Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 280 - AVS Forum
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post #8371 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by audit13 View Post

Glad you found a workaround. If you're renting your HD box, would it be possible to exchange it for a unitwith a hdmi output?

I own the current DVR 530 box but the new DVR 630 is on sale for a great deal at Best Buy . Let's just say my temptation may get the best of me :-)
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post #8372 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 07:55 AM
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With the [pictures you provided it shows analog in the lower left on the back of the Anthem. It also states in the "Input" menu "7 Stereo Analog RCA Inputs".
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post #8373 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Kensmith48 View Post

With the [pictures you provided it shows analog in the lower left on the back of the Anthem. It also states in the "Input" menu "7 Stereo Analog RCA Inputs".

I see that but those are analog stereo inputs. I believe the person referring to the Oppo 83 wants to output 7.1 analog from the Oppo to a 7.1 analog input on the mrx.
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post #8374 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Sdrennan95 View Post

I own the current DVR 530 box but the new DVR 630 is on sale for a great deal at Best Buy . Let's just say my temptation may get the best of me :-)

I have Bell Fibe TV and I can confirm that it passes video without a problem.
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post #8375 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by audit13 View Post

None of the receivers have analog inputs. See images here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289533

thanks -- I was hoping I was reading it wrong. Now I have a choice to make. At the moment I am leaning toward the 700, retire the 83SE, and pickup an Oppo 93. No point in getting the 95 since the enhanced audio output is all analog.

That Anthem gave such a strong showing yesterday everything else seems really mundane. The 83SE has such good audio, I wish I could preserve it somehow.

Anthem bagged the 900 which did have analog inputs, but that was a lot of coin. Standards keep advancing and I would hate to put a lot into anything that can be obsolete in a season.

thanks again
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post #8376 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Reasonable Doubt View Post

thanks -- I was hoping I was reading it wrong. Now I have a choice to make. At the moment I am leaning toward the 700, retire the 83SE, and pickup an Oppo 93. No point in getting the 95 since the enhanced audio output is all analog.

That Anthem gave such a strong showing yesterday everything else seems really mundane. The 83SE has such good audio, I wish I could preserve it somehow.

Anthem bagged the 900 which did have analog inputs, but that was a lot of coin. Standards keep advancing and I would hate to put a lot into anything that can be obsolete in a season.

thanks again

You might want to consider picking up a used AVM 50v or Statement D2v from a dealer or off Audiogon. They both offer 5.1 Analog input that can be used as direct pass-through, or be processed fully just as if it was HDMI input.

But keep in mind that a lot of the audio quality of the Anthem units comes from proper application of Anthem Room Correction (ARC). And to use that with Analog input, you have to let the Anthem re-digitize that Analog input so that it can do the processing. The result then gets converted back to Analog for output. So it is the DACs in the Anthem that predominate when using ARC with Analog audio input.
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post #8377 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Reasonable Doubt View Post

I auditioned the MRX-700 in the store yesterday, beautiful machine. I almost pulled the trigger but decided to do some checking. I have an Oppo 83SE which I am running analog 7.1 audio. Looking at the back panel of the MRX, can the Oppo be connected in analog? I don't see how to do it.

thanks

Hello,
I was in the same predicament as you when I bought my 700. I have an Oppo SE and always used the analog outs obviously because of the great Sabre DACs. But I have to say with ARC set up, and HDMI from the the Oppo to the AVR you will not be sorry! Imaging is amazing and the depth increases from all sides of the listening area.
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post #8378 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post

OK, if I understand what you are say above, you have two inputs on your xtz. One is for a pre-amp input, which currently comes from the MRX's pre-amp, the second is an optical digital input which currently you have connected to your PC.

I do not suspect the optical cable is an issue, as it should not be conducting electricity (it is made out of glass and does not need a shield as radio waves are not going to affect it).

It does sound like you have a ground fault loop. And possibly an issue with the amp itself.

1) If you have just the amp connected to your speakers via speaker wire and nothing attached to the amp (No HDMI, No Digital Optical), do you get a hum of any kind? If yes, there is an issue with your amp. It maybe that when connected to some equipment, the hum goes away and to other equipment it gets worse. However the problem is still the amp.

2) Does the Amp have a 3 pronged plug on it? If yes, have your tried the suggestion of putting a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter on it (do not connect the 2 prongs grounding wire to anything). If it is just a 2 prong plug, try flipping it so that the prongs go into the outlet in the opposit holes from where they did go.

3) What happens if you take the amp out of the picture all together and simply connect your front speakers to the MRX? Is there a hum still or is it gone?

Thanks for the reply Tigger
1)Yes, i can barely hear a hum from my xtz a100d3 when nothing but the speakers are connected. This hum gets much worse when mrx is connected to it and hdmis are connected to mrx.

2)My xtz a100d3 has a 3 prong plug. I have not put an adapter, but is it safe to do so?

3)If i connect my front speakes to mrx500, i can hear no hum at all, no matter whatelse i connect to its inputs or outputs.

Looking forward to your reply.
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post #8379 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post

Hello,
I was in the same predicament as you when I bought my 700. I have an Oppo SE and always used the analog outs obviously because of the great Sabre DACs. But I have to say with ARC set up, and HDMI from the the Oppo to the AVR you will not be sorry! Imaging is amazing and the depth increases from all sides of the listening area.

Thanks -- I think I have a solution. The MRXs do such a good job with audio, far better than the specs and price would lead one to believe I just have to go that way. So -- the 83SE will be demoted to critical stereo listening, taking advantage of the Sabre DACs as well as the MRX amazing sound stage and presence. Then it is a matter of getting a 3D Bluray player, the Oppo 93 for instance. Some new cables and it's SHOWTIME!!

Solved, the best of both -- mostly -- and the budget stands unbroken.

Thanks everyone. Greatly appreciate the advice.
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post #8380 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by smatzis View Post

Thanks for the reply Tigger
1)Yes, i can barely hear a hum from my xtz a100d3 when nothing but the speakers are connected. This hum gets much worse when mrx is connected to it and hdmis are connected to mrx.

2)My xtz a100d3 has a 3 prong plug. I have not put an adapter, but is it safe to do so?

3)If i connect my front speakes to mrx500, i can hear no hum at all, no matter whatelse i connect to its inputs or outputs.

Looking forward to your reply.

Your answer to #1 says pretty much everything. The fact that you have a hum with just the amp and speakers and nothing else (even if it is not as loud) suggests that the amp has an issue, most likely a grounding issue.

When you connect the amp to your computer simply via Optical, the hum does not change much because the fiber optic data cable does not conduct electricity (it is glass not copper). So the grounding potential of your amp is unchanged.

When you connect the MRX, the amp is electrically connected to another component (via the copper wires you used to connect the two) and the faulty ground in the amp is being given a much larger amount of metal to ground to and potentialy an alternate grounding path as well. As the potential difference that is creating the hum increases, so does the hum (for simplicity you can read that as more condjuctive metal is attached to the amp, the stronger the hum is likely to get... don't you love think of your expensive MRX as a lump of metal?).

The problem may be in the amp, or it may even be in the outlet you are using. Is the outlet correctly wired? Is the grounding pin used in the outlet, believe it or not, I have seen a lot 3 pronged outlets that are incorrectly wired and in some case the 3rd prong is not even connected to anything at all!

Try taking your amp and speakers to another room on a different circuit. If the hum completely goes away, have your wiring checked. If it is still there, then you might have your amp looked at.

As for running without the 3rd prong, this is a common fix for ground loops, I use it with my current amp that drives my subs. Is it ideal, maybe not, but it shouldn't be an issue if your amp is correctly built. However, the issue you are having may be an indication of issues the amp is having that need fixing or they may get worse and putting the adapter on could just mask the issue till further failure occures.

It is worth trying the adapter atleast to see if the problem is resolved.

Of course you could always forgo the amp and just use the MRX, if you are happy with the sound levels you get from the intrenal amp in the MRX.

Please, before you ask a question about...
General Information on the MRX Series: See the First post here.
Technical Information including using ARC: See the "FAQ" post here.
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post #8381 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasonable Doubt View Post

I auditioned the MRX-700 in the store yesterday, beautiful machine. I almost pulled the trigger but decided to do some checking. I have an Oppo 83SE which I am running analog 7.1 audio. Looking at the back panel of the MRX, can the Oppo be connected in analog? I don't see how to do it.

thanks

You should be using HDMI, anyway.

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Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #8382 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 04:21 PM
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I like to watch HD music videos recorded from DirecTV. Now that I have the 300 installed there is no bass. If I use the Reference setting, it improves slightly, but not much. I have to go into the channel trims and really crank up the sub to get satisfying bass with a 2.0 recording.

This is unacceptable to me. With my past Yamaha I could use the "Ext Surround" feature to get full bass thru the sub.

Am I missing something?
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post #8383 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Wrager View Post

I like to watch HD music videos recorded from DirecTV. Now that I have the 300 installed there is no bass. If I use the Reference setting, it improves slightly, but not much. I have to go into the channel trims and really crank up the sub to get satisfying bass with a 2.0 recording.

This is unacceptable to me. With my past Yamaha I could use the "Ext Surround" feature to get full bass thru the sub.

Am I missing something?

I use my MRX 500 as a 2.1 when I run ARC. I have plenty of bass even with my 8" boom box. Have you set ARC to include your sub?
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post #8384 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 05:38 PM
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So I went through the test tones for each speaker and figured out that i didn't have the right surround speaker plugged into the MRX. Rather, I had plugged in the speaker wires for a rear surround which doesn't actually have a speaker attached on the other side. I blame the mess of wires behind my rack (should make it a NY resolution to clean it up). I didn't know that could cause an issue, but I've been using the MRX all day today without an issue and was able to run ARC with only a few hiccups (a blue screen of death for my laptop).

Quick question though, is it normal for the MRX to turn itself off/on during the ARC calibration process? Because it did for me, but otherwise it went OK once i re-booted my computer.
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post #8385 of 16559 Old 12-31-2011, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by thenewguy11 View Post

So I went through the test tones for each speaker and figured out that i didn't have the right surround speaker plugged into the MRX. Rather, I had plugged in the speaker wires for a rear surround which doesn't actually have a speaker attached on the other side. I blame the mess of wires behind my rack (should make it a NY resolution to clean it up). I didn't know that could cause an issue, but I've been using the MRX all day today without an issue and was able to run ARC with only a few hiccups (a blue screen of death for my laptop).

Quick question though, is it normal for the MRX to turn itself off/on during the ARC calibration process? Because it did for me, but otherwise it went OK once i re-booted my computer.

Not normal but do keep an eye on it in case it does it again.
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post #8386 of 16559 Old 01-01-2012, 01:21 AM
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hi, so first thing I think is to get my set-up on my TV screen happening

remember I've got some ancient TV, RCA, red, white and yellow my only options

I want video in on the telly and composite out on the MRX?? Swear I've tried every combination, it should show up on the video 1 or video 2 setting?

persevere with me!! Happy NY BTW
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post #8387 of 16559 Old 01-01-2012, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

You should be using HDMI, anyway.

the Oppo 83SE and 95 have specially refined analog audio -- with the right cables the effect is remarkable. Sadly the special audio sections work on analog only, not the HDMI. Their website explains it in great detail.

From my listening, the sound stage analog is much fuller and better defined than the same player in HDMI. timbre is more accurate. My guess is that when the 83 first came out, reviewers loved the video and dissed the audio -- shortly thereafter Oppo launched the Special Edition. A company called NuForce actually takes the mod a rung higher. But only in analog. The concept lives on in the 95.

Thanks.
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post #8388 of 16559 Old 01-01-2012, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Reasonable Doubt View Post

the Oppo 83SE and 95 have specially refined analog audio -- with the right cables the effect is remarkable. Sadly the special audio sections work on analog only, not the HDMI. Their website explains it in great detail.

From my listening, the sound stage analog is much fuller and better defined than the same player in HDMI. timbre is more accurate. My guess is that when the 83 first came out, reviewers loved the video and dissed the audio -- shortly thereafter Oppo launched the Special Edition. A company called NuForce actually takes the mod a rung higher. But only in analog. The concept lives on in the 95.

Thanks.

I don't know what to make of 'analog is much better than the same player in HDMI'. What it really means is that you are comparing analog D/A and output buffer of Oppo to the D/A and line circuits of your pre/pro or receiver. If you are using a cheap receiver, I can see how you can like Oppo analog section better (Sabre DAC is better than what is normally found in receivers).

I sense that what Kal wanted to say is that in order to get good multi-channel sound, you need to apply some kind of room eq, as well as bass management. Both operate in digital domain. In addition, when you use HDMI, your ultimate sound quality is only limited by the quality of your pre/pro. It is possible to surpass Oppo analog output with a sufficiently advanced pre/pro. Even if you don't, you are better off starting in digital domain for room eq and bass management, as I mentioned. Anthem thinks that the results of applying ARC are so dramatic that absolutely negate any theoretical benefit of using external DACs.

Of course, the best of both worlds would be to use top shelf DACs AND ARC, but I guess that's what D2V is for .
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post #8389 of 16559 Old 01-01-2012, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasonable Doubt View Post

the Oppo 83SE and 95 have specially refined analog audio -- with the right cables the effect is remarkable. Sadly the special audio sections work on analog only, not the HDMI. Their website explains it in great detail.

No doubt. I have both players.

OTOH, to get the best overall performance, one has to consider all the variables and not just DAC resolution. My direct comparisons, with both players, is in past MITR columns.

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post #8390 of 16559 Old 01-01-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasonable Doubt View Post

the Oppo 83SE and 95 have specially refined analog audio -- with the right cables the effect is remarkable. Sadly the special audio sections work on analog only, not the HDMI. Their website explains it in great detail.

From my listening, the sound stage analog is much fuller and better defined than the same player in HDMI. timbre is more accurate. My guess is that when the 83 first came out, reviewers loved the video and dissed the audio -- shortly thereafter Oppo launched the Special Edition. A company called NuForce actually takes the mod a rung higher. But only in analog. The concept lives on in the 95.

Thanks.

When you do this comparison, what are you using to handle HDMI audio from the Oppo players? Is that an MRX or something else? It sounds to me like you've got a setup problem in that device, whatever it is.

I think you may not understand that the HDMI audio sent out by the Oppo players is "perfect". It can't GET any better than "perfect" no matter how much is spent on upgrading the player's electronics. It is digital audio, and it is bit for bit accurate. This of course is why the audio upgrades in the 83SE and 95 only change the analog audio portion of the player's hardware. The HDMI output can't GET any better.

And of course the analog output of the Oppo players is derived from that same digital audio presented on the HDMI cable.

(The above ignores the possibility of bugs in the player firmware, but of course better electronics wouldn't fix firmware bugs either. Firmware bugs have to be fixed with better firmware.)

Simply put, if there is a quality problem in HDMI audio it is in your hardware external to the player. Either a setup problem or a problem in the quality of the analog output stage of that external hardware.
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post #8391 of 16559 Old 01-01-2012, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucknaked007 View Post

hi, so first thing I think is to get my set-up on my TV screen happening

remember I've got some ancient TV, RCA, red, white and yellow my only options

I want video in on the telly and composite out on the MRX?? Swear I've tried every combination, it should show up on the video 1 or video 2 setting?

persevere with me!! Happy NY BTW

I don't have an MRX, so take this as just a guess, but my Anthem Statement D2v only RAISES lower quality TV input to higher quality output. It doesn't go the other direction. So if you want Composite video output from it (the lowest quality form of video -- the Yellow RCA cable connection you are talking about), the source device, whatever that might be, has to be sending Composite video to the D2v. Not HDMI or Component video or S-video.
--Bob

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post #8392 of 16559 Old 01-01-2012, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by thenewguy11 View Post

So I went through the test tones for each speaker and figured out that i didn't have the right surround speaker plugged into the MRX. Rather, I had plugged in the speaker wires for a rear surround which doesn't actually have a speaker attached on the other side. I blame the mess of wires behind my rack (should make it a NY resolution to clean it up). I didn't know that could cause an issue, but I've been using the MRX all day today without an issue and was able to run ARC with only a few hiccups (a blue screen of death for my laptop).

Quick question though, is it normal for the MRX to turn itself off/on during the ARC calibration process? Because it did for me, but otherwise it went OK once i re-booted my computer.

It is indeed normal for the ARC application to command the Anthem to power up or down as necessary. Typically you start the process with the Anthem powered off.

Now your speaker wiring problem almost certainly produced the protection shutdowns you experienced because the other end of that unused rear speaker wiring is shorted (the two bare wire ends touching).

When ARC got around to trying to send a signal out that speaker output, the shorted wires meant the amp was trying to drive voltage into no resistance.

You are fortunate that the protection circuit in the MRX works so well, as this is a recipe for frying the amp.
--Bob

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post #8393 of 16559 Old 01-01-2012, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrager View Post

I like to watch HD music videos recorded from DirecTV. Now that I have the 300 installed there is no bass. If I use the Reference setting, it improves slightly, but not much. I have to go into the channel trims and really crank up the sub to get satisfying bass with a 2.0 recording.

This is unacceptable to me. With my past Yamaha I could use the "Ext Surround" feature to get full bass thru the sub.

Am I missing something?

Try the test tones and see if the subwoofer is cabled properly and turning on.

Often problems like this are simply that you haven't set up the "trigger" properly which takes the sub out of standby when it is time for it to play bass. So if the test tones show the sub is working AT ALL, then check your trigger set up. Temporarily set the sub to stay ON all the time -- no trigger activation -- to see if that works.

NOTE: A common mistake made by people moving from other electronics is to wire the sub using the LF/RF speaker outputs -- with cables going from the sub to the LF/RF speakers from there. This is not how you wire a sub using a unit like the MRX. There should be a single cable going from the MRX sub output to the "line level" input of the sub. There should be no other cables attached to the sub (other than its power cord, and possibly a trigger signal wire).
--Bob

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post #8394 of 16559 Old 01-01-2012, 11:35 AM
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Guys, I run my MRX with an external amp and so I'm using the pre-outs.

I noticed that plugging in headphones switches to 2-channel DH mode but still outputs to the 2 front pre-outs (so I have to power off the 5-chan amp to listen quietly). Is there any way around this?

Plugging in the 'phones cuts all the internal amps....

Thanks,
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post #8395 of 16559 Old 01-01-2012, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucknaked007 View Post

hi, so first thing I think is to get my set-up on my TV screen happening

remember I've got some ancient TV, RCA, red, white and yellow my only options

I want video in on the telly and composite out on the MRX?? Swear I've tried every combination, it should show up on the video 1 or video 2 setting?

persevere with me!! Happy NY BTW

Converting the hdmi output of the mrx to composite video may not be an easy task. You'll probably need an hdmi to composite adapter such as these: http://hdmicablesreview.info/hdmi-to-composite-cable/

Do you have a computer monitor with hdmi inputs? If you do, you could use that to set up the mrx.

What about a computer monitor with dvi? If you do, you could use an hdmi to dvi cable.
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post #8396 of 16559 Old 01-01-2012, 03:17 PM
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Do you have a computer monitor with hdmi inputs? If you do, you could use that to set up the mrx.

What about a computer monitor with dvi? If you do, you could use an hdmi to dvi cable.

yes, i've an apple laptop or a PC i can use, will try today thanks

Bob, I'm just trying to 'see' the online set up

cheers
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My Denon AVR-4308ci/A died on Christmas (all digital audio died, only 2ch with no D/A conversion works) so I'm looking for a new box. I'm annoyed that a $2000+ box from a major manufacturer requires $550 in repairs after just a few year's use, so I'm thinking a "high end" company may provide better durability over time than a "mass market" one. With ARC at a reasonable price, on paper the Anthems stand out above anything else I've seen. And I like the fact that they include specifications such as preamp output voltage for all channels in the manual.

But before I pull the trigger, some questions.
(NOTE: I don't feel like asking their local dealer, because based on past experience I do not believe they have an acceptable level of competence to answer technical audio questions.)

(1) Do these AVR's allow any overlap between the mains and sub? While the ideal would probably be allowing a range of blend (i.e. subs get everything below ~150Hz; mains have a highpass at maybe 60Hz, for almost an octave of overlap in the modal region but still the protection of a HP for the mains) an equivalent of "LFE+Main" in Denon-speak (or "DoubleBass" in Onkyo-speak) would work. (Not interested in comments that a blend is undesirable, as they are based on a flawed understanding of the physics at play in bass reproduction in small rooms. I'll be using multiple subwoofers placed and set up per Dr. Geddes' methods, prior to running ARC.)

(2) Is WinXP installed on the latest version of Parallels still considered a no-go for ARC? Having to install Boot Camp would be a little annoying, though I guess I would do it if I had to, assuming I can find my old XP disk.

(3) Does Dolby Volume offer an option for loudness compensation (i.e. bass boost at lower volumes that progressively declines as one approaches "reference"), without any dynamic compression? That is to say, is there a Dolby Volume analog to running Audyssey DynamicEQ while leaving Audyssey Dynamic Volume off on a box equipped with the Audyssey suite? Snark if you want, but I've found Audyssey DynamicEQ really helps expand the "ideal volume" from a point to a range with much music. It's the most impressive part of their software suite, IMO.

(4) Any issues in using a Harmony One to control it?

(5) Is there any reason at all to look at the 500 or 700 over the 300, given that I have a fairly simple system, with the following five source components:
-Two A/V HDMI inputs (Oppo BDP-83 for DVD-A, AppleTV)
-One component that uses HDMI for video and optical for audio (my old MacBook, which is now a media server)
-One component that uses optical for audio and nothing for video (the OTA HDTV tuner in my TV)
-One stereo analog source (phono preamp)
I've never used HD radio on my dead Denon box, and obviously, I can get internet radio off of the AppleTV and Pandora off the MacBook.
Also, while I'm currently using smaller speakers, when I move I will pull out my reference LCR mains, which are 96dB/W/m (bespoke design with Dual Concentric driver from Tannoy System 12 DMT II). But at any rate, the difference in power seems too small to care about, given that the '300 tested at ~83W/5ch/8Ω and ~165W/2ch/4Ω, and under the same conditions by the same reviewer the '700 was a whopping 0.54dBW higher into 8Ω with five channels driven ~1.5dBW into 4Ω with 2 channels driven.

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I think you may not understand that the HDMI audio sent out by the Oppo players is "perfect". It can't GET any better than "perfect" no matter how much is spent on upgrading the player's electronics. It is digital audio, and it is bit for bit accurate. This of course is why the audio upgrades in the 83SE and 95 only change the analog audio portion of the player's hardware. The HDMI output can't GET any better.


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Bob, that touches at the heart of an old debate that began with the arrival of CDs back in the 80's. The Golden Ears, analog holdouts, claim they can hear the difference between a digital signal and a refined analog setup. The digital advocates declared that digital is the gold standard and that nothing is better.

Frankly, digital is easier to manipulate, no audible noise, no wow and flutter, potentially flat frequency response -- what's not to like?

I'll give you that an average digital recording is much better than an average analog. But the Oppo's analog signal is derived from a digital recording, so how can that be improved upon?

There a reams of arguments posted going back decades debating the matter.

My observation -- a really fine analog setup sounds more real, more present, and is more pleasing to listen to than most digital sources. But the expense and mostly the tweaking it takes to get there is more than a sane person wants to put into it. And the output is highly dependent on the sound engineering and production. Many productions are pretty much slopped together. Garbage in -- garbage out.

On my rig the 83SE's 7.1 analog output with Bluejean cables had greater depth, a more realistic sound stage, and frankly just sounds better on a well engineered recording than the digital output.

I was hoping to carry that into the MRX, but the sound I heard during the audition, purely digital, HDMI conveyed, was astounding for equipment in that price range. ARC seems to have a lot to do with it.

I am intrigued. That's why I have to have it.

Thanks for your input.
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

My Denon AVR-4308ci/A died on Christmas (all digital audio died, only 2ch with no D/A conversion works) so I'm looking for a new box. I'm annoyed that a $2000+ box from a major manufacturer requires $550 in repairs after just a few year's use, so I'm thinking a "high end" company may provide better durability over time than a "mass market" one. With ARC at a reasonable price, on paper the Anthems stand out above anything else I've seen. And I like the fact that they include specifications such as preamp output voltage for all channels in the manual.

But before I pull the trigger, some questions.
(NOTE: I don't feel like asking their local dealer, because based on past experience I do not believe they have an acceptable level of competence to answer technical audio questions.)

(1) Do these AVR's allow any overlap between the mains and sub? While the ideal would probably be allowing a range of blend (i.e. subs get everything below ~150Hz; mains have a highpass at maybe 60Hz, for almost an octave of overlap in the modal region but still the protection of a HP for the mains) an equivalent of "LFE+Main" in Denon-speak (or "DoubleBass" in Onkyo-speak) would work. (Not interested in comments that a blend is undesirable, as they are based on a flawed understanding of the physics at play in bass reproduction in small rooms. I'll be using multiple subwoofers placed and set up per Dr. Geddes' methods, prior to running ARC.)

(2) Is WinXP installed on the latest version of Parallels still considered a no-go for ARC? Having to install Boot Camp would be a little annoying, though I guess I would do it if I had to, assuming I can find my old XP disk.

(3) Does Dolby Volume offer an option for loudness compensation (i.e. bass boost at lower volumes that progressively declines as one approaches "reference"), without any dynamic compression? That is to say, is there a Dolby Volume analog to running Audyssey DynamicEQ while leaving Audyssey Dynamic Volume off on a box equipped with the Audyssey suite? Snark if you want, but I've found Audyssey DynamicEQ really helps expand the "ideal volume" from a point to a range with much music. It's the most impressive part of their software suite, IMO.

(4) Any issues in using a Harmony One to control it?

(5) Is there any reason at all to look at the 500 or 700 over the 300, given that I have a fairly simple system, with the following five source components:
-Two A/V HDMI inputs (Oppo BDP-83 for DVD-A, AppleTV)
-One component that uses HDMI for video and optical for audio (my old MacBook, which is now a media server)
-One component that uses optical for audio and nothing for video (the OTA HDTV tuner in my TV)
-One stereo analog source (phono preamp)
I've never used HD radio on my dead Denon box, and obviously, I can get internet radio off of the AppleTV and Pandora off the MacBook.
Also, while I'm currently using smaller speakers, when I move I will pull out my reference LCR mains, which are 96dB/W/m (bespoke design with Dual Concentric driver from Tannoy System 12 DMT II). But at any rate, the difference in power seems too small to care about, given that the '300 tested at ~83W/5ch/8Ω and ~165W/2ch/4Ω, and under the same conditions by the same reviewer the '700 was a whopping 0.54dBW higher into 8Ω with five channels driven ~1.5dBW into 4Ω with 2 channels driven.


Couldn't answer all of your questions, but I can answer most of them, see below. I went from a Denon 4306 to the MRX500, consider it to be an upgrade, and am very satisfied with the MRX

(1) Do these AVR's allow any overlap between the mains and sub? While the ideal would probably be allowing a range of blend (i.e. subs get everything below ~150Hz; mains have a highpass at maybe 60Hz, for almost an octave of overlap in the modal region but still the protection of a HP for the mains) an equivalent of "LFE+Main" in Denon-speak (or "DoubleBass" in Onkyo-speak) would work. (Not interested in comments that a blend is undesirable, as they are based on a flawed understanding of the physics at play in bass reproduction in small rooms. I'll be using multiple subwoofers placed and set up per Dr. Geddes' methods, prior to running ARC.)
ARC does let you select the equivalent of "LFE+Main" in the Target Set-Up Menu, though most will recommend you first listen to ARC with the original recommendation before you begin tweaking. I ended up reducing the Room Gain setting, and set the Sub from "Auto" to "Flat", left all other settings unchanged.

(2) Is WinXP installed on the latest version of Parallels still considered a no-go for ARC? Having to install Boot Camp would be a little annoying, though I guess I would do it if I had to, assuming I can find my old XP disk.
Sorry, can't help you here, I'm using a PC/Vista machine without issue.

(3) Does Dolby Volume offer an option for loudness compensation (i.e. bass boost at lower volumes that progressively declines as one approaches "reference"), without any dynamic compression? That is to say, is there a Dolby Volume analog to running Audyssey DynamicEQ while leaving Audyssey Dynamic Volume off on a box equipped with the Audyssey suite? Snark if you want, but I've found Audyssey DynamicEQ really helps expand the "ideal volume" from a point to a range with much music. It's the most impressive part of their software suite, IMO.
You can use DV for frequency compensation without enabling dynamic compression. I use this setting for TV viewing, I leave DV off when listening to music or watching BluRay/DVDs.

(4) Any issues in using a Harmony One to control it?
I use a Harmony One without issue, only problem I ran into is it takes about 10 seconds for the MRX to power up and respond to commands, so for macros you need to allow enough time for the MRX to power up.

(5) Is there any reason at all to look at the 500 or 700 over the 300, given that I have a fairly simple system, with the following five source components:
-Two A/V HDMI inputs (Oppo BDP-83 for DVD-A, AppleTV)
-One component that uses HDMI for video and optical for audio (my old MacBook, which is now a media server)
-One component that uses optical for audio and nothing for video (the OTA HDTV tuner in my TV)
-One stereo analog source (phono preamp)
I've never used HD radio on my dead Denon box, and obviously, I can get internet radio off of the AppleTV and Pandora off the MacBook.
Also, while I'm currently using smaller speakers, when I move I will pull out my reference LCR mains, which are 96dB/W/m (bespoke design with Dual Concentric driver from Tannoy System 12 DMT II). But at any rate, the difference in power seems too small to care about, given that the '300 tested at ~83W/5ch/8Ω and ~165W/2ch/4Ω, and under the same conditions by the same reviewer the '700 was a whopping 0.54dBW higher into 8Ω with five channels driven ~1.5dBW into 4Ω with 2 channels driven.

I have the 500, but I would think the 300 would be enough for your setup if you're using 96dB efficient speakers.
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post #8400 of 16559 Old 01-01-2012, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdS View Post

Couldn't answer all of your questions, but I can answer most of them, see below. I went from a Denon 4306 to the MRX500, consider it to be an upgrade, and am very satisfied with the MRX

Thanks for your answers!

Interesting that you went to the Anthem from a 4306. I had a Denon 4306 before I heard what flexibility Audyssey DynamicEQ offered, which led me to trade it in for a 4308 after Denon released that $100 feature upgrade to add DynamicEQ to the 4308. Never thought I would actually like a fancy loudness button, but it works very well to make music sound convincing at lower volume levels. If Dolby Volume works broadly similarly, I bet the MRX would make me very happy.

I'm curious, did you feel like you lost much headroom with the Anthems? The Denon's amps are considerably stouter, with third party measurements showing ~150W/7ch/8Ω, ~175W/5ch/8Ω, ~220W/2ch/8Ω, and almost 350W/2ch/4Ω.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdS View Post

ARC does let you select the equivalent of "LFE+Main" in the Target Set-Up Menu, though most will recommend you first listen to ARC with the original recommendation before you begin tweaking.

The way you phrase that it suggests to me that ARC is even more powerful. Am I reading too much into your words, or can one really do something like set the subs to (say) 150Hz, the mains to 50Hz, and effect a blend over that region while still giving the mains a degree of protection from over-excursion? If ARC allows that, that feature alone is worth the price of admission!

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdS View Post

I use a Harmony One without issue, only problem I ran into is it takes about 10 seconds for the MRX to power up and respond to commands, so for macros you need to allow enough time for the MRX to power up.

10 seconds to boot up? Is that from standby, or switching it on by another means (say, a signal-sensing strip, with the TV in the "driver's seat.")

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdS View Post

I have the 500, but I would think the 300 would be enough for your setup if you're using 96dB efficient speakers.

So, they are in fact identical, except for some internet radio/USB streaming features and amp/powersupply? It really sounds like the 300 gives a lot of bang for the buck. I wonder what I'm missing.

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