those manually without much trouble. It does set the crossovers correctly though right?

That's correct. It also sets the volume trims for you. The bulk of what it does is in the "Room Correction Parameters" which are Calculated on the Windows PC and Uploaded into a memory in the MRX that you can not see.

Another adjustment you should make manually is to adjust Phase for your subwoofer.
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post #452 of 16529 Old 12-01-2010, 02:10 PM
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Ok. Thanks for the replys. Phase is not my strong point to set as I have never really set it myself so I'm not sure how to really do it.
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post #453 of 16529 Old 12-01-2010, 02:18 PM
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In the first post of the D2v / ARC 1 "tweaking" thread you'll find a collection of post links to some helpful posts. In the Setup section of that collection there are a couple of posts to get you started on understanding how to adjust Phase.

ARC never hears the sub playing at the same time as any of the other speakers so ARC will not hear any cancellation resulting from wrong Phase. If you have one sub, that means you can adjust Phase after doing your ARC setup without having to redo ARC.

If you have MORE than one sub you should adjust phase for each sub and then do your ARC setup as the relative Phase between the subs will alter their combined output. Typically you do this by powering up one sub at a time and adjusting each separately to be in proper Phase with the Left Front speaker.
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post #454 of 16529 Old 12-01-2010, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by J.C. Hall View Post

Ok. I can set those manually without much trouble. It does set the crossovers correctly though right?

ARC sets the crossovers perfectly, as far as I am concerned. And, I have no issue setting the speaker distances manually at all. I just want to be able to dial their locations in to the exact inch. For what it is worth, I have always dialed in a complete manual setup with my "ratshack" meter before allowing the automatic room correction to take control. I like to listen to how it sounds the "old" way first. Somehow, ARC always seems to get it better sounding than I can.

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post #455 of 16529 Old 12-01-2010, 03:29 PM
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Automatic setting would be no MORE accurate and would often be significantly LESS accurate.
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Bob, I believe you.

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post #456 of 16529 Old 12-01-2010, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gostan View Post

Unfortunately, I am not able to dial in completely accurate distance results with the MRX700 since there is no ability to set speaker distances other than in set one foott or cm distance(s). All of my speakers seem to be located at the foot + 6 inches location, which means that I have to fudge the final distance up or down one foot. Anthem should have given us the ability to set speaker distances in inches/cm...

You are really just requesting a finer resolution of adjustability. We have been in this boat ever since we started making adjustments in the digital domain!
Regardless of how small each adjustment step may be, I would suggest hunting around the "correct" setting a bit to find out what actually sounds best anyway.

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post #457 of 16529 Old 12-01-2010, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gostan View Post

ARC sets the crossovers perfectly, as far as I am concerned. And, I have no issue setting the speaker distances manually at all. I just want to be able to dial their locations in to the exact inch. For what it is worth, I have always dialed in a complete manual setup with my "ratshack" meter before allowing the automatic room correction to take control. I like to listen to how it sounds the "old" way first. Somehow, ARC always seems to get it better sounding than I can.

I measured in both feet and meters to see which came closer and then moved my listening positions a little to achieve an exact distance.
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post #458 of 16529 Old 12-01-2010, 06:06 PM
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I went ahead and picked up an MRX 500 today. And, got a Keyspan USA-19HS to go with it. I will try my first run with ARC later tonight.

My first look at these AVR's was at Cedia, but I didn't notice at the time how small they actually are. This unit looks very small next to my Denon 3808, and I don't consider the 3808 big. It's heavy for its size though. Quality appears to be top notch too.
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post #459 of 16529 Old 12-01-2010, 06:20 PM
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I'm not a technical guy, but does anyone NOT like the fact that the IEC connector is only 2 conductor instead of 3? Is this common in modern day receivers? I have an old B&K 202 AVR and it uses 3 conductor IEC connectors and so do my 2-channel gear. I realize this is a non-issue for many, but I do use after-market power cords because I believe they make a difference in sound quality. This is not a post starting a debate on the merits of "magical" power cords, just asking the question about whether most modern day receivers use the 2 conductor IEC connectors. Thanks.
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post #460 of 16529 Old 12-01-2010, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

check my posts earlier on in this thread. i had the exact same issue. i resolved it by uninstalling arc, downloading the version off the anthem website, and re-installing. reboot and it worked perfectly. just to be sure it wasn't a fluke, i uninstalled the downloaded version again, re-installed the version that came on the cd, and again had the same issues.

not sure why this happened, but try downloading and report back to us. i too was pulling out my hair that night!

OK, I just spent another half an hour following the steps you outlined - still no go. Are you using the monoprice adapter? Which driver are you using and are you on Windows 7 or XP?
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post #461 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 01:29 AM
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i have the keyspan adaptor. most companies recommend it, so i just bought it and have had no regrets. im running xp on my laptop.

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post #462 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by lpw View Post
OK, I just spent another half an hour following the steps you outlined - still no go. Are you using the monoprice adapter? Which driver are you using and are you on Windows 7 or XP?
I did the firmware upgrade with my mac bootcamp--window 7. I am using the keyspan adapter. Not a single issue.
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post #463 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 09:32 AM
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My primary reason for considering the anthem in the first place is ARC. It's probably one of the mrx's best, if not the best selling feature. It would be silly to purchase the mrx and not take advantage of ARC.

It would be like buying a meridian 2 channel dsp processor and bypassing it.

I would like to bring this topic back for a reason that has been nagging at me. The spirit of the discussion around the lack of analog bypass in MRX receivers was 'if you don't want ARC, there is no reason to buy MRX over other comparable receivers on the market'. I am a bit concerned about this. Here are my reasons why I would consider MRX 700:

1) Beefy, clean, dynamic amplifiers not normally found in receivers
2) High quality DACs that can be used for CD and high res PCMs
3) ARC
4) Nice FM radio so I don't need a separate tuner (yes, I still listen to FM here in Toronto - mostly CBC Stereo for classical).

I hope the implication of the discussion I mentioned is not that if I don't buy MRX 700 for ARC (point 3), the rest of it is nothing to write home about and is neither better nor worse than a similarly priced Denon, Pioneer or Yamaha.

Don't get me wrong, from everything I read ARC seems to be bringing the MRX performance to the next level, but before I go through it, I would like to have a high enough baseline (amps, DACs etc.). After all, not long ago Statement D2 was sold with ARC being an optional add-on, which means that Anthem felt that D2 was worthy its price tag on its sound quality alone (sans ARC). Somehow I need reassurance that the same can be said for MRX 700 (to a degree appropriate for its more modest price point, of course).

Another point regarding people with expensive digital disk spinners: I don't see a point in running anything analog into MRX. If you have a high quality CD player (I have Arcam FMJ 23T), if you run it analog, it means that you first go through player's DAC, then through MRX ADC. If you run a digital SPDIF cable to MRX, you will skip DAC+ADC stage. I subscribe to 'less is more' camp and I have a hard time buying that DAC+ADC processing can sound better from running bits directly into MRX. Note however that this puts a lot of pressure on MRX DACs - everything runs through them so I am a bit surprised that I heard little discussion on their quality (other than the suggestion that we should be looking at the sum of the parts - ADC + ARC + DAC + pre + power - rather than any individual part).
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post #464 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dglozic View Post


I would like to bring this topic back for a reason that has been nagging at me. The spirit of the discussion around the lack of analog bypass in MRX receivers was 'if you don't want ARC, there is no reason to buy MRX over other comparable receivers on the market'. I am a bit concerned about this. Here are my reasons why I would consider MRX 700:

1) Beefy, clean, dynamic amplifiers not normally found in receivers
2) High quality DACs that can be used for CD and high res PCMs
3) ARC
4) Nice FM radio so I don't need a separate tuner (yes, I still listen to FM here in Toronto - mostly CBC Stereo for classical).

I hope the implication of the discussion I mentioned is not that if I don't buy MRX 700 for ARC (point 3), the rest of it is nothing to write home about and is neither better nor worse than a similarly priced Denon, Pioneer or Yamaha.

Don't get me wrong, from everything I read ARC seems to be bringing the MRX performance to the next level, but before I go through it, I would like to have a high enough baseline (amps, DACs etc.). After all, not long ago Statement D2 was sold with ARC being an optional add-on, which means that Anthem felt that D2 was worthy its price tag on its sound quality alone (sans ARC). Somehow I need reassurance that the same can be said for MRX 700 (to a degree appropriate for its more modest price point, of course).

Another point regarding people with expensive digital disk spinners: I don't see a point in running anything analog into MRX. If you have a high quality CD player (I have Arcam FMJ 23T), if you run it analog, it means that you first go through player's DAC, then through MRX ADC. If you run a digital SPDIF cable to MRX, you will skip DAC+ADC stage. I subscribe to 'less is more' camp and I have a hard time buying that DAC+ADC processing can sound better from running bits directly into MRX. Note however that this puts a lot of pressure on MRX DACs - everything runs through them so I am a bit surprised that I heard little discussion on their quality (other than the suggestion that we should be looking at the sum of the parts - ADC + ARC + DAC + pre + power - rather than any individual part).

Very good point. Also to reiterate a point I've made on several occasions, that analog in without ARC sounds inferior than
Analog DSP with ARC. I've tried both with my Arcam and no one who has heard it ever said analog direct sounded better, it isn't just my opinion. Anthem also recommends it.
John

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post #465 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 10:51 AM
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Very good point. Also to reiterate a pointI've made on several occasions, that analog in without ARC sounds inferior than
Analog DSP with ARC. I've tried both with my Arcam and no one who has heard it ever said analog direct sounded better, it isn't just my opinion. Anthem also recommends it.
John

John, a bit of clarification needed: when you say 'analog in without ARC' vs 'Analog DSP with ARC', is the context D2/D2v or MRX? If the former, I think it is significant since you are comparing analog bypass with DSP/ARC. If the later, I don't think you can really compare - all you are comparing is 'Arcam DAC + ADC' vs 'Arcam DAC + ADC + ARC' - not really 'direct' at any point.

Note also that since I mentioned running CD via its digital output (SPDIF), we need to factor in MRX jitter rejection.
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post #466 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dglozic View Post

I would like to bring this topic back for a reason that has been nagging at me. The spirit of the discussion around the lack of analog bypass in MRX receivers was 'if you don't want ARC, there is no reason to buy MRX over other comparable receivers on the market'. I am a bit concerned about this. Here are my reasons why I would consider MRX 700:

1) Beefy, clean, dynamic amplifiers not normally found in receivers
2) High quality DACs that can be used for CD and high res PCMs
3) ARC
4) Nice FM radio so I don't need a separate tuner (yes, I still listen to FM here in Toronto - mostly CBC Stereo for classical).

I hope the implication of the discussion I mentioned is not that if I don't buy MRX 700 for ARC (point 3), the rest of it is nothing to write home about and is neither better nor worse than a similarly priced Denon, Pioneer or Yamaha.

Don't get me wrong, from everything I read ARC seems to be bringing the MRX performance to the next level, but before I go through it, I would like to have a high enough baseline (amps, DACs etc.). After all, not long ago Statement D2 was sold with ARC being an optional add-on, which means that Anthem felt that D2 was worthy its price tag on its sound quality alone (sans ARC). Somehow I need reassurance that the same can be said for MRX 700 (to a degree appropriate for its more modest price point, of course).

I am coming from a Denon 3808 and making the switch to an MRX 500 with, based on the published specs, about half the power. I will give some initial impressions and comparisons in the next few days. As well as my opinion on ARC vs Audyssey MultEQ XT.
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post #467 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by dglozic View Post

John, a bit of clarification needed: when you say 'analog in without ARC' vs 'Analog DSP with ARC', is the context D2/D2v or MRX? If the former, I think it is significant since you are comparing analog bypass with DSP/ARC. If the later, I don't think you can really compare - all you are comparing is 'Arcam DAC + ADC' vs 'Arcam DAC + ADC + ARC' - not really 'direct' at any point.

Note also that since I mentioned running CD via its digital output (SPDIF), we need to factor in MRX jitter rejection.

This is how I think of it. "Direct" and ARC are exclusive of each other. There is no way to really compare the effects. You cannot have "Direct" with ARC an you cannot have ARC with "Direct". So the question is...

Do you think the detrimental effects of a signal passing through the MRX's ADC/DAC processes, if any, are greater the benefits gained from using ARC?

I'm guessing that the differences between a signal that is passed through the "Arcam DAC + MRX ADC + MRX DAC" vs "Arcam DAC + Direct" are negligible.
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post #468 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 01:06 PM
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I have an Arcam avr350. "Direct" means a straight signal pass through to the amps. Turning your processor into an analog preamp. No DSP at all. It is all about your front end players analog stage and the quality of the analog stage in your receiver. 2 ch analog purist concept.

Using MRX dacs with or without ARC is all about digital concept (DSP).

Two completely different approaches. This is why some people with say the OPPO SE might lament their MRX purchase for music. You can always buy a cheap yet quality preamp such as Emotiva USP with HT bypass and have the best of both worlds.
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post #469 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 01:13 PM
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On another note. I'm planning on selling my arcam and buying the 300 as a processor. However, I'm getting impatient. The Onkyo 3008 at a cheap new egg price is starting to look good. Any comparisons between arc and xt32 yet. Get more features with onkyo but SQ is most important to me. Any current mrx owners done any AB's? The majority of my listening habits are movies and gaming these days. However, when I do listen to music I don't want a let down.
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post #470 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 01:33 PM
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Here are the results from my first attempt with ARC. Let me know what you guys think.
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #471 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 01:45 PM
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Here are the results from my first attempt with ARC. Let me know what you guys think.

This result should sound quite good. The only significant problem is the double dip in LS near the crossover frequencies. You've also got a broader dip in RS there but ARC was better able to correct that.

Check the installation instructions for your speakers to see if you are following their guidelines for best bass output from them. For example, they may have a bass port that needs to be opened. Some in-wall speakers need padding installed in the wall behind them. Things like that.
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post #472 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 01:56 PM
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Hey gang,

When posting ARC charts, it would be useful to post your speaker setup, room size and treatments, if any. Also, don't forget to post charts for all speakers plus the targets window. This will make for better interpretation of the data and more useful feedback.
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post #473 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 01:56 PM
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Thanks a lot Bob.

Yes I was quite surprised to see the response curves for my left and right surrounds! They are rear ported, but I am thinking that response has something to do with the fact that I have a table between the two speakers that has my projector sitting on it.

But what about my room gain being low? Should I move that up to 2 and recalculate? And also adjusting my cutoffs higher for the L/R surrounds or my other speakers for that matter?? They are all bookshelf speakers after all. I am going to give it a listen tonight and see how it sounds.

Thanks again for any advice.
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post #474 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 02:04 PM
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Thanks a lot Bob.

Yes I was quite surprised to see the response curves for my left and right surrounds! They are rear ported, but I am thinking that response has something to do with the fact that I have a table between the two speakers that has my projector sitting on it.

But what about my room gain being low? Should I move that up to 2 and recalculate? And also adjusting my cutoffs higher for the L/R surrounds or my other speakers for that matter?? They are all bookshelf speakers after all. I am going to give it a listen tonight and see how it sounds.

Thanks again for any advice.

Raising Room Gain will just give you more of a problem with the Surrounds since the room gain hump will appear at the same frequencies and thus require even greater correction for them.

So figure out what is going on with LS/RS first. If you can't improve their Measured response then raising their cutoff/crossover (ARC Targets window) may help. Once you've gone as far as you can tackling that, then you can see what other tweaks might improve things in general, such as adding back some more Room Gain. By eyeball, your room does not appear to have a lot of inherent Room Gain.

For bookshelf speakers, a key factor for bass response is distance from the wall behind them. You can use the Quick Measure feature (ARC Tools menu) to see how the Measured output of any given speaker changes in real time as you do positioning adjustments or the like.
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post #475 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 02:19 PM
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Thanks again Bob.

From what I remember, the LF/RF are 40" from the back wall and 36" from the sides. My LS/RS are located about 48" behind the listening position and literally 96" from the back wall. My room has a jog at the back and is 26' long at the longest to 24' at the shortest (mind you there is a storage room with door that goes back another 9' or so) X 13' wide and 8' ceiling. Seating position is 12' from front wall.

So being that my LS/RS are that far away from the back of the room, I could see that having an effect on low end response, considering that they only have a 5 1/2" woofer in them as well! But my speaker placement is limited to pretty much the way it is because there is a bar and love seat in the back.
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post #476 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 02:27 PM
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Thanks again Bob.

From what I remember, the LF/RF are 40" from the back wall and 36" from the sides. My LS/RS are located about 48" behind the listening position and literally 96" from the back wall. My room has a jog at the back and is 26' long at the longest to 24' at the shortest (mind you there is a storage room with door that goes back another 9' or so) X 13' wide and 8' ceiling. Seating position is 12' from front wall.

So being that my LS/RS are that far away from the back of the room, I could see that having an effect on low end response, considering that they only have a 5 1/2" woofer in them as well! But my speaker placement is limited to pretty much the way it is because there is a bar and love seat in the back.

Sometimes you just have to prioritize. Certainly wouldn't want to lose the bar or love seat!

Again, check the manufacturer's recommendations for installation of those surround speakers, and check to see if they have any user adjustment for bass output such as a bass port that can be opened/closed.
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post #477 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 02:33 PM
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Sometimes you just have to prioritize. Certainly wouldn't want to lose the bar or love seat!

Again, check the manufacturer's recommendations for installation of those surround speakers, and check to see if they have any user adjustment for bass output such as a bass port that can be opened/closed.
--Bob

Hilarious! I do know that there is no adjustment for these particular bookshelfs, but I will experiment more with placement on these as there is a little bit of wiggle room there.
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post #478 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 02:35 PM
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Hilarious! I do know that there is no adjustment for these particular bookshelfs, but I will experiment more with placement on these as there is a little bit of wiggle room there.

Again, check out Quick Measure for this sort of experiment. Also consider shifting them up or down a bit as that too will change how they couple with the room.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #479 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 02:53 PM
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Hilarious! I do know that there is no adjustment for these particular bookshelfs, but I will experiment more with placement on these as there is a little bit of wiggle room there.

Come on. To get good sound I've not only changed all the equipment but deleted my wife (now ex). You wouldn't even have attorneys' fees getting rid of furniture.
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post #480 of 16529 Old 12-02-2010, 03:00 PM
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Again, check out Quick Measure for this sort of experiment. Also consider shifting them up or down a bit as that too will change how they couple with the room.
--Bob

Also interesting about the RS is that it looks like ARC corrected all the way up to 15K?!?!
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