Onkyo TX-NR609 or Denon AVR-1912 - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 59 Old 06-08-2011, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by chuckp59 View Post

Hi Folks,

I just returned my Pioneer 1021K (paid $500) and picked up the Denon AVR-2112C1 (paid $500) The denon web site listed June 11th as the release date but my local shop in Austin received them this week.

Where in Austin? I'm not happy with my Onkyo 608 and I love the fact that the 2112 has multEQ XT at that price!!!
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post #32 of 59 Old 06-09-2011, 02:13 PM
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I just picked up the Denon AVR 1912 yesterday and am very pleased. The AirPlay integration worked without a hitch, and the Ethernet setup was a breeze. Overall audio setup wasn't very user-friendly and had screens that looked like something from a 8 bit computer, but let's face it, no one on this forum is depending on guided setups anyway.

One more downside- the promotional material points out that there is an iPad and iPhone app. No sign of an iPad app on the Apple app store, but the iPhone version works fine. I still prefer using the Denon remote, however.

Bottom line- great sound quality, super connectivity for Pandora, Internet Radio, and AirPlay. My Apple TV will now move to a different room since the most used feature is now redundant thanks to the new Denon.
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post #33 of 59 Old 06-09-2011, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulM9999 View Post
I just picked up the Denon AVR 1912 yesterday and am very pleased. The AirPlay integration worked without a hitch, and the Ethernet setup was a breeze. Overall audio setup wasn't very user-friendly and had screens that looked like something from a 8 bit computer, but let's face it, no one on this forum is depending on guided setups anyway.

One more downside- the promotional material points out that there is an iPad and iPhone app. No sign of an iPad app on the Apple app store, but the iPhone version works fine. I still prefer using the Denon remote, however.

Bottom line- great sound quality, super connectivity for Pandora, Internet Radio, and AirPlay. My Apple TV will now move to a different room since the most used feature is now redundant thanks to the new Denon.

Denon Remote app for iPhone, iPod and iPad...and I don't even own any Apple products and found it.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/denon...388608880?mt=8

Requirements: Compatible with iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad. Requires iOS 4.2 or later.

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post #34 of 59 Old 06-09-2011, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Denon Remote app for iPhone, iPod and iPad...and I don't even own any Apple products and found it.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/denon...388608880?mt=8

Requirements: Compatible with iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad. Requires iOS 4.2 or later.

Yup, that's the one, but it is an iPhone app. Compatible w/iPad, but doesn't go full screen and doesn't allow landscape rotation.
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post #35 of 59 Old 06-18-2011, 11:47 AM
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I'm also considering this one as well but Frys had it at MSRP so I waited to see if I could find it online.


But I have one question. Is this better than the Denon AVR-2311CI? I plan to use 5.1 for movies and tv. I have an SVS 13+ that's all going into a 15x12 room. I want the 2 zone to play music in the game room.

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post #36 of 59 Old 06-28-2011, 07:46 PM
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Hi all,
In dilemma between Onkyo 609 or Denon 1912. I have a dedicated home theatre room with 60% movies / 40% music. I own an Onkyo HtiB (model: HTS-670) and its time I upgrade to a new AVR. I love its sound quality and satisfied till date. Now the reason for upgradation is to experience new HD audio and its surround capabilities which is common is blurays.

The prices in Ebay:
Onkyo TX-NR609 = $419.00
Denon AVR-1912 = $478.99
NB: a difference of $60 for Denon 1912...

I don't want most of the features both the companies are advertising like network streaming, Airplay (as I don't own any Apple product), Pandora, internet radio etc. Occassionaly, I use to watch some SD videos for which I may use the HD upscaling capability. Apart from this as I mentioned earlier, it is 60/40 = movies/music.

1) I am impressed reading the feature of Audyssey MultiEq in Denon 1912 when compared to Onkyo 609s 2Eq. So, does the MultiEq in 1912 have an upperhand over 609s 2eq or I can manually calibrate to overcome this issue and go ahead with 609?

2) I would to know more about how these AVRs sound in terms of movies/music and which is better or in other words, which balances between Movies/Music?

3) I am planning to connect my HTPC, Popcorn Hour A-110 to AVR and from AVR to JVC DLA-HD350 projector. So, I would like to know if there are any handshake issues concerning with JVC DLA-HD350 with either of the two brands?

Members who can comment based on their experience using these brands...
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post #37 of 59 Old 07-06-2011, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by eummagic View Post
Hi all,
In dilemma between Onkyo 609 or Denon 1912. I have a dedicated home theatre room with 60% movies / 40% music. I own an Onkyo HtiB (model: HTS-670) and its time I upgrade to a new AVR. I love its sound quality and satisfied till date. Now the reason for upgradation is to experience new HD audio and its surround capabilities which is common is blurays.

The prices in Ebay:
Onkyo TX-NR609 = $419.00
Denon AVR-1912 = $478.99
NB: a difference of $60 for Denon 1912...

I don't want most of the features both the companies are advertising like network streaming, Airplay (as I don't own any Apple product), Pandora, internet radio etc. Occassionaly, I use to watch some SD videos for which I may use the HD upscaling capability. Apart from this as I mentioned earlier, it is 60/40 = movies/music.

1) I am impressed reading the feature of Audyssey MultiEq in Denon 1912 when compared to Onkyo 609s 2Eq. So, does the MultiEq in 1912 have an upperhand over 609s 2eq or I can manually calibrate to overcome this issue and go ahead with 609?

2) I would to know more about how these AVRs sound in terms of movies/music and which is better or in other words, which balances between Movies/Music?

3) I am planning to connect my HTPC, Popcorn Hour A-110 to AVR and from AVR to JVC DLA-HD350 projector. So, I would like to know if there are any handshake issues concerning with JVC DLA-HD350 with either of the two brands?

Members who can comment based on their experience using these brands...
I'm also interested in this thread. I'm looking mostly movies/sports/games. I'm most interested in how it handles all the hdmi inputs to the outputs and how well it can pass through all the info (like 3d).
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post #38 of 59 Old 07-06-2011, 08:42 AM
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First thing make sure your ebay source is an authorized Denon dealer or your screwed if you need repair. But even better get the Denon 2112 from Electronics Expo for less than your $478 price for the 1912. The 2112 adds Audyssey MultiEQ XT which is way better than the 2EQ on the Onkyo. You have to call to get the better pricing.

1. Try to get Audyssey MulitEQ as a minimum. You can't overcome the lesser calibration manually plus the 2EQ doesn't calibrate the subwoofer.

2. that's gonna be a user opinion on which is better for music/movies.

3. Know nothing about popcorn hour or JVC projectors

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post #39 of 59 Old 07-06-2011, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
First thing make sure your ebay source is an authorized Denon dealer or your screwed if you need repair. But even better get the Denon 2112 from Electronics Expo for less than your $478 price for the 1912. The 2112 adds Audyssey MultiEQ XT which is way better than the 2EQ on the Onkyo. You have to call to get the better pricing.

1. Try to get Audyssey MulitEQ as a minimum. You can't overcome the lesser calibration manually plus the 2EQ doesn't calibrate the subwoofer.

2. that's gonna be a user opinion on which is better for music/movies.

3. Know nothing about popcorn hour or JVC projectors
Does the lack of the THX mark on the Denon really mean anything?
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post #40 of 59 Old 07-06-2011, 08:54 AM
 
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I have had a JVC projector(older 720P and the RS50) connected to a Denon and two Integras(upper brand of Onkyo).

None of the three ever had handshake issues.

I won't speak of Audyssey(cause I don't use it)...but if you stretch yourself to the Onkyo TX NR709/Denon 2112/2312...

Those are in the next class of receiver...and well worth the extra 50-60% more money.
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post #41 of 59 Old 07-08-2011, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulM9999 View Post

I just picked up the Denon AVR 1912 yesterday and am very pleased. ... My Apple TV will now move to a different room since the most used feature is now redundant thanks to the new Denon.

I am a bit puzzled: are you saying that it's possible to stream and play video content from your iOS thing (e.g. wired from iTunes on PC or wireless from iPhone) to your TV set with the AirPlay feature of Denon?!? I thought they use the AirPlay feature for sound only.
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post #42 of 59 Old 07-08-2011, 11:48 PM
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Onkyo [+]: packed with connections. Provides interface support for Spotify.
Onkyo [-]: only has Audyssey 2EQ

Denon [+]: has Audyssey Multi EQ / XT ?
Denon [+]: "reviewers" seem to appreciate a slightly better sound quality in 1912 vs 609
Denon [-]: no Spotify support

AirPlay doesn't seem to play a major part in this "fight" because you can always buy an affordable AppleTV (which I guess it's good to have anyhow) and enjoy this feature with Onkyo as well.

The 4k upscaling from Onkyo doesn't count much for me. Who has a 4k TV ?!
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post #43 of 59 Old 07-09-2011, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draggos View Post

I am a bit puzzled: are you saying that it's possible to stream and play video content from your iOS thing (e.g. wired from iTunes on PC or wireless from iPhone) to your TV set with the AirPlay feature of Denon?!? I thought they use the AirPlay feature for sound only.

Sorry for the confusion. It streams audio only to the Denon, but that's where I have gotten the most use out of Apple TV. I have primarily used it to stream playlists and internet radio for my whole-house system. For video, you'll need to keep the Apple TV connected, but there's plenty of room with the Denon inputs.
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post #44 of 59 Old 07-09-2011, 12:43 PM
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I noticed something strange:
the AVR-1912's specs sheet from the Denon site in UK list Audyssey MultiEQ XT while the same in the US site has only MultiEQ. It seems that the 1912 in Europe is an "enhanced" Audyssey MultiEQ XT.
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post #45 of 59 Old 07-09-2011, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draggos View Post
I noticed something strange:
the AVR-1912's specs sheet from the Denon site in UK list Audyssey MultiEQ XT while the same in the US site has only MultiEQ. It seems that the 1912 in Europe is an "enhanced" Audyssey MultiEQ XT.
I noticed the US Spec and that is why I just ordered the AVR-2112ci. Street pricing varies so much that while this thread compares two competing models based on MSRP that should just be a starting point for discussion. Even with the limitied distribution of the Denon the 2112ci can be bought for a good deal less than what most people are talking about here.

One does not really have to stretch much if any at all to get the 2112ci around the fleBay pricing posted above for the Onkyo.. The AVR-2212ci has the three year warranty and the better Audessy. That seems to me to be the no-brainer. The Marvel does not matter much as I won't be sending any video through the thing as I use a DUO for VP and switching duties. I have yet to see a mid-range receiver implement a VP properly anway.

Just another blank signature.
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post #46 of 59 Old 07-09-2011, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draggos View Post
I noticed something strange:
the AVR-1912's specs sheet from the Denon site in UK list Audyssey MultiEQ XT while the same in the US site has only MultiEQ. It seems that the 1912 in Europe is an "enhanced" Audyssey MultiEQ XT.
The European Denon AVR's often have some additional Features as they are not CI Models and lack RS232, 12V Triggers, etc. Also, Multi Zones are far less common in the European Market. Examples include the AVR-2310 in Europe having Preamp Outputs whereas the AVR-2310CI not offering Preamp Outputs. I believe this carried over to the 2311 and perhaps the 2112, but have not checked them out that carefully.

I do think the TX-NR609 and the rest of the x09 Series are going to prove to be a good bit more reliable than the past few Series since the x05. With the x05 even featuring Japanese Construction on the upper level Models and even the Malaysian Built x05's not having a great number of issues, this was when Onkyo came out with HDMI 1.3 before anyone else and practically reinvented themselves. Sadly, it seems each Series after seemed to start skimping on things more and more to the point where the x08 having the problem with the Serial Cable that causes the Remote Control to be inoperative, random Powering Ups, and finally the entire Front Panel not being functional. Onkyo is covering this regardless if out of Warranty and regardless of who owns it or if it was from an Authorized Dealer.

This whole episode is a pretty big Black Eye for Onkyo and I really think is also a wake up call as well. Call me an optimist, but I really think Onkyo is going to make sure the x09's are far less problematic.
Cheers,
AD

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post #47 of 59 Old 08-09-2011, 12:57 PM
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For only 70$ more you can get the 2112. It has Audyssey MultiEQ XT so it would be a step up from the 1912 (MultiEQ) ......

the Denon AVR 1912 has MultiEQ XT
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post #48 of 59 Old 08-09-2011, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theking2 View Post

the Denon AVR 1912 has MultiEQ XT

The Denon 1912 has MultEQ, at least it does in America. The 1712/2112/2312/3312 all have MultEQ XT. Not sure about the European model.
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post #49 of 59 Old 08-09-2011, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theking2 View Post

the Denon AVR 1912 has MultiEQ XT

You're responding to his post from 4 months ago?

As noted just a few posts above yours, the European 1912 has XT .. the USA model does not.

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post #50 of 59 Old 08-09-2011, 02:20 PM
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You're responding to his post from 4 months ago?.

wrong information posted 4 months ago still is wrong information unless it is corrected or removed. Shame on Denon to change product specs depending on locality.
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post #51 of 59 Old 08-09-2011, 02:47 PM
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^^
The OP of this thread is USA based so it was correct information then and it's still correct information now.

As this forum is based in the USA and the majority of posters are likely from the USA (Europe's thread is AVforums.com), unless the poster lists their location, the presumption is they are USA based and therefore our responses are based on the USA models.

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post #52 of 59 Old 09-12-2011, 06:55 PM
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I am deciding between the same receivers and was wondering why no one was considering the Yamaha v671 which seems to have the same features/price. Any guidance is appreciated.
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post #53 of 59 Old 09-14-2011, 11:33 PM
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I currently have a 7.1 setup with Yamaha v2600 which i got almost 4 years back. The amp is excellent and I am quite happy, however as now I have upgraded to a 1080p projector and play mostly blu ray some of the new audio formats cant be played on this. This amp was an excellent amp in its class at the time i bought it.

Is Onkyo or Denon can be a good replacement? If yes which one. Onkyo has good set of features and a good price point as well. Denon however has a slighly better sound. I am totally confused. Any suggestion?
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post #54 of 59 Old 09-15-2011, 04:38 AM
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^^
Only you can decide which is more important to you .... better features (Onkyo) or better sound (Denon).

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post #55 of 59 Old 03-02-2012, 10:50 AM
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I know this is a very old threat but I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

I bought the Onkyo 609 a few weeks back and really really like it. The only problem I am having is some issues with getting halo's around text when hooked up to my HTPC. I bought the Denon 1912 to see if that would fix it. It didn't so I know it's my TV that is the issue (Samsung LN52A530).

My opinion is that the sound quality can be very subjective and I won't even be able to tell a different between the two to be honest. Other than Airplay the Onkyo beats out the Denon IMO. One thing nobody really mentions is the user interface. The Onkyo's is so slick and elegant looking and the Denon looks like 8bit text from mainframe days. I'll always see and use the menu's and interface so having something that looks sleek and professional is more important than sound quality I won't be able to tell.

I still have yet to return the Denon but I want to play with it some more to give it a fair chance but as it sits right now the Onkyo is for me.
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post #56 of 59 Old 04-06-2012, 12:48 PM
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With both of these receivers at the same price, which one is the best deal? I am hearing that the Denon is better and that outside of the THX certification, Denon is the way to go.

Thoughts?

Thanks, Dave
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post #57 of 59 Old 04-06-2012, 05:23 PM
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^^
The 609 cannot EQ the sub as it uses the lowest version of Audyssey 2EQ, while the 1912 uses the next higher version MultEQ which can EQ the sub and has 2x as many speaker filters as does 2EQ.

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post #58 of 59 Old 04-20-2012, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post


This whole episode is a pretty big Black Eye for Onkyo and I really think is also a wake up call as well. Call me an optimist, but I really think Onkyo is going to make sure the x09's are far less problematic.Cheers,
AD

As an owner of multiple 2011 Onkyo receivers I can say THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN...

I really wanted to like the 609, I love the idea of the 4k upscaling and the Qdeo chip. But I cannot get ARC or the CEC feature of the Onkyo (called RHiD) to work properly, no matter what and quite frankly I'm tired of it. I use ARC all the time and I don't want to be forced to only 2.0 PCM via optical because I don't use my panel's TV tuner. Not only that, but the proven issue of proper 23.whatever fps handling and the sync issues and VP problems...I think there's a reason why the Denon is still about $60-$100 more than the Onkyo despite having fewer bells and whistles. Better quality/durability. This is important to me, as I do not have the resources to be one of those people who upgrade their electronics every couple of years.

So back the 609 goes and I'll give the 1912 a shot.

60" 1080p 3D Plasma Panel
3D 1080p Blu-Ray player
4K 7.2 Channel AVR

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post #59 of 59 Old 01-01-2014, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckp59 View Post

...


I considered the Onkyo 609 but you get what you pay for. So many features for $400 tells me they cut corners on the component quality.


Thanks,

chuckp

My experience with the Onkyo receivers has been that the HD models do indeed have a major issue with the HDMI/DSP/graphics board design.

They have apparently released a service bulletin for the TX-SR606 to address a design defect. They replace a set of capacitors on the HDMI board and include small bypass capacitors with the replacement, if they are not there already, to bring the board up to its revision specification.

Unfortunately their 'work-around' does not actually repair the design defect. It appears they are trying to lower the effective series resistance (ESR) of the filter capacitors on the output of the local regulators on the HDMI board by adding small bypass capacitors to the output capacitors. Unfortunately, many people have reported that the 'fix' is only temporary. As soon as the high heat on the board dries out the new capacitors, the HDMI fails again. There is one person advertising a repair service specific to this particular failure on E-Bay who claims that ALL shipped receivers of several models of Onkyo receiver will eventually fail when the capacitors on the HDMI switching board dry out under normal use, with the rate of failure dependent almost entirely on how hot that board gets, according to my analysis.

After buying, testing, and repairing several used Onkyo receivers, and checking the customer reviews of the Onkyo products that have an HDMI input switch (including the dedicated preamp/signal processor units), my conclusion is that every Onkyo product that includes an HDMI input switch/DSP/video controller will eventually experience a failure of the HDMI input switch and possibly the HDMI upscaling and the on-screen menu will also fail, due to excessive heat related to inadequate cooling of the power dissipation on the HDMI board itself.

My TX-SR606 had already failed. Changing the capacitors per the allegedly ''official' Onkyo service bulletin that is posted on the Internet (by unauthorized third parties most likely) is only a temporary repair because the new capacitors will dry out too.

The board has at least two kinds of chip (one to three DSP and one or two channels of graphics controller, depending on model) that dissipate considerable power. There are no heat sinks on these chips and no fan blowing on this board and the capacitors are rated for 85C. The chips get hot and because the board acts as the sole heat sink, the board also gets hot, and then the capacitors dry out, and then the local regulators start oscillating and all sorts of DSP-related audio and graphics problems arise, beginning with slow sync-up of the HDMI input channels and progressing to total audio and video failure on the HDMI interface board.

The repair that will actually fix this problem consists of the following, in general:
  • replace the capacitors on the HDMI board, or at least all capacitors that are potentially affected by this problem because they need all their original microfarads to keep doing their job, with 125C (mil spec rated) capacitors to try to keep them from drying out
  • add a cooling fan, either on top of the unit or inside the top cover of the unit, that blows directly on the HDMI board
  • keep the receiver in the open, and never place it in a closed cabinet or on carpet or put anything on top of it especially not magazines or vinyl LP records

Unlike the many people who so kindly posted a repair procedure on YouTube for the 606, and unlike the people who are repairing several models these units for a ridiculously low minimal fee on E-Bay, and unlike just about everyone else I know who has looked into this problem, it is my conclusion that every single Onkyo device with such an HDMI interface board will eventually fail unless they upgrade the capacitors and/or add a fan to the unit, and possibly also glue heat sinks on top of the graphics controller(s) and DSP processor(s). Of course once the unit is repaired it will most likely require adequate air flow around the unit to keep it from failing even with these modifications.

I consider all Onkyo HDMI receivers and processors to be 'defective by design' because of this one HDMI interface design problem. They could potentially push the failure far off into the future by using mil spec rated capacitors but it is likely that it will still fail eventually unless they actually reduce the temperature on that particular interface board.

Fortunately for the DIY crowd, anyone who is lucky enough to have a ready supply of cheap used Onkyo HD receivers such as Craig's List (the owners most likely already know about the HDMI failure even if they have not actually experienced it yet) can negotiate dirt cheap pricing and build up a collection of all the popular Onkyo models out there for a song. Then most of these receivers can be brought back to life simply by replacing all the capacitors on the HDMI board with mil spec components.

For the technically literate DIY crowd, the repair can be refined to just those capacitors that have actually experienced a failure or are likely to because of the function they are doing. Any capacitor that is actually providing a substantial energy reserve is using all its microfarads and is susceptible to causing an actual failure if lowering that capacitive energy reserve could impact performance of one or more functions.

For the rest of us, the correct solution is either send in your out-of-warranty product to the people on E-Bay who offer repair, or sell it on Craig's List for a song and buy something other than an Onkyo. This is a really sad commentary on the brand that it cannot add HD that actually performs in the long term without demanding from the consumer at least external thermal management that extends far beyond just making sure it has adequate room for unhindered air flow - it actually demands an external cooling fan too and that demand is not mentioned anywhere in the manual because it is of course ridiculous.

If I were the CEO and I actually understood the nature of this problem I would demand a permanent resolution to this problem for every Onkyo receiver that is still even potentially usable, including the entire installed base out there plus any that have already failed, because this failure has tarnished the brand and will inevitably begin to affect sales as word gets out that all of them probably fail eventually, many within the first year depending on how bad the thermal management is on the particular HDMI board design of the particular model and depending on the particular environment it is installed to and the usage pattern of the owner/operator.

If I were to buy a new Onkyo and did not want to replace capacitors I would plan on adding an external cooling fan on top of the unit smack dab in the right rear quarter where the HDMI board is. Just look at the HDMI input/output jacks on the rear panel and down through the vent slots in the top cover with a flashlight to find the chips on the board and place the external cooling fan right above them. The fan can be added simply with tie wraps if you are careful not to stick anything in the blades. There are many DIY internal fan modifications on the Internet that power the fan from the serial port on virtually all Onkyo models with HDMI. It should also be possible to power the fan directly off the main power with a simple regulator but then it would require a separate switch or the power would need to tap off somewhere after the power switch function i.e. on the output amp power supply or something.

For the completely technically illiterate, it should be adequate to simply have a small desk fan blowing down at the top of the receiver on low speed, just as long as it actually forces a considerable amount of flow through the vent holes of the case. I already do something like that with my laptop when I transcode movies or else it reboots. Onkyo is not the only manufacturer that is cutting corners on thermal management.

I like the Onkyo feature sets and I have a limited budget so I buy and repair these receivers for my own use at dirt cheap prices. There are literally dozens of them on the local San Francisco Bay Area Craig's List every single day of the year and the models keep changing toward the newer ones, but there are a substantial number of SD models out there too, and apparently they all sell for less than $100 (when they actually sell) despite the few luxury SD models that are advertised for up to $500 and never seem to sell.

So if all you need is a power amp, getting an old Onkyo receiver of any type with multichannel input and Pure Audio function would be a great stereo solution. If you need more than stereo amp you can use the direct mode and turn off the subwoofer and all the DSP functions like late night dynamic compression. loudness equalization, delays and level calibration (disable Audyssey calibration) etc. but keep in mind you will also have to pick a volume setting and keep it stable, possibly by setting the power-on volume setting to your required gain.
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