Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 246 - AVS Forum
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post #7351 of 16534 Old 11-14-2011, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post


Think we were typing at the same time

I would have to go back and look at your other graphs of the center... but from memory, I think this is the best looking center graph yet and I don't think you will improve on it much at this point... it is what it is

Otherwise things look awesome! And I'm not surprised that you like the sound without the sub better. You spent good money to get those subs in the front speakers... Unless you decide you want to spend the money on a really nice sub to get you down below 30Hz... I think I would sell the sub you have and enjoy your setup using the subs in your speakers today!

Tigger! Are you indicating, based on the graphs, that these front speakers aren't well suited to go below 30? I was under the impression that they were good to 16 or 18 according to various sources.
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post #7352 of 16534 Old 11-14-2011, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hydrotex View Post

Tigger! Are you indicating, based on the graphs, that these front speakers aren't well suited to go below 30? I was under the impression that they were good to 16 or 18 according to various sources.

Look at his charts. In his room they drop off a cliff at 30kz.
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post #7353 of 16534 Old 11-14-2011, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post


The music profile is definitely the way to go. I even kicked the sub levels on the Tritons up to 11:00 and it was perfect for my liking. The sub is definitely going to go if I can find somebody to take it off my hands. Those Forcefield subs by Goldenear would fit perfectly in the location of my current sub, so that could be an option down the road.

I was about to call the dealer this morning about returning these because I just wasn't happy with how they were performing. Had thought about going ot demo some Klipsch speakers after talking to a friend over the weekend that had the same Axiom setup as I did. He was blown away by how good they sounded, especially how clear the center dialog was. He isn't a music guy like myself so that went a long way...

IMHO, I might not ever get over the center setup or get used to it. Unfortunately, I am probably stuck with these unless I take a loss by selling them...

Have you thought about a different center speaker? W the glowing reviews of the tritons it's a thought...
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post #7354 of 16534 Old 11-14-2011, 04:57 PM
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In general, even if fronts Measure well at such low frequencies it is almost always better to let a good sub handle the load down there. It is a rare front that can handle bass below 30Hz AT VOLUME.

Now, you want good response for an octave below the crossover, since the crossover kicks in gradually as you drop below the crossover frequency. So if your fronts really do Measure well down to 20Hz, then you have the option of tweaking the crossover as low as 40Hz. One octave (twice the frequency) higher.

But it is better to set a crossover like that at 40Hz and let a good sub handle the bass below that. You have to huff a LOT of air to pressurize a room at 16Hz at decent volume.

If the fronts Measure well only down to 30Hz, then you'd like to keep their crossover at or above 60Hz.
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post #7355 of 16534 Old 11-14-2011, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike645 View Post


Look at his charts. In his room they drop off a cliff at 30kz.

That's what I thought I was seeing. I'm still learning to interpret these charts.
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post #7356 of 16534 Old 11-14-2011, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

In general, even if fronts Measure well at such low frequencies it is almost always better to let a good sub handle the load down there. It is a rare front that can handle bass below 30Hz AT VOLUME.

Now, you want good response for an octave below the crossover, since the crossover kicks in gradually as you drop below the crossover frequency. So if your fronts really do Measure well down to 20Hz, then you have the option of tweaking the crossover as low as 40Hz. One octave (twice the frequency) higher.

But it is better to set a crossover like that at 40Hz and let a good sub handle the bass below that. You have to huff a LOT of air to pressurize a room at 16Hz at decent volume.

If the fronts Measure well only down to 30Hz, then you'd like to keep their crossover at or above 60Hz.
--Bob

Thanks Bob! I was really hoping for the convenience of fronts handling it all. I can hear the discussion in my house now about adding a sub to our arrangement. :-)

Guess it's time to start learning about stand alone subs. :-)
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post #7357 of 16534 Old 11-14-2011, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hydrotex View Post

Thanks Bob! I was really hoping for the convenience of fronts handling it all. I can hear the discussion in my house now about adding a sub to our arrangement. :-)

Guess it's time to start learning about stand alone subs. :-)

When you get a good sub properly set up in your room you will be *ASTOUNDED* how much it improves the wow factor in your listening. And ARC works miracles making the setup "just right".

Subs work by "pressurizing" the entire volume of air in the listening room -- which is why bass is non-directional, i.e., it appears to come "from everywhere". That means a critical factor is getting sub that is sized appropriately for the number of cubic feet of room space it will be pressurizing. If you have openings into the rest of the house that makes it harder. So you can buy a sub that's rated to go quite low, and it doesn't do the job simply because it is too small for the room -- i.e., that rating only applies when the sub is in a properly sized (smaller) room.

Subs also vary based on how loud they get vs. how "musical" or "accurate" they are. The more the sub design tries to be accurate the harder it is for it to be loud.

My personal preference is for a very musical sub (which usually means a "servo" design), which will be really helpful handling the low end of your music listening (which only goes down to about 30Hz). Now if that sub is also big enough, and designed for deep bass reproduction (below 20Hz), then it will ALSO work well for what's sometimes called "subsonic" bass -- the bass that you feel more than hear. The bass that shakes the room. And effects tracks in movies (and some rare music tracks) WILL have content down there which is spectacular if your sub can reproduce it.

The down side is that such subs are kind of large and VERY heavy. An alternative is to get two or more subs of the next size down. That works, too, but the setup is more complicated.

Small subs that claim to go deep are either, umm, lying, or they are very inaccurate -- meaning they are not suitable for anything other than bass "noise" such as thuds from explosions in movie tracks. Their bass will either clip (as the driver bottoms out) or will have significant distortion. They are not well suited for music bass at decent volume.

Just to give you an idea, a typical living room, nothing unusually large, will want a sub with at least a 15" diameter cone. The sub will likely weigh around 100 pounds or more and be about the size of a 2 foot cube.

It is also a good idea to get a sub that has decent output at the higher frequency end of bass. LFE content in movie tracks (the .1 of 5.1 or 7.1 tracks) has content up to just under 120Hz. So ideally you want a "musical" or "accurate" sub that can do a good job from 120Hz down to below 20Hz -- with 15Hz being pretty much the practical limit. With such a sub you'll get ALL the LFE channel reproduced, *AND* ARC has maximum flexibility to blend your main speakers and your sub together. (Typical main speaker crossovers will then be in the range from 40Hz to 100Hz depending on the ability of each speaker, and of course the choices actually offered by the MRX.)

There is a whole forum here devoted to subwoofers. Paradigm, the parent company of Anthem, sells some very nice subs.
--Bob

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post #7358 of 16534 Old 11-14-2011, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

When you get a good sub properly set up in your room you will be *ASTOUNDED* how much it improves the wow factor in your listening. And ARC works miracles making the setup "just right".

Subs work by "pressurizing" the entire volume of air in the listening room -- which is why bass is non-directional, i.e., it appears to come "from everywhere". That means a critical factor is getting sub that is sized appropriately for the number of cubic feet of room space it will be pressurizing. If you have openings into the rest of the house that makes it harder. So you can buy a sub that's rated to go quite low, and it doesn't do the job simply because it is too small for the room -- i.e., that rating only applies when the sub is in a properly sized (smaller) room.

Subs also vary based on how loud they get vs. how "musical" or "accurate" they are. The more the sub design tries to be accurate the harder it is for it to be loud.

My personal preference is for a very musical sub (which usually means a "servo" design), which will be really helpful handling the low end of your music listening (which only goes down to about 30Hz). Now if that sub is also big enough, and designed for deep bass reproduction (below 20Hz), then it will ALSO work well for what's sometimes called "subsonic" bass -- the bass that you feel more than hear. The bass that shakes the room. And effects tracks in movies (and some rare music tracks) WILL have content down there which is spectacular if your sub can reproduce it.

The down side is that such subs are kind of large and VERY heavy. An alternative is to get two or more subs of the next size down. That works, too, but the setup is more complicated.

Small subs that claim to go deep are either, umm, lying, or they are very inaccurate -- meaning they are not suitable for anything other than bass "noise" such as thuds from explosions in movie tracks. Their bass will either clip (as the driver bottoms out) or will have significant distortion. They are not well suited for music bass at decent volume.

Just to give you an idea, a typical living room, nothing unusually large, will want a sub with at least a 15" diameter cone. The sub will likely weigh around 100 pounds or more and be about the size of a 2 foot cube.

It is also a good idea to get a sub that has decent output at the higher frequency end of bass. LFE content in movie tracks (the .1 of 5.1 or 7.1 tracks) has content up to just under 120Hz. So ideally you want a "musical" or "accurate" sub that can do a good job from 120Hz down to below 20Hz -- with 15Hz being pretty much the practical limit. With such a sub you'll get ALL the LFE channel reproduced, *AND* ARC has maximum flexibility to blend your main speakers and your sub together. (Typical main speaker crossovers will then be in the range from 40Hz to 100Hz depending on the ability of each speaker, and of course the choices actually offered by the MRX.)

There is a whole forum here devoted to subwoofers. Paradigm, the parent company of Anthem, sells some very nice subs.
--Bob

I'm in trouble. I have cathedral ceilings and openings into other areas of the house.
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post #7359 of 16534 Old 11-14-2011, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by hydrotex View Post

I'm in trouble. I have cathedral ceilings and openings into other areas of the house.

See if you can find a dealer who will let you audition the sub you are interested in. You will need the sub long enough to do an ARC setup and to see how it sounds afterwards.

A good dealer will also be able to calculate the size of sub you need. You will probably want an 18" servo sub such as sold by Paradigm or Velodyne. But if your room is very big you may need more than one sub to really do the job. If you think about it, this is one reason why the custom built theaters you find in some homes are not all that large.

Last I checked, the Velodyne site had a calculator you could use to figure out possible sub choices based on room size.
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post #7360 of 16534 Old 11-14-2011, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

See if you can find a dealer who will let you audition the sub you are interested in. You will need the sub long enough to do an ARC setup and to see how it sounds afterwards.

A good dealer will also be able to calculate the size of sub you need. You will probably want an 18" servo sub such as sold by Paradigm or Velodyne. But if your room is very big you may need more than one sub to really do the job. If you think about it, this is one reason why the custom built theaters you find in some homes are not all that large.

Last I checked, the Velodyne site had a calculator you could use to figure out possible sub choices based on room size.
--Bob

My anthem dealer is also paradigm / goldenear dealer.

Does the quest ever end? :-)
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post #7361 of 16534 Old 11-14-2011, 06:00 PM
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You'll know the quest is over when you see the proverbial moth flying out of your opened wallet.

Heavens, we haven't even BEGUN to get into the exotic stuff. If you want a laugh, go check out the "equipment over $20,000" forum here. And be on the lookout for folks seriously suggesting you replace all your power cords with new ones costing $5,000 each.
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post #7362 of 16534 Old 11-14-2011, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

You'll know the quest is over when you see the proverbial moth flying out of your opened wallet.

Heavens, we haven't even BEGUN to get into the exotic stuff. If you want a laugh, go check out the "equipment over $20,000" forum here. And be on the lookout for folks seriously suggesting you replace all your power cords with new ones costing $5,000 each.
--Bob

Bob, as always, thanks for the great contributions in the posts above, I always enjoy reading them.

... and thanks, as always, for the fantastic laugh over a simple power cord Somethings really do have limits... and I'm pretty sure they start with fitting the emperor for some new clothing... followed by the very real and serious question: "Did you know the word gullible is not in the dictionary?"

lol

Please, before you ask a question about...
General Information on the MRX Series: See the First post here.
Technical Information including using ARC: See the "FAQ" post here.
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post #7363 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 01:48 AM
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HI, Can the mrx300 sufficiently power paradigm studio 60's for home theater?
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post #7364 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post


It's 1/12th octave.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flageborg View Post


Thank you.

When measuring my system with REW V5 to control what ARC actually have done, I get the results which is presented in the enclosed graphs.
ARC is measured both on and off.

Is the ARC-system capable of more "correction" ?





Hi Nick @ Anthem

Would be nice with some answers to the following question:
Is the ARC-system capable of more "correction" ?

A change in crossover frequency from 60Hz to crossover at 80Hz did some positive changes to the sound.

A recalculation with ARC software from this graphs at 60Hz





to this graphs at 80Hz




gave these results when controlled with Room EQ Wizard:



Several users on this forum persistently claim to set their, and ours, ARC-system with a crossover at 60Hz, instead of "old-fashioned" THX 80Hz, which is declared as "retired".


Does any of you users have any comparing measurements that you can share with the rest of us?
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post #7365 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 03:07 AM
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I just read a posting on the Goldenear forum from Sandy Gross regarding my situation. He thinks that I need to all mount the speaker and try it without using ARC...

Wall mounting is not an option at this point. I think raising it up the 3 inches did help things quite a bit. Might still go with a towel or cloth on my cabinet to see if that helps things at all.

Sandy mentioned that ARC can be tricky with these speakers at times...

I give him kudos for being so interactive with his customer base..
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post #7366 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 04:39 AM
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I wanted to post a picture of how my center channel currently is staged. The only other thing I can see doing to improve the sound would be to take the suggestions of a couple forum members and place a cloth or towel on top of the cabinet. The * next to this would be that if it makes a drastic difference, I would have to find something that would both look good and function correctly.

Also, need to find something to use as a 3" stand instead of those cds..

Any suggestions?
LL
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post #7367 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post


Again, don't worry about setting things to "large" or "small".

However, the idea to setup one of your two profiles without the sub is not a bad one to try. Your current sub really is not helping you any. (Full credit to hydrotex, who stopped to look at the big picture, instead of the micro details we were all concentrating on).

1) At this point (if you haven't already) I would turn your sub volume down a lot as several of us suggested above.

2) Run ARC in manual mode.

3) Tell it only run the movie profile (i.e when it asks if you want a seperate music profile, tell it no, you want both music and movie to be the same).

4) Once ARC finishes running, hit your targets button.

5) Uncheck the box at the top under the Music settings on the right that says "Same as Movie".

6) On the Music side, set the "L/R Fronts" check box to "Full range X-Over" and set the value (probably at 60 at the moment) to 30.

7) On the Music side, hit the up arrow on your sub till it says "No Speaker".

8) Now hit the 'Ok' button on the targets window.

9) Press the 'Calculate' button.

10) Post up your new charts, targets window, and speaker calibration windows. NOTE: you will need to post up 2 sets of charts. One for the Movie profile, and one for the Music profile. To switch between the two sets of charts, use the 'View' Men in ARC, at the bottom, of the menu, you will see two options: "Movie" and "Music", the one with a check box is the graphs you are looking at. Simply select the other one to see the other graphs and take your second set of screen shots.

11) Upload your new ARC settings using the 'Upload' button.

12) Try changing your source settings for your player to either use the Movie profile or the Music profile and see what you like better. I think you may find that the Music profile, without the sub at all, is a winner!

Using the procedure above, I ran my Boston Acoustics (built in subwoofer) in 2 configs. *movie* is feeding the subs from the sub output of the MRX 500. *Music* is feeding the speakers as large w no sub. I think more control can be accomplished with the Music setting as the right speaker is in a corner.
The subs are turned down to 8 o'clock.

Both sets of charts are attached.

Levels as set by ARC:
FL +6
center +5
FR +6
Movie Sub -6

Going forward, i think i'll stick to the Music setting of feeding the speakers as large.

Any words of wisdom are appreciated. (I know, "get a real sub" :-)
LL
LL
LL
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post #7368 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrotex View Post

Using the procedure above, I ran my Boston Acoustics (built in subwoofer) in 2 configs. *movie* is feeding the subs from the sub output of the MRX 500. *Music* is feeding the speakers as large w no sub. I think more control can be accomplished with the Music setting as the right speaker is in a corner.
The subs are turned down to 8 o'clock.

Both sets of charts are attached.

Levels as set by ARC:
FL +6
center +5
FR +6
Movie Sub -6

Going forward, i think i'll stick to the Music setting of feeding the speakers as large.



Any words of wisdom are appreciated. (I know, "get a real sub" :-)

I felt the same way and ended up going with the Music profile as well. Like you, I need a real sub....
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post #7369 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrotex View Post

Using the procedure above, I ran my Boston Acoustics (built in subwoofer) in 2 configs. *movie* is feeding the subs from the sub output of the MRX 500. *Music* is feeding the speakers as large w no sub. I think more control can be accomplished with the Music setting as the right speaker is in a corner.
The subs are turned down to 8 o'clock.

Both sets of charts are attached.

Levels as set by ARC:
FL +6
center +5
FR +6
Movie Sub -6

Going forward, i think i'll stick to the Music setting of feeding the speakers as large.

Any words of wisdom are appreciated. (I know, "get a real sub" :-)

Your music config probably is better for your setup with the sub's in your speakers. Your right subwoofer volume is too high as can be seen by the big mountains in the measured response. The left is a bit low but is perhaps a result of the right being too loud. Is this speaker in a corner or near walls? Try moving or turning down the volume. This might cause the left to come up a bit which will get it closer to target and probably will bring your room gain up. Room gain is low because ARC can't boost that left channel enough. In full range for the speakers you might also be able to bring the crossover down to 25hz.
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post #7370 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post

I just read a posting on the Goldenear forum from Sandy Gross regarding my situation. He thinks that I need to all mount the speaker and try it without using ARC...

Wall mounting is not an option at this point. I think raising it up the 3 inches did help things quite a bit. Might still go with a towel or cloth on my cabinet to see if that helps things at all.

Sandy mentioned that ARC can be tricky with these speakers at times...

I give him kudos for being so interactive with his customer base..

Hi Coach2369,

The idea of running without ARC is silly. Your issues are clearly not with ARC. Let me state again, your center simply does not go down any lower (in your current envionment at least).

Keep in mind that the first line ARC draws in your graphs, the red "measured" line is done without any influence from ARCs corrections. When ARC runs its sweeps, it tests all speakers from 20Hz to 20kHz and then displays what it measured as the response of the speakers, as received at the listening mic... so your center was tested with sound well below what you are seeing in your graphs. The speaker simply failed to reproduce anything down below 200Hz or so.

In fact, based on the way the speaker doesn't slowly decay but quickly drops off, it looks as though the center has a high pass filter built in and simply is incapable of going lower. You would see the same thing if you were to measure the speaker with any other amp using any other measuring tool.

Please, before you ask a question about...
General Information on the MRX Series: See the First post here.
Technical Information including using ARC: See the "FAQ" post here.
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post #7371 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrotex View Post

Using the procedure above, I ran my Boston Acoustics (built in subwoofer) in 2 configs. *movie* is feeding the subs from the sub output of the MRX 500. *Music* is feeding the speakers as large w no sub. I think more control can be accomplished with the Music setting as the right speaker is in a corner.
The subs are turned down to 8 o'clock.

Both sets of charts are attached.

Levels as set by ARC:
FL +6
center +5
FR +6
Movie Sub -6

Going forward, i think i'll stick to the Music setting of feeding the speakers as large.

Any words of wisdom are appreciated. (I know, "get a real sub" :-)

If you can, pull the Right Front out of the corner. If you can't, turn the Front Right sub down some to compensate for the boundary gain it is getting from its proximity to the corner. (probably try turning it down by about 15-20% is my guess of a starting place, you can use Quick Measure to see the affects of your adjusments in real time).

I would also turn your Front Left sub up just a slight amount, say about 5% higher.

Also, turn your actual Subs level down, probably about 20%. It is currently to loud. ARC is currently reducing the level for the sub by 6db and boosting your front and center speakers by about 6db... so your sub is playing about 12db to loud. We want to see your speaker calibration levels in the ball park of -3 to 3.

Question on your Movie Profile, did ARC set the Fronts at a cutoff of 100? This surprises me and doesn't make much sense as we know the speakers perfom well down to 30 and your sub doesn't perform well over 80... you are potentially leaving a hole there. I would have expected it to set the fronts to around 60. If ARC sets it to 100 again after you adjust your subs in the fronts, you may want to try manually setting it to 60 and see what happens.

Please, before you ask a question about...
General Information on the MRX Series: See the First post here.
Technical Information including using ARC: See the "FAQ" post here.
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post #7372 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post

I wanted to post a picture of how my center channel currently is staged. The only other thing I can see doing to improve the sound would be to take the suggestions of a couple forum members and place a cloth or towel on top of the cabinet. The * next to this would be that if it makes a drastic difference, I would have to find something that would both look good and function correctly.

Also, need to find something to use as a 3" stand instead of those cds..

Any suggestions?

Have that center channel speaker tested/replaced. Since you aren't getting any true frequency response reproduction below 200Hz movie dialogue will be mostly non-existent. That speaker (Golden Ears 50C???) is supposed to go down as low as 60Hz which should be good for just about any surround sound system. Perhaps the crossover is not functioning properly?

Cheers.
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post #7373 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Flageborg View Post

Hi Nick @ Anthem

Would be nice with some answers to the following question:
Is the ARC-system capable of more "correction" ?

Since you are tinkering with PC audio tools I suggest leaving ARC aside temporarily and trying this experiment which marries listening with the ears to listening with the eyes:

Play music through sound editing software that includes parametric EQ. Start with flat settings and then enable one band with a narrow Q (i.e. narrow frequency range) boosted by, say, 2 dB. Switch the filter on and off while listening, and try different frequencies. How much of a difference do you hear and at which frequency? Now try the same with a 2 dB cut. The purpose is to get a sense of how the things you are seeing on the ARC graph correlates to audibility.

MRX-ARC is flattening response all it can. If you're still compelled to seek further matching of calculated curve to target, the only answer I have is recommending an AVM 50v with external amplification. The AVM 50v and D2v have twice the processing power available to ARC.

The most important noise floor is in your head. Always remember to protect your hearing.
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post #7374 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 08:35 AM
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Hello all, I was wondering if I could get some input on my graphs. My speaker levels were setup by ARC as follows:

Front Left: +2
Center: +2
Front Right: +1
Surround Right: +1
Surround Left: -1
Aux Right: -2
Aux Left: 0
Sub: -10

Also, in the targets, I took it upon myself to boost the room gain from 1.79... to 2.5. I also noticed that i get a fuller sound and more bass with dolby volume on. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Thanks for your help!
LL
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post #7375 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post

Since you are tinkering with PC audio tools I suggest leaving ARC aside temporarily and trying this experiment which marries listening with the ears to listening with the eyes:

Play music through sound editing software that includes parametric EQ. Start with flat settings and then enable one band with a narrow Q (i.e. narrow frequency range) boosted by, say, 2 dB. Switch the filter on and off while listening, and try different frequencies. How much of a difference do you hear and at which frequency? Now try the same with a 2 dB cut. The purpose is to get a sense of how the things you are seeing on the ARC graph correlates to audibility.

MRX-ARC is flattening response all it can. If you're still compelled to seek further matching of calculated curve to target, the only answer I have is recommending an AVM 50v with external amplification. The AVM 50v and D2v have twice the processing power available to ARC.

Nick,

quick question - if you limit the high frequency response for ARC equalisation (e.g. instead of 5000Hz use 1000Hz) can ARC then reapply the equalisation to better refine/smooth out the <1000Hz frequency range?

Thanks in advance. Cheers.

Tony
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post #7376 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post

I wanted to post a picture of how my center channel currently is staged. The only other thing I can see doing to improve the sound would be to take the suggestions of a couple forum members and place a cloth or towel on top of the cabinet. The * next to this would be that if it makes a drastic difference, I would have to find something that would both look good and function correctly.

Also, need to find something to use as a 3" stand instead of those cds..

Any suggestions?

Based on the posted picture, I really don't see how a speaker that small can give you any usable bass (i.e. go down below 100Hz to allow the subwoofer to take over at about 80Hz and avoid being localizable).

How attached are you to that speaker? I am sure a more substantial center speaker would give better results (and you have plenty of space on the console below the TV).
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post #7377 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

You will probably want an 18" servo sub such as sold by Paradigm or Velodyne.

15" was/is Paradigm's largest diameter and after the Servo 15 v2, DSP replaced servos because it accomplishes more and is simpler mechanically. As for box volume, brute force through high power and long excursion works in smaller enclosures. Dual voice coils help keep response linear through driver travel, and class D amplification allows high power from a smaller and lighter package.

Just thought I'd share this, and sorry for going off-topic with the subs but it's all about field cases of in-room response and correction: At shows we normally use two subs up front and two smaller ones at the back for the multichannel demo. While PBKing the back ones at the last CEDIA I was amazed to see that the little Monitor Sub 8s were -3 dB at 20 Hz. I'd never heard of this model and asked a co-worker what was going on with response like that. Of course this is at PBK test sweep level and like most well engineered subs the louder things get the more it rolls off the low end (aka party mode) but still, compare this to the slightly larger entry-level PDR-8 from which response drops like a cliff below 50 Hz even at ARC sweep level. The Sub 12s were flat down to 20 Hz after PBK correction. All were placed in corners (plywood walls, for what it's worth). We used the same equipment at the first annual TAVES in a hotel suite and here's where I'm going with this: One Sub 12 was flat to 20 Hz like at CEDIA whereas the other was 6 dB down. Each Sub 8 was half way down a side wall, and one was down 5 dB and the other 7 dB. Location, location, location! Unfortunately at TAVES the room was shared with a 2-channel system and display area and we couldn't reposition any subs to improve low-end response, especially with the Sub 2s taking the best spots at the front.

Speaking of, the only way to have it all, i.e. undistorted subsonic frequencies at very high output from an enclosure that's smaller than most furniture is with something of the six-driver Signature Sub 2's calibre -- but positioning remains just as important.

The most important noise floor is in your head. Always remember to protect your hearing.
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post #7378 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

if you limit the high frequency response for ARC equalisation (e.g. instead of 5000Hz use 1000Hz) can ARC then reapply the equalisation to better refine/smooth out the <1000Hz frequency range?

Yes but as at least one other person recently noticed (using 2 kHz limit in this case) the result may not be as desirable because the ear is more sensitive to the midrange and leaving it uncorrected for the sake of smoothing out visible and not necessarily very audible bumps in the lower range can be a bad tradeoff. You can A/B by using Music vs Movie configurations, one with auto detected settings and the other with reduced correction range.

The most important noise floor is in your head. Always remember to protect your hearing.
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post #7379 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post

Yes but as at least one other person recently noticed (using 2 kHz limit in this case) the result may not be as desirable because the ear is more sensitive to the midrange and leaving it uncorrected for the sake of smoothing out visible and not necessarily very audible bumps in the lower range can be a bad tradeoff. You can A/B by using Music vs Movie configurations, one with auto detected settings and the other with reduced correction range.

Excellent. Thanks for that.

Cheers.
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post #7380 of 16534 Old 11-15-2011, 09:23 AM
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Just as a refresher I'd like to point out that in correcting the in-room response of each speaker, the speakers become timbre-matched to one another. They may have left the factory-timbre matched but when one ends up closer to a window, doorway, foundation, etc than the other they're not so timbre-matched any more.

We all know this: If two speakers in a stereo arrangement are playing the same thing but one is playing it louder, you're going to hear the sound coming from that direction.

Let's take this a step further: If one speaker is playing one frequency range louder, and the other is playing another frequency range louder, you're going to hear something that approaches a 1950s mono Elvis recording rechanneled for stereo during the 1960s. ARC not only level-balances speakers relative to the listening position, but level-balances all frequencies within. This is why so many people say things to the effect of, "everything snapped into focus once I ran ARC" and my favourite example is what happens when the center channel is temporarily disabled in the speaker configuration setup and dialog is compared with ARC on vs off.

The most important noise floor is in your head. Always remember to protect your hearing.
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