9.2 receiver for 11 speakers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 05-26-2011, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Would like to hear receiver recommendations for a dedicated theater room.

Have wired for the following setup as going back of room, which has 3 rows of seating:
5 front speakers - Left High, Left Main, Center, Right Main, Right High
2 surround speakers - 1st row
2 surround speakers - 2nd row
2 back surround speakers on back wall - behind 3rd row

I was thinking of splitting a surround channel for 2 speakers on each side of the row. (i.e. - 1 Left Channel Surround > 2 Left Surrounds). Plan on using some in-walls. Maybe issue with ohms/power. Not sure yet.

Considering Onkyo NR3008/5008 (or even NR1008), Denon AVR-4311CI, & Marantz SR7005. Open to any other lower/older models that would provide equal bang for the buck.

EDIT/UPDATE:
Thinking of going with this configuration using Emotiva speakers...

L/C/R - Total of 3 of the Emotiva 6.2 bookshelf speakers (http://emotiva.com/erm62.shtm). Also considering replacing the center bookshelf with an ERM 6.3 (http://emotiva.com/erm63.shtm)...Overkill?

Front pair for heights, 1st row pair of surrounds, 2nd row pair of surrounds, rear pair surrounds - Total of 8 of the Emotiva UAW 6.2 in-wall speakers (http://emotiva.com/uaw62.shtm)

Subs - 2 of the Ultra Sub 12" (http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub12.shtm)

With the above info, perhaps someone can recommend a receiver now (maybe an inexpensive receiver w/preouts to share duties with an external Emotiva amp?).

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post #2 of 22 Old 05-26-2011, 10:19 PM
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I seem to recall some people not liking the idea of putting in multiple side surrounds in a home install. You might want to ask around, first, if that makes sense.

Two 4 ohm speakers might work quite well. If it's two 8 ohm speakers, hopefully you can get away with a 4 ohm load in that case.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #3 of 22 Old 05-26-2011, 10:45 PM
 
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Since we don't know how big this room is...

Also, to "properly do" what you are proposing....
http://www.amazon.com/Speaker-Select...6471448&sr=1-2 (this one is for 4 pairs...I'm sure somebody makes a 2 pair impedance matching...and yes, you want impedance matching)
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post #4 of 22 Old 05-27-2011, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I seem to recall some people not liking the idea of putting in multiple side surrounds in a home install. You might want to ask around, first, if that makes sense.

Two 4 ohm speakers might work quite well. If it's two 8 ohm speakers, hopefully you can get away with a 4 ohm load in that case.

Yes, I've read the same thing about using 4 ohm speakers for this type of setup. Any idea why they didn't like the setup? Ruins the effect?

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post #5 of 22 Old 05-27-2011, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post

Since we don't know how big this room is...

Also, to "properly do" what you are proposing....
http://www.amazon.com/Speaker-Select...6471448&sr=1-2 (this one is for 4 pairs...I'm sure somebody makes a 2 pair impedance matching...and yes, you want impedance matching)

The room is about 13 ft wide and 29 ft long.

Thank you for the link! I'll look into it for sure.

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post #6 of 22 Old 05-27-2011, 04:10 PM
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I have a 13' wide by 23' long room and have a similar setup as you described. I researched this issue extensively when setting up the room, and while some really advise against it, I like the setup. I have the same splitter shown at the link provided to power two side surrounds off one channel (for two rows of seating) and with 8 ohm speakers. I am only using a Denon 791, so I don't have enormous amounts of power, but I have never had any issues with it. It bothered me that with two rows of seats, each row did not have a side surround and I attempted this setup. I would set it up this way again, if I had a choice.
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post #7 of 22 Old 05-27-2011, 07:10 PM
 
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So...to do this for both sides of the room, you would need a two input device, such as this:

http://www.amazon.com/OSD-Audio-DSM4...6545230&sr=1-1


AFAIK, you would run the ride side rear output from your AVR to A and the left side rear to B. Wire the two right side rear speakers to 1 and 2, and the two left side rear speakers to 3 and 4. Then select source A for speakers 1 and 2, and souce B for speakers 3 and 4. Enable the speakers and turn on protection circuit switch on the back.
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post #8 of 22 Old 05-27-2011, 08:54 PM
 
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That speaker switch...

2 speakers means TWO PAIRS of speakers...

Pair A
Pair B

In addition
Pair C
Pair D
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post #9 of 22 Old 05-28-2011, 02:40 PM
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Or for about the same money get a used integrated amp or receiver and to drive the 2nd pair.

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post #10 of 22 Old 05-28-2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

Would like to hear receiver recommendations for a dedicated theater room.

Have wired for the following setup as going back of room, which has 3 rows of seating:
5 front speakers - Left High, Left Main, Center, Right Main, Right High
2 surround speakers - 1st row
2 surround speakers - 2nd row
2 back surround speakers on back wall - behind 3rd row

I was thinking of splitting a surround channel for 2 speakers on each side of the row. (i.e. - 1 Left Channel Surround > 2 Left Surrounds). Plan on using some in-walls. Maybe issue with ohms/power. Not sure yet.

Considering Onkyo NR3008/5008, Denon AVR-4311CI, & Marantz SR7005. Open to any other lower models that would provide equal bang for the buck.

Yes you may have issues with power depending on how efficient your speakers are and what their impedance is. Receivers and a pair of 4 ohm speakers wired in parallel could present a very nasty load to your amp. 8 ohm would be more desirable. With that size room and all those speakers be sure your receiver is well ventilated, it will be throwing some heat.

Also are you including subwoofers in this HT?

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post #11 of 22 Old 05-28-2011, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

Yes you may have issues with power depending on how efficient your speakers are and what their impedance is. Receivers and a pair of 4 ohm speakers wired in parallel could present a very nasty load to your amp. 8 ohm would be more desirable. With that size room and all those speakers be sure your receiver is well ventilated, it will be throwing some heat.

Also are you including subwoofers in this HT?

I agree about the ohm difference causing issues, hence I'm going to have to try one of the suggested units above. So far it looks like it will take care of balancing out any issues there.

I plan on starting with a 12" sub, possibly adding a second 12" if one is not enough (considering Aperion & Emotiva for now).

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post #12 of 22 Old 05-28-2011, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Update: I've been reading up on the Onkyo 5008 and the reliability issues. Does anyone know if recent units have had better QA?

Also, can the Yamaha RX-A3000 actually be expanded as a 9.2, or even for my 11 speaker setup?

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post #13 of 22 Old 05-28-2011, 05:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post

That speaker switch...

2 speakers means TWO PAIRS of speakers...

Pair A
Pair B

In addition
Pair C
Pair D

Ah, I see...I zoomed in further on the backs of the devices and saw that each input was actually both a right and a left speaker. So there is only a need for 1 input, and then 2 outputs. You would put both output zones onto the one input and then wire the right from zone 1 and the right from zone 2 to the right side of the theater, then repeat with the left zones.
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post #14 of 22 Old 05-28-2011, 08:22 PM
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if doing two side surrounds on each side I would just look at front facing speakers and not dipole surrounds here, which should lessen any risk of cancellation effects. dipoles are supposed to simulate the effect you get in a theater where they have multiple side surrounds.

With regards to the receiver, personally I would go with a mid model receiver and solid amplifier ala either a professional grade Crown or something like an Emotiva. I am really partial to professional grade amps though. Minimally I would power the front speakers from the amp. You'll get better sound from a combination like this then you ever will from just a receiver and much less risk of killing anything.

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post #15 of 22 Old 05-29-2011, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usabrian View Post
if doing two side surrounds on each side I would just look at front facing speakers and not dipole surrounds here, which should lessen any risk of cancellation effects. dipoles are supposed to simulate the effect you get in a theater where they have multiple side surrounds.

With regards to the receiver, personally I would go with a mid model receiver and solid amplifier ala either a professional grade Crown or something like an Emotiva. I am really partial to professional grade amps though. Minimally I would power the front speakers from the amp. You'll get better sound from a combination like this then you ever will from just a receiver and much less risk of killing anything.
Def not doing dipoles in this space. Since this is a theater on a non-audiophile budget (for the BIL), I planned on trying out 8" in-wall speakers from Monoprice. I know...sounds unusual. But reviews seem good, so I thought it would serve the purpose for surrounds on the sides and back. For main fronts, may try some towers & sub from Aperion or Emotiva.

I also was considering Emotiva for an amp, but only if I could find a good budget network AV with preouts. Any suggestions? Otherwise was going for more powerful standalone AV to drive everything as it seems the ones mentioned in my OP seem to be able to perform adequately.

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post #16 of 22 Old 05-29-2011, 09:41 AM
 
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The Onkyo 1/3/5008 have been having the same issues as the lower ones. Onkyo is not immune to making the occasional "bad lot" of receiver. Denon has had issues with the 891/991 spontaneously self imploding.

That is why AVR come with 2-3 year warranties. The typical AVR problem comes up within the first 6-9 months. Once an AVR makes it to the year mark...it is just a matter of time before the power supply craps out(like it is with TV/DVD/BD and everything else)
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post #17 of 22 Old 05-29-2011, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post

The Onkyo 1/3/5008 have been having the same issues as the lower ones. Onkyo is not immune to making the occasional "bad lot" of receiver. Denon has had issues with the 891/991 spontaneously self imploding.

That is why AVR come with 2-3 year warranties. The typical AVR problem comes up within the first 6-9 months. Once an AVR makes it to the year mark...it is just a matter of time before the power supply craps out(like it is with TV/DVD/BD and everything else)

I feel ancient for saying this, but they don't build them like they used to I guess. I bought an Onkyo receiver with some Cerwin Vega speakers in 1994. Both are still going strong and have had zero issues all these years...knock on wood.

And typically, we do tend to hear more complaints on the forums as people speak up only when they do have issues. One can only hope no issues occur with any manufacturer. Crossing fingers.

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post #18 of 22 Old 05-29-2011, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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EDIT/UPDATE:
Thinking of going with this configuration using Emotiva speakers...

L/C/R - Total of 3 of the Emotiva 6.2 bookshelf speakers (http://emotiva.com/erm62.shtm). Also considering replacing the center bookshelf with an ERM 6.3 (http://emotiva.com/erm63.shtm)...Overkill?

Front pair for heights, 1st row pair of surrounds, 2nd row pair of surrounds, rear pair surrounds - Total of 8 of the Emotiva UAW 6.2 in-wall speakers (http://emotiva.com/uaw62.shtm)

Subs - 2 of the Ultra Sub 12" (http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub12.shtm)

With the above info, perhaps someone can recommend a receiver now (maybe an inexpensive receiver w/preouts to share duties with an external Emotiva amp?).

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post #19 of 22 Old 05-29-2011, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

Perhaps someone can recommend a receiver now (maybe an inexpensive receiver w/preouts to share duties with an external Emotiva amp?).

The yamaha rx-v867 has 7.2 preamp out and pretty much every other rear connection except usb and s-video in a reliable chassis for $450.
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post #20 of 22 Old 05-29-2011, 04:15 PM
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The Pioneers, Denons and Yamahas will do nicely. Harmon too. It's really just which brand you prefer tbh. None of these are heads and shoulders above the others. Just figure out which has the features you want, inputs, outputs, etc. For instance to get networking and advanced MCACC you need the Pioneer 1021-k at a price point of about $550. I think most of the new model receivers are going with networking in the mid price points. The new Denon 2112 and 2312 will.

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post #21 of 22 Old 05-29-2011, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkenit2 View Post

The yamaha rx-v867 has 7.2 preamp out and pretty much every other rear connection except usb and s-video in a reliable chassis for $450.

Looks good, but I'd like the receiver to be a minimum of 9.2. Thanks for the recommendation though. I'll keep it on my list if we step back to a 7.2 setup.

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post #22 of 22 Old 05-29-2011, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usabrian View Post

The Pioneers, Denons and Yamahas will do nicely. Harmon too. It's really just which brand you prefer tbh. None of these are heads and shoulders above the others. Just figure out which has the features you want, inputs, outputs, etc. For instance to get networking and advanced MCACC you need the Pioneer 1021-k at a price point of about $550. I think most of the new 2012 line receivers are going with networking in the mid price points. The new Denon 2112 and 2312 will.

I completely agree with you...All of those brands will do great. From what I've seen, Onkyo, Yamaha, & Denon seem to have most of what I believe will fulfill the req'ts, but each just has a huge list of receivers to choose from. Since looking for 9.2, that list obviously cuts down a lot.

For the features, here is what is important:
-Network capable (almost everything is now)
-Preouts
-9.2
-Ample power to possibly drive all of the mentioned speakers w/out needing an external amp, if possible.
-Audyssey/or any equally good room calibration onboard system

I'm thinking if I can find a less expensive receiver less than the $800 mark, it will free up some cash to supplement a 3-channel or 5-channel amp from Emotiva to really get some great performance from this setup. If I can find a receiver that can power a whole 9.2 with the above speakers, then the cost benefits could swing that way as well.

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