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post #271 of 1314 Old 10-15-2011, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

[L]ike DPLIIz and DTS Neo:X, Auro-3D can supposedly function as both|either a (single ended) "blind upmixer", or discrete encode+decode process, with the encoded content still backward compatible PCM 5.1.

[So if Barco gets a decent installed base of Auro-3D decoders|expanders into large screen 3D venues in the next year or two, I expect Cameron wouldn't hesitate to add an Auro-3D encoded version of Avatar 2 -- having previously gone to the effort of creating 18 different 'versions' of the first Avatar movie for the domestic market alone! ]

However, it seems that an Auro-3D encoded movie soundtrack is already being mixed for theatrical presentation according to this quote from page 68 of the September 2011 edition of Pro Sound News Europe:
Quote:


'In autumn 2011, Barco will install an Auro-3D system in reference cinema theaters worldwide – one in each continent to start with – which will act as pioneer venues for 3D sound. “In January 2012, a triple-A Hollywood movie production will be released with the Auro-3D format,” enthuses [CEO of the Galaxy Group, Wilfried] Van Baelen.'


So now I guess we have to wait until January 2012 to discover which "triple-A Hollywood movie production" is being hyped here!

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post #272 of 1314 Old 10-15-2011, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

However, it seems that an Auro-3D encoded movie soundtrack is already being mixed for theatrical presentation according to this quote from page 68 of the September 2011 edition of Pro Sound News Europe:

So now I guess we have to wait until January 2012 to discover which "triple-A Hollywood movie production" is being hyped here!

I vote they put auro-3d in my local IMAX
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post #273 of 1314 Old 10-19-2011, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

So now I guess we have to wait until January 2012 to discover which "triple-A Hollywood movie production" is being hyped here!

Looks like it will be a Lucasfilm production about the Tuskegee Airmen called 'Red Tails'.

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post #274 of 1314 Old 10-19-2011, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Looks like it will be a Lucasfilm production about the Tuskegee Airmen called 'Red Tails'.

Good call!
. . . and from the Barco press release...
Quote:
"Barco's Auro-3D® 11.1 cinema audio format selected by Lucasfilm Ltd. for the release of 'Red Tails' "


Now where will be my nearest Auro-3D equipped movie theater?

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post #275 of 1314 Old 10-19-2011, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

. . . and from the Barco press release...

Already linked in my post (click on the title of the film).

Here's some product info: http://www.barco.com/en/product/2439

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post #276 of 1314 Old 10-19-2011, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Already linked in my post (click on the title of the film).Here's some product info: http://www.barco.com/en/product/2439

Sorry! Didn't mean to 'uncredit' you . . . but for some reason it's still hard to see the link in your post on my screen until I roll over the title...?!

By coincidence: As part of a speaker replacement that got underway last week, I started wiring one home system for the Auro-3D 13.1(6) speaker configuration (Auro-3D decoder equipped AVRs to be available by 2015 perhaps?) . . . on the assumption that the 2D 'PCM downmix' for future [and still hypothetical!] Auro-3D enhanced BDs might equally well be 6.1 or 7.1 rather than the 5.1 Lucasfilm is using for [this] theatrical release. Either way, it's all good news for the speaker manufacturers (and for NHK, as wider acceptance of 3D audio formats could mean easier acceptance of 'reasonable' downmixes from Hamasaki 22.2 next decade!)

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post #277 of 1314 Old 10-19-2011, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Now where will be my nearest Auro-3D equipped movie theater?

Of the three beta sites in North America, I think one is in Miami and two are in California (hopefully one will be here in Los Angeles).

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post #278 of 1314 Old 10-19-2011, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Of the three beta sites in North America, I think one is in Miami and two are in California (hopefully one will be here in Los Angeles).

So I guess we're looking for IMAX (or perhaps IMAX-like) theaters that have undertaken a 'stealth' sound system update 'recently...?!

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post #279 of 1314 Old 10-24-2011, 06:38 PM
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Just a thought:

IIRC, the 'original' DTS Neo:X system, as demonstrated at CES 2009, offered 'something' similar' to (but not quite!) a 5.x|7.x_Standard+2xFrontHeight+2xRearHeight speaker configuration . . . which seems to have been discarded in favor of the 5.x|7.x_Standard+2xFrontHeight+2xFrontWide speaker configuration available in [2011] AVRs primarily on the basis of 'easier user installation'.

I wonder if there might not be some added value to AVRs that offered a [setup time] choice between two alternative Neo:X speaker configurations, i.e., 5.x|7.x_Standard+2xFrontHeight+2xRearHeight or 5.x|7.x_Standard+2xFrontHeight+2xFrontWide.

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post #280 of 1314 Old 10-27-2011, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Of the three [Auro-3D] beta sites in North America, I think one is in Miami and two are in California (hopefully one will be here in Los Angeles).

It appears that you'll get your wish...

From an October 27, 2011, press release, "Barco teams up with Datasat and THX® for commercial roll-out of Auro-3D® cinema sound":
Quote:


"Auro-3D® is quickly gaining traction with leading exhibitors on three continents. The system has already been installed at Jam Hall Cinemas (St. Petersburg, Russia); Regal Cinemas (Los Angeles, US); and Wangfujing Cinema (Changsha, China) with additional installations in progress around the globe."


[I can't help wondering if unsophisticated consumers who watch|hear "Red Tails" in an Auro-3D capable movie theater might not develop 'unrealistic expectations' for the audio experience they will get from the (2012) 20th Century Fox BD release! ]

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post #281 of 1314 Old 10-27-2011, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Just a thought:

IIRC, the 'original' DTS Neo:X system, as demonstrated at CES 2009, offered 'something' similar' to (but not quite!) a 5.x|7.x_Standard+2xFrontHeight+2xRearHeight speaker configuration . . . which seems to have been discarded in favor of the 5.x|7.x_Standard+2xFrontHeight+2xFrontWide speaker configuration available in [2011] AVRs primarily on the basis of 'easier user installation'.

I wonder if there might not be some added value to AVRs that offered a [setup time] choice between two alternative Neo:X speaker configurations, i.e., 5.x|7.x_Standard+2xFrontHeight+2xRearHeight or 5.x|7.x_Standard+2xFrontHeight+2xFrontWide.


Basically a marketing numbers game between Dolby & DTS & Audyssey..
Dolby has been caught flatfooted multiple times in the consumer (and cinema) biz...
And a AVR brand cannot offer all of the demoed multichannel modes unless the software is available from the audio DSP processor supplier. And to create the software and port it over to a audio DSP processor with enough resources is expensive considering programming time, debugging, validation and final certification.

Just my $0.02..
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post #282 of 1314 Old 10-27-2011, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Basically a marketing numbers game between Dolby & DTS & Audyssey.. Dolby has been caught flatfooted multiple times in the consumer (and cinema) biz...

Given that we already see DPLIIz mass-marketed in Sony AVRs priced as low as (MSRP) US$250, and in Samsung HTIB systems (but we do NOT see the competitor Audyssey DSX and DTS Neo:X post processors equally widely established), I'm not sure that Dolby would necessarily agree that their "relatively simpler" front-heights-only foray into 3D audio has been unsuccessful...?!

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post #283 of 1314 Old 10-27-2011, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Given that we already see DPLIIz mass-marketed in Sony AVRs priced as low as (MSRP) US$250, and in Samsung HTIB systems (but we do NOT see the competitor Audyssey DSX and DTS Neo:X post processors equally widely established), I'm not sure that Dolby would necessarily agree that their "relatively simpler" front-heights-only foray into 3D audio has been unsuccessful...?!

Flat-footed is related to market timing..
Dolby is still considered the grandfather of surround sound...
Regarding the Blu-ray media..
How many Dolby Tru-Audio releases are out there vs. DTS Master Audio...
Next question..
Regarding post-processing modes, another subject as the Dolby royalty structure is massive, complicated and expensive compared to DTS or Audyssey..
Thats the primary reason, capable software teams @ Harman & Yamaha continue to develop their own post-processing modes..
Are they better?
Maybe, at least certain listeners think so..

Just my $0.02..
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post #284 of 1314 Old 10-27-2011, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Regarding post-processing modes, another subject as the Dolby royalty structure is massive, complicated and expensive compared to DTS or Audyssey..
That's the primary reason, capable software teams @ Harman & Yamaha continue to develop their own post-processing modes..

If the costs and terms were so onerous as you allege, one would expect the Yamaha and Harman algorithms would displace Dolby's in those products. But they don't -- they coexist.

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post #285 of 1314 Old 10-27-2011, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

If the costs and terms were so onerous as you allege, one would expect the Yamaha and Harman algorithms would displace Dolby's in those products. But they don't -- they coexist.

Keep in mind...
That for Harman, their IP is used extensively in their infotainment platforms for OE cars. And this business segment does 20x the biz for the consumer group..

Just my $0.02..
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post #286 of 1314 Old 10-27-2011, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Keep in mind...
That for Harman, their IP is used extensively in their infotainment platforms for OE cars. And this business segment does 20x the biz for the consumer group..

Sure. Except we were talking about AVRs and HTiBs.

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post #287 of 1314 Old 10-27-2011, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Sure. Except we were talking about AVRs and HTiBs.

For example..
Their Logic 7 s/w though originally developed by Lexicon, found its way into HK AVRs but extensively throughout their OE auto platforms since these were primarily audio-oriented..
Lexus, Toyota, Chrysler, Buick, Hyundai, Mercedes and BMW all utilized Logic 7 s/w in some form of execution..

IMHO..
Considering the # of vehicles sold that is an extensive base for $ amortization..

Just my $0.02..
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post #288 of 1314 Old 04-13-2012, 05:34 AM
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So after 6 months has gone by since the last post where are we at with the DTS Neo:X and Audessey DSX comparisons.

Is the jury still out as to which one delivers the better effect?

Is the standard 7.1 setup still the better option to stick with?

Are there any newer AVR or Pre/Pro's that can offer 11.2 now?

Currently have a 7.2 setup and was seriously considering going 11.2 and had read all posts in this entire thread tonight and just as it was getting closer to present time the posts just stopped.

Would love to hear the latest opinions, thoughts and ideas.

cheers

Ian
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post #289 of 1314 Old 07-01-2012, 03:46 AM
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Hi there,

Onkyo-Europe announcend their 2012 AVR lineup: http://www.uk.onkyo.com/en/products/tx-nr5010-83033.html

Models 3010 and 5010 will have 11.4 Pre-Out smile.gif

Greetings from Germany
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post #290 of 1314 Old 07-17-2012, 06:15 PM
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I'm using Onkyo TX-NR1009.

When I tried Neo:X Cinema, it sounded more dynamic than Audyssey DSX. Though the 1009's screen showed all 9 speakers active & when I pressed on the Display button on the remote, it also showed "9.1H" for Height speakers, I didn't hear any sound from the FH speakers even when I climbed up to check the FH speakers in Neo:X Cinema mode, for any blu ray movies (e.g. Thor, Avatar, Transformers). Audyssey DSX mode did not have this problem. Is there something wrong?

Thanks.

(I've done Audyssey Full Calibration. Speaker set-up is 9.2 with SB + FH, & the indiv speaker vol levels sounded correctly)
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post #291 of 1314 Old 07-17-2012, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Ong View Post

I didn't hear any sound from the FH speakers even when I climbed up to check the FH speakers in Neo:X Cinema mode, for any blu ray movies (e.g. Thor, Avatar, Transformers). Audyssey DSX mode did not have this problem. Is there something wrong?
There is no question that DSX puts out a lot more audio into the height speakers than Neo:X, since it is just duplicating the L/R channels. OTOH, Neo:X is actively selecting what to put there, but even so, those sounds still exist in the other speakers, so their presence may be masked. When I did my tests the height effect was not obvious at all, but the cues that were there were audible with the rest of the speakers off. I used various 5.1 trailers, nothing special, but with directional effects.

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post #292 of 1314 Old 07-18-2012, 02:43 AM
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^^
Roger,

How does NeoX compare with D PLIIz? Any major differences or about the same effect?

Also, what's the thoughts on positioning height speakers high (near ceiling) but in front (or forward) of the mains? Sort of a height/width hybridized position. Would this position more emulate an overhead effect or just mess up front stage imaging?

One owner in the Denon AVP thread has a pic showing height speakers directly above his side surrounds & that got me thinking of other possible positions if it wouldn't harm imaging.

Steve
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post #293 of 1314 Old 07-18-2012, 06:08 AM
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Good morning gentlemen,

I'm building a system 9.1 and wonder what the best setting.

standard 7.1 plus FH
standard 7.1 plus FW
standard 5.1 plus FH and FW (without SW)

I'm using an onkyo receiver and using dts neo:x for movies.

thx

Ronald
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post #294 of 1314 Old 07-18-2012, 06:55 AM
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If you are using an Onkyo xx008 or xx09 AVR series from the 4 digit range, you can hook up all 11 speakers (even though only 9 can be active at any one time) and try the different configurations of 9.1 to test which one you prefer. The xx08 pre/pro however doesn't have that flexibility.

I personally would not skip out on Surround Back because Dolby is using a native 7.1 mix in cinemas so we now have more native 7.1 mixes on BRs.

So that means either wide or heights.

I haven't had a chance to test Neo:X yet but if DSX 11 channels is any indication, I get less from heights than from wides. Only once in a while do I find heights noticeable. Wides are usually more apparent.

On the other hand, you can't enable Dolby IIz if you don't have heights...
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post #295 of 1314 Old 07-18-2012, 07:07 AM
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thx for replay my question.
I have a onkyo 3009 and I am inclined to use the FH

Ronald
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post #296 of 1314 Old 07-18-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
Roger,
How does NeoX compare with D PLIIz? Any major differences or about the same effect?
The mechanism and the effect are rather different.
Quote:
Also, what's the thoughts on positioning height speakers high (near ceiling) but in front (or forward) of the mains? Sort of a height/width hybridized position. Would this position more emulate an overhead effect or just mess up front stage imaging?
Look at it as the direction of the source. Moving the speaker forward along the ceiling is the same as increasing the angle of incidence. The AVR will apply whatever delay needed to align the time arrivals. This may be necessary just to get the 45-deg elevation that Dolby mentions IIRC. Should work fine. These speakers do not often carry any "point source" sounds. Usually it is ambience of some kind.

Deadwood Atmos theater [HTOM]
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #297 of 1314 Old 07-18-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Roger,
How does NeoX compare with D PLIIz? Any major differences or about the same effect?
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

The mechanism and the effect are rather different.


Hi Roger,

 

If you have the time, would you be able to expand on the way in which the mechanism and effect are different. Some time back, your help on explaining the different mechanisms and effects between Audyssey DSX and Dolby PLIIz helped me decide on the latter as my preferred means of enabling some 'height effects'. I'd love to read your perspective on Neo:X vs PLIIz. Many thanks in advance.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

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post #298 of 1314 Old 07-18-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Hi Roger, If you have the time, would you be able to expand on the way in which the mechanism and effect are different. Some time back, your help on explaining the different mechanisms and effects between Audyssey DSX and Dolby PLIIz helped me decide on the latter as my preferred means of enabling some 'height effects'. I'd love to read your perspective on Neo:X vs PLIIz. Many thanks in advance. Cheers, Keith

Me too please, thank you Roger smile.gif

An other question: What happens when a blu ray movie encoded with 5.1 and 7.1 with DD True HD or DTS Master Audio non-compressed, using bitstream and I apply the Dolby Pro IIx to convert the 5.1 to 7.1 or the IIz to up-convert 5.1 to 9.1? Does that mean the sound is now compressed and the bit rate lowered and it sounds more like a DVD?
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post #299 of 1314 Old 07-18-2012, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post


Me too please, thank you Roger smile.gif
An other question: What happens when a blu ray movie encoded with 5.1 and 7.1 with DD True HD or DTS Master Audio non-compressed, using bitstream and I apply the Dolby Pro IIx to convert the 5.1 to 7.1 or the IIz to up-convert 5.1 to 9.1? Does that mean the sound is now compressed and the bit rate lowered and it sounds more like a DVD?

Not at all. DTS-HD is a sound codec. PLIIz is a DSP. Think of the latter as being 'on top of' the codec.

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post #300 of 1314 Old 07-18-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apelbaum View Post

Good morning gentlemen,

I'm building a system 9.1 and wonder what the best setting.

standard 7.1 plus FH
standard 7.1 plus FW
standard 5.1 plus FH and FW (without SW)

I'm using an onkyo receiver and using dts neo:x for movies.

thx

Ronald

According to Chris at Audyssey, he recommends starting with a 5.1 setup then adding FW, FH and rear surround in that order.

So Standard 5.1 plus FW and FH would be best from your 3 choices.
AndrewS99 is offline  
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