Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 16550 Old 12-15-2010, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jayray View Post

As mentioned before, the sub response is what it is, ie, until you get a more capable sub, this won't change. So if it sounds good for now great.
John

So I don't have to worry about hurting my 10s, and 490, (±2 dB from 65 Hz - 20 kHz)?
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post #812 of 16550 Old 12-15-2010, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post

So I don't have to worry about hurting my 10s, and 490, (±2 dB from 65 Hz - 20 kHz)?

Hi, no you don't have to worry about doing damage to the speakers with the targets there. The speakers have to work harder to produce low frequencies but these aren't too low. It would be different if you were trying to run them full range etc. but 60Hz isn't too low.

The optimum crossover is usually considered* to be one full octave above the -3dB point for the lowest frequency. So if your speakers are capable of -3dB at 40Hz then the optimum crossover would be 80Hz. The speakers would still produce frequencies lower than 80Hz (in this scenario) but wouldn't have to try to produce them at the same power so a lighter load on the amplifier/receiver.

*another idea is to have the crossover set at 10Hz higher than the lowest frequency that the speakers can accurately reproduce.

Cheers.

Tony
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post #813 of 16550 Old 12-15-2010, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post

So I don't have to worry about hurting my 10s, and 490, (±2 dB from 65 Hz - 20 kHz)?

Did you set the cutoffs or are those the ones ARC chose? If ARC chose that then leave them and listen. If you chose them, go back to what ARC did. I don't usually second guess ARC. In my main HT using my D2v, I leave ARC just the way it deciced and the results are fantastic. Remember, ARC has been tested with all of Paradigms speakers so if it thinks you should use a setting, try that first before tweaking. If you don't like it after listening for a while, then tweak.
John

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post #814 of 16550 Old 12-15-2010, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post

Hello all you ARC experts,
I posted this yesterday and never got a response, I wanted to add that I left the settings as recorded and did not tweak them at all. The reason I did this was because I re ran ARC, and on this run I moved the Sub closer to the wall and I liked the way it sounded compared to the other readings. Don't get me wrong the sound is amazing, but as Bob stated earlier there is always a way to make it sound even better!

I believe the technical term you are looking for is wobblyness.

The oscillations in the red Measured curve for LF in the bass could indeed be due to the combination of the sound panel you've mounted behind it and its closeness to the wall. Use Quick Measure while you try some repositioning experiments. If you can't find a practical position that produces a useful amount of improvement, don't forget the trick of raising the cutoff/crossover to help smooth things through that region.

There's nothing wrong with the 80Hz cutoff/crossover you ended up with in the prior solution.
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post #815 of 16550 Old 12-15-2010, 10:46 AM
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Just out of curiosity, has anyone run ARC on either 500/700 with a desktop? If so, how did it go?
Peter

"I'd start a revolution, if I could just get out of bed." -fetters
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post #816 of 16550 Old 12-15-2010, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by yanknuck View Post
Just out of curiosity, has anyone run ARC on either 500/700 with a desktop? If so, how did it go?
Peter
I believe quite a few have but one complaint is the lack of a convenient monitor with a desktop, unlike a laptop. But it has been done.
John

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post #817 of 16550 Old 12-15-2010, 11:32 AM
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It's safe to use quite a long serial cable. So the desktop PC can even be in another room for firmware installs and ARC results Uploads. But for doing ARC Measurements you don't want to use a longer mic USB cable than the one Anthem provides, so the PC has to be close enough to allow that.
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post #818 of 16550 Old 12-15-2010, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
I believe the technical term you are looking for is wobblyness.

The oscillations in the red Measured curve for LF in the bass could indeed be due to the combination of the sound panel you've mounted behind it and its closeness to the wall. Use Quick Measure while you try some repositioning experiments. If you can't find a practical position that produces a useful amount of improvement, don't forget the trick of raising the cutoff/crossover to help smooth things through that region.

There's nothing wrong with the 80Hz cutoff/crossover you ended up with in the prior solution.
--Bob
Ok thanks,
I don't know why I am even questioning this thing, It sounds Amazing!
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post #819 of 16550 Old 12-15-2010, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post
I believe quite a few have but one complaint is the lack of a convenient monitor with a desktop, unlike a laptop. But it has been done.
John
I know it would be a little more inconvenient with a desktop, however I don't plan on tweaking it very often once I get ARC dialed in. The inconvenient part is all the components/cabinet are a royal pain to get at. ie move everything just to swap a AVR, and upgrade speaker wire. So a weekend project to be sure.
I still need to get the 500! But last night I kinda got the all important WAF. The missus said "once Christmas is over..."
Music to my ears! It sure seems as though once it's set up properly, all sounds well!
Peter

"I'd start a revolution, if I could just get out of bed." -fetters
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post #820 of 16550 Old 12-15-2010, 12:55 PM
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Here's what I got on my first ARC run last night. It sounds pretty good, but the bass is lacking in volume/impact. I went with ABCDE measurement positions (see attached). Room is 13.5' W x 17' L x 18' H. Pos #1 is about 12' from front. I'm running MRX 700 with Studio 60, CC-690, ADP-590, Sub 12. It got late, so I didn't do much listening or tweaking.

I used RS analog SPL meter (new unit, fresh battery, C-weighting, slow) to get LF and Sub to 75dB. I set LF to +6dB in Setup > Level Calibration. Sub 12 level knob was set to 9 o'clock position. (Sub crossover knob was on bypass, phase was 0.) Prior to ARC I had it at 12 o'clock (louder).

When ARC was playing the sweep tones, I noticed the sub tones were much quieter than the speaker tones, which seemed suspicious, but I didn't change sub level. The ARC solution set speaker levels at -7, -6 and -5 dB (can't remember the exact breakdown now), but the sub was +7dB. This also seems to indicate sub level was too low. The thing is, the SPL meter correction charts seem to indicate the meter reads low at low frequency, unless I'm reading them wrong.

I did try bumping up the Bass setting, and my ear wanted it around +8dB, however I noticed a slight hum from center speaker at that setting. I also did not yet try changing Room Gain. The only thing I changed from the default ARC settings was setting HPF to Flat, which was a definite improvement.

Looking at the sub measured curve and considering its placement, I wonder if the hump from 30-100 Hz is induced by the corner placement. Maybe I can bring that down by tweaking placement. With a flatter low end below 100 Hz, maybe I can flatten out the calculated curve below 25 Hz. There is a fireplace on the right wall, so I can really slide it down towards LP #2. I will try some minor shifts and see what happens. I also have PBK, which I will try if I need to.

I have not tweaked the phase yet, so perhaps that may help. Sub is facing away from front wall. LF and RF are toed in a bit (15 degrees or so; tried to aim about 1m behind LP #1). Not sure I totally understand phase. Is there more to it than it changes the delay in the sound coming from the sub? I.e., is it essentially the same as changing the sub distance?

Before the first ARC measurement, I played with Quick Measure and moving LF away from the wall, to see how it might improve. Didn't seem to make a huge difference, but I was wondering if running QM will clobber the LF level calibration I had set before running the main ARC measurement. Also, I looked at the sub curve using QM and its levels were at least 10 dB lower than the other speakers (this is after I adjusted sub level with SPL). Can I assume that the ARC mic is accurate, and that the dB levels I see in QM with frequency sweeps might be a better measure than using a SPL meter with the test tones (pink noise?)?

OK, ARC gurus, have at it.

Thanks,
Fran
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post #821 of 16550 Old 12-15-2010, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanknuck View Post
I know it would be a little more inconvenient with a desktop, however I don't plan on tweaking it very often once I get ARC dialed in. The inconvenient part is all the components/cabinet are a royal pain to get at. ie move everything just to swap a AVR, and upgrade speaker wire. So a weekend project to be sure.
I still need to get the 500! But last night I kinda got the all important WAF. The missus said "once Christmas is over..."
Music to my ears! It sure seems as though once it's set up properly, all sounds well!
Peter
While you are setting things up, leave the Serial cable permanently attached to the back of the Anthem (coiled up out of the way). Then you can just unroll it whenever you need to attach the computer.

Odds are you will be doing more things to the room which should be followed with a new ARC Measurement pass than is the case with regard to, say, video calibration. So it is wise to plan now to make life easier for additional ARC runs as time goes on.
--Bob

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post #822 of 16550 Old 12-15-2010, 02:31 PM
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Is there any way to change the Color Space output (RGB vs. YCbCr) on the MRX? I have two devices with bugs that are making my life difficult. Display is Pioneer KRP-600m, which has a bug where if you set color space to auto, it will default to RGB 0-255 even if source is RGB 16-235 (like my cable box, Cisco 8240HDC), causing washed out color. Blu-ray player is LG BD590, which always outputs YCbCr, despite having a setting for RGB. Hence, I need to have the display color space set to Auto, but the display bug prevents this. I am left manually switching display's color space every time I want to watch a Blu-ray. If the MRX allowed forcing color space output to YCbCr (or anything), I would be all set. Is there a way to do that? (I think the D2v/AVM50v can, no?) Can you guys think of any other workarounds?
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post #823 of 16550 Old 12-15-2010, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

While you are setting things up, leave the Serial cable permanently attached to the back of the Anthem (coiled up out of the way). Then you can just unroll it whenever you need to attach the computer.

Odds are you will be doing more things to the room which should be followed with a new ARC Measurement pass than is the case with regard to, say, video calibration. So it is wise to plan now to make life easier for additional ARC runs as time goes on.
--Bob

Pretty much what I was thinking. Anything to make life easier is always a good thing.
Peter

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post #824 of 16550 Old 12-15-2010, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by favorini View Post

Is there any way to change the Color Space output (RBG vs. YCbCr) on the MRX? I have two devices with bugs that are making my life difficult. Display is Pioneer KRP-600m, which has a bug where if you set color space to auto, it will default to RGB 0-255 even if source is RGB 16-235 (like my cable box, Cisco 8240HDC), causing washed out color. Blu-ray player is LG BD590, which always outputs YCbCr, despite having a setting for RGB. Hence, I need to have the display color space set to Auto, but the display bug prevents this. I am left manually switching display's color space every time I want to watch a Blu-ray. If the MRX allowed forcing color space output to YCbCr (or anything), I would be all set. Is there a way to do that? (I think the D2v/AVM50v can, no?) Can you guys think of any other workarounds?

The D2v and AVM50v can assign colour space but the MRX cannot. I use my PS3 using YCbCr and my SA8300 I don't know what it uses, probably RGB. Both work fine without me doing anything to the MRX. Nothing in the setup menu refers to colour space choices.
John

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post #825 of 16550 Old 12-16-2010, 12:26 PM
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Does anyone know what will be added or fix with the new FW?
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post #826 of 16550 Old 12-16-2010, 12:58 PM
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For those of you with parametric EQs in your sub - do you utilize the sub's PEQ in conjunction with ARC, or does ARC eliminate the need for that PEQ?
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post #827 of 16550 Old 12-16-2010, 01:10 PM
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The main ones are a fix for muting at the start of CD tracks and addition of basic serial commands (more commands are planned). I'm guessing it'll be a release before the holidays.

^^^^^^
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post #828 of 16550 Old 12-16-2010, 01:24 PM
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For those of you with parametric EQs in your sub - do you utilize the sub's PEQ in conjunction with ARC, or does ARC eliminate the need for that PEQ?

Try first without and see how the ARC charts look. Usually ARC does a much better job than PEQ. ARC allocates a lot of resources for sub EQ.
John

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post #829 of 16550 Old 12-16-2010, 01:28 PM
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For those of you with parametric EQs in your sub - do you utilize the sub's PEQ in conjunction with ARC, or does ARC eliminate the need for that PEQ?

I did the sub first (Velodyne DD), then ran ARC on top of that. My logic was that the sub EQ would clean up 20-80 Hz and spare the ARC from having to deal with those and leave the processing power to the remaining frequencies. Once the Christmas tree is gone (that thing has got to have some impact on the room's acoustics!) I'm planning to re-do everything and may try it with and without the Velodyne EQ.

Does anyone know if my assumption is correct that ARC has finite processing power, and the cleaner of a starting point you can give it the better it will do with the rest of the spectrum?
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post #830 of 16550 Old 12-16-2010, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike in SF View Post


I did the sub first (Velodyne DD), then ran ARC on top of that. My logic was that the sub EQ would clean up 20-80 Hz and spare the ARC from having to deal with those and leave the processing power to the remaining frequencies. Once the Christmas tree is gone (that thing has got to have some impact on the room's acoustics!) I'm planning to re-do everything and may try it with and without the Velodyne EQ.

Does anyone know if my assumption is correct that ARC has finite processing power, and the cleaner of a starting point you can give it the better it will do with the rest of the spectrum?

I did this with my sub 25 using PBK, but it is ARC for subs. So it not a diff EQ system. So experiment with it, look at the charts and then listen to some hood LFE material you're familiar with.
John

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post #831 of 16550 Old 12-16-2010, 06:24 PM
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Forgive me guys, I don't have my manual handy. Is the master volume supposed to be preset before running ARC? I think mine was set to the power on default of -35. For a typical DTS MA track, I have my volume level set to -18. I ran my previous Denon around -7 to get the same volume level.

Is "0" designed to be reference level on the MRX's?
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post #832 of 16550 Old 12-16-2010, 06:34 PM
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Forgive me guys, I don't have my manual handy. Is the master volume supposed to be preset before running ARC? I think mine was set to the power on default of -35. For a typical DTS MA track, I have my volume level set at to -18. I ran my previous Denon around -7 to get the same volume level.

Is "0" designed to be reference level on the MRX's?

Master Vol. Is not involved when ARC is run. Leave all speaker levels at 0 in the setup menu. Move sub volume on back of sub to 12 o'clock. Now run ARC.
John

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post #833 of 16550 Old 12-16-2010, 06:56 PM
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Master Vol. Is not involved when ARC is run. Leave all speaker levels at 0 in the setup menu. Move sub volume on back of sub to 12 o'clock. Now run ARC.
John

OK... Does that -18 value sound about right to you? I do like it louder than most folks.
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post #834 of 16550 Old 12-16-2010, 07:12 PM
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OK... Does that -18 value sound about right to you? I do like it louder than most folks.

Hard to say. I use mine in a 2.1 setup. On my d2v, I play DTS-MA at -16 to -18 and TrueHD at -12. My MRX rarely goes beyond -24 driving my Paradigm cinema 330s and weany sub PDR 8.
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post #835 of 16550 Old 12-16-2010, 08:12 PM
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Hello, this will be my first post.

Let me start by saying... I'm pretty new to most of the new technologies out there. My current receiver is a Yamaha RX-770 I got when I graduate high school. It has so far survived college and more apartments since college than I care to count. It has been a great receiver, but it seems it is time to come into the 21st century and that includes surround sound, probably 3D video in the future and upgrading my old system. Obviously I would love a receiver that can at least hold up for as long as my current receiver, and to me, that means making sure it is at least able to handle all of today technology and built right.

As I began researching a bit and talking to a few dealers and I fell on 3 receivers: Anthem MRX 500/700, Denon AVR-4311CI and the Yamaha RX-A3000.

I guess having owned a Yamaha it was clear I would at least look to see what they have. The Denon seemed to be commonly mentioned as I wondered from store to store and dealer to dealer and the Anthem was also mentioned by a dealer.

The Anthem seemed to have a lot of things I liked the sounds of (sales pitch must have worked a bit on me) such as true RMS power ratings and more concern with engineering a solid product then lots of cheap bells and whistles (though the bells and whistles are always so easy to get distracted by).

All three seem to be similar in price and general functionality. Though having just read over 30 pages of posts in the old Anthem thread, I have to say I’m beginning to drink the cool aid on ARC. When I got to the last page and discovered a new thread had been started, I read the first few pages and had to skip to the end… I could read no more. (I did search the thread for Yamaha however and found little mention of them).

So far I’m feeling as though the MRX is just a better decision than the Denon. But what is known about the Yamaha? Anyone have an opinion on how it compares with the Anthem? I realize this thread will be biased, but, as I said, I think I’ve begun to drink the ARC kool aid so I might as well get the opinions here.

I will admit I really wish the Anthem had a few more HDMI inputs and one on the front of the unit. And since everything I own is mostly older and neither myself or my father who gave me my current receiver can get rid of things… a few more older A/V connection for things like my original NES would be nice. Otherwise it seems really solid.

Also I’m interested if any details have been learned about the iPod dock? Probably they are somewhere in this new thead… I’ll do another search in a second.

First Questions:
1) Anyone have thoughts, comparison, Pros/Cons with the Yamaha RX-A3000
2) Any new info on the iPod Doc? Will it do video? Will it do podcasts? When is it expected out? I know on the 500/700 it is digital which is great.

Whatever I get needs to be girlfriend friendly… my old patch panel for all the equipment I had on my rack simply is no longer an option…

Well time to start reading the Anthem manual again… I made about a 1/3 of the way through before the old thread consumed me for the better part of a week.

Thanks

Please, before you ask a question about...
General Information on the MRX Series: See the First post here.
Technical Information including using ARC: See the "FAQ" post here.
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post #836 of 16550 Old 12-16-2010, 10:57 PM
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Ok, used search for iPod on the thread... looks like details are very limited, possible release of the doc is March? Seems a long ways out. I guess none of the rest of Anthem's equipment must support a dock? or this would seem to be much easier to release.

One more question... I guess maybe I just assumed that any piece of equipment that plays digital media and has a network connection would connect to a NAS or Network Media Center and be able to play music directly over your home network. I know the Yamaha can. I just quickly went through most of the MRX's manual and I don't recall seeing anything that suggests it can do this?

So Question
3) Can the MRX 500/700 access a NAS unit?
4) If answer is no!?@#^%# than what are people doing to play digital libraries today? USB sticks, this seems like a real pain when I have everything attached to my network and all my music just sitting there.

Thanks

Please, before you ask a question about...
General Information on the MRX Series: See the First post here.
Technical Information including using ARC: See the "FAQ" post here.
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post #837 of 16550 Old 12-17-2010, 06:07 AM
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4) If answer is no!?@#^%# than what are people doing to play digital libraries today? USB sticks, this seems like a real pain when I have everything attached to my network and all my music just sitting there.

Thanks

USB stick OR external hard drive (the far better option IMO).
As far as the Yamaha A3000 goes, you should check out their thread. It will shed light on what those owners are going through. I was convinced I needed a A2000, until I started reading about the MRX. From what I've read about the Yammie, the GUI along with the remote and the network function is frustrating. Also, ARC seems far more reliable and accurate than the YAPO. Gee, I'm beginning to sound like John.
-Peter

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post #838 of 16550 Old 12-17-2010, 06:19 AM
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My last three receivers were Yamaha's the MRX is in a whole other league of sound.

ARC eats Audyssey and poops YPAO.

That being said YPAO was so easy a five year old could do it. The whole sound field on my system if incredibly "clean" sounding. I can't explain it well enough with words so when people ask me I just say it's "wow".

ARC is a pain in the ass to use in some ways, like the receiver just no longer being attached to my laptop during the measuring process ...when I haven't touched a damn thing and it was just working 5 seconds ago for example.

Just not plug and play easy, you will work to set this up and to measure.

As far as netwroks and crap, I have no clue. I have a ps3 for music and when I want to listen I play it with a controller in my hands sitting there to enjoy. I don't expect a reciever to do it any other way....maybe I'm just too old. Same thing with an Ipod.

The bottom line is prepare for the most agonizing set up experience that once completed yields the best sound possible from your speakers and room.

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post #839 of 16550 Old 12-17-2010, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post

Ok, used search for iPod on the thread... looks like details are very limited, possible release of the doc is March? Seems a long ways out. I guess none of the rest of Anthem's equipment must support a dock? or this would seem to be much easier to release.

One more question... I guess maybe I just assumed that any piece of equipment that plays digital media and has a network connection would connect to a NAS or Network Media Center and be able to play music directly over your home network. I know the Yamaha can. I just quickly went through most of the MRX's manual and I don't recall seeing anything that suggests it can do this?

So Question
3) Can the MRX 500/700 access a NAS unit?
4) If answer is no!?@#^%# than what are people doing to play digital libraries today? USB sticks, this seems like a real pain when I have everything attached to my network and all my music just sitting there.

Thanks

I must admit I am following the networking receivers story a bit puzzled. I went a completely different route - I bought a mini-tower Gateway with i3, 1TB hard drive and 4GB RAM, and ATI Radeon 5450 video card with bitstreaming over HDMI for $549 CND. This machine is connected to my 10 years old Denon 3300 via Toslink digital connection (video goes to my TV via an HDMI cable). Therefore all the networking capabilities except maybe IP control and firmware update over the internet are unnecessary to me. I have XBMC installed for all kinds of audio and video needs (I use Grooveshark addon for WASAPI playback of streamed audio), I have a number of CDs ripped using ALAC and played back via either Foobar2000 or XBMC (WASAPI in both cases == bit perfect).

Because of the above, I am mostly focused on receiver's video and audio quality in my search. I understand the convinience of streamed audio in receivers but I get all that in my HTPC (it is very comfortable to operate it from my sofa using a wireless keyboard and mouse and projected on a 52'' Sony Bravia HDTV).

My point being is that there are other options to cramming all those streaming and networking cards into the receiver that already has too many boards (HDMI switching, video processing, ADC/DAC). I am not even sure receivers are the best one to do those tasks - I feel I have much more flexibility and future proofing with an HTPC because I can install new apps and access new websites. But I understand I am in a minority and that networked receivers are 'it' today. Sigh...
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post #840 of 16550 Old 12-17-2010, 07:51 AM
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Thanks for the feedback. I'm starting to read through the Yamaha thread. Like this one, it is very intimidating in length and I'm not very good at skipping entries.

As for the ability to stream digital files off of a remote storage system, I guess for me, I'm trying not to introduce a dedicated computer into my entertainment system... but maybe that is the best solution.

It just seems like it is a fairly small and straight forward bit of software to be able to add this functionality. All the hardware is already there, the Codec’s for music files such as MP3 and WAV are there, the Ethernet port which clearly is fully implemented as it can stream and decode internet radio. All this really needs is a bit of software to be able to communicate with a DLNA server or even simply attach to a shared network drive. 95% of the GUI control for browsing the directories of the NAS unit as well as the code for the actual directory structure should be a simple cut and paste of the code already in place for navigating the directory structure of the USB Stick/Hard Disk.

For me, I currently have 30 GB of music on a NAS unit that several computers have access to. It would be nice to simply point at that NAS and have it read the directory structure the same as it does a locally attached disk. I mean really that is all we are adding here, the simple network code to attach to the NAS unit. There is no need for additional hardware, GUI updates (other than then a simple screen for login credentials to the NAS), etc... The receiver otherwise should treat the NAS exactly like an attached storage system with the same folder and file structure.

Again thank you for the great feedback. I greatly appreciate the excellent advice and expertise of everyone that has contributed to all the pages of posts here.

Please, before you ask a question about...
General Information on the MRX Series: See the First post here.
Technical Information including using ARC: See the "FAQ" post here.
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