Cary Cinema 12 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 379 Old 07-16-2011, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfugh View Post

Quick question:

Does the display the Cinema 12 is attached to via HDMI have to be on in order to playback MC music (SACD or DVD-A) from the source though the HDMI connection to the 12?

Also, can you turn off HDMI CEC in the 12 or the ARC function of HDMI 1.4

There is an issue with this in the 1.4 upgrade on the Cinema 11A

Thanks
Mark

Can a 12 owner confirm the above, thanks.
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post #92 of 379 Old 07-16-2011, 07:18 PM
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The Cinema 12 that I am testing has Firmware V1.01 as well.... the Cinema 12 even shows the Date of the Firmware, June 2011 (thanks golfugh)
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post #93 of 379 Old 07-20-2011, 03:27 PM
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I am a new Cinema 12 owner and I must say WOW! The sound of this unit is incredible. I am very impressed. It replaced an Arcam AV888 and a benchmark DAC in my system so I was fortunate enough to do several A/B comparisons of them all and I must say I was blown away. I expected the Cary to best the Arcam in 2 channel music, but I did not expect it to be by such a large margin. Not only that, but it added much more detail to movies that I didn't realize was missing from the Arcam. I was also surprised to see that the unit bested the highly acclaimed benchmark DAC1 in two channel music. Needless to say, I am quite satisfied with this product.

As far as the issues listed above the only two I have noticed are the delay when locking onto a signal and the freeze up with television audio.

The first problem was resolved by putting the unit into CD Pure Audio mode. That eliminated the second it took to lock onto a signal.

The second problem, only happens very rarely to me and only on broadcast signals. I have yet to see the issue from my media server or from my bluray player.

I would also like to let everyone know that I had an issue with one of Cary Audio's dealers. I won't get into the details, but it resulted in me contacting Cary directly. I must say Cary went out of their way to take care of me and I am extremely pleased with their customer service. That type of care and concern for their customers is something that seems to be almost gone and it was refreshing to see customer service still exists.
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post #94 of 379 Old 07-20-2011, 04:16 PM
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B&WKURO, I am glad to hear you are enjoying your new Cinema 12 ! I have yet to be able to do a direct A/B with the Cinema 12 and Anthem AVM50v since the Anthem has a weird issue where it takes 20 minutes to output audio the first time you connect up cables..... But I would suggest not listening to the Anthem !
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post #95 of 379 Old 07-20-2011, 05:31 PM
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B&WKURO

For your first solution, wouldn't that only help in 2 channel audio? What about dolby digital?

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post #96 of 379 Old 07-20-2011, 08:08 PM
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Jim - that solution only works for 2 channel. It does not help with dolby digital. 2 channel is the most important aspect for me so solving it on that front was huge.

Hopefully there is a fix for this issue in the works.

capwkidd - I have heard the anthem, it is amazing for movies! It did leave something to be desired for 2 channel though. I would love to hear your thoughts if you are able to get that issue resolved and A/B them.
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post #97 of 379 Old 07-21-2011, 11:23 AM
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Just some background on what the effects are for CD Pure Audio mode-at least in the 11a- as this issue is endemic to the ''listening profiles'' ie bass management in the cary so has obvious consequences for any multichannel sp/dif signal like dd5.1 that need bass management unfortunately ..
Maybe its one of those things where once you notice it once it continues to grate ;hope not
<(6) Added CD Pure Audio mode in the ADVANCED SETTINGS of the SETUP
MENU. This feature can be set to OFF or ON. When a 44.1kHz 16 bit CD is
played back in the Off mode, the audio is being run through your preselected
LISTENING PROFILE. When CD audio is playback in the On mode, the
audio signal will bypass the LISTENING PROFILE and be played back directly
with no effects to the signal. This is to remedy the issue some users were
experiencing with audio dropouts between tracks of CD's when the player was
hooked up to the Cinema 11a digitally.>
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post #98 of 379 Old 07-22-2011, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B&WKURO View Post

capwkidd - I have heard the anthem, it is amazing for movies! It did leave something to be desired for 2 channel though. I would love to hear your thoughts if you are able to get that issue resolved and A/B them.

Will do!
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post #99 of 379 Old 07-22-2011, 01:53 PM
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cwt: Is this why the Cary always shows "PCM 48k" on the display, instead of 44.1k? I guess I will. Have to try that out....
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post #100 of 379 Old 07-22-2011, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capwkidd View Post

cwt: Is this why the Cary always shows "PCM 48k" on the display, instead of 44.1k? I guess I will. Have to try that out....

Thats another separate quirk of the cary ; couldnt understand that at all until I read the home theater review ; it doesnt like 44.1 and upsamples like anthem

Quote:


the Cinema 11a upconverts digital signals that have sample rates lower than 48k to that rate before processing. It passes signals with higher sample rates to the DSP chips at their native resolution.

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post #101 of 379 Old 07-22-2011, 11:58 PM
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I turned on "pure audio mode" and I still see 48k... So, it bypassed the listening preferences but not the up sampling?
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post #102 of 379 Old 07-23-2011, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capwkidd View Post
I turned on "pure audio mode" and I still see 48k... So, it bypassed the listening preferences but not the up sampling?
Maybe a poor wording in the review ? and its an upsampling dac instead. Easy way to find out is to check the specs for the burr brown 1796 if the info is available .. theres a few types of the 1796 Wonder if the 32/192 jobs in the 12 upsample ?
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post #103 of 379 Old 07-31-2011, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B&WKURO View Post

I am a new Cinema 12 owner and I must say WOW! The sound of this unit is incredible. I am very impressed. It replaced an Arcam AV888 and a benchmark DAC in my system so I was fortunate enough to do several A/B comparisons of them all and I must say I was blown away. I expected the Cary to best the Arcam in 2 channel music, but I did not expect it to be by such a large margin

It does sound impressive, and I do believe that it sets the standard at that price point.

I haven't heard the benchmark DAC so it's interesting that you think it's better than that, which is praise indeed. What power/speaker combo did you use ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by B&WKURO View Post

I must say Cary went out of their way to take care of me and I am extremely pleased with their customer service. That type of care and concern for their customers is something that seems to be almost gone and it was refreshing to see customer service still exists.

I have always found Billy (the Pres) and colleagues to be courteous and willing to investigate issues. I know others have had issues in the past but I can only say from my own experience that the company listens and tries to help.
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post #104 of 379 Old 07-31-2011, 01:58 PM
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This love fest seems to ignore some of problems still outstanding with the Cinema 12 that makes it unusable for many of us.

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post #105 of 379 Old 07-31-2011, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
This love fest seems to ignore some of problems still outstanding with the Cinema 12 that makes it unusable for many of us.
Fair point and the reason that, despite being the OP, I eventually decided that it wasn't the right unit for me so have switched to the Classe SSP-800.

OK, admittedly that unit is not in the same price bracket as the Cary but, based in part on the issues raised and the likely time required to fix them, I decided to pay the extra and it has already proved to be a better match for my requirements.

Nevertheless I stand by my assertion that the Cinema 12, on sound quality alone, is an impressive unit. If Cary can indeed crack the functionality issues then they have a winner on their hands for folks looking in the $4k region.
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post #106 of 379 Old 07-31-2011, 04:17 PM
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Why does it seem that all roads lead to the Classe SSP-800?

blem....thanks for your honesty.

If the outstanding issues on the Cinema 12 were corrected, would you say the Classe SSP-800 is still a better sounding/performing piece which would be understandable at its price point.

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post #107 of 379 Old 07-31-2011, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Why does it seem that all roads lead to the Classe SSP-800?
It's an outstanding piece of kit that gives the Krell 707 and Meridian 861v6 a run for their money (they are better still of course), but at less than half their retail. It might seem daft to be saying 'value for money' for something with little change from $10k, but that's precisely what it is.

Classe have said themselves that the SSP-800 is their best selling unit ever and, now in it's Mark III version since 2009 (having had both DSP and HDMI upgrades), is proving able to stand the test of time.

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If the outstanding issues on the Cinema 12 were corrected, would you say the Classe SSP-800 is still a better sounding/performing piece which would be understandable at its price point.
Oh yes, it's not even close; the Classe is a whole other level of quality, but then it's also over double the cost of the Cary (in $... in £ they are alot closer).

The Cary itself is impressive at it's price point and, to my ears (and it seems to other people's too), better than anything else in it's own price bracket.
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post #108 of 379 Old 08-02-2011, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by blem View Post

It's an outstanding piece of kit that gives the Krell 707 and Meridian 861v6 a run for their money (they are better still of course), but at less than half their retail. It might seem daft to be saying 'value for money' for something with little change from $10k, but that's precisely what it is.

Classe have said themselves that the SSP-800 is their best selling unit ever and, now in it's Mark III version since 2009 (having had both DSP and HDMI upgrades), is proving able to stand the test of time.



Oh yes, it's not even close; the Classe is a whole other level of quality, but then it's also over double the cost of the Cary (in $... in £ they are alot closer).

The Cary itself is impressive at it's price point and, to my ears (and it seems to other people's too), better than anything else in it's own price bracket.

I am a bit confused. When you started the thread you said the Cary is almost close to the SSP 800. Now you say it is not even close. Now Are you saying that the Classe is way better in the sound department - for simplicity let us ignore the other issues of the Cary
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post #109 of 379 Old 08-03-2011, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by a2k2000 View Post

I am a bit confused. When you started the thread you said the Cary is almost close to the SSP 800. Now you say it is not even close. Now Are you saying that the Classe is way better in the sound department - for simplicity let us ignore the other issues of the Cary

Looking back what I said was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by blem View Post

the only audio-unit that Cary seems to be competing with in this 4-7k range is the Classe SSP-800 and the difference in sound quality between that and the Cary 12 is now much smaller than it was when it was the SSP-800 vs the 11a

and the Classe was mentioned again by YTW here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by YTW View Post

the analog audio on the C12 is excellent and right up there with the Classe SSP800. I could have purchased the Classe if the C12 does not sound just as good and cost a bit less since I can get better local service from Classe than Cary should anything goes wrong

so I don't think any poster has said that the Cinema 12 is as good as the SSP-800, only that the difference is much closer than it was compared with the 11a, so the 12 could be considered good value.

Having now been able to AB the units for a few hours in the same room, one after the other on 2-channel music using the internal DACs (which is my primary requirement), I found that the SSP-800 remained considerably better, but your mileage will vary if you're more interested in analogue or decoding of dvd/blu-ray tracks.
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post #110 of 379 Old 08-03-2011, 06:48 AM
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Blem,

If you happen to have the Oppo 95 where you have a volume control in the DACs, please compare running the Oppo 95 directly to the amp bypassing the prepro. Just curious how that compares to the SSP-800 and Cinema 12.

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post #111 of 379 Old 08-03-2011, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

If you happen to have the Oppo 95 where you have a volume control in the DACs, please compare running the Oppo 95 directly to the amp bypassing the prepro. Just curious how that compares to the SSP-800 and Cinema 12.

Sorry Jim but I have an unmod'd (but multiregion) Oppo 83. I find it more cost-effective to put my money into my PreAmp Processor's DAC - which therefore benefits all my sources - rather than paying extra for units with their own improved DAC/analogue stage, such as the 83SE or a 95.

If it helps, I've read accounts of folks having compared the Sabre in the 95 via analogue to the 800's internal DACs and found them to be very close... which is 'better' might be more down to taste than anything particularly objective.
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post #112 of 379 Old 08-03-2011, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blem View Post

Looking back what I said was:



and the Classe was mentioned again by YTW here:



so I don't think any poster has said that the Cinema 12 is as good as the SSP-800, only that the difference is much closer than it was compared with the 11a, so the 12 could be considered good value.

Having now been able to AB the units for a few hours in the same room, one after the other on 2-channel music using the internal DACs (which is my primary requirement), I found that the SSP-800 remained considerably better, but your mileage will vary if you're more interested in analogue or decoding of dvd/blu-ray tracks.


Blem I apologize for reading between the lines. Thanks for the clarification. I prefer to use the DAC's in the Pre-pro - makes connections simpler. Having said that when you say the Classe SSP 800 was significantly better can you describe it.

I did have the chance to listen to both of them but not AB. I thought the Classe was a tad more warmer and a little less smooth on the upper end. I also had a chance to listen to the Classe CP800 and that had significantly different sound signature. More detailed than the SSP 800 but less warmer.
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post #113 of 379 Old 08-03-2011, 06:25 PM
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Other than this 1-second lag thing, what other functional problems does the Cary 12 exhibit?
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post #114 of 379 Old 08-03-2011, 06:32 PM
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The unit has some major issues. The most alarming was when you are playing a song and press the stop button in the middle of the song it sends a huge thump to the speaker. I freaked out the first time as it was pretty loud. Turned down the volume and same issue. It also has sever handshaking issues with the T.V.
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post #115 of 379 Old 08-03-2011, 06:34 PM
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Can someone who had a Cinema 11a and moved up to cinema 12 confirm if the cinema 11a with the HDMI board had the issues of missing the 1st second of music as well as the speaker thump.
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post #116 of 379 Old 08-03-2011, 06:38 PM
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Cinema 11A with the 1.4 board had less pops than the 11A without, but still had them (occasionally) very quiet for the most part. The only major issue I had was the problem with the display having to be on if connected via HDMI in order to listen to music.
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post #117 of 379 Old 08-03-2011, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfugh View Post
Cinema 11A with the 1.4 board had less pops than the 11A without, but still had them (occasionally) very quiet for the most part. The only major issue I had was the problem with the display having to be on if connected via HDMI in order to listen to music.
Are you getting these pops in the Cinema 2 now?
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post #118 of 379 Old 08-04-2011, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blem View Post

Fair point and the reason that, despite being the OP, I eventually decided that it wasn't the right unit for me so have switched to the Classe SSP-800.

I'm not surprised. I was in the same boat with the 11a 2 years ago. When I dumped it for the Classe, I never looked back. You made a good decision.

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post #119 of 379 Old 08-04-2011, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastl View Post

Other than this 1-second lag thing, what other functional problems does the Cary 12 exhibit?

The issue that I've read about on this thread that is a deal breaker for me is that if you are using something like a Tivo or satellite/cable DVR and use the forward 30 second or back 8 seconds, it freezes and takes about 30 seconds for it to resynch. Effectively makes it unusable for TV watching for me. Others have said that the 11a had the same problem that they've been complaining about for quite a while....so, it doesn't sound like its fixable or that they have the competence to fix it.

I still hang out on this thread due to the good company.

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post #120 of 379 Old 08-04-2011, 04:51 PM
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I had listen to the Classe before I decided on the Cinema 12. Infact it was because it came so close in sound quality that I made the decision. Even though I am pretty happy with the C12 for a few months now, I was still wondering if the Classe would sound a lot better in my system. I am way over 40 now and I have to admit that my hearing is no longer as good as I used to be. Last weekend came the chance, I met a friend of mind in a restaurant, he teach music and play violin for a living and the two people with him also play in the local Orchestra as he introduced. I offered to pay their bill if they went home with me and listened to the Cinema 12 and then to the store to compare with the Classe. They said that they were glad to do it for free but somehow I still end up paying the bill . At the end of the day I was told they were not too familiar with home audio equipments but they told me that the Cinema 12 seemed more detail in instruments and sound more like the real thing. That comment is good enough for me to have a peace of mind for now. One thing to note is that my setup is different from that of the store. They had Classe power amplifer and I had Simaudio amp, there speakers were Wilson while mind were Dynaudio, there player was Denon while mind was Oppp 95. If Cary would fix the problems on HDMI then the C12 will be a really good buy for sure.
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