Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 193 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Blightning2007 View Post

I just picked up my MRX 700 last week. I was wondering if anyone here could tell me where to look for information about how to read the graphs after arc has ran. I am trying to use Quick Measure right now to place my speakers but I dont know what Im looking for when I look at the graph. Any help would be appreciated.

Look for the measured line (red) to track close to the Target curve (dotted line). This will allow ARC to come up with the best correction solution (green) which, in the best case, would be superimposed on the target curve.
John

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Old 07-11-2011, 11:49 AM
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So do you guys leave everything on auto or switch it around. I set my sub setting to flat yesterday and the chart looks quite a bit different. Instead of having the low end dip, it was corrected to be much closer (although slightly below) the target dotted line. I will try and post it when I get home but is this what it should look like?
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

First you have to look at the crossovers that get Uploaded as the crossover for the sub my be different from the "cutoff" ARC displays. As Anthem said, the two of them are different.

It may be that the sub crossover is higher than 80Hz even though ARC is putting less resource into correcting the sub above 80Hz.

--Bob

Bob,

thanks for the comprehensive reply. It is most appreciated.

I understand all the details and my speakers are fine and their placement is optimal for the room layout. The subwoofer has been fine-tuned using its built-in single parametric filter with Quick Measure to eliminate a big peak that I caused by placement as I didn't want any nulls in the frequency response so that ARC would be in a much better place.

My question is where do I see the crossovers that got uploaded? When I look in Bass Management I see the settings from the Targets response cutoffs that got uploaded. There is never (or at least I haven't seen it) any deviation from what the targets were (either auto or personal) and what the Bass Management is. If they weren't the same thing than there should be a difference. Hence my confusion.

Cheers.

Tony
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post


Bob,

thanks for the comprehensive reply. It is most appreciated.

I understand all the details and my speakers are fine and their placement is optimal for the room layout. The subwoofer has been fine-tuned using its built-in single parametric filter with Quick Measure to eliminate a big peak that I caused by placement as I didn't want any nulls in the frequency response so that ARC would be in a much better place.

My question is where do I see the crossovers that got uploaded? When I look in Bass Management I see the settings from the Targets response cutoffs that got uploaded. There is never (or at least I haven't seen it) any deviation from what the targets were (either auto or personal) and what the Bass Management is. If they weren't the same thing than there should be a difference. Hence my confusion.

Cheers.

Tony

They don't appear anywhere that I know of with the MRXs or the pre/pros but they are there.
John

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Old 07-11-2011, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jayray View Post

They don't appear anywhere that I know of with the MRXs or the pre/pros but they are there.
John

Hi John,

okay, that is what I was looking for. Not that I have a problem with Anthem's approach but they could be a little clearer in their explanations and in the Bass Management part of the Setup screen. It always makes you wonder what the crossovers are when ARC is shut off?

Cheers.

Tony
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:42 PM
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The uploaded crossovers from ARC are what appear in Bass Management in the Anthem after the Upload. ONLY THE SUBWOOFER crossover will ever have a value different from the "cutoff" value shown in ARC's Targets window.

For some folks, even their sub's crossover will match its cutoff. Since the MRX has fewer available crossover choices than the D2v, this is more likely to be the case for an ARC setup in the MRX. I.e., ARC found no advantage in using different values for the two of them given the choices available.

Just as with volume trims, any prior crossover values in the Anthem get replaced by the values ARC Uploads.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The uploaded crossovers from ARC are what appear in Bass Management in the Anthem after the Upload. ONLY THE SUBWOOFER crossover will ever have a value different from the "cutoff" value shown in ARC's Targets window.

For some folks, even their sub's crossover will match its cutoff. Since the MRX has fewer available crossover choices than the D2v, this is more likely to be the case for an ARC setup in the MRX. I.e., ARC found no advantage in using different values for the two if them given the choices available.

Just as with volume trims, any prior crossover values in the Anthem get replaced by the values ARC Uploads.
--Bob

Bob,

thanks! That is an informative post and will definitely help alleviate the confusion

Cheers.

Tony
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by eric-t View Post

If you were just using a standard RCA cable I would recommend this RG6/U cable as it will provide better shielding.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Thanks for the link. I did not order this one before. I ordered just now the high quality cable you mentioned.

It is too expensive in Best buy to buy 16 feet audioquest for 99 dollars.
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BTT917 View Post

A quick rundown on 7ch results (@0.1% THD) of receivers in the same general price range as the MRX700 from Home Theater Magazine: http://www.hometheater.com/category/av-receiver-reviews

Anthem MRX 700 - 43.9 watts

Marantz SR7005 - 74.6 watts
Yamaha Aventage RX-A2000 - 62.9 watts
Pioneer Elite SC-37 - 125.4 watts
Onkyo TX-NR5008 - 78.7 watts
Cambridge Audio Azur 650R - 91.5 watts
Yamaha RX-Z7 - 47.1 watts
Sherwood Newcastle R-972 - 39.5 watts
Denon AVR-4810CI - 30.9 watts
Rotel RSX-1560 - 86.1 watts

Admittedly, I was a little disapointed as well in the 700's 7 channel results, but it isn't that uncommon for a receiver in the $2k range to test that low.

I have extended experience with the Yamaha Z7, and can tell you I never had an issue with its 7 channel power in real-world useage. Its room correction, on the other hand, left a lot to be desired.

Sorry for quoting an old post but the 43.9-watt measurement, much lower than our conservative rating, still comes up every so often in discussions despite the fact that Sound&Vision subsequently measured 71W for its April issue.

The August 2011 issue of Home Theater Magazine is on newsstands and has a review of the MRX 300. In that, the all-driven measurement is 56.3W at 0.1%, and 70.9W at 1%. (That's more like it...)

The most important noise floor is in your head. Always remember to protect your hearing.
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post

Sorry for quoting an old post but the 43.9-watt measurement, much lower than our conservative rating, still comes up every so often in discussions despite the fact that Sound&Vision subsequently measured 71W for its April issue.

The August 2011 issue of Home Theater Magazine is on newsstands and has a review of the MRX 300. In that, the all-driven measurement is 56.3W at 0.1%, and 70.9W at 1%. (That's more like it...)

Thanks Nick,

It was always clear to those of us using an MRX that the origional # made no sense.

I mean if Home Theater Magazine measured 56.3W at 0.1%, and 70.9W at 1% on the MRX 300... their earlier quote of 43.9W on the MRX 700 just doesn't even make sense

I wonder if it was simply a misprint or something? Do you know if Home Theater Magazine ever posted a correction somewhere?

Please, before you ask a question about...
General Information on the MRX Series: See the First post here.
Technical Information including using ARC: See the "FAQ" post here.
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:08 PM
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Do you know if Home Theater Magazine ever posted a correction somewhere?

Didn't see one. I wanted to do something about it but by that time word had really gotten around and I'm thinking, how often are little notices after the fact seen anyway?

The most important noise floor is in your head. Always remember to protect your hearing.
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:48 PM
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So I changed the sub to flat and recalculated. I know my sub has a deficiency at the lower end but since it is in-wall, it can't be changed. Just trying to maximize what I have. Will changing to this make a difference or will it just stress the sub too much. I am basically clueless at this so I apologize if this change is totally off.

Thanks.
LL
LL
LL
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Old 07-11-2011, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by iamcdn22 View Post

So I changed the sub to flat and recalculated. I know my sub has a deficiency at the lower end but since it is in-wall, it can't be changed. Just trying to maximize what I have. Will changing to this make a difference or will it just stress the sub too much. I am basically clueless at this so I apologize if this change is totally off.

Thanks.

Try it. I don't know what your sub specs are, so hard to know whether you are stressing it.
John

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Old 07-11-2011, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jayray View Post

Try it. I don't know what your sub specs are, so hard to know whether you are stressing it.
John

From earlier post #5432


Quote:
Originally Posted by iamcdn22 View Post

They are also Noble Fidelity L-10 but I don't think they make these ones themselves. They look like this Ridley Acoustics one: http://www.hd.ca/ridleyacoustics/iwsd250.php but slightly different specs:


Frequency Range: 20Hz to 500Hz
Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohms
Power Handling: 250 watts Program

I knew they wouldn't be ideal so then I went with two of them in the front wall. They are run off of one amp that is pretty identical to this one but with the Noble Fidelity name on it: http://www.hd.ca/ridleyacoustics/amp500.php

I have the phase set a 0 and crossover frequency at 80, but I switched it to bypass so I don't think it's using the crossover.

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Old 07-11-2011, 06:45 PM
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From earlier post #5432

How much of a change does flat make? If not much, don't use it, if a lot, make sure you have low freq. protection built in to prevent sub damage.
John

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Old 07-12-2011, 12:17 AM
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Has Anthem ever addressed the digital anomalies uncovered in the Sound and Vision test bench measurements of the MRX 700?



http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/con...-av-receiver-1

AJ


Sorry to post the same thing twice, but since nobody reacted I thought it might have gotten lost in the other discussion. So there I post again the answer I got from Anthem concerning the sound and Vision test:

We conducted a frequency response test on the MRX 700 with a 96 kHz / 24-bit signal via HDMI at -20 dBFS with volume set to -10 dB. The results were +/-0.1 dB for 20 Hz to 20 kHz and +/- 0.5 dB for 10 Hz to 32 kHz.

With regard to the linearity test, we are also seeing an increased deviation below -80 dB. The conclusions that it is a least-significant-bit flaw or a math error are, however, unjustified. We feel it is more likely that the signal has dropped into the noise of the system and cannot be adequately tracked.


My interpretation: According to Anthem the measuremen of frequency response at 24&96 was simply wrong (I tend to agree, since they also got the 7 channel watt output wrong, as the post above show) and they draw other conclusions from the -80dB deviation.
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:57 AM
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When listening to MRX 700 in the Anthem Logic Music mode in the 5.1 format, the surround rear speakers seem to output fuller sound than the main front speakers. Is't normal? I would think, fuller and richer sound would come from the 2 main front speakers. Thanks for all your feedback.
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:19 AM
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It is not normal, I think. In my case, Anthemlogic music provides some ambience from the rear, but nothing intrusive. Anthemlogic cinema provides more sound from the rear.
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by hamptons View Post

When listening to MRX 700 in the Anthem Logic Music mode in the 5.1 format, the surround rear speakers seem to output fuller sound than the main front speakers. Is't normal? I would think, fuller and richer sound would come from the 2 main front speakers. Thanks for all your feedback.

I will take a guess and say it's normal. When you play music Anthem Logic Music it will use your surrounds to fill the room with constant output from them unlike when in Anthem Logic Cinema in which your surrounds are not always producing sound. So maybe it's the constant output of sound that is making them seem like they have a fuller output
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:46 AM
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Those who have listened to the Anthem Logic Music, what is your verdict: do the rear surround speakers sound louder than the main front speakers when listening to music?
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by hamptons View Post

Those who have listened to the Anthem Logic Music, what is your verdict: do the rear surround speakers sound louder than the main front speakers when listening to music?

It is supposed to be subtle, that is the intent.
John

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Old 07-12-2011, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by hanser View Post

Sorry to post the same thing twice, but since nobody reacted I thought it might have gotten lost in the other discussion. So there I post again the answer I got from Anthem concerning the sound and Vision test:

We conducted a frequency response test on the MRX 700 with a 96 kHz / 24-bit signal via HDMI at -20 dBFS with volume set to -10 dB. The results were +/-0.1 dB for 20 Hz to 20 kHz and +/- 0.5 dB for 10 Hz to 32 kHz.

With regard to the linearity test, we are also seeing an increased deviation below -80 dB. The conclusions that it is a least-significant-bit flaw or a math error are, however, unjustified. We feel it is more likely that the signal has dropped into the noise of the system and cannot be adequately tracked.

Hanser, thanks for querying Anthem. Unfortunately, Anthem's answer is a poor one on several counts:

1. Noise would cause a positive linearity error, not a negative one, as Sound and Vision measured. As it stands, the MRX series has the low level linearity performance of a circa 1990 CD player. See an example graph below:



http://www.stereophile.com/content/n...r-measurements

2. Even if noise were somehow the cause, it should not swamp the output below -80 dBFS. That would be 13-14 bit equivalent performance, unacceptable for components the caliber of the MRX series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanser View Post

My interpretation: According to Anthem the measuremen of frequency response at 24&96 was simply wrong (I tend to agree, since they also got the 7 channel watt output wrong, as the post above show) and they draw other conclusions from the -80dB deviation.

Sound and Vision did not get the seven channel power output measurement "wrong." You may be thinking of Home Theater:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/con...-av-receiver-1
http://www.hometheater.com/content/a...-labs-measures

And, unless experimental error can be uncovered, Home Theater did not get its measurement "wrong." Home Theater simply got a different result. That a measurement of a component does not match expectations for that component or even experience with that component does not alone make the measurement inaccurate.

AJ
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by hamptons View Post

Those who have listened to the Anthem Logic Music, what is your verdict: do the rear surround speakers sound louder than the main front speakers when listening to music?

No they don't, although it may seem that way with some material depending on how it is mixed.

As I have said before ALM sounds simply fantastic with my set up.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by hamptons View Post

Those who have listened to the Anthem Logic Music, what is your verdict: do the rear surround speakers sound louder than the main front speakers when listening to music?

My rears are subtle in Anthem Logic Music. Definitely not louder than front.
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Old 07-12-2011, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by hamptons View Post

Those who have listened to the Anthem Logic Music, what is your verdict: do the rear surround speakers sound louder than the main front speakers when listening to music?

You first mentioned "Fuller sound", that is different from louder. They should not be louder. Are you confusing fuller with louder?
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Old 07-12-2011, 12:15 PM
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What I meant is I can hear the rear surround sounding louder, like revealing more sonic details, like the drum beats, higher bass, better vocals, etc. The other question I have is when watching movies in the Anthem Logic Cinema, are the rear surround speakers supposed to sound louder than in the Anthem Logic Music mode? Thanks.
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Old 07-12-2011, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hamptons View Post

When listening to MRX 700 in the Anthem Logic Music mode in the 5.1 format, the surround rear speakers seem to output fuller sound than the main front speakers. Is't normal? I would think, fuller and richer sound would come from the 2 main front speakers. Thanks for all your feedback.

I do not think it is normal. On occasion I have had this happen to me. The surrounds seem to be playing the main content instead of just filling in background. It does not happen all the time. Sometimes switching between movie and music mode or different inputs helps resolve the issue.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hamptons View Post

Those who have listened to the Anthem Logic Music, what is your verdict: do the rear surround speakers sound louder than the main front speakers when listening to music?

You could also have an issue with music that is out of phase... that will cause a matrix decoder (like AL Music) to send material to the surrounds..
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:10 AM
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You could also have an issue with music that is out of phase... that will cause a matrix decoder (like AL Music) to send material to the surrounds..

Do you have any handshake issues with current beta?
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

Hanser, thanks for querying Anthem. Unfortunately, Anthem's answer is a poor one on several counts:

1. Noise would cause a positive linearity error, not a negative one, as Sound and Vision measured. As it stands, the MRX series has the low level linearity performance of a circa 1990 CD player. See an example graph below:



http://www.stereophile.com/content/n...r-measurements

2. Even if noise were somehow the cause, it should not swamp the output below -80 dBFS. That would be 13-14 bit equivalent performance, unacceptable for components the caliber of the MRX series.



AJ


OK, perhaps it would be best if you would take up this discussion with Anthem directly? I am lacking the necessary knowledge to get into a detailed discussion with them. But since you now have seen, that Anthem is willing to respond to queries like that, it should be no problem for you to discuss it with them.
For my everyday use it does not matter, since for my ears the music produced by the Oppo 93 connected via HDMI to Anthem sound much clearer, more dynamic and more detailed than with my former gear (Rotel Rsp 1066), so the technical questions seem to be academic for me. But I would be very interested to hear of the outcome of your discussion, just from a scientific point.
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