How do I verify - or debunk - the claims of The Upgrade Company? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 1596 Old 05-23-2011, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

...

They go on to claim that "The Onkyo Profesisional 5508 prepro has been designed and built to "Pro" standards, not consumer like Marantz, Integra, Anthem, Classe, McIntosh & others that use less costly switching power supplies, often pseudo-balanced architecture."

...

"Pro" standards not being a defined term means nothing.

Are they saying one uses a switching power supply and the other does not? Or one uses a cheaper switching power supply? That part seems questionanble to me?

I have no idea what a pseudo balanced architecture is. Few pre processors are fully balanced though.

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post #32 of 1596 Old 05-23-2011, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

AFAIK, there is no such thing as a "THX PRO" certification. Both the 5508 and the 80.2 are THX Ultra2 Plus certified.


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post #33 of 1596 Old 05-23-2011, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

"Pro" standards not being a defined term means nothing.

Are they saying one uses a switching power supply and the other does not? Or one uses a cheaper switching power supply? That part seems questionanble to me?

I have no idea what a pseudo balanced architecture is. Few pre processors are fully balanced though.

The point is that TUC lauds the 5508 for its better construction and dumps on the 80.2 for it's inferior sound ... when the truth is that they are identical.

Jeff
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post #34 of 1596 Old 05-23-2011, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthandluke View Post

the onkyo pic is flipped...

Ahhh that explains it. I can't make out the lettering on the Onkyo transformer. Is it backwards? If the picture is in fact flipped then the two appear to be identical.

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post #35 of 1596 Old 05-23-2011, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

The point is that TUC lauds the 5508 for its better construction and dumps on the 80.2 for it's inferior sound ... when the truth is that they are identical.

Jeff

Maybe thats why DS thinks his "Mods" sound so good. He is too busy trashing other companies products that he has convinced himself and his loyal fans that his "Modded" products sound so superior. Its pretty sad if you ask me.

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post #36 of 1596 Old 05-23-2011, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Ahhh that explains it. I can't make out the lettering on the Onkyo transformer. Is it backwards? If the picture is in fact flipped then the two appear to be identical.

Bill

Sorry, I flipped instead of rotated! These are the best pictures I could find online of the insides. Let me try again:




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post #37 of 1596 Old 05-23-2011, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Open PM to Dave Shulte:

Hi Dave,

I have started a thread on your comments regarding the Onkyo 5508 being better built than the Integra 80.2. As far as I and everyone else knows, they are identical (with the exception of cosmetics and Pure Audio). Here's the thread if you are interested.

Regards,
Jeff

What did Dave say when you called him up and asked him about it?
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post #38 of 1596 Old 05-23-2011, 09:20 PM
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[quote=Bill Mac;20476928]
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post


Jeff,

You are 100% correct in that the comparisons would be subjective. But TUC's claims of his modded 5508 having better SQ of prepros costing 3-4 times that of TUC's 5508 should not be hard to disprove IMO. Add that to the fact DS refuses to divulge what actual "Mods" are being done makes me even more skeptical of his claims.



I believe that forum member alanl715 might be of some help in that regard. If I recall Alan compared part numbers to a few specific internal components of both the 9.9 and 886. Again if I recall correctly (very poor memory here) Alan found that the part numbers were identical. I wish I could recall what thread these posts were in but I can't. I believe that if you can clearly show the 80.2 and the 5508 are in fact identical internally that will really show what TUC is all about. I'm sure DS will come up with some lame excuse and that copy will quickly disappear from TUC's site.

In fairness to Alan I hope I have the facts straight on this as it was quite awhile ago. Alan has been an excellent source of information for Integra and Onkyo owners in the past.

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post #39 of 1596 Old 05-23-2011, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Seeing as how the Integra division of Onkyo has much more strict controls over their dealers and distribution than the Onkyo division does, I'm pretty sure no authorized Integra dealer wants to get caught selling him 80.2's to resell as modded units, it's not worth the risk of a Integra dealer to get caught selling to places like TUC and then lose their right to sell Integra branded products after getting caught. So I think the only reason he is making this better "claim" for the 5508 over the 80.2, is because he has someone that will supply him with 5508's at a great price, and then he can turn around and resell them modded with even a better profit.

JohnLA...I agree with your comment. Keep in mind that OnkyoPro, Onkyo, and Integra are all different product lines subject to a different dealer agreement and sales / support sites.
Usually the Integra and Onkyo products are 'repped' by the same independent rep firm and OnkyoPro is 'repped' by musical instrument/pro audio oriented rep firms.
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post #40 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 12:40 AM
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Bill I would say firmware will likely be different for a start, as for what else is different it would be hard to say, as I don't own both unit to compare them to each other though I suspect the integra will likely more user options given the target audience it is looking at..
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post #41 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 02:50 AM
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looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...it is a duck..

in this case they look like the identical duck...just wearing different tuxedos

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post #42 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanl715 View Post

You are correct and I am blushing.

Hey Alan,

Didn't mean to put you on the spot but credit where credit is due. The amazing part for me is I actually remembered something remotely correct.

Bill

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post #43 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark1 View Post

Sorry, I flipped instead of rotated! These are the best pictures I could find online of the insides. Let me try again:

DMark,

Nice job finding those pictures and then correcting the Onkyo. Here I am thinking they were different. Poor DS was probably thrown for a loop and was trying to do his "Mod" work with a mirror. I wonder if he has figured out the 5508 is not truly balanced or that there is no THX Pro.

Bill

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post #44 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mystic_sniper28 View Post

Bill I would say firmware will likely be different for a start, as for what else is different it would be hard to say, as I don't own both unit to compare them to each other though I suspect the integra will likely more user options given the target audience it is looking at..

ms,

No offense but if you do not own either or have any factual information why do you post that the Integra will have more user options? This is the second post where you allude to that but still have no idea if it is fact or fiction. What target audience is Integra after that Onkyo is not?

Bill

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post #45 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post


ms,

No offense but if you do not own either or have any factual information why do you post that the Integra will have more user options? This is the second post where you allude to that but still have no idea if it is fact or fiction. What target audience is Integra after that Onkyo is not?

Bill

I own an Integra receiver that is almost the same as its Onkyo "twin" (2004 model). Mine has a few features lacking in the Onkyo--A/D of the analogue MCH input being the most prominent Thus it is possible some minor differences persist in today's models.
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post #46 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by par4 View Post

What did Dave say when you called him up and asked him about it?

PM'd him. Didn't call. I'd rather have him provide a public explanation of his claims.

Jeff
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post #47 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

ms,

No offense but if you do not own either or have any factual information why do you post that the Integra will have more user options? This is the second post where you allude to that but still have no idea if it is fact or fiction. What target audience is Integra after that Onkyo is not?

Bill

Bill, I have seen a post or two from people with Integra's custom installer software and they commented that they could customize the user menus. A parallel would be PC motherboard BIOS where one manufacturer allows more tweaking of clock speeds and memory timings while the next one does not.

They are both after the same endusers, but do it through different channels. alanl715 summed it up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanl715 View Post

JohnLA...I agree with your comment. Keep in mind that OnkyoPro, Onkyo, and Integra are all different product lines subject to a different dealer agreement and sales / support sites.
Usually the Integra and Onkyo products are 'repped' by the same independent rep firm and OnkyoPro is 'repped' by musical instrument/pro audio oriented rep firms.

Jeff
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post #48 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Bill, I have seen a post or two from people with Integra's custom installer software and they commented that they could customize the user menus.

Jeff,

Would that include added features or just a customized menu? Would the customized menu mean different graphics and location of specific menu items? Maybe Alan can add his thoughts to this topic.

Bill

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post #49 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Jeff,

Would that include added features or just a customized menu? Would the customized menu mean different graphics and location of specific menu items? Maybe Alan can add his thoughts to this topic.

Bill

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post20480176

Jeff
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post #50 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 08:48 AM
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post #51 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 09:55 AM
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I have no experience with the Onkyo products mentioned here, but I have had a number of components modified by The Upgrade Company, including the EMM CDSD se and DAC 6e, a Bel Canto Pre2, and a Bryston 14B SST. I also beta tested Schulte's Time Portal power cords on my digital front end. Whatever he is doing, the results were spectacular. In the case of the EMM pair, I had a second, stock pair with which to compare, so it was easy to tell. TUC's power cords are a bargain for the money and beat all my upscale cords in the collection.
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post #52 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 10:05 AM
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I have no experience with the Onkyo products mentioned here, but I have had a number of components modified by The Upgrade Company, including the EMM CDSD se and DAC 6e, a Bel Canto Pre2, and a Bryston 14B SST. I also beta tested Schulte's Time Portal power cords on my digital front end. Whatever he is doing, the results were spectacular. In the case of the EMM pair, I had a second, stock pair with which to compare, so it was easy to tell. TUC's power cords are a bargain for the money and beat all my upscale cords in the collection.

I saw many first time posters as the above raving about TUC in a long since locked earlier TUC thread. It makes one wonder why someone would all the sudden join AVS to post the above.

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post #53 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

PM'd him. Didn't call. I'd rather have him provide a public explanation of his claims.

Jeff

Did he answer the PM?
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post #54 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I saw many first time posters as the above raving about TUC in a long since locked earlier TUC thread. It makes one wonder why someone would all the sudden join AVS to post the above.

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post #55 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by par4 View Post

Did he answer the PM?

Of course not. We are but a few people on one forum. If he even knows about this thread, his best bet is to ignore us. Trying to get people to question what their money is buying from places like this is like trying to talk to Moonies.

Jeff
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post #56 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preale View Post

I have no experience with the Onkyo products mentioned here, but I have had a number of components modified by The Upgrade Company, including the EMM CDSD se and DAC 6e, a Bel Canto Pre2, and a Bryston 14B SST. I also beta tested Schulte's Time Portal power cords on my digital front end. Whatever he is doing, the results were spectacular. In the case of the EMM pair, I had a second, stock pair with which to compare, so it was easy to tell. TUC's power cords are a bargain for the money and beat all my upscale cords in the collection.

Wow, first post. Welcome to the AVS Forum. You know, don't you, that you have zero credibility?

Jeff
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post #57 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 10:51 AM
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I really dislike these discussions.

However, I do want to mention that I compared the performance of my then upgraded Onkyo PR-SC885 Pre/Pro with a stock unit in May of 2009. As to the sound, there is no question that the 2 units did sound quite different. The upgraded Onkyo 885 trumped the stock unit in all areas including being more open sounding with better more controlled bass, better imaging, better soundstage, clarity, dynamics (both micro and macro), and much more natural and relaxed performance.

Additionally, I have compared the early upgrade of this unit versus some very expensive Preamps and thought that upgraded Onkyo sounded superior.

Since my comparisons in 2009 my Onkyo PR-SC885 Pre/Pro has gone through many additional upgrades to the unit so that it's performance far exceeds what I heard in 2009.

I have also noted improved audio and I also believe improved video performance of my upgraded NuForce Edition Oppo 83SE Blu-ray player particularly after the latest installation of the Upgrade Company's proprietary shielding.

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post #58 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Of course not. We are but a few people on one forum. If he even knows about this thread, his best bet is to ignore us. Trying to get people to question what their money is buying from places like this is like trying to talk to Moonies.

Jeff

Then why start the thread?
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post #59 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Wow, first post. Welcome to the AVS Forum. You know, don't you, that you have zero credibility?

Jeff

In many of these sort of threads, its always a "New member" that seldom posts that will come out and declare great improvements. Its pretty funny actually, a member that has really done some proper testing, has many components never posts these highly subjective conclusions. I just amazing how they come out of the woodwork

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post #60 of 1596 Old 05-24-2011, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

In many of these sort of threads, its always a "New member" that seldom posts that will come out and declare great improvements. Its pretty funny actually, a member that has really done some proper testing, has many components never posts these highly subjective conclusions. I just amazing how they come out of the woodwork

It's just as true (or perhaps more so) that one can better judge the bias of someone who has been around for a long time. It becomes very easy to bypass post after post... if they post the same thing more than twice I tend to ignore them.
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