Amps worth the $$$ - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 73 Old 05-09-2011, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post
I just have to ask because I'm fairly curious. How do coaxials compared to waveguide designs? The JTRs price comparatively to some nice JBL screen arrays. Which would you pick and why?
I would pick the Screen arrays but if room is limited I would pick Danley.
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post #62 of 73 Old 05-09-2011, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

btw, the size of the speaker (bookshelf or floorstand) does not dictate the sensivity at all. Its 100% the drivers choose. Most dome designs will be lower sensitivity designs since domes rarely have higher sensitivity ratings.

I base my statements on experience looking at specs, only. Often, floorstanders are more efficient than bookshelf speakers.

I am not asserting that HAS to be the case, if you know what I mean?

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #63 of 73 Old 05-09-2011, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by lorenzzo View Post

Reading your comments citing 95+ sensitivity speakers, I'm wondering whether I've been making proper assumptions as to what the benchmark of efficiency is. What do you think average is and where high efficiency begins (prime, reasonably priced options exist)?

Im not sure I know how to answer this properly. I do not know if benchmarks or averages really matter when selecting any design. I think absolute numbers are more important. This means I think its important for everyone to findout their listening distance, their average SPL requirements, add 25 to 30dBs peaks to figure out the speaker design needed and amp requirements.

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post #64 of 73 Old 05-09-2011, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I base my statements on experience looking at specs, only. Often, floorstanders are more efficient than bookshelf speakers.

I am not asserting that HAS to be the case, if you know what I mean?

I know, I just want to stress that there is zero correlation in sensitivity wrt bookshelf vs floorstanders.

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post #65 of 73 Old 05-09-2011, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by lorenzzo View Post

Reading your comments citing 95+ sensitivity speakers, I'm wondering whether I've been making proper assumptions as to what the benchmark of efficiency is. What do you think average is and where high efficiency begins (prime, reasonably priced options exist)?

I saw a comment posted in reference to Stereophile where one of the fellows apparently said 87dB was the average of some 500+ speakers he had tested.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #66 of 73 Old 05-09-2011, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I know, I just want to stress that there is zero correlation in sensitivity wrt bookshelf vs floorstanders.

Not so sure I'd go so far as to say zero because from my personal observations and experience it seems at least partially true. Most of the sensitive speakers I'm familar with tend to be larger than bookshelf size...Klipsch, Cerwin Vega, JBL, old Altecs, etc. I'd could agree they're not necessarily related though.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #67 of 73 Old 05-09-2011, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Not so sure I'd go so far as to say zero because from my personal observations and experience it seems at least partially true. Most of the sensitive speakers I'm familar with tend to be larger than bookshelf size...Klipsch, Cerwin Vega, JBL, old Altecs, etc. I'd could agree they're not necessarily related though.


What Im saying its 100% based on driver selection. The size of the box has zero impact on the sensitivity of any driver.

Well, hang on........... I guess the box size goes hand and hand with the drivers size. Meaning high sensitivity woofers have to be larger ( 12" or 15") to be able to play any low frequencies. A 6.5" high sensitivity driver can not play very below 200Hz, its just one of those laws of physics things

So Micheal and you are correct. There isnt going to be a bookshelf design out there with a normal 6.5" woofer that has >= 95dB sensitivity.

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post #68 of 73 Old 05-09-2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

I saw a comment posted in reference to Stereophile where one of the fellows apparently said 87dB was the average of some 500+ speakers he had tested.

This corresponds with my understanding. It seems for high end speakers in particular, as you get over 90 you're dealing with above average efficiency. Although I guess the point is relative efficiency is an important consideration when evaluating alternatives, at least for many of us.
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post #69 of 73 Old 05-09-2011, 04:50 PM
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I've been surprised by the small size of some pretty efficient speakers, but they're usually frequency-limited by design.

The 17x8x11 enclosures with the Array horns and compression drivers in my HT have a sensitivity of 98 dB, while the companion 20x10x11 midbass enclosures with 8" cones are 92 db, and the big 34x21x22 subs with an 18" driver clock in at 97 dB.

Of course, if you stacked them all together, then that's a 71+" tall speaker. It would be tough/impossible to get them all in one enclosure that would be reasonable in most homes.

Those K2s I wrote about earlier are 93 dB, and the ATI amps are plenty with 200 to the top end and 200 to the bottom. As we discussed at the time of purchase, 300 wasn't really needed unless I was not going to do the passive bi-amp thing. Since I already had some boss-looking MonsterĀ® cables I'd gotten used in an equipment swap, there was no way I was going to miss the chance to have two black snakes going to each speaker.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #70 of 73 Old 06-15-2011, 09:42 PM
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It's been nearly five weeks, so I thought I'd pull this thread back from extinction with an update. Sometimes I get a piece of equipment and like it at at first, then it starts to irritate me. Once in a while, I get something I really like, then like it even more as time goes by.

I've had a couple of local meets with the JBL (Lansing Heritage) and AVS (LA Home Theater Group) folks at my place, and of course the ATI amps became a topic of discussion. While some had heard of ATI, especially as the manufacturer of Outlaw and JBL Synthesis amps, they weren't aware that it had its own ATI line. At first glance, they were somewhat indifferent due to the plain looks, but upon extended hearing and close examination they were very enthusiastic.

The hard core techies are impressed with the build quality and the romantics re impressed by the sound the amps got out of the JBLs. Perhaps the most impressive quality is how dynamic they are at low volumes as well as loud volumes. Some of the big name amps I brought in needed to be goosed before they really got going, but these ATIs are ready to do their best seemingly at any level.

Amps worth the $$$? Yes.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #71 of 73 Old 01-19-2012, 03:06 PM
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Seriously considering Outlaw 7900 for my JBL Project Array 1400s and 880, for a planned HT about a year from now. I agree that I can't hear the difference between the Outlaw and amps costing two or three times as much.
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post #72 of 73 Old 01-19-2012, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LeBon View Post

Seriously considering Outlaw 7900 for my JBL Project Array 1400s and 880, for a planned HT about a year from now. I agree that I can't hear the difference between the Outlaw and amps costing two or three times as much.

Love my Outlaw 7700 (7 channels x 200W). It rocks!

Like yourself, I did a lot of research when I decided to make the switch to separates.
I felt the Outlaw had the best value.
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post #73 of 73 Old 04-22-2012, 09:41 AM
 
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This thread is an interesting read. I purchased an Outlaw 7125 though I have yet to try it out. Everything I read on these amps(and ATI) is quite encouraging. It'll be fed by an Onkyo 876 and I'm curious to see what difference it'll make SQ wise.
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