** OFFICIAL ** -- Sound Quality (SQ) Discussion - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post

This thread is a Technical Discussion of Sound Quality (SQ), and how we can IMPROVE our Quality of Sound within our Environment for Stereo, and all other Surround Modes.

So tell us what was your Biggest Improvement in SQ?

Also please discuss --

** Room Acoustics** Cabling - Power, Interconnects, Speaker
** Speakers
** Room Equalization -- (i.e.: Audyssey)
This will be a very interesting discussion from day one of our experiences with Audio, to some that have over 50 years in the Audio Field either as a Professional or Hobbist.

Let's make our AUDIO "EXTREMELY PERFECT" !!

DenPureSound
WA., U.S.A.


My layout and equipment, (A/V Denon AVR-4308CI):



For me the DIY acoustic treatments have been a huge-huge SQ improvement for the Home Theatre (my signature has link to thread).
As everyone here knows so well, the systems approach to the whole environment MUST be taken into account, and I got used to my bare drywall sound for 2 years.....just busy with life/etc. Audyssey can't "fix" that....but it helps, and now with the acoustic treatments + Audyssey both I, my wife, and friends notice much improved 3D soundstage, clarity, etc.


Broadband bass traps along the rear wall:


Appropriate management of 1st reflections off the ceiling and side walls:


I posted this in another thread;
Quote:
Did you treat your entire room at once, or did you treat just the first reflection points and then try it out?
I studied, planned, and implemented in stages.
Here is what I did in order and simple subjective opinion, scale 1-5, 5 being highest ranking;
-side wall treatments first - very noticable rank 5
-2nd row acoustic cloud - noticable rank 3.5 or 4, not as much as side wall treatments
-Rear wall lower bass traps - very noticable, rank 4.5 or 5
-1st row acoustic cloud - noticable, rank 3 or 3.5
-Rear wall upper bass traps - noticable, rank 4

Ethan W (and some others) recommend you tackle the bass traps 1st, then from there your side wall 1st reflections, then determine what needs treatment after that.
There is a diminishing return on $$ vs benefites gained, both subjective and objective.
Only each individual can judge when to stop and accept their acoustics "as is".

Funny thing, my ear definitley is now tuned better for acoustics, and I can hear a echo among the center channel and my rear wall back to my DW lamiante screen, it forms a echo chamber!
That's why people say go AT screen to elimiante that issue, now I will study on specific portion of rear wall diffusor and/or thin absorber to minimize that.....

That is my subjective ranking, next weekend I'll get REW hooked up and take objective measurements and post those as well, for fact based data/graphs correlation to the subjective rankings. I've been taking REW/Freq/etc readings as doing the acoustic treatments, but I share that iMac with my wife and everytime I need it takes time forset-up/etc......
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post #122 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post


I'm sorry, but from looking at this, I would say your biggest limiting factor would have been room setup and interaction more than what gear you have or may not have.

This is what some good posts in this thread have alluded to... room and equipment setup are what make the biggest improvements in SQ.
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post #123 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

Hey Bill,

Cool. I won't turn this into a Classe thread as that is not what the thread is about but if you are using a pre/pro for BOTH stereo and HT duty I do hope you can try the SSP-800 with the C1s and a good amp sometime. It is a great pairing.

I don't know if you have the Confidence Center as well but that is a strong reason why I leaned towards concerts over stereo in the past but the upgrade has really made me appreciate stereo listening again. I did not realize how much imaging I was missing (in my set-up) and what a difference it made.

You may really like it or perhaps it is just another "can't tell the dif"? pre/pro

And once again system synergy plays such a key role. I really do believe this.

Rick

Rick,

With your Classe' SSP-800 online there, did you REALLY NOTICE any differences in SQ there? What are your sources that are driving into the SSP?

Are you saying that if I replaced my Denon AVR-3311CI AVR with a Classe SSP-800 I would really hear TOTALLY IMPROVED levels of SQ?

What is the MSRP on the SSP-800= ?

Den
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post #124 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

well... y'know... you might want to learn a few things about this, since you are "all about sound quality"...



"fans" is the appropriate word... to be honest, you'll never convince me of your above assertion, because the numbers simply don't back it up (not to mention your "test" is wholly invalid)...

Chris, well there is a whole camp that just stays with an AVR, and are happy, and there is another camp with tons of power and separate amps and are even MORE HAPPY.

Everyone makes up their own Opinions about what to buy.
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post #125 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post

Rick,

With your Classe' SSP-800 online there, did you REALLY NOTICE any differences in SQ there? What are your sources that are driving into the SSP?

Are you saying that if I replaced my Denon AVR-3311CI AVR with a Classe SSP-800 I would really hear TOTALLY IMPROVED levels of SQ?

What is the MSRP on the SSP-800= ?

Den

I can't tell you if you will notice a difference and the subject of the thread was "what have I changed in my own set-up" that made a difference. But I think you might (protecting myself here).

I have already explained why I feel the way that I do in this thread. To me the Classe is fantastic in my set-up and the change from the NAD was obvious and a great improvement (imaging and analog quality as well as the neutral/clear but not bright sound over the NAD which mates well with my speakers). You can google list prices for items but anyway the Classe is $9500 MSRP.

Rick

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post #126 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

well... y'know... you might want to learn a few things about this, since you are "all about sound quality"...

"fans" is the appropriate word... to be honest, you'll never convince me of your above assertion, because the numbers simply don't back it up (not to mention your "test" is wholly invalid)...

Well, sounds like you have ALL the Answers there, but with no specific details, just pissing on others, guezz is that what you enjoy in your life?

With all do respect, bring something to the party here instead of Hasty Generalizations of Volumetric Emptiness. IMHO.

If the numbers simply do not back it up as you have stated above, you need to have your derivation in place to support what your stating factually with numbers included within, not just an invalid comment with nothing behind it.
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post #127 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post

Can and will those speakers for the Mains (Stereo Mode) really compare to my Klipsch RF-82II Towers, in your honest Opinion?
To me they look so small, but great things I know can come in small pkgs.

DPS

My honest opinion is I prefer a softdome tweet over metal. I also use a REL sub for stereo 2.1 and would with any speaker I own most likely.

I think you might have fun going out to all of the audio stores in your area or take a day trip on the weekend and just for fun go audition different speakers and I am not talking Best Buy here. It is really great if you are into the hobby to hear many different great speakers. I auditioned so many different brands and it was all enjoyable but MY LOVE is Dynaudio but some may not and that is why we audition. I picked these monitors because they were at the top of my price range and I loved them from the moment I heard them. I could not afford the matching center if I bought the towers. I would not trade my center for anything and went with monitors and I am glad I did. Don't let yourself be fooled as there are some monitors out there by several mfg's that are considered excellent.

Have you had a chance to listen to many different speakers before or just the Klipsch?

Rick

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post #128 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

I can't tell you if you will notice a difference and the subject of the thread was "what have I changed in my own set-up" that made a difference. But I think you might (protecting myself here).

I have already explained why I feel the way that I do in this thread. To me the Classe is fantastic in my set-up and the change from the NAD was obvious and a great improvement (imaging and analog quality as well as the neutral/clear but not bright sound over the NAD which mates well with my speakers). You can google list prices for items but anyway the Classe is $9500 MSRP.

Rick

Rick, thanks. For sure if I spent $9500 or a K less, heck I want it to make one heck of a difference for sure, and honestly if it did not I would send it back. Heck, that's more invested than everything here in the one room.

When I hit that lottery, I want to pick up those Klipsch P-34f's for the Front Mains, now I know that will make a difference in SQ. But, $20K is a little to much right now, now if they will only get rid of that K, I will find it here.
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post #129 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 01:05 PM
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[quote=DenPureSound;20107334]
Quote:


Ah you experts blow me away.

I'm certainly no expert on audio as I just enjoy it as a hobby (obsession). So I'm not sure if the above is sarcastic or not. If it is can you explain why that is?

Quote:


I have a new Emotiva XPA-5, and am very happy with it, but have not even tried another amp so have no idea how a Classe or for that matter even a Mark Levinson would sound vs. the $899 XPA-5.

Thats good that you are happy with your amp. I would say the XPA-5 will hold its own vs. amps costing much more.

Quote:


Have any of you tried an EMO Amp?

Yes I have. Any reason why you ask?

Quote:


I do a lot of streaming through my LG BD-590 Player for Napster and/or Pandora which is HDMI connected to my Denon AVR-3311CI, and to me it seems that is my Best Source for Stereo Audio, maybe excluding some good CD's.

No offense but you should try listening to some well recorded CDs or SACDs if you want to hear superior SQ.

Quote:


I might move the Denon AVR into the Mstr. Bdrm. to setup the 5.1 HT, and what would you put on the Front End for Pre/Pro if I decide to move the Denon out of the rack? By years end, EMO will have out the XMC-1 so I am told, but probably will be buggy like a lot of new complex gear.

There are many possibilities but I would not wait around for the XMC-1. I had the UMC-1 and it had great SQ but too many issues to deal with. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish but if it is raising the level of the SQ in your system is your ultimate goal then speaker upgrades and room treatments are the way to go IMO.

Bill

My SACD collection, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #130 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

My honest opinion is I prefer a softdome tweet over metal. I also use a REL sub for stereo 2.1 and would with any speaker I own most likely.

I think you might have fun going out to all of the audio stores in your area or take a day trip on the weekend and just for fun go audition different speakers and I am not talking Best Buy here. It is really great if you are into the hobby to hear many different great speakers. I auditioned so many different brands and it was all enjoyable but MY LOVE is Dynaudio but some may not and that is why we audition. I picked these monitors because they were at the top of my price range and I loved them from the moment I heard them. I could not afford the matching center if I bought the towers. I would not trade my center for anything and went with monitors and I am glad I did. Don't let yourself be fooled as there are some monitors out there by several mfg's that are considered excellent.

Have you had a chance to listen to many different speakers before or just the Klipsch?

Rick

Not many speakers. The problem is the Audio High-End stores are in Seattle, and that is many hours away from here in the Bush.
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post #131 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post

Well, sounds like you have ALL the Answers there, but with no specific details, just pissing on others, guezz is that what you enjoy in your life?

With all do respect, bring something to the party here instead of Hasty Generalizations of Volumetric Emptiness. IMHO.

If the numbers simply do not back it up as you have stated above, you need to have your derivation in place to support what your stating factually with numbers included within, not just an invalid comment with nothing behind it.

i have brought many things to the party, you have simply chosen to ignore them... read back through your thread...

no, a 128k napster stream isn't going to have anywhere near the "sq" of a cd... sorry... i figured that would be obvious to you...

on the last point, you did the math yourself...

- chris

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

My honest opinion is I prefer a softdome tweet over metal. I also use a REL sub for stereo 2.1 and would with any speaker I own most likely.

I think you might have fun going out to all of the audio stores in your area or take a day trip on the weekend and just for fun go audition different speakers and I am not talking Best Buy here. It is really great if you are into the hobby to hear many different great speakers. I auditioned so many different brands and it was all enjoyable but MY LOVE is Dynaudio but some may not and that is why we audition. I picked these monitors because they were at the top of my price range and I loved them from the moment I heard them. I could not afford the matching center if I bought the towers. I would not trade my center for anything and went with monitors and I am glad I did. Don't let yourself be fooled as there are some monitors out there by several mfg's that are considered excellent.

Have you had a chance to listen to many different speakers before or just the Klipsch?

Rick

Rick,

Excellent advice! Sometimes one can be focused on one brand of speakers. But then when you hear other speaker brands at a store that has well setup listening rooms you start to see (hear) that there are many quality speakers out there.

Bill

My SACD collection, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

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post #133 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

I'm sorry, but from looking at this, I would say your biggest limiting factor would have been room setup and interaction more than what gear you have or may not have.

This is what some good posts in this thread have alluded to... room and equipment setup are what make the biggest improvements in SQ.

And I've said the same. I've got to work with what I have. Feel free to peruse the thread linked to my signature.
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post #134 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post

Honestly I never did a level match here, as I was just to much in a hurry to install the new Amp.

Wife has been around Audio for around 30+ yrs. and she noticed the difference Right Away, and so did I after installing the Amp. Why? I do not know, but after install it just had the Punch, and you could almost Feel It In the AIR that it Opened Up the Front SoundStage. I guess that is why most Audiophiles love their separates!! Must be some truth there, so it seems to me.

Check out the Emotiva Forums... they sure have a lot of FANS there.

If you like your new toy that is all that really counts. Insofar as what Klipsch audiophiles feel about driving their speakers with powerful amps in the home envirnement you may be suprised at what you find. Fwiw, there are a number of Emotiva fans on the Klipsch Owners Thread and I was surprised to find that NONE had every level-matched their amps to their AVR....Even suggesting it brought on hate responses which I found curious and now it seems everyone on there thinks they need an Emotiva when in fact I feel the opposite to be true...
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post #135 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm certainly no expert on audio as I just enjoy it as a hobby (obsession). So I'm not sure if the above is sarcastic or not. If it is can you explain why that is?

DPS -- Your closer to an expert than I for sure. I only know there is a lot more that I do not know than what I know.

Thats good that you are happy with your amp. I would say the XPA-5 will hold its own vs. amps costing much more.

DPS -- Never had any other Amps, so impossible for me to compare any differences in them. Only have read about what others say on Forums about other Mfg/Model's.



Yes I have. Any reason why you ask?

DPS -- What mfg/models have you owned previously, and did you feel they were better than the EMO's?



No offense but you should try listening to some well recorded CDs or SACDs if you want to hear superior SQ.

DPS -- Understand, but that is more $, and it deeply bothers me to buy CD's at their prices today. Your right on, where Napster streams are only 128Kbps, certainly not the best quality. Maybe tomorrow in the future the audio streams will be 320Kbps, for $5 / Month.

Heck, I am Retired, Tired and in Poverty, CD's would push me over my monthly budget .. have a lot of them from years ago, but to lazy to open the player and put them in, just kidding... actually what I like about Napster is all the variety which is really nice, for picking a song, artist, etc.



There are many possibilities but I would not wait around for the XMC-1. I had the UMC-1 and it had great SQ but too many issues to deal with. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish but if it is raising the level of the SQ in your system is your ultimate goal then speaker upgrades and room treatments are the way to go IMO.

DPS -- What did you sell your UMC-1? Understand about the XMC-1, could be another year or so, who knows, and most likely will be loaded with bugs if the UMC-1 has them. Have a few Grand in speakers so far, so that took care of this years budget.

DPS
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post #136 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 02:31 PM
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@zen...

that's a good post... not surprising that i agree with all of it...

well... except for the part about "being surprised that none had level matched"...

some vocal and not so well informed posters are costing people money... or at least convincing them that their setups are somehow inadequate, when nothing could be farther from the truth....

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post #137 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

If you like your new toy that is all that really counts. Insofar as what Klipsch audiophiles feel about driving their speakers with powerful amps in the home envirnement you may be suprised at what you find. Fwiw, there are a number of Emotiva fans on the Klipsch Owners Thread and I was surprised to find that NONE had every level-matched their amps to their AVR....Even suggesting it brought on hate responses which I found curious and now it seems everyone on there thinks they need an Emotiva when in fact I feel the opposite to be true...

ZEN, you don't like having a separate amp with your AVR?

My room size is 18 x 24' with extensions into other rooms, halls, as well, so in essence a lot of volume to fill acoustically.

I love the Denon AVR, but honestly after adding the amp THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE, IMHO, also now the wife is Happy.
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post #138 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post

ZEN, you don't like having a separate amp with your AVR?

I don't need a separate amp with my AVR and did level matching experiments when I was considering it.
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post #139 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

I don't need a separate amp with my AVR and did level matching experiments when I was considering it.

Hell, did I hear wrong, I thought Everything in TEXAS is BIG, you therefore need a BIG AMP there.

Power corrupts absolutely, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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post #140 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

I don't need a separate amp with my AVR and did level matching experiments when I was considering it.

The EMO XPA-5 has no adjustments on each amp channel externally accessible.
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post #141 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 03:40 PM
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[quote=DenPureSound;20112706]
Quote:


Your closer to an expert than I for sure. I only know there is a lot more that I do not know than what I know.

Not really but maybe a bit more experience. To learn you have to let go of preconcieved notions and take advice from those more experienced than you (or I). Even if that advice is not exactly what you want to hear.

Quote:


Never had any other Amps, so impossible for me to compare any differences in them. Only have read about what others say on Forums about other Mfg/Model's.

Thats fine but most often hearing or viewing in ones system is the best way to know.

Quote:


What mfg/models have you owned previously, and did you feel they were better than the EMO's?

Boston Acoustics A7200, Sherbourn 72100, Parasound A52, NHT Power5 and Bel Canto S300. I never did direct comparisons between any of these amps. But in all honesty whether the amps were 125 wpc or 200 wpc none of these amp changes really made a noticeable change in SQ.

Quote:


Understand, but that is more $, and it deeply bothers me to buy CD's at their prices today. Your right on, where Napster streams are only 128Kbps, certainly not the best quality. Maybe tomorrow in the future the audio streams will be 320Kbps, for $5 / Month.

I can understand that. But do not be offended when members here comment that Napster and Pandora are not going to give the greatest SQ.

Quote:


Heck, I am Retired, Tired and in Poverty, CD's would push me over my monthly budget .. have a lot of them from years ago, but to lazy to open the player and put them in, just kidding... actually what I like about Napster is all the variety which is really nice, for picking a song, artist, etc.

Again thats fine but when someone like yourself starts a thread about SQ and discloses that his sources are Napster and Pandora there is only so much you can expect from that as a source. In other words do not spend a ton of money on gear expecting huge gains in SQ from that as your only source. I think you should throw on one of your favorite CDs and you will hear the difference. If you do not then either something is wrong with your system or possibly your hearing.

Quote:


What did you sell your UMC-1? Understand about the XMC-1, could be another year or so, who knows, and most likely will be loaded with bugs if the UMC-1 has them. Have a few Grand in speakers so far, so that took care of this years budget.

I returned the UMC-1 to Emotiva. If the XMC-1 takes another year it will be obsolete which it might be now if it came out tomorrow. It would not surprise me in the least if the XMC-1 was loaded with bugs. But maybe it won't which will be a pleasant surprise.

Bill

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post #142 of 263 Old 03-07-2011, 06:18 PM
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[QUOTE
For me the DIY acoustic treatments have been a huge-huge SQ improvement for the Home Theatre (my signature has link to thread).
As everyone here knows so well, the systems approach to the whole environment MUST be taken into account, and I got used to my bare drywall sound for 2 years.....just busy with life/etc. Audyssey can't "fix" that....but it helps, and now with the acoustic treatments + Audyssey both I, my wife, and friends notice much improved 3D soundstage, clarity, etc.[/quote]

Mike, didn't edit you post correctly and too lazy to go back and fix but thanks for the info.



I really like your treatments. They look great. That will be my next tackle. I am like many though and I don't have a an awesome basement, dedicated room or even a family room. I have a living room that is multi-functional and I don't even have a spouse to argue with about it but I do want my one and only room to look good to me. I think I may start with some bass traps and then perhaps the side walls. I envy you guys with basements and dedicated rooms. I bet your room sounds great.

I have my equipment all in place now and I am very happy with the results for a multi-purpose room but I would like to see how far I can take it with some basic treatments.

Thanks for sharing.
Rick

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post #143 of 263 Old 03-08-2011, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post
Quote:
For me the DIY acoustic treatments have been a huge-huge SQ improvement for the Home Theatre (my signature has link to thread).
As everyone here knows so well, the systems approach to the whole environment MUST be taken into account, and I got used to my bare drywall sound for 2 years.....just busy with life/etc. Audyssey can't "fix" that....but it helps, and now with the acoustic treatments + Audyssey both I, my wife, and friends notice much improved 3D soundstage, clarity, etc.
Mike, didn't edit you post correctly and too lazy to go back and fix but thanks for the info.



I really like your treatments. They look great. That will be my next tackle. I am like many though and I don't have a an awesome basement, dedicated room or even a family room. I have a living room that is multi-functional and I don't even have a spouse to argue with about it but I do want my one and only room to look good to me. I think I may start with some bass traps and then perhaps the side walls. I envy you guys with basements and dedicated rooms. I bet your room sounds great.

I have my equipment all in place now and I am very happy with the results for a multi-purpose room but I would like to see how far I can take it with some basic treatments.

Thanks for sharing.
Rick

Rick
Thx Rick - and everyones situtation is unique for them.
Hopefully you can make some DIY treatments and see how that helps.
Like Ethan W has said, for temp take a big bath towel, fold it a few times, and use that as a temp absorber on your wall(s) so see if treatment(s) will help.
FWIW, I've found a good source for AT artwork that can make the absorber treatments more pleasing and decorative like. Info in my DIY treatment link (sig).

In the end, we are all sharing experiences about our common hobby and passion.

Like everyone else here I'm always looking into the future for my next HT "upgrade"- audio and video, and trying to justify it with some rationale.

Audio:
-What "Better" speakers should I buy?
-What "Better" A/V?
-Do I need Audyssey 32XT (vs my 8XT) - or should I buy the Audyssey Pro kit?
-How about a Pre/Pro?
-How to plan the incremental expected "improvements" for each of those vs $$$ expected to spend?
-What truly is the best "bang for MY hard earned buck(s)"?

I'm so glad I've tackled the acoustic treatments before spending $$$ on newer hardware.
IMO people should really re-consider their new gear purchase(s) as 2nd priority until after they have at least tried to dial in their listening area acoustically with "appropriate" treatments.

I'll say this - hopefully not starting a flame here.
If anyone is truly serious about the hobby they will have:
1) Applied acoustic treatments to their area -within their budget and/or WAF
2) Use objective measurement equipment as a tool, or have paid some calibrator to dial in their listening area.

Regarding 2), this way, they can quantify their subjective experiences with objective data.
I'm no expert at all, but heck if I can use REW/other and grasp it, anyone can!
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post #144 of 263 Old 03-08-2011, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
IMO people should really re-consider their new gear purchase(s) as 2nd priority until after they have at least tried to dial in their listening area acoustically with "appropriate" treatments.

I'll say this - hopefully not starting a flame here.
If anyone is truly serious about the hobby they will have:
1) Applied acoustic treatments to their area -within their budget and/or WAF
2) Use objective measurement equipment as a tool, or have paid some calibrator to dial in their listening area.

Regarding 2), this way, they can quantify their subjective experiences with objective data.
I'm no expert at all, but heck if I can use REW/other and grasp it, anyone can!
Mike,

I do not think you would starting a flame here as your advice is very sound (pardon the obvious pun). I have put off all thoughts of any component upgrades till I come up with a plan for some acoustical treatments. Going the DIY route will probably be the only way I can go right now as the savings is quite substantial. I have just started using REW and I just have the basics down for now.

Bill

My SACD collection, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #145 of 263 Old 03-08-2011, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Mike,

Like most writeups here, excellent and I like most all here really enjoy A/V as a hobby.
I wish I had a separate room, like a basement, but do not. So have to please wife first for the WLF - Wife Look Factor, but am interested in researching data on Room Acoustics and Treatment theories/implementation. Do you have a couple URL's?

DPS
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post #146 of 263 Old 03-08-2011, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is a couple pics of present setup w/in last 2-3 months here. As you can see Living Room environment, so I am sure wifey would not want Big Pieces of foam hanging off the walls when I tell her it will help the sound quality!! But we will see in the end run who wins [Grins].

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post #147 of 263 Old 03-08-2011, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post

Mike,

Like most writeups here, excellent and I like most all here really enjoy A/V as a hobby.
I wish I had a separate room, like a basement, but do not. So have to please wife first for the WLF - Wife Look Factor, but am interested in researching data on Room Acoustics and Treatment theories/implementation. Do you have a couple URL's?
DPS

DPS - I truly understand the WLF, IMO best way is to somehow get the sig other involved with the acoustic education process so they can also really understand and be a part of the possible options, trade off discussions, and improvements to be realized.

Here's what I've suggested to others in prior posts:
Quote:
Side note:
I have this general suggestion for those wanting to learn about acoustics:

A) read this 3 page thread Acoustic Treatment basic FAQ , its a easy read in layman terms, good foundation with practical discussion.

B) Then I'd say read the first 4-5 pages of Acoustical Treatments Master Thread , there are 200+ pages there but first 4-5 cover much of the stuff

C) Then, post into link given in B your room size/etc and ask your Q's there, if not already answered by doing A) and B) above

D) If you have desire for more knowledge:
-read one of many books out there, a great 1st book is "Master Handbook of Acoustics" by F. Alton Everest
-study Ethan Winers site, http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
-This is also a 101 read on Room Acoustics, http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/lea...acoustics.html
-I was surprised at this SAE Home Acoustics info site http://www.sae.edu/reference_materia.../fullindex.htm
-There are many other sites on the web, like http://forum.studiotips.com/index.php, acoustical measurements defined http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue12/rives2.htm, http://www.rpginc.com/news/library.htm, etc.
-Be careful of info overload all at once

I'm really excited by the low cost DIY AT artwork for absorption panels, that will help the WAF/WLF by combining art decoration with functional acoustic treatment(s).


Quote:
Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post

Here is a couple pics of present setup w/in last 2-3 months here. As you can see Living Room environment, so I am sure wifey would not want Big Pieces of foam hanging off the walls when I tell her it will help the sound quality!! But we will see in the end run who wins [Grins].

Stay away from that foam, use fabric wrapped OC703 (or equiv).......look over Ethan W's site.
That corner behind the bookshelf in your pict, it's saying to me "Broadband superchunk bass trap"! Perfect location!
You could easily build one of these movable bass traps and put it there....
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post #148 of 263 Old 03-08-2011, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Was listening to Starship - No Protection off a bought CD, and was wondering what Bit Rate are Compact Disc Digital Audio CD's recorded at on the CD?

Does sound better than streaming Napster in at 128Kbps.
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post #149 of 263 Old 03-08-2011, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

DPS - I truly understand the WLF, IMO best way is to somehow get the sig other involved with the acoustic education process so they can also really understand and be a part of the possible options, trade off discussions, and improvements to be realized.

Here's what I've suggested to others in prior posts:


I'm really excited by the low cost DIY AT artwork for absorption panels, that will help the WAF/WLF by combining art decoration with functional acoustic treatment(s).



Stay away from that foam, use fabric wrapped OC703 (or equiv).......look over Ethan W's site.
That corner behind the bookshelf in your pict, it's saying to me "Broadband superchunk bass trap"! Perfect location!
You could easily build one of these movable bass traps and put it there....

Mike,

Excellent and thanks for all your fine postings here.

Good point about the corner bookshelf, just would have to move some books that I don't read anyway, guess just hooked on net, and on the net there is more info/data than we could ever read in a lifetime.

Read over my earlier post, do you know the bit rate of CD's?

I will read it over here later. Off in a bit for B'Day party so they tell me.

DPS
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post #150 of 263 Old 03-08-2011, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post
Mike,

Excellent and thanks for all your fine postings here.

Good point about the corner bookshelf, just would have to move some books that I don't read anyway, guess just hooked on net, and on the net there is more info/data than we could ever read in a lifetime.

Read over my earlier post, do you know the bit rate of CD's?

I will read it over here later. Off in a bit for B'Day party so they tell me.

DPS
No need to move the bookshelf, the bass trap goes behind it, sight un seen.
Best is floor to ceiling, but if WAF won't allow that then floor to the bookshelf height.


Apple may be offering 24 bit recording instead of 16 bit (CD redbook).
http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/02/...sic/index.html

I've got some 96/24 FLAC free samples from HDtracks, try it out.
Read more here: https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?f...e&pagename=faq
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