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post #451 of 1283 Old 11-27-2012, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

I finally got my 4520 and absolutely love it.  The upgraded Audyessey calibration has really improved room sonics, especially for the 2 subs.  I really doubt though that MDA/Atmos will be upgradeable options via downloads.  But I don't expect any BR releases with those formats for at least 2 to 3 years at soonest, and even then it will likely be very limited initially.  So in my projection I don't see these interesting formats having much impact for another 3-4 years and by then with other audio advancements I would be willing to upgrade from the 4520.

Yes you are probably right

ah so, the never ending upgrade-itis, I understand, glad to hear the 4520 exceeded your expectations, I'm looking forward to mine, and trying all DSX vs PLIiZ vs DTS Neo-X in my 11.x set-up
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post #452 of 1283 Old 11-27-2012, 06:50 PM
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all this talk about the possibility of MDA (be it as SRS or Atmos) to be released in 2014 making me think twice about upgrading to a new receiver... but then again, even with no improvement I tend to upgrade my receiver once a year... I'm somewhat a dumbass that way. biggrin.gif

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post #453 of 1283 Old 11-27-2012, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

all this talk about the possibility of MDA (be it as SRS or Atmos) to be released in 2014 making me think twice about upgrading to a new receiver... but then again, even with no improvement I tend to upgrade my receiver once a year... I'm somewhat a dumbass that way. biggrin.gif

If we knew how many AV enthusiasts are actually running a 5.1 Standard plus 2x Front Heights (or more complex) speaker configuration, i.e., at least the basic DPLIIz layout, we might guess how revenue productive it could be for a CEMs-plus-studios initiative to push 3D audio into the consumer marketplace...?! cool.gif

...After all, it might be "relatively cheap" to remix The Star Wars Saga into some new 3D audio format, but there's not much point to doing so if the discs won't sell because there are only very few consumers who are willing to install sufficient speakers to take advantage of that new format...?! eek.gif
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post #454 of 1283 Old 11-27-2012, 08:14 PM
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I think the market for greater than 5.1 audio will be a very niche market for a long time to come. Many wives often don't even like 5 speakers, and running wires in walls for extra speakers is not something that most "average Joes" are really interested in doing.

My wife tolerates our combined HT/family room with all the speakers, but only because she gets final say on decorating in every other room in the house...
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post #455 of 1283 Old 11-27-2012, 08:45 PM
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I think the market for greater than 5.1 audio will be a very niche market for a long time to come. Many wives often don't even like 5 speakers, and running wires in walls for extra speakers is not something that most "average Joes" are really interested in doing.
My wife tolerates our combined HT/family room with all the speakers, but only because she gets final say on decorating in every other room in the house...

Ah yes, I have the same agreement with my wife. I get final say for the bonus room theater, and she gets final say on every other room in the house.

I have spent the last few months buying additional small speakers for an 11.2 future upgrade. Three reside behind my DIY acoustic transparent screen. Soon I will install the height speakers which will just be sitting idle for awhile. I might install the wides but I am not certain. When I built the theater room 14 years ago I did run in wall speaker wire for all of this. I just did not want to have to wish I had done it, I did do it. This last week I pulled the trigger on a used 6 channel power amp to add to my 5 channel power amp. They now occupy a shelf each in my electronics closet. Under those two is a 2 channel Hafler DH200 for sub work. For now I am not running more than 7.2 but I will be ready when the time comes for 11.2 I probably will not upgrade my receiver that I am using as a preamp until the new formats become available. It is an older HK 525 and is doing very well thank you. Looking forward to this sound upgrade though.

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post #456 of 1283 Old 11-28-2012, 12:24 AM
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Glad I have a tolerant wife... have 12 (10 in use) speakers for stereo in the livingroom and 15 speakers in our little tv-room... and they're all QUITE visible. It will actually be in the theater that they will be the least visible of all the places. tongue.gif

Fortunately my gear has quite the capability, otherwise I'd worry she'd burn a tweeter on me while I was away from home from playing too loud. biggrin.gif

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post #457 of 1283 Old 11-28-2012, 12:31 PM
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Soon I will install the height speakers which will just be sitting idle for awhile. I might install the wides but I am not certain.

Personally I feel that wides make the biggest impact on having a wonderfully seamless soundstage. Heights are OK but really don't seem to get as much content as wides. I typically use Audyssey DSX, not Neo:X, because I prefer the DSX soundstage on my setup. But both are way better (IMO) than the standard L/C/R setup.
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post #458 of 1283 Old 11-28-2012, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

all this talk about the possibility of MDA (be it as SRS or Atmos) to be released in 2014 making me think twice about upgrading to a new receiver... but then again, even with no improvement I tend to upgrade my receiver once a year... I'm somewhat a dumbass that way. biggrin.gif

Upgrade every year! Ouch pricey I tried to do that only when there is a major improvement on technology and sound, every 5-7 years, otherwise it is not worth it except for sources every three years. Speaker wise the 800Diamonds 2 hopefully will last me 20 years smile.gif
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post #459 of 1283 Old 11-28-2012, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrennem View Post

Personally I feel that wides make the biggest impact on having a wonderfully seamless soundstage. Heights are OK but really don't seem to get as much content as wides. I typically use Audyssey DSX, not Neo:X, because I prefer the DSX soundstage on my setup. But both are way better (IMO) than the standard L/C/R setup.
Just curious, how are your main speakers positioned wrt MLP, as in 0/30/90/150 degrees?

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post #460 of 1283 Old 11-29-2012, 08:23 AM
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Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrennem View Post

... I typically use Audyssey DSX, not Neo:X, because I prefer the DSX soundstage on my setup. But both are way better (IMO) than the standard L/C/R setup.

Having a 11.2 install since 3 years now, initially I was using DSX (W+H adequately angled) with an Onkyo 5508 and then Denon A100+4311. I really liked and advocated the audio end result (as Roger may remember wink.gif ).

Today I own the new Denon 4520 and with this latest processor, I clearly prefer DTS Neo X 11 Cinema or Music - depending on listening contexts -, over just plain Audyssey DSX.

My 2€c,

Hugo
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post #461 of 1283 Old 11-29-2012, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi,Having a 11.2 install since 3 years now, initially I was using DSX (W+H adequately angled) with an Onkyo 5508 and then Denon A100+4311. I really liked and advocated the audio end result (as Roger may remember wink.gif ). Today I own the new Denon 4520 and with this latest processor, I clearly prefer DTS Neo X 11 Cinema or Music - depending on listening contexts -, over just plain Audyssey DSX.
My 2€c, Hugo

Cool, I am curious if you had to do 9.1 only would you choose Wide or High!
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post #462 of 1283 Old 11-29-2012, 09:06 AM
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Hi,

Not an easy answer, but if I HAD, it would be Wides. wink.gif

Hugo
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post #463 of 1283 Old 11-29-2012, 09:26 AM
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Cool, I am curious if you had to do 9.1 only would you choose Wide or High!

 

Quote:
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Hi,
Not an easy answer, but if I HAD, it would be Wides. wink.gif
Hugo

I have the 4520 now for about a week, only one BR, Avengers, and the rest HDTV. So far I've only set up DTS NeoX.

The heights had more, albeit still relatively small, impact on that BR compared to HDTV, but again the BR was DTS MA, and HDTV is only DD.  The wides in both formats though do add to a greater spacial impact or a larger , more involving soundfield.  I'm more a video than audio person so my descriptions are rather coarse. 

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post #464 of 1283 Old 11-29-2012, 10:25 AM
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I'm glad I ran into this thread. I haven't experienced Atmos yet (was going to see Rise of the Guardians, but the theatre is showing Life of Pi in Atmos instead) but I'm excited to see The Hobbit when it comes out. I hope to start finishing our basement next year, including building a small dedicated theatre, and I will at least run wire for 11.2 +2 ceiling (unless information comes out to the contrary). I'm 100% on board with more speakers, especially in a dedicated room where you can hide them in walls or in columns, if it leads to a better, more enveloping experience. I'm a little worried that my room will be too small to take advantage, but that's a bridge I'll cross when I come to it. Anyway, it seems like the timing may work out well for me, because if we do start next year it won't be a quick build, so by the time I'm close to having a finished room we will probably know a lot more about 4k and MDA. If things were close, but not ready for market when the room is ready to go, I would probably start out with my old Denon from the living room and wait for the new tech.
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post #465 of 1283 Old 11-29-2012, 10:41 PM
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the theatre is showing Life of Pi in Atmos instead
Just saw that movie in Atmos a few days ago. Well worth the experience, since the sound mix made good use of Atmos.

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post #466 of 1283 Old 11-29-2012, 11:29 PM
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Been messing around last few days since getting my NR818 with Neo:X and DSX

Does anyone else find that DSX with wides adds a ton more spaciousness to the room versus Neo:X? Something about Neo:X just seems more constrained and I get occasional "glitches" in sound while gaming that I don't with DSX.

Anyone have similar results or is it something with my settings?
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post #467 of 1283 Old 12-04-2012, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post

Glad I have a tolerant wife... have 12 (10 in use) speakers for stereo in the livingroom and 15 speakers in our little tv-room... and they're all QUITE visible. It will actually be in the theater that they will be the least visible of all the places. Fortunately my gear has quite the capability, otherwise I'd worry she'd burn a tweeter on me while I was away from home from playing too loud. biggrin.gif

Cool, your wife is a keeper good for you!
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post #468 of 1283 Old 12-04-2012, 10:40 PM
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Hi, Guys

I'm thinking to re-set my Onkyo 1009 cos' I find there's little Front Height sound when I'm using the Neo:X mode, even for blu-rays such as Ghost Protocol, Avengers, Transformers DOTM as compared with using Audyssey DSX mode.

I use Audyssey DSX as my default surround mode but whenever I want to try out Neo:X, I find it lacking in FH sound & not sure if it's due to my Onkyo 1009 software error & I've been thinking to reset it.

Thanks.

Ethan
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post #469 of 1283 Old 12-05-2012, 03:23 AM
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DTS:X is known to be much less aggressive concerning the contents for the additional front height and wide speakers.
This additional content is derived by a special algorithm called a matrix decoder and everyone uses its own algorithm with different results.
Some prefer DTS:X others do like Audyssey DSX better depending on their personal preferences.
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post #470 of 1283 Old 12-05-2012, 03:34 AM
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Some prefer DTS:X others do like Audyssey DSX better depending on their personal preferences.

And on how the two happen to suit the room, or rather speaker/room-combination, in question....

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post #471 of 1283 Old 12-05-2012, 04:06 AM
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+1
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post #472 of 1283 Old 12-07-2012, 06:34 AM
 
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anyone tried expendables 2 with Audyssey or pro logic z is the extra info retrieved or is the Neo x info not seen?
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post #473 of 1283 Old 12-07-2012, 07:00 AM
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I played Expendables 2 on my 4810 with DSX 11 channels.

The test tones are in the "vicinity" of the channels but with slight leakage to the other channels. Others who have NeoX say the DSX feels more expansive.
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post #474 of 1283 Old 12-07-2012, 07:18 AM
 
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Thanks for the info, deciding if I want to pop on a new receiver or wait.

Interesting review here
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news/article/exclusive-the-expendables-2--111-neo-x-audio-review/13896
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post #475 of 1283 Old 12-07-2012, 04:13 PM
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using the Dolby Digital from the rental disc, the PL IIz decodes the NEO:X matrixed sound no problem.

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post #476 of 1283 Old 12-07-2012, 05:45 PM
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Does the Netflix Blu-ray of Expendables 2 have 7.1 HDMA?

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post #477 of 1283 Old 12-08-2012, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

using the Dolby Digital from the rental disc, the PL IIz decodes the NEO:X matrixed sound no problem.
No, PLIIz can NOT decode Neo:X matrixed channels properly.

Neo:X encodes its Wide channels by matrixing them into the Front channels and Surround channels. PLIIz doesn't do Wide channels, so those Neo:X channels are never decoded by PLIIz.

Neo:X encodes its Height channels by matrixing them into the Front channels and Surround-Back channels. For its Height channels, PLIIz extracts decorrelated (out of phase) information from the Surround channels exclusively. So those Neo:X channels are never decoded by PLIIz.

If the rental disc you mentioned only had Dolby Digital, then it was limited to 5.1 channels. In which case, it didn't even have Neo:X encoded Height channels to begin with, since that requires a 7.0 or 7.1 soundtrack (Neo"X Heights are matrixed using Surround-Back channels, not Surround channels). So I don't know what height information you thought PLIIz was decoding, but it certainly wasn't Neo:X encoded content.

With all that in mind, I don't see how you can believe that PLIIz decodes Neo:X matrixed content with "no problems".

Sanjay
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post #478 of 1283 Old 12-08-2012, 01:11 AM
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Thanks for that. Now I know I can make som use for my two spare matrix decoders. cool.gif

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post #479 of 1283 Old 12-08-2012, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrennem View Post

I think the market for greater than 5.1 audio will be a very niche market for a long time to come. Many wives often don't even like 5 speakers, and running wires in walls for extra speakers is not something that most "average Joes" are really interested in doing.
My wife tolerates our combined HT/family room with all the speakers, but only because she gets final say on decorating in every other room in the house...

Hence the birth of the "man cave!"

I think DTS Neo:X is a real game changer. It really enhances the home theater experience. I'm looking for 11.1 and up of discrete channels. My setup is pretty spartan compared to some other affficionados. But with an 11.1 speaker setup and really only 9.1 fully functioning (receiver is Pioneer Elite SC-65) - Dolby IIz and DTS Neo:X has brought a whole new level of enjoyment. If it were adopted more and if studios would dedicate more discrete soundtracks to bluray discs - - it would sell a lot of receivers and speakers - - but I don't know if the manufacturers appreciate this. Maybe they're all focused on gaming.

And mama really enjoys 3D movies with a nice soundtrack. She doesn't even want to go the movies anymore. What's the point, she says? She watches her TV mostly upstairs while yours truly is deep in the cave. smile.gif

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post #480 of 1283 Old 12-09-2012, 08:48 AM
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I also have the sc65. what do you guys think about using dialogue enhancement? my rear seating is a bit far from the center, so I bought some heights and am routing the dialogue enhancement to those, since I don't want to mix it with my mains. trying to figure out if that's better than just raising the level of the center. any thoughts on that?
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