The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 08:13 AM
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In a dedicated theater, I would think you'd want to add DSX Front wide speakers to expand the surround field ... and in that case the 3312CI is the only model to offer DSX. Would you ever want to display a video source on both the HT screen AND the family room TV at the same time? If so, again, the 3312CI would be the only model that offers this feature. Now if you can spring for the 4311, with the exception of not being able to display the GUI over 3D video, the same features are offered as well as upgrading to the more advanced Audyssey MultEQ XT 32 and being able to expand up to a 11.2 setup.

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post #122 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 08:14 AM
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Is it wise yo buy the 2311 at a discount price..instead of buying the new 2312 at the higher price...I currently have the 1910..but now I upgraded to a Sony 3d tv..and need my receiver to do 3d pass thru..and maybe a little more power for my two def tech tower speakers and my 7.1 set up(man this stuff sound great); which is 4 pro monitors 100 and I think the center channel is a 200 or something like that. What would u guys do??
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post #123 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Exactly right ... which is why we always suggest to choose the model based on one's budget and inputs and features required.

Another important feature of the 3312CI is the ability to output a video source to 2 HDMI TVs simultaneously whereas on the 3311CI, although having 2 Monitor Out jacks, can only output to a single TV at once.

True!

I forgot about the 2 HDMI outputs, which is VERY important for people with dual-use rooms containing both a projector and flat-screen display, or plan on it in the future.
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post #124 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubledgemini View Post

Is it wise yo buy the 2311 at a discount price..instead of buying the new 2312 at the higher price...I currently have the 1910..but now I upgraded to a Sony 3d tv..and need my receiver to do 3d pass thru..and maybe a little more power for my two def tech tower speakers and my 7.1 set up(man this stuff sound great); which is 4 pro monitors 100 and I think the center channel is a 200 or something like that. What would u guys do??

The 2311 can pass thru 3D but the 2312 can also overlay GUI on top of 3D. This is a good thing because the GUI looks crazy on my 3310 when I try to adjust something while watching 3D. The power difference between the 19 and 23 series will not be noticeable in my opinion but the MultiEQ XT on the 2312 or 3311 might give you an audible improvement.
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post #125 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 10:35 AM
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So going from the 1910s 90 Watts per channel to the 2311 or 2312 105 watts per channel will not affect the sound quality of my setup ( louder)... ...so should I just save money and get the 1912 then... If the biggest thing is that overlay while watching 3d... Is that really a big deal?
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post #126 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 10:45 AM
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I find the 2112 model interesting but I see that is doesn't support sacd playback over hdmi. Am I right or have I missed something?
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post #127 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 10:55 AM
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^^
DSD - no ....... PCM - yes

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post #128 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubledgemini View Post

So going from the 1910s 90 Watts per channel to the 2311 or 2312 105 watts per channel will not affect the sound quality of my setup ( louder)... ...so should I just save money and get the 1912 then... If the biggest thing is that overlay while watching 3d... Is that really a big deal?

As MJP points out ... no noticeable difference in power (keep in mind going from 64W to 128W only amounts to a 3db change in volume (barely noticeable) so going from 90W to 105W even more negligible), rather what would likely be more noticeable is going from MultEQ to MultEQ XT depending on the quality of your speakers.

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post #129 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
DSD - no ....... PCM - yes

Ok so if I connect my Oppo 93 via hdmi and choose PCM in the Oppo, then I can play sacd using the 2112?
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post #130 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 11:03 AM
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Yup.

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post #131 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 11:15 AM
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Hi: 2 questions about these 2 Denon's. First one is what if any differences are there to justify the $$$ diff between the 2? Second question is with my speakers (Axiom M-60's,VP-150 center, Mirage 190i's, would there be any difference in audio quality between reg. Audyssey and the XT version of it? Thanks for any opinions!
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post #132 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 11:26 AM
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We just got an AVR-1912 and I've been messing around playing audio files from a USB stick. So far two very obvious features are alluding me. I hope Denon didn't leave them out because they're digital file deakbreakers for me.

Is it possible to seek (fast forward) through mp3 and flac files? I didn't see anything in the manual and the seek keys on the remote aren't doing anything.

The other thing I'm looking for is the ability to jump between cue points in flac files.

Also, it would be nice if the avr would read song metadata from embedded flac cue files so that individual song info is displayed even for albums that are encoded as one big flac file. I think this is probably missing because my avr is showing my full album flac files as single songs.
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post #133 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereoguy99 View Post

Hi: 2 questions about these 2 Denon's. First one is what if any differences are there to justify the $$$ diff between the 2? Second question is with my speakers (Axiom M-60's,VP-150 center, Mirage 190i's, would there be any difference in audio quality between reg. Audyssey and the XT version of it? Thanks for any opinions!

Not if you don't need an extra feature the 2312CI offers (extra HDMI, video upscaling chip, 3D GUI overlay, component video out) ... otherwise they both use Audyssey MultEQ XT so no worries there. Yes, you would likely notice a difference between MultEQ and XT.

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post #134 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yup.

Thanks :-)
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post #135 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmx View Post

Is it possible to seek (fast forward) through mp3 and flac files? I didn't see anything in the manual and the seek keys on the remote aren't doing anything.

By "seek" do you mean the AUTO SEARCH (cue) "<<" and ">>" buttons (p. 43)?

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post #136 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 11:49 AM
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Anyone who knows if the 2112 can be used as a Digital Media Renderer?
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post #137 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpmb View Post

Crutchfield has the 2112 pre-order at $599.99.

http://www.crutchfield.com/s_033AV21..._2112&skipvs=T

And for the impatient (which includes me), Crutchfield is also claiming that the 2112ci will ship in two days (5/20). Last week they were indicating a ship date of 5/31. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it actually ships on Friday.
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post #138 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubledgemini View Post

If the biggest thing is that overlay while watching 3d... Is that really a big deal?

That just depends on the person. I have a 3310 and I've gotten so used to the volume overlay and GUI that I never even look at the receiver anymore. It's pretty much a must have feature for me. I don't care as much about the 3D overlay because I don't watch that much 3D so I it's not a huge deal. If the improved GUI/overlay doesn't matter to you then the 2112 would probably be a good pick. It would at least be a step up with MultiEQ XT so it's not just an upgrade for 3D pass-through/networking. Its only 70$ more than the 1912.
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post #139 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 12:43 PM
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I was just on some of the other forums...and they were talking about the avr 3311 and the 991 which are twins...what do think about stepping up to one of these models as they are very well discounted because of the new models to come...would you guys go for one of these or just spring for the 2112
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post #140 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

True, however, the difference in THD is not likely to be detectable, the 2# extra weight is negligible, the phono input can be easily replaced by a phono preamp if needed (which is why I didn't list it), and given the option of "free" internet radio or "pay a monthly fee" Sirius radio, most folks would choose internet radio which is likely why Denon has dropped it from all lower models. Of course if you want Sirius radio then you've got to go with the 3312CI, otherwise the only real reason IMHO would be for the preouts.

JDS -- on the 3312CI, I noticed the Rr. Panel does not have the Sirius Radio Connector that I could see, but says it supports it in textual writeups.

Also, the 3312CI does not have any Dig. Audio Optical OUT connector any longer, and the 3311 did have both of these.

Why is this?

Tks -- DPS
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post #141 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubledgemini View Post

I was just on some of the other forums...and they were talking about the avr 3311 and the 991 which are twins...what do think about stepping up to one of these models as they are very well discounted because of the new models to come...would you guys go for one of these or just spring for the 2112

Look at the 3311CI, I have one and totally love it. You should be able to get a new one for around 8 delivered to your door.

Check out all that it has, as it is one very nice AVR, and for that price well worth it, as the 3312 will be closer to one Grand.
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post #142 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post

JWhy is this?

because Denon decided to remove them

connections change / disappear all the time with successive models of receivers. we can only speculate as to the reasons but generally it's due to obsolescence of the inputs.

the optical out was really of very, very limited use. It could ONLY be used as a "loop" for a digital recorder with a corresponding optical input, and no other audio (analog or HDMI) could be "converted" to the optical out...

as far as I can tell, the 3312ci is NOT Sirius capable, there is no connector on the back as you point out and there is no mention in the manual.

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post #143 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubledgemini View Post

I was just on some of the other forums...and they were talking about the avr 3311 and the 991 which are twins...what do think about stepping up to one of these models as they are very well discounted because of the new models to come...would you guys go for one of these or just spring for the 2112

I would definitely look into that route if it was a larger room and/or dedicated theater. The 3311/991 will have MultEQ XT, more input/output options, more power, Audyssey DSX, and if you get the 3311 you will also have pre-outs in case you decide to add an external amp in the future. It's definitely a higher-end, more fully featured unit.

for a smaller room, moderate-volume living room type setup, it probably won't matter as much.

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post #144 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post

JDS -- on the 3312CI, I noticed the Rr. Panel does not have the Sirius Radio Connector that I could see, but says it supports it in textual writeups.

Yet another goof on Denon's QA folks by just copying and pasting from the 3311CI info.

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post #145 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 01:32 PM
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ok, I have to admit that I am new to this site and that I just know enough to dangerous... but I am looking at upgrading my overall system (I currently have a 13 yr old Yamaha) and I am considering either the Denon 3311 or the 3312 (possibly the Yamaha rx-v867, but am shying away from that now)... are the input/outputs the biggest changes to the Denon AVRs or is there "internal" processing that is different as well? Do they both upscale analog and digital to 1080p? If i install Front High speakers along with the surround backs... will the AVR automatically change to whatever is necessary depending on the "surround mode" I put it in?
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post #146 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

In a dedicated theater, I would think you'd want to add DSX Front wide speakers to expand the surround field ... and in that case the 3312CI is the only model to offer DSX. Would you ever want to display a video source on both the HT screen AND the family room TV at the same time? If so, again, the 3312CI would be the only model that offers this feature. Now if you can spring for the 4311, with the exception of not being able to display the GUI over 3D video, the same features are offered as well as upgrading to the more advanced Audyssey MultEQ XT 32 and being able to expand up to a 11.2 setup.

I am not adding DSX front wides at this time due to lack of space (width) and the walls are already drywalled and I did not plan for this. I would however LOVE to display the same movie or tv show (superbowl) on a tv in the other room of the basement if I could? How is this a possibility with the 3312 and how would I go about wiring it up? If you want to pm me your answer as to not clog this forum I would understand.

I dont think the 4311 can be had for anywhere close to the 3312.......can it?!?!

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post #147 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 01:37 PM
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I am not adding DSX front wides at this time due to lack of space (width) and the walls are already drywalled and I did not plan for this. I would however LOVE to display the same movie or tv show (superbowl) on a tv in the other room of the basement if I could? How is this a possibility with the 3312 and how would I go about wiring it up? If you want to pm me your answer as to not clog this forum I would understand.

I dont think the 4311 can be had for anywhere close to the 3312.......can it?!?!

The 3312CI has 2 HDMI Monitor outs (p. 108) that can both be selected to output a single video source to each of 2 TVs (limited to the lowest resolution if both are not the same resolution). No, the 4311CI is still about 2x the cost, just saying if it was in the budget.

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post #148 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 01:40 PM
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My room is; i believe to be 13 by 21...with two def tech bp6's bipolar loudspeakers...4 def tech pro 100...and the center channel is pro 200..which I think now is called the 2000 it's basically the same and my sub is def tech 10 inch 250 watts which now called the pro 1000... So do you think that the 3311/991 would be right for me..oh yea my display is a 55 inch Sony led 3d tv
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post #149 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post

Also, the 3312CI does not have any Dig. Audio Optical OUT connector any longer, and the 3311 did have both of these.

I noticed that on the 2112CI, too. No audio outputs at all (other than the analog-limited multi-zone outs).

That's gonna make it hard to connect my wireless headphones!
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post #150 of 19158 Old 05-18-2011, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubledgemini View Post

My room is; i believe to be 13 by 21...with two def tech bp6's bipolar loudspeakers...4 def tech pro 100...and the center channel is pro 200..which I think now is called the 2000 it's basically the same and my sub is def tech 10 inch 250 watts which now called the pro 1000... So do you think that the 3311/991 would be right for me..oh yea my display is a 55 inch Sony led 3d tv

Either of those would be more than enough as those DT speakers are fairly efficient at 92db @ 8 Ω. See this is how it works .... as a rough estimate of how much power the AVR will need to provide (on average .. not peak) take the efficiency of the front L/R speakers and subtract 10db for sitting an average distance of 12' from the speakers (92-10 = 82db) so at 1W of power from the AVR your speakers are outputting about 82db. Now consider how loud the test tones are at 75db (when you get the AVR) and your speakers are 5db louder than the test tones. So your speakers are actually drawing < 1W of power on average so the whole idea about is 90W or 105W or 125W enough really becomes moot except for really LOUD listening or in very large rooms or driving 4Ω speakers.

82db @ 1W
85db @ 2W
88db @ 4W
91db @ 8W
94db @ 16W
97db @ 32W

Estimated average TV listening level 60-70db. Average movie listening level 70-85db.
Per OSHA standards ... over 4 hours listening at 95db can cause hearing damage.

Moral of this story ... getting speakers just 3db more efficient is equivalent to getting an AVR that is 2x the power (ie. going from 86db speakers to 89db speakers = going from a 90W AVR to a 180W AVR).

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - AVSForum sponsor for 15 years  
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Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Oppo, Parasound 
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
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