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Receivers, Amps, and Processors > DTS Neo.X
sdurani's Avatar sdurani 01:07 PM 08-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Inclusion of a Top Front Center (TpFC) in a speaker configuration has obvious advantages when content is discretely mixed|rendered for that location, but I do wonder if there is a problem with upmixing for height effects while simultaneously trying to keep voice content locked into the (middle layer) Front Center (FC) speaker...?
Olive mentioned that the centre height was more optional than the other height. When they were doing blind testing, they found that the centre height was useful about half the time. Keep in mind that this is based on upmixing using their proprietary surround processing, not sending discrete content to the centre height.

SoundChex's Avatar SoundChex 01:45 PM 08-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Inclusion of a Top Front Center (TpFC) in a speaker configuration has obvious advantages when content is discretely mixed|rendered for that location, but I do wonder if there is a problem with upmixing for height effects while simultaneously trying to keep voice content locked into the (middle layer) Front Center (FC) speaker...?
Olive mentioned that the centre height was more optional than the other height. When they were doing blind testing, they found that the centre height was useful about half the time. Keep in mind that this is based on upmixing using their proprietary surround processing, not sending discrete content to the centre height.
I'm certainly willing to employ a center height speaker|amp even if it is advantageous to do so 'only some of the time' in an upmix environment . . . provided there is no actual downside to doing so. And I guess we have to wait to see if there will be discrete content available in the near future which might make use of a center height speaker...?!

And it is perhaps noteworthy that the imm sound 14.1 'minimum recommended theatrical configuration' for object audio playback did not mandate a front center height speaker...


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sdurani's Avatar sdurani 02:09 PM 08-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

I'm certainly willing to employ a center height speaker|amp even if it is advantageous to do so 'only some of the time' in an upmix environment . . . provided there is no actual downside to doing so. And I guess we have to wait to see if there will be discrete content available in the near future which might make use of a center height speaker...?!
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Sure, I'll take some improvement over no improvement. As for downside, I place speakers based on what makes psychoacoustic sense rather than mapping each source channel. For example: when EX/ES soundtracks used to have a mono surround-back channel, I never played it back through a single rear speaker, always through two speakers spread at least 60 degrees apart. So even if there ends up being discrete centre height content, I'll only place a speaker there if it doesn't cause problems.
ss9001's Avatar ss9001 02:18 PM 08-09-2013
all this discussion about MDA / Atmos / Auro3D makes me very eager to see at least 1 of them make it into an AVR/prepro...and soon smile.gif

I would love to see someone implement true overhead effects in home audio environments.
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 03:15 PM 08-09-2013
^^^^^

Umm, yeah. We ALL want this. biggrin.gif
SoundChex's Avatar SoundChex 05:36 PM 08-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Umm, yeah. We ALL want this. biggrin.gif

And by "ALL" I'm guessing you mean the majority of the 20 people who posted to this thread in the last 3 months...?!

Perhaps a more critical issue is just how few of the other 6 billion on this planet care! cool.gif
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Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 05:49 PM 08-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

And by "ALL" I'm guessing you mean the majority of the 20 people who posted to this thread in the last 3 months...?!

Perhaps a more critical issue is just how few of the other 6 billion on this planet care! cool.gif
_

Exactly. The cool crowd. cool.gif
oldgame's Avatar oldgame 07:34 AM 08-10-2013
I am new to this forum and this is my first post. But I only listen to NEO X with movies since it came out. I have an Integra 50.4, and I love it. It does wonders with anyting from 2 to 7 channels. I run 9.2 with heights. I will try to read every post and see what you guys are talking about and try to catch up. One thing I noticed and havn't read anywhere is that on the Expendable 2 and Dredd blu-ray there is an 11.1 test. NEO X plays everything perfect but if you use PLIIX the test tones do not come out of the back surrounds, they stay in the sides. I found that interesting and I also don't like using PLIIX.
wse's Avatar wse 09:56 AM 08-10-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

And by "ALL" I'm guessing you mean the majority of the 20 people who posted to this thread in the last 3 months...?! Perhaps a more critical issue is just how few of the other 6 billion on this planet care! cool.gif
_

They could care less unless they are audio nuts!
SoundChex's Avatar SoundChex 10:17 AM 08-10-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

all this discussion about MDA / Atmos / Auro3D makes me very eager to see at least 1 of them make it into an AVR/prepro...and soon smile.gif I would love to see someone implement true overhead effects in home audio environments.

The Auro Technologies NEWSLETTER JUNE 2013 (link) includes the following text...
Quote:
HOME ENTERTAINMENT:
After a successful launch at Stassen HiFi, Auro-3D® will soon be available for home entertainment use. In the course of July 2013, Auro Technologies will publish a list of AV Receiver brands that will contain the Auro-3D® playback functionalities and bring the immersive sound experience to the home cinemas and living rooms.

However, it's now mid August, and I haven't seen the aforementioned list, although in the August 5, 2013, infomercial for Auro3D (link) we do hear a promise|rumor that home Auro 9.1|10.1|11.1 decoders "will appear at the end of 2013, beginning of 2014". cool.gif
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zuluwalker's Avatar zuluwalker 10:54 AM 08-10-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

The Auro Technologies NEWSLETTER JUNE 2013 (link) includes the following text...
However, it's now mid August, and I haven't seen the aforementioned list, although in the August 5, 2013, infomercial for Auro3D (link) we do hear a promise|rumor that home Auro 9.1|10.1|11.1 decoders "will appear at the end of 2013, beginning of 2014". cool.gif
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Ooo...I'm in.
sdurani's Avatar sdurani 11:06 AM 08-10-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

...in the August 5, 2013, infomercial for Auro3D (link) we do hear a promise|rumor that home Auro 9.1|10.1|11.1 decoders...
IF Auro3D does its 11.1 layout using 7.1 + 4 heights, then that will be a good time for DTS to make the change to their Neo:X processing giving the option for 4 heights as well, which will allow the same speaker layout to serve both technologies.
cybrsage's Avatar cybrsage 11:27 AM 08-10-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

And by "ALL" I'm guessing you mean the majority of the 20 people who posted to this thread in the last 3 months...?!

Perhaps a more critical issue is just how few of the other 6 billion on this planet care! cool.gif
_

Well, since many of those people (over 7 billion people total on Earth now) are still concerned about what they are going to eat tomorrow, I cannot see them much caring about even basic stereo setups.
wse's Avatar wse 11:59 AM 08-10-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

The Auro Technologies NEWSLETTER JUNE 2013 (link) includes the following text...
However, it's now mid August, and I haven't seen the aforementioned list, although in the August 5, 2013, infomercial for Auro3D (link) we do hear a promise|rumor that home Auro 9.1|10.1|11.1 decoders "will appear at the end of 2013, beginning of 2014". :cool:_

CEDIA 2013 is near smile.gif mid September
M Code's Avatar M Code 12:39 PM 08-10-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

CEDIA 2013 is near smile.gif mid September

CEDIA 2013 is held September 26-28, in Denver, CO.

Just my $0.02... 👍😉
SoundChex's Avatar SoundChex 06:11 PM 08-10-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

IF Auro3D does its 11.1 layout using 7.1 + 4 heights, then that will be a good time for DTS to make the change to their Neo:X processing giving the option for 4 heights as well, which will allow the same speaker layout to serve both technologies.

So far as I know, the format for all theatrical movie releases to date has been Auro 11.1 in an Auro-encoded 5.1 LPCM carrier track.

Theatrical Auro 11.1 speaker configuration...



Auro Technologies recommends using either the Auro 9.1 or the Auro 10.1 speaker configuration for 'small theater' or home playback.

Home Auro 9.1 speaker configuration...



Home Auro 10.1 speaker configuration...



Existing classical music recordings SOUVENIR by TrondheimSolistene on the 2L label (link) and Portrait by Joseph Haydn on the MDG label (link) appear to be in Auro 9.1 and in an Aurophonic 8.0 2222+ (aka 2222plus) configuration (a compatible subset of Auro 9.1) respectively, both of which use the same Auro-encoded 5.1 LPCM carrier track format as an Auro 11.1 movie.

At this time, two significant questions would seem to be (1) what track format will be used for home delivery of Auro3D movies: 9.1, 10.1, or 11.1? and (2) what will be the capabilities of the Auromatic upmixer component included in a home Auro3D decoder to fill-out speaker elements of the full (theatrical) Auro 13.1(7) speaker configuration that are not present on the encoded Blu-ray disc?
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Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 01:42 AM 08-11-2013
Need some rear surrounds, Auro3D. Yes you do.
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 11:45 AM 08-11-2013
I think I like the Atmos speaker layout the best.
wse's Avatar wse 04:24 PM 08-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

I think I like the Atmos speaker layout the best.

Picture of layout side by side ATMOS vs AURO 3D
rubberduckey's Avatar rubberduckey 08:35 PM 08-17-2013
Well I'm very excited to try out a DTS Neo.X encoded movie because I just completed my 11.1 setup based around the Onkyo TX-NR929. The big issue is the lack of content. I am only aware of 3 movies encoded for Neo:X and two of them are rated R (which means they aren't allowed into my home). Does anyone know of a place to get a computer file, demo disc, or anything I could toy with until more content arrives?
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 09:31 PM 08-17-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubberduckey View Post

Well I'm very excited to try out a DTS Neo.X encoded movie because I just completed my 11.1 setup based around the Onkyo TX-NR929. The big issue is the lack of content. I am only aware of 3 movies encoded for Neo:X and two of them are rated R (which means they aren't allowed into my home). Does anyone know of a place to get a computer file, demo disc, or anything I could toy with until more content arrives?

Ahh man, there are some great R rated movies you're missing out on. Even some wonderful Oscar winners and other classics are Rated R (not just hard core action or adult comedies). One of my favorite movies of all time, Stand By Me, is Rated R, but it would probably get a PG-13 nowadays. Things change. If you have kids, send 'em to the in-laws once in a while and have an adult night at the movies. biggrin.gif
Woof Woof's Avatar Woof Woof 09:43 PM 08-17-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubberduckey View Post

Well I'm very excited to try out a DTS Neo.X encoded movie because I just completed my 11.1 setup based around the Onkyo TX-NR929. The big issue is the lack of content. I am only aware of 3 movies encoded for Neo:X and two of them are rated R (which means they aren't allowed into my home). Does anyone know of a place to get a computer file, demo disc, or anything I could toy with until more content arrives?

I thought the 929 was only 9.x and you had to choose front or wide.

FWIW, I find DTX Neo X works well even with non "native" material. I found very impressive use of the wides in Transformers 2 at the forest battle scene
Patrick Collins's Avatar Patrick Collins 11:15 PM 08-17-2013
Woof maybe you're thinkiing of DSX or PLIIZ. The TX-NR929 does high and wide in DTS NEO X. It's actually 9.2 or 11.2 with an external stereo amp.

Ducky where did you get your 929? If I wasn't otherwise preoccupied I'd probably would have replaced my Integra DTC 9.8 by now with a 929. Would love to hear more about yours. Yours is the first I've heard of in captivity.
SoundChex's Avatar SoundChex 01:24 AM 08-18-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Need some rear surrounds, Auro3D. Yes you do.

If I understand correctly, Auro3D actually supports 8.0 through 15.1 channel audio for encode|decode and upmix|downmix . . . although I believe all movies to date have been mixed in the same 11.1 channel configuration. Auro3D works with the following audio channels:

Front Center channel.
Front Left channel.
Front Right channel.
Surround Left channel.
Surround Right channel.
Rear Left channel.
Rear Right channel.
LFE.
Height Front Center channel.
Height Front Left channel.
Height Front Right channel.
Height Surround Left channel.
Height Surround Right channel.
Height Rear Left channel.
Height Rear Right channel.
Center Overhead channel ("Voice Of God").

Obviously, the mixed-for-home channel count included within the Auro-encoded 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM carrier track on a Blu-ray disk is decided by the studio . . . and the maximum decode+upmix channel count (likely 9.1 or 10.1, but possibly more) is the result of a feature decision by the AVR|processor vendor. biggrin.gifeek.gifcool.gif
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David Susilo's Avatar David Susilo 06:03 AM 08-18-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubberduckey View Post

Well I'm very excited to try out a DTS Neo.X encoded movie because I just completed my 11.1 setup based around the Onkyo TX-NR929. The big issue is the lack of content. I am only aware of 3 movies encoded for Neo:X and two of them are rated R (which means they aren't allowed into my home). Does anyone know of a place to get a computer file, demo disc, or anything I could toy with until more content arrives?

DTS demo disc is the first thing that comes to mind. They sometime pop up on eBay.
Woof Woof's Avatar Woof Woof 07:12 AM 08-18-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Collins View Post

Woof maybe you're thinkiing of DSX or PLIIZ. The TX-NR929 does high and wide in DTS NEO X. It's actually 9.2 or 11.2 with an external stereo amp.

Ducky where did you get your 929? If I wasn't otherwise preoccupied I'd probably would have replaced my Integra DTC 9.8 by now with a 929. Would love to hear more about yours. Yours is the first I've heard of in captivity.

Ah looks like they finally fixed in the 9 series. It took up till last year for the 1xxx, 3xxx and 5xxx series to get that feature.

NeoX can upmix 5.1 and 7.1 material to 11.1 as long as the AVR supports it. Have a go at Transformers 2 the IMAX forest battle where Optimus takes on a whole gang of decepticons. The panning when Megatron circles around looking for Sam really shows up the wides very well
wse's Avatar wse 08:36 AM 08-18-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Ah man, there are some great R rated movies you're missing out on. Even some wonderful Oscar winners and other classics are Rated R (not just hard core action or adult comedies). One of my favorite movies of all time, Stand By Me, is Rated R, but it would probably get a PG-13 nowadays. Things change. If you have kids, send 'em to the in-laws once in a while and have an adult night at the movies. biggrin.gif

Do you have a list of movies encoded for DTS NeoX?
SoundChex's Avatar SoundChex 12:24 PM 08-18-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Do you have a list of movies encoded for DTS NeoX?

The only movies that come to mind are The Expendables 2, Step Up Revolution, and Dredd. cool.gif
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wse's Avatar wse 01:39 PM 08-18-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

The only movies that come to mind are The Expendables 2, Step Up Revolution, and Dredd. :cool:_

Yes that's what I thought! Any new ones coming out?
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 02:49 PM 08-18-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

If I understand correctly, Auro3D actually supports 8.0 through 15.1 channel audio for encode|decode and upmix|downmix . . . although I believe all movies to date have been mixed in the same 11.1 channel configuration. Auro3D works with the following audio channels:

Front Center channel.
Front Left channel.
Front Right channel.
Surround Left channel.
Surround Right channel.
Rear Left channel.
Rear Right channel.
LFE.
Height Front Center channel.
Height Front Left channel.
Height Front Right channel.
Height Surround Left channel.
Height Surround Right channel.
Height Rear Left channel.
Height Rear Right channel.
Center Overhead channel ("Voice Of God").

Obviously, the mixed-for-home channel count included within the Auro-encoded 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM carrier track on a Blu-ray disk is decided by the studio . . . and the maximum decode+upmix channel count (likely 9.1 or 10.1, but possibly more) is the result of a feature decision by the AVR|processor vendor. biggrin.gifeek.gifcool.gif
_

Right. Either way I hope when/if this technology hits the home AVR circuit that they will have the ability to apply post-processing ala PL2x and such so I can have my rears even if the original mix is "5.1" as such. Technically it should be possible as the decoder only needs the 'regular' surround channels information and not the new included height channels.

It will be interesting to see how all these new audio technologies will be implemented for us at home. I can't wait to see what comes!
Tags: Dts , Denon Avr 4311ci 9 2 Channel Network Multi Room Home Theater Receiver With Hdmi 1 4a
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