"Official" Onkyo TX-NR809 Thread - Page 104 - AVS Forum
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post #3091 of 6022 Old 01-29-2012, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by razrsharp View Post

So as promised here's my report back on my experience when "toggling" through the speaker setup. I was trying to find a way to have a 7.1 setup inside (zone 1) and 2.0 (zone 2) outside with all speakers connected at the same time.

It is possible, but not without some caveats. Yes, you can hook up all 9 speakers at once, and yes there are settings that allow the amp to power all of them (as either 7.1 or 5.1 + 2.0 only). The problem is, as stated in the manual, when you change the speaker settings to toggle Powered Zone 2 on/off you do lose your Audyssey setup, to some extent. Basically Audyssey is what's used to determine your initial speaker setup, so when you toggle Powered Zone 2 "on", and then turn it back off again, any of the settings that were set for the surround speakers are reset. It's like it doesn't know what your setup is anymore. It DOES keep the settings of any speakers that didn't change - Front L/R, Center and LFE. The surround speakers lose their Audyssey settings for availability (surround 2ch, 4ch) and crossover. Oddly enough distances are retained, but not speaker levels. In fact when you perform the speaker change toggle it looks as though ALL the speakers are connected again, as if it were in initial setup.

My personal opinion then, is that anyone who was looking for a 7.1 (z1) + 2.0 (z2) setup should look elsewhere if they only want one AVR to power everything. I think there are too many settings that have to be redone for the average user. I wish I had this info when shopping around for an AVR - but this info is rather scarce to come by...

Now luckily for myself, I did manage to salvage what I thought was an old broken RCA AVR to connect to my Zone 2, which is fine. I'm not saying that I'm unhappy with this AVR or that it is bad, I just think that it's a bit inappropriate for my needs and I may have been mislead by marketing materials - a lot of this stuff can be overwhelming when shopping around for an AVR. Hope this info helps someone else in the future...

What page in the manual does it state this ? Powered Zone 2 uses the rear surround amps......are those the speakers that lose their settings? I've been doing this with a SR-875 for years and not noticed anything significant....however my rears are evenly spaced and they don't do that much, so maybe I'm lucky and in my setup it doesn't effect things that much ??
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post #3092 of 6022 Old 01-29-2012, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post

So...long story, but basically I need to create a secondary connection for my PS3 when we want to use the Camera for the MOVE type games.

I have the PS3 mounted in my rack right below the 809, great for movies.

So...my options are this, please help me understand what is the way to go. On my front wall, I have a 60" plasma...the rack is approximately a 25' run. The plasma is connected to the HDMI Sub out on the 809 via 25' high speed hdmi. The idea is under the plasma, I will put a jack in the wall that will allow me to connect the PS3 to the audio/video and thus allowing the camera on te PS3 to be line of site:

OPTION 1: 25' hdmi run back to 809 and then of course follow the 25' from the 809 back to video on the plasma, audio of course on the system speakers.

OPTION 2: 3' hdmi plugged directly into plasma, input 2, then a 25' optical toslink from the ps3 back to the 809 for audio.

I am trying to minimize lag, etc...so not sure if TWO separate connections might be better or worse?

I guess I could test, but then I gotta invest in some cables that might not be used.

Any real world help is appreciated.

Just bumping to keep on the current page and hoping for some help
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post #3093 of 6022 Old 01-29-2012, 11:00 AM
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I just bought my 809 and I love it. I previously had a 501 which is now powering everything in my bedroom. Since almost everything I have is HDMI the Zone 2 analog outs on the back don't carry my signals from the 809 to the 501 (bluray, xbox... ect)

How can I carry audio from the main room into my bedroom without directly hooking up the speakers in to the 809?

Also, does the HDMI out only carry video? My TV had an optical out (Running to the 501) but it doesn't seem like the HDMI from the 809 carries any audio.

Help?
Advice?
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post #3094 of 6022 Old 01-29-2012, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie55 View Post

What page in the manual does it state this ? Powered Zone 2 uses the rear surround amps......are those the speakers that lose their settings? I've been doing this with a SR-875 for years and not noticed anything significant....however my rears are evenly spaced and they don't do that much, so maybe I'm lucky and in my setup it doesn't effect things that much ??

Pg 47, under speaker settings. What is your setup like? I'm using 7.1 with rear surrounds and *had Zone 2 plugged into the front wide terminals, as also stated in the manual.

Have you figured out some other way to get 7.1 + 2.0 at the same time?
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post #3095 of 6022 Old 01-29-2012, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malirk View Post

I just bought my 809 and I love it. I previously had a 501 which is now powering everything in my bedroom. Since almost everything I have is HDMI the Zone 2 analog outs on the back don't carry my signals from the 809 to the 501 (bluray, xbox... ect)

How can I carry audio from the main room into my bedroom without directly hooking up the speakers in to the 809?

Also, does the HDMI out only carry video? My TV had an optical out (Running to the 501) but it doesn't seem like the HDMI from the 809 carries any audio.

Help?
Advice?

HDMI is both audio and video....but of course the audio is really the audio in, i.e from blueray to 809. From the 809 speakers wires out to speakers of course, or a pre-amp out to another AVR then speaker wires, etc

I can't answer any more as I am not totally sure of what you are trying to do...if you could clarify perhaps inputs, outputs, etc..it might help.
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post #3096 of 6022 Old 01-29-2012, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malirk View Post

I just bought my 809 and I love it. I previously had a 501 which is now powering everything in my bedroom. Since almost everything I have is HDMI the Zone 2 analog outs on the back don't carry my signals from the 809 to the 501 (bluray, xbox... ect)

How can I carry audio from the main room into my bedroom without directly hooking up the speakers in to the 809?

Also, does the HDMI out only carry video? My TV had an optical out (Running to the 501) but it doesn't seem like the HDMI from the 809 carries any audio.

Help?
Advice?

You would need to connect all devices with an analog cable in order to pass the audio through the Zone 2 preouts. Also, you can pass HDMI audio out of the HDMI output by setting (p. 61) to ON.

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post #3097 of 6022 Old 01-29-2012, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

In some instances inserting an HDMI switch will trick the PC into seeing the PJ's EDID. Another solution includes using a PC EDID override procedure discussed further in post #3, Section 12 (j) HTPC Video/Audio Issues of the Denon XX12 Owner's thread linked in my sig.

Thanks ordered a 2x1 switch
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post #3098 of 6022 Old 01-29-2012, 06:16 PM
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Got a lemon this time, hooked up new 809 yesterday. After about 40 minutes, shut down and that was all she wrote!!! Will not power on. Going to get an RA tomorrow and have another shipped ASAP!! Having Superbowl party next Sunday. Had to put the 805 back into action for a few more days. Has anyone else had this happen?
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post #3099 of 6022 Old 01-29-2012, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
The mic should generally be placed at the foot of the couch cushion so you will likely have 1 leg on the couch itself. Note that the remaining 7 positions should be taken within 2'-3' radius from that first position and at least 2' forward of a back wall if the couch is placed against the wall.

I'm not following your comment to well. So don't put the mic on the couch where we actually sit ?
Place it at the edge of the couch where my knees are but on the floor with the tripod right against the couch at the height of 42-43 inches correct ?

Thanks
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post #3100 of 6022 Old 01-29-2012, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post


Just bumping to keep on the current page and hoping for some help

USB extension cable. Cheapest and easiest solution.
25 is at the max length of run for certified HDMI cables but with quality cables I'd go with option 1 if you refuse to go with the USB fix.
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post #3101 of 6022 Old 01-29-2012, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray77085 View Post


I'm not following your comment to well. So don't put the mic on the couch where we actually sit ?
Place it at the edge of the couch where my knees are but on the floor with the tripod right against the couch at the height of 42-43 inches correct ?

Thanks

Read the aud faq stickied here, most accurate and relevant info for you. But honestly put the mic exactly where your ears would normally be.
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post #3102 of 6022 Old 01-29-2012, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razrsharp View Post

Pg 47, under speaker settings. What is your setup like? I'm using 7.1 with rear surrounds and *had Zone 2 plugged into the front wide terminals, as also stated in the manual.

Have you figured out some other way to get 7.1 + 2.0 at the same time?

No, this receiver only has 7 amps in it. When you turn on Zone 2, the rear surrounds are not powered.......in effect you have 5.1 + 2.0. The only way I know of getting 7.1 + 2.0 is with using an external 2 channel amp.
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post #3103 of 6022 Old 01-29-2012, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by wingman1659 View Post

USB extension cable. Cheapest and easiest solution.
25 is at the max length of run for certified HDMI cables but with quality cables I'd go with option 1 if you refuse to go with the USB fix.

You can surprisingly go longer, but you will pay $$$ for one that provides no issues due to length. The longest HDMI runs I have done were up to 50ft. I had no issues to this day with that install. However I prefer using CAT5/6 extenders. There are some coax extenders out now that are very good and cost less.

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post #3104 of 6022 Old 01-29-2012, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by reggie55 View Post

No, this receiver only has 7 amps in it. When you turn on Zone 2, the rear surrounds are not powered.......in effect you have 5.1 + 2.0. The only way I know of getting 7.1 + 2.0 is with using an external 2 channel amp.

Ok, how do I set it up this way? The speaker setup has a setting for "powered zone 2-- ON/OFF" Do i have to go in and change this every time that I want to use a powered zone 2??? If I select ON, it disables 7.1 correct? I am using front highs, LCR, and surronds.

-Aaron
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post #3105 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mitoticfigure View Post


Ok, how do I set it up this way? The speaker setup has a setting for "powered zone 2-- ON/OFF" Do i have to go in and change this every time that I want to use a powered zone 2??? If I select ON, it disables 7.1 correct? I am using front highs, LCR, and surronds.

-Aaron

You cannot use 7.1 AND powered zone. Take your choice. Onkyo gave the choice of powered for those people (majority?) who have 5.1.

For 7.1 people, they gave you pre outs so you can still make use of all your components (cd, Net, Etc), in another room. You will just need an amplifier.
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post #3106 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray77085 View Post

I'm not following your comment to well. So don't put the mic on the couch where we actually sit ?
Place it at the edge of the couch where my knees are but on the floor with the tripod right against the couch at the height of 42-43 inches correct ?

Thanks

Sorry, for the confusion. Alot of folks have couches with high backs which would require the mic being moved forward to avoid reflections. If the couch is not against a back wall or the mic is situated higher than the back support of the couch, the 1st mic position would go where your head is at ear height as you have indicated, otherwise you'll want to move it forward to the edge of the seat. Regardless, the positions forward of the main listening position will be with tripod legs off the couch. However, note that using a boom mic stand situated behind the couch is more ideal as it takes the tripod legs out of the equation all together.

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post #3107 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 05:32 AM
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Curious, how many people utilize Dynamic volume? I've read most of this forum and it seems like I've read most people prefer DYNAMIC EQ ON, and VOL Off. I found that for my ears, I like BOTH on. I think having the Dynamic Vol on gives movies more depth / punch. I watched The Matrix last night for the 678th time and was playing with it on / off and I've come to the conclusion, "Me Likes It On."

Also, curious, what volume do people watch thier movies on? On my old Onkyo TX-DS555, I couldn't turn the volume knob up more than 1/4 of a turn. On my 809, I have to turn it up in the range of 55-60ish depending on the movie (but with dyn vol on, this is reduced by about 10 to the 45-40 range). In talking with a Crutchfield tech one time, I mentioned this and he said it's normal, that Onkyo just changed their volume levels years back. Just curious what others watch their movies on, BTW, this is with a blu ray player.

I spent A LOT of time calibrating my speakers / subwoofers this weekend, and had some MORE curiousitys. I used to run audyssey, then after that was done pull out the SPL meter and make sure they're set at 75 db each (usually they were close). This time, I ran Audyssey and the levels it put my speakers at were far lower than 75. My fronts Aud set at -5 & -6 and my center at -7 (this was about 4db off from 75 db w/ the sound meter). So, I adjusted levels to 75db. During the Matrix, I felt some scenes felt off some, so I put levels back to where audyssey had them (off the 75 db mark for each speaker) and it sounded better. Thnk I am going to leave them where Audyssey set them.

Do others here adjust their audyssey levels w/ an SPL, or do you just accept where Audyssey sets them at regardless of what an SPL meter set them at.
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post #3108 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCSchoch View Post

Also, curious, what volume do people watch thier movies on? On my old Onkyo TX-DS555, I couldn't turn the volume knob up more than 1/4 of a turn. On my 809, I have to turn it up in the range of 55-60ish depending on the movie (but with dyn vol on, this is reduced by about 10 to the 45-40 range). In talking with a Crutchfield tech one time, I mentioned this and he said it's normal, that Onkyo just changed their volume levels years back. Just curious what others watch their movies on, BTW, this is with a blu ray player.

After running Audyssey, reference volume is set to 0db (for Dyn EQ) which your older Onkyo did not do ... so it would be higher at the same levels on the older model.

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post #3109 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie55 View Post

No, this receiver only has 7 amps in it. When you turn on Zone 2, the rear surrounds are not powered.......in effect you have 5.1 + 2.0. The only way I know of getting 7.1 + 2.0 is with using an external 2 channel amp.

Yes I realize this, but it had been thought that I can "toggle" between going from 7.1 to 5.1 + 2.0 by changing the speaker settings. What I was reporting back is that the Audyssey settings are undone when you do this, for the surround speakers.

If Audyssey setup hadn't been responsible for assigning speaker posts and it was more manual as it used to be in older amps, what I've been trying to do was likely plausible.

Just trying to provide the full info to those who are looking for a similar setup, as info was scarce when I was looking.
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post #3110 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

You would need to connect all devices with an analog cable in order to pass the audio through the Zone 2 preouts. Also, you can pass HDMI audio out of the HDMI output by setting (p. 61) to ON.

This brings me to another question - previously when I had Zone 2 setup "powered" by the receiver iNet radio and iPod (USB) inputs worked for Zone 2. Now that I'm running a separate receiver to power Zone 2, are you saying these inputs will no longer work?
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post #3111 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 08:46 AM
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^^
Not at all .. they should work using either powered or preout connections.

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post #3112 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Not at all .. they should work using either powered or preout connections.

Phew, this had me worried, and I can't check as my outdoor speakers won't come out for a few months. Those are the only 2 relevant sources for me to even use in zone 2.

It's interesting that iNet radio and USB inputs are not defined as "digital" sources that won't work in zone 2/3. Surprisingly, they do.
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post #3113 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitoticfigure View Post

Ok, how do I set it up this way? The speaker setup has a setting for "powered zone 2-- ON/OFF" Do i have to go in and change this every time that I want to use a powered zone 2??? If I select ON, it disables 7.1 correct? I am using front highs, LCR, and surronds.

-Aaron

Selecting "powered Zone 2" to "ON" in speaker setup does not disable 7.1....it is not actually turning Zone 2 on. It just allows you the option to turn powered Zone 2 on and off with your remote. So when Zone 2 is "OFF", you have 7.1 and when you turn Zone 2 "ON" (with your remote), you have 5.1 (the rear surrounds are off). I just never realized that it effects my Audussey settings, although if it retains the distance settings, that's probably the most critical one in my setup.
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post #3114 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 09:23 AM
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^^
Keep in mind that the distance, crossover, and speaker level settings that the Onkyo sets are separate from the Audyssey filtering process which is why you can manually change those settings without affecting the Audyssey filters.

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post #3115 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCSchoch View Post

Curious, how many people utilize Dynamic volume? I've read most of this forum and it seems like I've read most people prefer DYNAMIC EQ ON, and VOL Off. I found that for my ears, I like BOTH on. I think having the Dynamic Vol on gives movies more depth / punch. I watched The Matrix last night for the 678th time and was playing with it on / off and I've come to the conclusion, "Me Likes It On."

Also, curious, what volume do people watch thier movies on? On my old Onkyo TX-DS555, I couldn't turn the volume knob up more than 1/4 of a turn. On my 809, I have to turn it up in the range of 55-60ish depending on the movie (but with dyn vol on, this is reduced by about 10 to the 45-40 range). In talking with a Crutchfield tech one time, I mentioned this and he said it's normal, that Onkyo just changed their volume levels years back. Just curious what others watch their movies on, BTW, this is with a blu ray player.

I spent A LOT of time calibrating my speakers / subwoofers this weekend, and had some MORE curiousitys. I used to run audyssey, then after that was done pull out the SPL meter and make sure they're set at 75 db each (usually they were close). This time, I ran Audyssey and the levels it put my speakers at were far lower than 75. My fronts Aud set at -5 & -6 and my center at -7 (this was about 4db off from 75 db w/ the sound meter). So, I adjusted levels to 75db. During the Matrix, I felt some scenes felt off some, so I put levels back to where audyssey had them (off the 75 db mark for each speaker) and it sounded better. Thnk I am going to leave them where Audyssey set them.

Do others here adjust their audyssey levels w/ an SPL, or do you just accept where Audyssey sets them at regardless of what an SPL meter set them at.

I prefer Dynamic Volume OFF. I did try it, but having read what it attempts to do, I think it is a change from the original sound track intention (creation of mood, and impact etc) so leave it off.

For movies, I listen at 50-60 if people are in bed. I still get a sub woofer sound from the ceiling, but Audyssey can't deal with this. :-)

65-75 Is my preferred.

For tv, typically I turn it up until I get told to turn it down. 55-60

I never bother with SPL whenever I run Audyssey now, only checked it once, and it was spot on.
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post #3116 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by HDextreme View Post

Anyone looking for the 809 Cheap keep checking with Abt. Sorry but I must have ordered one of the last ones yesterday but $662 after 5% saving when you sign up for their newsletter/email (coupon code they send you after you sign up).

Great price at an awesome dealer and picked up a 3 year warranty for $80 more

Great deal! Thanks for the post, went online to do it but promo code gave me problems called in to the 800 # and they over rode to $662. Got one coming.

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post #3117 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by reggie55 View Post

So when Zone 2 is "OFF", you have 7.1 and when you turn Zone 2 "ON" (with your remote), you have 5.1 (the rear surrounds are off). I just never realized that it effects my Audussey settings, although if it retains the distance settings, that's probably the most critical one in my setup.

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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Keep in mind that the distance, crossover, and speaker level settings that the Onkyo sets are separate from the Audyssey filtering process which is why you can manually change those settings without affecting the Audyssey filters.

If Audyssey is setting other "hidden" things than the Levels, Distance, crossover, etc., I can't say if they are removed or not when you toggle Zone 2 power on/off - there is no way to check that, really.
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post #3118 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 06:21 PM
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Question on outputting audio through hdmi on the sub output. Ideally I want audio through the avr's speakers for the main hdmi and audio through the tv's speakers for the sub hdmi output. On page 61 column 1 of the manual it doesn't even sound like English, any help would be greatly appreciated.
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post #3119 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by razrsharp View Post

Yes I realize this, but it had been thought that I can "toggle" between going from 7.1 to 5.1 + 2.0 by changing the speaker settings. What I was reporting back is that the Audyssey settings are undone when you do this, for the surround speakers.

If Audyssey setup hadn't been responsible for assigning speaker posts and it was more manual as it used to be in older amps, what I've been trying to do was likely plausible.

Just trying to provide the full info to those who are looking for a similar setup, as info was scarce when I was looking.

this is exactly my misunderstanding... so the verdict is that we cannot toggle between powered 7.1 to powered 5.1 + powered 2.0?? thats a shame.
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post #3120 of 6022 Old 01-30-2012, 09:09 PM
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Is there a big performance/features differences between the Onkyo 809 vs the Denon 4311ci. The 4311ci is about $750 more than the 809. Is the price premium worth it?

Thanks in advance.
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