The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX12 Model Owner's Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 19151 Old 05-19-2011, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

A few authorized resellers (Crutchfield, Audioholics, Listen Up (via Amazon)) are indicating the "CI" models (2112CI, 2312CI, and 3312CI) will start arriving in their stores either Friday May 20 or Monday May 23.

Crutchfield emailed me today to let me know that my 2112ci shipped today!
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post #182 of 19151 Old 05-19-2011, 06:37 PM
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I'm gonna be purchasing a Paradigm 5.1 system (adp-590, studio 100, studio cc-690, and sub-12), and I was wondering if the 3312 has enough power to run this system. I'm pretty sure I don't so I'll need an amp, but my friend said it should be okay. Is he right?
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post #183 of 19151 Old 05-19-2011, 06:49 PM
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I currently own the 1912, more than happy with home theatre and music performance (5 speaker mode as well). No problems to report yet.

Quick question: Is there no idle video pass through (ie: Sat/Cbl pass through only vid while audio is played via Airplay (Net/USB)). Maybe I am missing something, but it would be pretty cool to watch the game and stream music.

^This is probably a dumb question and I haven't read the manual cover to cover...but thought it would be worthwhile to see if there is a work-around.
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post #184 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 03:09 AM
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I'm tempted to pull the trigger on a 1911 for the same price as the MSRP on the 1712. From what I can gather from the Denon site, the two are about the same except the 1712 has more HDMI inputs. Am I correct? Would I be best to wait for the 1712?
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post #185 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnw009 View Post

I'm gonna be purchasing a Paradigm 5.1 system (adp-590, studio 100, studio cc-690, and sub-12), and I was wondering if the 3312 has enough power to run this system. I'm pretty sure I don't so I'll need an amp, but my friend said it should be okay. Is he right?

Most likely yes as the ADP-590's are fairly efficient and won't require much power. Although keep in mind the benefit of the 3312CI is you can always add an additional amp down the road if you so choose.

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post #186 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btest1 View Post

I currently own the 1912, more than happy with home theatre and music performance (5 speaker mode as well). No problems to report yet.

Quick question: Is there no idle video pass through (ie: Sat/Cbl pass through only vid while audio is played via Airplay (Net/USB)). Maybe I am missing something, but it would be pretty cool to watch the game and stream music.

There is actually .. it's called the "Video Select" feature (p. 98); however, you'll need to connect a component video cable from the Sat/Cbl box and use that input source for it to work as it doesn't work with HDMI sources.

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post #187 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 311mtb View Post

I'm tempted to pull the trigger on a 1911 for the same price as the MSRP on the 1712. From what I can gather from the Denon site, the two are about the same except the 1712 has more HDMI inputs. Am I correct? Would I be best to wait for the 1712?

As long as you don't need HD radio or a USB input, the 1712 offers the much better version of Audyssey MultEQ XT; however, if you are not familar with Audyssey, the regular MultEQ in the 1911 will still provide improved audio fidelty of your speakers.

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post #188 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 07:26 AM
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Now that the 2112 and stuff are shipping anyone manage to score a deal on them? J&R and Electronics Expo doesn't have them yet so can't call for a "better price". Wanting an AVR already since I've been without one for 6 months now. Speakers are gathering dust.
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post #189 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Airplay allows you to stream music straight from your ipod or iphone to the AVR.

If you're not maxing out the 1910, your other option is to simply upgrade your HDMI 1.3 BDP to a dual HDMI 1.4 BDP and pass the 3D video to the TV and HD audio to the 1910 as the PS3 cannot pass HD audio when playing 3D video.

Thanks for the info jd u make alot of sense. If I'm not maxing out my 1910 and all I need to do is get a 3d blu ray player with dual hdmi outs.. That would save money..and then I can wait until 4k comes to the main stream..because when that happens I will be stuck in the same situation again..then I would be putting another 1 1/2 year old receiver on the shelf...and money is to hard to come by..( buy gold and silver while u can still afford it)..thanks again; any ideas on which blu ray player to buy??
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post #190 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Most likely yes as the ADP-590's are fairly efficient and won't require much power. Although keep in mind the benefit of the 3312CI is you can always add an additional amp down the road if you so choose.

Thanks for the response JDS, but that didn't sound like a definite yes. I just don't want to strain the speakers if there isn't enough watts going through them. I have some amps in mind, but if I don't have to buy one I prefer that, but if it's gonna burn out the speakers in the long run I would definitely get an amp.
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post #191 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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how could anyone give a definitive yes???? for one thing, you didn't say how large your room is or how loud you are planning to listen, which are two incredibly important variables in the equation. All you said was "I'm planning to buy these speakers, can the 3312 drive them?" And even if we knew, it still might not be "definitive" considering the 3312 isn't even out yet! The "on paper" specs are fairly meaningless in situations like this....

the bottom line is that you will PROBABLY be fine but you may or may not have enough power to reach the volume you desire depending on other factors that we don't/can't know. So the only conceivable answer is "maybe/probably?" With speakers that nice, I would get the 3312 for sure just in case.... at least then you have the OPTION to add more amplification later.

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post #192 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As long as you don't need HD radio or a USB input, the 1712 offers the much better version of Audyssey MultEQ XT; however, if you are not familar with Audyssey, the regular MultEQ in the 1911 will still provide improved audio fidelty of your speakers.

Buy the 1911. It's a better receiver. There is no analog-HDMI video conversion in a 1712 and MultEQ XT in a receiver at that price is the same thing as putting 20" wheels on a Honda.
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post #193 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 09:00 AM
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Is this something NEW on the 3312CI?

"Cinema Equalizer

The sound from movie sources recorded in Dolby Digital, dts, or other formats emphasizes high-frequency range due to a theaters front speakers being placed behind the movie screen. If this sound is reproduced in the home theater without correction, the high-frequency range can be too strong. Denon amplifiers feature a Cinema Equalizer to correct these high-frequency components so that the sound is clearer and easier to listen to."
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post #194 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyclave View Post

Buy the 1911. It's a better receiver. There is no analog-HDMI video conversion in a 1712 and MultEQ XT in a receiver at that price is the same thing as putting 20" wheels on a Honda.

I think your statement applies more to video upconversion honestly. How much of a benefit will you see from video upconversion on a receiver at this price?

I have a similar dilemma, I'm trying to decide between the 891 and the 1712. So far the 1712 is winning because of MultEQ XT.
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post #195 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

how could anyone give a definitive yes???? for one thing, you didn't say how large your room is or how loud you are planning to listen, which are two incredibly important variables in the equation. All you said was "I'm planning to buy these speakers, can the 3312 drive them?" And even if we knew, it still might not be "definitive" considering the 3312 isn't even out yet! The "on paper" specs are fairly meaningless in situations like this....

the bottom line is that you will PROBABLY be fine but you may or may not have enough power to reach the volume you desire depending on other factors that we don't/can't know. So the only conceivable answer is "maybe/probably?" With speakers that nice, I would get the 3312 for sure just in case.... at least then you have the OPTION to add more amplification later.

Ditto -- Agree totally with BatPig, get the Denon AVR-3312CI as if you like to Crank up the Volume and play it loud it will get you closer to there w/o an amp. My Klipsch's are 92db sensitivity, room size = 18x24x10', and I added an Emotiva XPA-5, and now PLENTY of headroom. Most Music we play is in Stereo, but like yesterday we had it cranked up to -3db in Mult Ch Stereo Mode, and it was Blasting w/no noticeable distortion (Neighbor wanted to hear it ).
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post #196 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post

Is this something NEW on the 3312CI?

"Cinema Equalizer

The sound from movie sources recorded in Dolby Digital, dts, or other formats emphasizes high-frequency range due to a theaters front speakers being placed behind the movie screen. If this sound is reproduced in the home theater without correction, the high-frequency range can be too strong. Denon amplifiers feature a Cinema Equalizer to correct these high-frequency components so that the sound is clearer and easier to listen to."

No I’ve got Cinema EQ on my 3310. I'm pretty sure the 3311 has it too but I can't remember what screen it’s under. It just rolls off the highs to make the sound a little less bright. I don't usually use it.
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post #197 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 09:36 AM
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I have a quick question about the 1912...

I use a component video connection to connect my son's Wii to it. If you notice the component video input on the receiver, it is labeled as sat/cable. So, I connected the audio portion of the 5 pin component video/audio cable to the sat/cable audio in terminals. See attached diagram for details.

I then redefined the component video input to Game 1 and the video worked just fine and would come on when I pressed the Game 1 input selector, but the audio from the Wii woudn't work, because the receiver does not give me the option of redefining the AUDIO terminals labeled Sat/Cable to Game 1.

The only way I could fix it was to move the actual cable STB HDMI input from Sat/Cable to the Game 1 HDMI input and let the receiver think that the Wii was actually from sat/cable. This then enabled the audio to work.

The unfortunate side effect is that the labeled buttons at the top of the remote now are wrong - pressing SAT/CABLE goes to Wii and Game 1 goes to SAT/CABLE.

Is there a better way to redefine the sat/cable audio L/R inputs to Game 1? Or is there no easy workaround? I still need to connect a VCR to the unit, so I am wondering how to juggle things around to do this... I may need to call the VCR a DVD because the only composite inputs to the receiver are labeled DVD and BD or something like that, and the BD is already taken.
LL
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post #198 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 09:44 AM
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As you learned, the analog inputs are not assignable; however, the HDMI and component input is. So pick an analog input not being used and assign the component input to that label name.

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post #199 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnw009 View Post

Thanks for the response JDS, but that didn't sound like a definite yes. I just don't want to strain the speakers if there isn't enough watts going through them. I have some amps in mind, but if I don't have to buy one I prefer that, but if it's gonna burn out the speakers in the long run I would definitely get an amp.

Hard to say as we're not you. My point was simply that as long as you get the 3312CI you can always add external amp(s) later if you want.

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post #200 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubledgemini View Post

... any ideas on which blu ray player to buy??

Sorry, no. Although there's likely a thread on it in the forum.

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post #201 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyclave View Post

Buy the 1911. It's a better receiver. There is no analog-HDMI video conversion in a 1712 and MultEQ XT in a receiver at that price is the same thing as putting 20" wheels on a Honda.

The 1712 isn't out yet, but as they are both 90W rated and the 1712 has a newer processor, I would venture to guess it's actually the better AVR and adding MultEQ XT to it easily makes it better. IMHO the only reason to go with the 1911 is if it can be had for cheaper or if HD radio or a USB is required.

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post #202 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 09:59 AM
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Do any of the xx12 models have Pro-Logic IIx or IIz processing? Their website says no. That can't be right can it?
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post #203 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreventerWind View Post

How much of a benefit will you see from video upconversion on a receiver at this price?

You're likely confusing "upconversion" with "upscaling." If the OP has a component or other analog video input, "upconversion" would be required if he wanted to use the HDMI output for all sources as it is the process that allows it to pass at that same resolution via the HDMI output while "upscaling/deinterlacing" is the processing that would increase the resolution to 1080p. The 1912 is the lowest model that features "upconversion" while the 2312CI is the lowest model that features both "upconversion" and "upscaling."

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post #204 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubledgemini View Post

buy gold and silver while u can still afford it)..thanks again; any ideas on which blu ray player to buy??

what are you going to do with your gold and silver? walk into Walmart and buy some shoes with it? Buy land and cattle

check out the oppo 93 if you want dual HDMI out, arguably one of the best BDP's out there

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post #205 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dsmith1 View Post

Do any of the xx12 models have Pro-Logic IIx or IIz processing? Their website says no. That can't be right can it?

No it is not correct. Every 7.1 model (ie. 1712 and higher) uses PLIIx and PLIIz. The 1612 also features both if a 2CH external amp is added.

As pointed out in post #3 of this thread ...

1. When using Denon's "COMPARE" feature on their website to compare the various models, note that in some instances (eg. 3311CI-->3312CI and 2311CI-->2312CI), the information is either incorrect or missing (ie. XX12 models have not lost anything major compared to their XX11 predecessors). This is also the case when looking at individual model spec pages as well. For clarification, download and review the respective Owner's manuals or post your question in this thread.

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post #206 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

No it is not correct. Every 7.1 model (ie. 1712 and higher) uses PLIIx and PLIIz.

As pointed out in post #3 of this thread ...

1. When using Denon's "COMPARE" feature on their website to compare the various models, note that in some instances (eg. 3311CI-->3312CI and 2311CI-->2312CI), the information is either incorrect or missing (ie. XX12 models have not lost anything major compared to their XX11 predecessors). This is also the case when looking at individual model spec pages as well. For clarification, download and review the respective Owner's manuals or post your question in this thread.

Thanks for the info. I knew that didn't make any sense. It scared me for a minute. I thought I was going to have replace my Onkyo 705 with the Onkyo 709.
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post #207 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenPureSound View Post

Is this something NEW on the 3312CI?

"Cinema Equalizer

The sound from movie sources recorded in Dolby Digital, dts, or other formats emphasizes high-frequency range due to a theaters front speakers being placed behind the movie screen. If this sound is reproduced in the home theater without correction, the high-frequency range can be too strong. Denon amplifiers feature a Cinema Equalizer to correct these high-frequency components so that the sound is clearer and easier to listen to."


Cinema EQ has been a feature on Denon receivers for at least 10-15 years.

Almost EVERY digital receiver (not just Denon) has had some sort of "high freq rolloff" setting since digital Laser Disc & DVD soundtracks started coming out.

It's essentially an outdated technology at this point, having been superceded by things like THX RE-EQ and now Audyssey MultEQ, which incorporate their own high freq roll-offs to translate the film soundtrack into the home environment.

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post #208 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

You're likely confusing "upconversion" with "upscaling." If the OP has a component or other analog video input, "upconversion" would be required if he wanted to use the HDMI output for all sources as it is the process that allows it to pass at that same resolution via the HDMI output while "upscaling/deinterlacing" is the processing that would increase the resolution to 1080p. The 1912 is the lowest model that features "upconversion" while the 2312CI is the lowest model that features both "upconversion" and "upscaling."

You're right. I completely misread that post. I'm not feeling that well today. Also its easy to lose track when you're talking about so many different receiver models.
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post #209 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 11:42 AM
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post #210 of 19151 Old 05-20-2011, 12:42 PM
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One thing that I'm curious about is why did they put MultEQ XT on the 1712 and not the 1912? Why skip the 1912 model but put it on the step down model?
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Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

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Denon , Denon Avr 1312 Receiver , Denon Avr 1612 Receiver , Denon Avr 1712 Receiver , Denon Avr 1912 Receiver , Denon Avr 2112ci Receiver , Denon Avr 2312ci Receiver , Denon Avr3312ci Receiver
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