The "OFFICIAL" Onkyo RC270, NR708,NR808, NR1008, NR5008, Integra 80.2 Failure Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1701 Old 06-27-2011, 02:44 PM
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BTW, I am not sending it in until I have reasonable evidence to assume that it will come back properly fixed. I have owned Onkyo since their early por-logic days and hope they resolve this.
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post #272 of 1701 Old 06-27-2011, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
And this is why Onkyo will never get my business again. People are saying "they stepped up." They only stepped up after this thread was started, a facebook post was run, and customers called repeatedly to complain. Why didn't they just fix it from the beginning?
It's possible that the ribbon cable connector - which they likely got from a third party supplier - or the gel - which they likely got from a third party supplier - or the mixture of the two only started to develop symptoms of the hyper conductivity in certain setups in the field.

I have an Integra DTR50.2 that has not had any issues to-date. It might tomorrow, but it seems some have worked without problem.

Onkyo has done two things that are pretty significant in these modern days of low cost, high volume market: 1. acknowledge the problem; and 2. offer to pay for repair of it out of warranty.

In my opinion, they are doing the right thing. I am far from a fanboy and would have been very critical if they had not acknowledged it once the numbers got real.

My source who is an authorized repair center claims that the proponderance of this issue is still a lot lower than people think. He reckons 15 to 25% based upon usual service loads.
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post #273 of 1701 Old 06-27-2011, 03:44 PM
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Just received my 708 back from repair (for the second time). Here is what they did this time:

REPLACED IDE CONNECTORS ON MICROPROCESSOR & DISPLAY BOARDS & AMP IDE CABLE ON MICROPROCESSOR BOARD PER S/B# 11060701 TO RESTORE PROPER OPERATION.

Completed 06/21/2011

Have not yet got mine set up and going to verify operation, I'm more optimistic about it this time than I am last time when all they did was replace the IR receiver.
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post #274 of 1701 Old 06-27-2011, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Gross negligence? Are you sure you're not really an American ambulance chaser like John Edwards?

I too say negligence is pretty strong. I am sure once Onkyo confirmed it was a problem and affected the current product line they took action. It takes large companies time to set actions in to motion (and that's after they sit down and plan what to do which takes time in itself). Am I happy I have to send mine out for service? HELL NO!! I would really like a new replacement being 66 days in, but fat chance that will happen. So off she goes.

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post #275 of 1701 Old 06-27-2011, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvmccoy View Post

Update: My 708 returned from the repair center over a week ago and although the technician was unable to reproduce the problem I had reported (IR not responding), he did replace the 2 IDE connectors and the IDE cable. So far the unit is working fine. But apparently I called Onkyo about my problem before they started offering shipping labels/boxes. When I asked why I was responsible for the shipping cost to send the unit in for repairs under warranty, I was told it was company policy and then was hung up on .

I have to pay for mine to be shipped too. I guess what we don't think about is when we take something back to the local stores for warranty repair or replacement, they don't pay us for the gas it takes to get there. Same for shipping something like this back unfortunately but I agree with your point. I have a warranty repair shop 4 miles from my house and will not use it. They butchered a friend of mine Denon (warranty repairs) so bad that Denon finally sent him a new receiver. It took almost 4 months before his situation was resolved. Screws were loose, a channel no longer worked; it was pretty bad. So I will pay for it to go to Onkyo's region service center in NJ. Hmmmm... maybe if I use the local center they will butcher mine and I can get the 5509. If Onkyo is smart and use the same parts to assemble to 5509, they will hold the release date, go back and replace the defective parts to avoid the same failure. Wishful thinking and I am not willing to take that chance.

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post #276 of 1701 Old 06-27-2011, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Wow, just wow. Do you think they knew there was a problem and decided to wait to see if anyone noticed? That is sort of what you are implying.

Jeff

And that's what it looks like. The complains have been going on for quite a while before they admit that its their fault.
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post #277 of 1701 Old 06-27-2011, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Burns View Post

And that's what it looks like. The complains have been going on for quite a while before they admit that its their fault.

Or they were gathering data and investigating the problem and made their statement only after they knew what was wrong and had put in place a program to fix it.

Jeff
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post #278 of 1701 Old 06-28-2011, 10:54 AM
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I really don't hold a grudge against Onkyo and do realize that manufacturing problems do happen and they are handling it--maybe not as well as some would like--but that is subjective. For me, I decided when I first had the problem back in April to try another receiver and worry about my 808 later. I opted for a Marantz 6005 and really love it. After I had used the 6005 for a month or so I decided to figure out what to do about the Onkyo. Luckily I bought it from Cruchfield--an outstanding company with great customer service. When I called them earlier this month they shipped me the 809 to replace the defective 808 even though I bought the 808 in January. I liked the 809 just fine but I decided I didn't really need or want two new receivers so I opted to return the 809 to Cruchfield and received a full refund. So for me, that is the end of the Onkyo story--for now.

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post #279 of 1701 Old 06-28-2011, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osirus23 View Post

Just received my 708 back from repair (for the second time). Here is what they did this time:

REPLACED IDE CONNECTORS ON MICROPROCESSOR & DISPLAY BOARDS & AMP IDE CABLE ON MICROPROCESSOR BOARD PER S/B# 11060701 TO RESTORE PROPER OPERATION.

Completed 06/21/2011

Have not yet got mine set up and going to verify operation, I'm more optimistic about it this time than I am last time when all they did was replace the IR receiver.

You should be. It sounds like there is an official service bulletin regarding this failure. For those complaining on how long it took for Onkyo to issue a statement... you don't understand how continuation engineering/servicing works. Onkyo needed time to fully understand the root of the problem. Those that had their units fixed earlier did NOT have the ROOT CAUSE fixed because Onkyo and the service centers did NOT have enough data. It sounds like this is an uncommon problem (high acidity in the cable) so it took longer to find the ROOT CAUSE. Resoldering just masked the failure symptom for a period of time.

As some have said, Onkyo does not make all their parts. They either didn't properly spec out the material quality for the ribbon cable or most likely there was a QC control problem where the cable was manufactured.

Onkyo is standing behind it so I am not going to worry about it. If my 3008 develops this issue then I will just have it fixed.

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post #280 of 1701 Old 06-28-2011, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

Onkyo is standing behind it so I am not going to worry about it. If my 3008 develops this issue then I will just have it fixed.

Well, Onkyo took about 1 week to respond to my e-mail questions, though they did not specifically say it is x, y, or z. They just said it sounds like the unit needs serviced and to ship it to them? They offered a return label and box. I haven't responded yet because I hate to go without my a/v reciever - though I'd guess their offer will stand, even if I wait a bit.

---------------------------------------
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post #281 of 1701 Old 06-28-2011, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by spiritfox View Post

I really don't hold a grudge against Onkyo and do realize that manufacturing problems do happen and they are handling it--maybe not as well as some would like--but that is subjective. For me, I decided when I first had the problem back in April to try another receiver and worry about my 808 later. I opted for a Marantz 6005 and really love it. After I had used the 6005 for a month or so I decided to figure out what to do about the Onkyo. Luckily I bought it from Cruchfield--an outstanding company with great customer service. When I called them earlier this month they shipped me the 809 to replace the defective 808 even though I bought the 808 in January. I liked the 809 just fine but I decided I didn't really need or want two new receivers so I opted to return the 809 to Cruchfield and received a full refund. So for me, that is the end of the Onkyo story--for now.

A very WISE choice...
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post #282 of 1701 Old 06-28-2011, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

You should be. It sounds like there is an official service bulletin regarding this failure. For those complaining on how long it took for Onkyo to issue a statement... you don't understand how continuation engineering/servicing works. Onkyo needed time to fully understand the root of the problem. Those that had their units fixed earlier did NOT have the ROOT CAUSE fixed because Onkyo and the service centers did NOT have enough data. It sounds like this is an uncommon problem (high acidity in the cable) so it took longer to find the ROOT CAUSE. Resoldering just masked the failure symptom for a period of time.

As some have said, Onkyo does not make all their parts. They either didn't properly spec out the material quality for the ribbon cable or most likely there was a QC control problem where the cable was manufactured.

Onkyo is standing behind it so I am not going to worry about it. If my 3008 develops this issue then I will just have it fixed.

Are you an Onkyo SALESMAN?
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post #283 of 1701 Old 06-28-2011, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Burns View Post

Are you an Onkyo SALESMAN?

He is stating the obvious. I still can't believe how mordant the tone is of some folks about this. Onkyo has acknowledged the issue, is offering to pay shipping for it to be repaired for some, and offering to make repairs out of warranty. That's a pretty grown up response frankly.
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post #284 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by RobZ View Post

BTW, I am not sending it in until I have reasonable evidence to assume that it will come back properly fixed. I have owned Onkyo since their early por-logic days and hope they resolve this.

Rob...this is really a good fix. We have repaired 2 under warranty and both have held up without any occurrence of the same symptom for over 17 days.
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post #285 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post

And this is why Onkyo will never get my business again. People are saying "they stepped up." They only stepped up after this thread was started, a facebook post was run, and customers called repeatedly to complain. Why didn't they just fix it from the beginning?

Mebbe they didn't know there was a problem. Do you really - honestly - want us to believe that Onkyo KNOWINGLY produced this unit with a problem ? Kind of like Toyota and the sticking gas pedal...they did it on purpose just for funsies to see if anyone would notice ?
Some of these Onkyo owners comments are embarrassing !
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post #286 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 04:16 AM
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While I don't agree with Mr. Burns's antagonistic attitude or the statement that Onkyo is guilty of gross negligence, I also don't agree with the statement that "Onkyo has a good fix" nor do I think Onkyo has stepped up completely and taken full responsibility for the defect. How is it possible that my unit was repaired with the same 'fix' as Osirus23's unit and my unit failed 5 days after being serviced.

This statement is erronous...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

... Those that had their units fixed earlier did NOT have the ROOT CAUSE fixed because Onkyo and the service centers did NOT have enough data...

...because:

Osirus23's 'repair' was the same 'repair' I had done on 5/11/11 by a listed Onkyo Regional Service center. At that time, there had been a Service Bulletin advising the service center to change the 2 connectors and the IDE cable. 5 days after receiving my unit back from the repair center, my unit displayed the same symptoms it went in for in the first place (see post #11 in this thread). On 6/21/11, Onkyo issued a press release basically telling us nothing about what caused the symptoms, except that they will fix the problem. Upon emailing my repair center on 6/24/11 about a possible new fix, the response I received was that Onkyo wants them to change the connectors and the cable on my unit...AGAIN. I don't see any change in Onkyo's 'fix' between the time I had my unit serviced and 6/21.
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post #287 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by alanl715 View Post

Rob...this is really a good fix. We have repaired 2 under warranty and both have held up without any occurrence of the same symptom for over 17 days.

It took 5 months on average for the symptoms to show up on most people's units, my unit failed 5 days after the current 'fix'. By the way, my service center also performed an in house trial run of the unit after the 'repair' to 'check for any intermittent problems that may come up' before they allowed me to pick up the unit. All this well before the 6/21 press release. The fix is suspect.
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post #288 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanl715 View Post

Mebbe they didn't know there was a problem. Do you really - honestly - want us to believe that Onkyo KNOWINGLY produced this unit with a problem ? Kind of like Toyota and the sticking gas pedal...they did it on purpose just for funsies to see if anyone would notice ?
Some of these Onkyo owners comments are embarrassing !

As far as embarrassing comments are concerned, the speculation that has been going on as to the cause of the symptoms as well as the general acceptance of that speculation as fact by some in this thread is a little on the embarrassing side and frankly nothing but a rumor mill.

Not once did Onkyo publicly declare the cause of the problem. Only in this thread was it invented that the cause was acid or gel. To continue to say anything of the sort is speculation. To claim that Onkyo has a good fix is also speculation, as it has been shown to not work...on my unit as well as on others. To commend Onkyo for handling the situation responsibly is itself irresponsible and ignorant. The press release could be interpreted as such:

"Onkyo will continue to replace the ribbon cable and connectors as long as your unit fails. If your unit fails again, after we replace the ribbon cable and connectors, even if out of warranty, Onkyo will replace the ribbon cable and connectors again." Ad infinitum.

So go ahead, commend Onkyo, make up stories about acid and gel. Sit back and enjoy your receiver, 'cause if it breaks, even if out of warranty, Onkyo will 'fix' it.

Owning one of these units feels like owning a time bomb.

Now, who feels better about Onkyo?
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post #289 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 07:13 AM
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Oh...Puhleeze !
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post #290 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 08:38 AM
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What is the difference between the two service bulletin numbers on the last two pages of this thread? On the last page someone mentioned his ticket said 11041501, while this page references 11060701.

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post #291 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Braunbear View Post

As far as embarrassing comments are concerned, the speculation that has been going on as to the cause of the symptoms as well as the general acceptance of that speculation as fact by some in this thread is a little on the embarrassing side and frankly nothing but a rumor mill.

Not once did Onkyo publicly declare the cause of the problem.

Afraid constructive discussion on this issue has melted into illogical criticism of Onkyo.

Firstly, Onkyo very publicly announced the issue, the fix, and the offer to repair outside of warranty. It is linked from their homepage and here directly:

http://onkyousa.com/press_releases.cfm?id=215

Automatic Continuous Change of Listening Modes and/or Remote Controller Commands are not accepted
06/21/11 - Models: TX-NR708, TX-NR709, TX-NR808, TX-NR1008, TX-NR3008, TX-NR5008, PR-SC5508, HT-RC270, HT-RC370

If your receiver of the above mentioned models experiences the following : Listening modes automatically change one after another. When this problem occurs most commands will not be accepted.

Please contact our Product Support Department at (800) 229-1687, option 3, to confirm that this issue exists in your receiver. If the issue exists you will be given further direction on how to have it serviced.

***This issue will be handled for you even if you are out of warranty (this only applies to US and Canada).***
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post #292 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunbear View Post

As far as embarrassing comments are concerned, the speculation that has been going on as to the cause of the symptoms as well as the general acceptance of that speculation as fact by some in this thread is a little on the embarrassing side and frankly nothing but a rumor mill.

Not once did Onkyo publicly declare the cause of the problem. Only in this thread was it invented that the cause was acid or gel. To continue to say anything of the sort is speculation. To claim that Onkyo has a good fix is also speculation, as it has been shown to not work...on my unit as well as on others. To commend Onkyo for handling the situation responsibly is itself irresponsible and ignorant. The press release could be interpreted as such:

"Onkyo will continue to replace the ribbon cable and connectors as long as your unit fails. If your unit fails again, after we replace the ribbon cable and connectors, even if out of warranty, Onkyo will replace the ribbon cable and connectors again." Ad infinitum.

So go ahead, commend Onkyo, make up stories about acid and gel. Sit back and enjoy your receiver, 'cause if it breaks, even if out of warranty, Onkyo will 'fix' it.

Owning one of these units feels like owning a time bomb.

Now, who feels better about Onkyo?

Or did you consider the possibility the original repair was not completed properly the first time? Maybe the tech just swapped out the cable and did not replace the connector or maybe it was a poor soldering job? Look I am not letting Onkyo off the hook, but again at least they stepped up and admitted there was a problem. I think you are holding Onkyo to high a standard. There are many other CE companies out there that also don't admit issues until there is significant data to back it up. I don't understand what all the fuss is when Onkyo is fixing these units even out of warranty.

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post #293 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Nathan_R View Post

What is the difference between the two service bulletin numbers on the last two pages of this thread? On the last page someone mentioned his ticket said 11041501, while this page references 11060701.

Hi Nathan_R, possible bulletin number related with different model

11041501 - NR808
11060701 - NR708
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post #294 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 11:49 AM
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My sentiments exactly Toknowshita-san !!!
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post #295 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Osirus23 View Post

Just received my 708 back from repair (for the second time). Here is what they did this time:

REPLACED IDE CONNECTORS ON MICROPROCESSOR & DISPLAY BOARDS & AMP IDE CABLE ON MICROPROCESSOR BOARD PER S/B# 11060701 TO RESTORE PROPER OPERATION.

Completed 06/21/2011

Have not yet got mine set up and going to verify operation, I'm more optimistic about it this time than I am last time when all they did was replace the IR receiver.

....

Hi, I just start having the same problems as everyone with my 708; I have take the avr to a service center in Mexico, and it seems that the problem could be, the poor soldering job in the IDE connector in the front panel board as some others described. I just took a picture of it.

Next week I´m having back the avr, hopefully working again...

Regards...
Alex Cervantes
LL
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post #296 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Afraid constructive discussion on this issue has melted into illogical criticism of Onkyo.

Firstly, Onkyo very publicly announced the issue, the fix, and the offer to repair outside of warranty. It is linked from their homepage and here directly:

http://onkyousa.com/press_releases.cfm?id=215

Automatic Continuous Change of Listening Modes and/or Remote Controller Commands are not accepted
06/21/11 - Models: TX-NR708, TX-NR709, TX-NR808, TX-NR1008, TX-NR3008, TX-NR5008, PR-SC5508, HT-RC270, HT-RC370

If your receiver of the above mentioned models experiences the following : Listening modes automatically change one after another. When this problem occurs most commands will not be accepted.

Please contact our Product Support Department at (800) 229-1687, option 3, to confirm that this issue exists in your receiver. If the issue exists you will be given further direction on how to have it serviced.

***This issue will be handled for you even if you are out of warranty (this only applies to US and Canada).***

The press release only states "Listening modes automatically change one after another. When this problem occurs most commands will not be accepted." My unit did not exhibit this behavior. My unit would turn itself on, not respond to remote commands and was non-responsive to any buttons on the front panel including the power button. The only way to shut it off was to unplug the unit.

Now, if this press release is implying that this is a comprehensive fix, then that is fine with me. I very disappointed that my unit is requiring service so early in its life cycle especially with such limited use and I sincerely hope it is COMPLETELY fixed upon its return. I know some have received their units back to only have the problems return shortly thereafter. I hope they have really nailed down this problem and that this is not a trial an error process.

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post #297 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 08:23 PM
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Onkyo should be buried alive!!!
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post #298 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 08:51 PM
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Hello,
I am about to receive a TX-NR3008 as a replacement for my TX-NR3007 that had a HDMI Board Failure where the Video stopped working, but the Audio worked. The local Authorized Service Center (75 Miles away) Ordered 2 HDMI Boards and with both Video worked, but now HDMI Audio did not work with the exception of True HD and DTS-HD. What was frustrating was the first time they told me the AVR was fixed only to find out after spending an hour doing Audyssey and the rest of the Setup that HDMI Audio was not functional. Eventually, Onkyo had the AVR Shipped to Saddle Brook (HQ)

Well at least I now understand why Onkyo said the Technician had to make sure "the latest Firmware" needed to be updated before shipping out the Replacement 3008. One thing is for sure, I am going to add the $85 Dollar Onkyo Extended Warranty for this AVR.
Cheers,
AD

Radio Shack SPL Meter Owner
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post #299 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 09:20 PM
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Onkyo should be buried alive!!!

oooooohhhhhhh !
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post #300 of 1701 Old 06-29-2011, 09:40 PM
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Ya know guys...we are an authorized servicenter for over 20 major brands of audio and video products.
9 months ago we began servicing 'white goods' - appliances.
We have become use to the high early failure rate of all the new flat panel and dlp sets, but I am amazed at the failures we have encountered on appliances as well...usually the higher ticket front loader washer/dryers and the digital controlled side by side fridges, dishwashers, and energy controlled water heaters.

It is NOT only Onkyo products...but we see Yamaha as well as Pioneer as frequently.
I am sorry, but I do not understand some of you guys lamenting as though Onkyo was attempting to perpetuate these products with this known deficiency on the pre-pro/avr public. They are doing something about it after acknowledging the problem(s).

Stuff shouldn't break but it does. If 'we' break down occasionally, do we lament our creators - parents/the Almighty ? Nope, we go to the MD repair-people and hopefully they 'fix' us the first time around.

This is an electronic piece of equipment...calm down !
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